Author Topic: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread  (Read 56042 times)

Offline bhu

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Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« on: March 21, 2015, 07:30:54 PM »
I need to get off my butt and revise the CB for doing that darn pdf I keep mentioning.  To that end I will be focusing on batches of the PrC's one at a time, beginning with full arcane casters.  Initially I will simply be modifying them to be compliant with the redesign of the core class, and filling in stuff I've forgotten to do over time.  In the mean time, I am hoping those among you who are fans of the class or who are skilled in game design will point out flaws I may be too close to that have escaped my notice.

Bakeneko http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1273#msg1273

Breathsucker http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1241#msg1241

Burger Chef http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1289#msg1289

Catnipper http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1244#msg1244

Cats from Saturn http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1245#msg1245

Catwitch http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg206787#msg206787

Familiar http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1265#msg1265

Feral http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1251#msg1251

Good Kitty http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1253#msg1253

Mortician http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1257#msg1257

Thundercat http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=156.msg1278#msg1278

Offline Chemus

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2015, 05:44:48 AM »
First, when balancing all the casting bumper PrC's, recall that the character loses 1 (or more) level(s) off the top by being a cat burglar. I forget if you've added feats that bump max spell level (unlike practiced spellcaster); if so, that reduces the potential cost of these PrC's entry. Thundercats, for example, can't get 9ths pre-epic w/o a fixit feat. Is that intentional?

Some of the thundercat's low level options are lackluster; spend power to defend against deafened, dazzled or dazed effects for a few rounds, or debuff my enemies for no additional cost? No contest. Also, please don't destroy treasure (footwear) as part of a class's abilities; that's what sunder is for.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2015, 07:13:10 PM »
That bit came from actual real life lightning strikes, they have a reported tendencies of blowing up peoples shoes.  i shall think of a fix.

Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2015, 02:11:21 AM »
Re Bakeneko: anyone have a problem with it casting Nightmare 3/day as a Su or should I make it an Sp?

Offline Chemus

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2015, 03:00:26 AM »
For any spell that has SR: yes, Su is a boost to targetability, as Su's ignore SR. I realize that SLA's are noticeable, interrupt-able actions, but if it is a spell, and it's being cast, it should-oughtta be an SLA, IMO.

That said, Nightmare is a DM spell to fuck over casters; it's not that good from the PC side, so activating as Su is not unbalanced. Hell, unless you're running a battle of attrition, the target is likely to have its spells from the previous day still memorized, anyway.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2015, 02:56:31 AM »
Epic Feats for the burger chef are now done

Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2015, 02:54:27 AM »
Is Power Investiture on the Catwitch clear as written or should i tweak it a lil?

Same goes for Familiar Spell Reversal under the Familiar. 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2015, 02:56:58 AM by bhu »

Offline Chemus

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2015, 04:32:08 AM »
(click to show/hide)

Fixed a minor grammar error.

As there are no GP or XP expenditures, and the crafting of a potion or scroll includes material and XP costs of the spell, this becomes a way to cast otherwise expensive spells for free. Wish/Miracle and True Resurrection come to mind.


Quote
'Items whose effects are not instantaneous have a duration of 1 encounter, then they are mundane items again.  If their power is not used within 24 hours of creation it reverts to a normal item.'
This line is confusing; what is the intent? Does a magic sword last 1 encounter, or 24 hours? How about an unused potion? Does the line instead refer to a maximum duration for the effect of an item if used?

Additionally, are the scrolls usable by Arcane/Divine casters as normal, or must they be UMD'd? Can you make a scroll with multiple spells on it as part of the crafting action?

(click to show/hide)
Familiar Pocket targets a container or garment, not a familiar. Consider wording it so: "You may cast any spell with a target of 'your familiar' or 'familiar touched' on yourself instead. Additionally, you may choose for any reference to a familiar in the description of a spell to instead refer to you. For example, if you cast familiar pocket, you may enter the extradimensional space in the garment or container as long as you're Tiny or smaller, even commanding yourself inside as a free action."

The share spells ability of a familiar already allows spells with a target of "you" as touch range spells on your familiar, so the second line should be redundant.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2015, 03:13:40 AM »
Okay how does the revised catwitch text look?

Also I am considering changing the Feral to a 20 level class like savage feral that allows you to switch out levels of Cat Burglar for Feral levels.  I think it would work much better.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 03:25:58 AM by bhu »

Offline Chemus

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2015, 04:21:41 AM »
It's better, I now see the intent as: imbued items hold a charge for 24h, or until used, then they last for the encounter. However, the line
Quote
By making the item, you give up the ability to cast the spell(s) required to make it until the item is used (in the case of one use items like Potions and Scrolls), or until the 24 hour time limit is up (in the case of other items.)
suggests that anything not 1-shot lasts 24h, rather than 1 encounter. Also, what constitutes 'activating' a shield or armor? And what about those scrolls or rings of wish, Manuals and Tomes? The effects are instant, costs nil.
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Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 12:27:00 AM »
Re Bakeneko: anyone have a problem with it casting Nightmare 3/day as a Su or should I make it an Sp?
Keep it the way that it is.  Currently reviewing the rest of the classes.
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Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 12:43:22 AM »
I love the Burger Chef!  I have an idea though.
Quote
Freak Burgers (Su): 3 times per day you can expend one use of your Fryin' Pool to apply any three Recipes to one Cheezburger simultaneously.  For example you could make a Giant, Luther, Garden Burger.
Quote
EPIC BURGER CHEF

Hit Die: d4
Skills Points at Each  Level : 6 + int
Spells The Burger Chef caster level continues to increase but he does not gain extra spells per day or learn new spells.
Fryin' Pool You continue to get daily uses of your Fryin' Pool with Epic Levels.
Bonus Feats: The Epic Burger Chef gains a Bonus Feat every 3 levels higher than 20th
Why not, for epic levels, also increasing either the number of times you can use it or adding an additional recipe?  It'd most likely be every 10 levels, but if you got someone dedicated to making a Burger Chef THAT high level, they should at least get a little extra options.  I mean I already have an idea for a epic level Ninja/Burger Chef who will be owner of the franchise called Ninja Burger (go figure).

Edit: ...and now I'm hungry again.
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Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 01:37:14 AM »
Quote
Just A Kitty (Su): You gain Spell Resistance equal to 5 plus your character level.  At 1st level this applies to all Divination spells.

At 4th level your Spell Resistance applies to all Enchantment (Charm and Compulsion) spells.

At 7th level it applies to all Illusion (Glamer and Pattern) spells.

At 10th level it applies to all Enchantment and Illusion spells.
So each level you gain Just A Kitty, you gain an additional 5 SR?
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Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2015, 01:48:04 AM »
I have looked them all over and here's my opinion:
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Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2015, 02:42:54 AM »

Why not, for epic levels, also increasing either the number of times you can use it or adding an additional recipe?  It'd most likely be every 10 levels, but if you got someone dedicated to making a Burger Chef THAT high level, they should at least get a little extra options.  I mean I already have an idea for a epic level Ninja/Burger Chef who will be owner of the franchise called Ninja Burger (go figure).

Edit: ...and now I'm hungry again.

I was runnin' dry for recipe  names as it was  :p

I do have some epic feats for the Chec in the main thread,  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1037.msg7161#msg7161

look for pink slime, epic burger, and mcdonalds guaranteed freshness

Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2015, 02:43:48 AM »
Quote
Just A Kitty (Su): You gain Spell Resistance equal to 5 plus your character level.  At 1st level this applies to all Divination spells.

At 4th level your Spell Resistance applies to all Enchantment (Charm and Compulsion) spells.

At 7th level it applies to all Illusion (Glamer and Pattern) spells.

At 10th level it applies to all Enchantment and Illusion spells.
So each level you gain Just A Kitty, you gain an additional 5 SR?


Nope, your SR is 5+ECL, its just that it applies to more things with each level

Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2015, 03:34:38 AM »
It's better, I now see the intent as: imbued items hold a charge for 24h, or until used, then they last for the encounter. However, the line
Quote
By making the item, you give up the ability to cast the spell(s) required to make it until the item is used (in the case of one use items like Potions and Scrolls), or until the 24 hour time limit is up (in the case of other items.)
suggests that anything not 1-shot lasts 24h, rather than 1 encounter. Also, what constitutes 'activating' a shield or armor? And what about those scrolls or rings of wish, Manuals and Tomes? The effects are instant, costs nil.

I have expanded and revised the text of the ability again.  This time it should be ok.

Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2015, 11:07:59 PM »

Why not, for epic levels, also increasing either the number of times you can use it or adding an additional recipe?  It'd most likely be every 10 levels, but if you got someone dedicated to making a Burger Chef THAT high level, they should at least get a little extra options.  I mean I already have an idea for a epic level Ninja/Burger Chef who will be owner of the franchise called Ninja Burger (go figure).

Edit: ...and now I'm hungry again.
I was runnin' dry for recipe  names as it was  :p

I do have some epic feats for the Chec in the main thread,  http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1037.msg7161#msg7161

look for pink slime, epic burger, and mcdonalds guaranteed freshness
http://www.gone-ta-pott.com/types_of_hamburgers.htmlList 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hamburgers List 2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-2968211/The-world-s-FLAMING-burger-six-types-chilli-smothered-hot-sauce-set-FIRE-table-sign-waiver-eat-it.html Hellfire Burger (probably would do acid damage)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-goldwyn/hamburger-types-a-taxonom_b_583903.html List 3
I hope you can see how serious I am about this.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 11:25:28 PM by Psysama »
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Offline bhu

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2015, 02:44:41 AM »
How about I change it to they get one recipe per Burger Chef Level, and make a list of recipes.   :sofa

Offline Psysama

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Re: Cat Burglar DIscussion Thread
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2015, 03:09:19 AM »
 :clap  I like that, It's sounds great!
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