Author Topic: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict  (Read 21270 times)

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #60 on: August 11, 2015, 04:01:45 PM »
Alright, I've got a question for you people who know 5E.  As I do, I made a character sheet.

Does this look good or should something be adjusted?

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #61 on: August 11, 2015, 06:13:07 PM »
At first glance,  it looks good,  although I don't see a spot for initiative. Skills and proficiencis could probably be rolled into one category (Skill & Other Proficiencies, for instance, since most characters will have proficiency with maybe one or two sets of tools, musical instruments, or gaming sets), but it's not necessary. Otherwise, looks good!

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #62 on: August 11, 2015, 07:44:02 PM »
At first glance,  it looks good,  although I don't see a spot for initiative. Skills and proficiencis could probably be rolled into one category (Skill & Other Proficiencies, for instance, since most characters will have proficiency with maybe one or two sets of tools, musical instruments, or gaming sets), but it's not necessary. Otherwise, looks good!

Is there a time that Initiative is more than just a dex check (like it getting it's own bonuses or anything like that)? 

Also, respond to the PM I sent you.   :P


Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #63 on: August 11, 2015, 08:21:06 PM »
Yes. If you take the Alert feat, you get a +5 to Initiative. Certain magic items have added traits and minor properties, like the Guardian property, which adds +2 to initiative.

In general terms, it's not required. Someone with extra features related to Initiative could always add it in themselves. Still, the same could be said for anyone in 3.5, 4E, etc.


Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #64 on: August 11, 2015, 08:42:27 PM »
Ahh, I missed that feat.  There is now an Initiative line.

The whole point of all the stuff on the sheet is so that I don't have to remember to do things myself.   :p

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #65 on: August 11, 2015, 09:04:09 PM »
Pending final approval on a couple of things I'm going to be a Dwarf Ranger.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2015, 12:45:40 AM »
First Pass on a Character Sheet. Kind of using a bit of homebrew here so take a look, specially if you haven't read the Reddit thread before.

(click to show/hide)
Takwin Homunculi
Artificer 5
Medium fireforged, Chaotic Good
--------------------------------------------------
Armor Class: 11 + armor
Hit Points: 5d8+10 ( HP)
Speed: 30ft.
Attack: Heavy Crossbow +6 ranged (1d10+3) & Runearm +6 (2d4 force damage) 12.5 avg per rnd
--------------------------------------------------
Ability Scores (PB30): Str 10 (+0), Dex 16 (+3), Con 16 (+3), Int 16 (+3), Wis 8 (-1), Cha 8 (-1).
--------------------------------------------------
Proficiencies (+3): Intelligence Save (+7), Dexterity Save (+3), Simple Weapons, Crossbows, Light & Medium Armor.
Background: Guild Artisan.
Skills: Arcana, Insight, Investigation, Persuasion.
Tools: Thieves’ Tools, alchemist's Tools, Tinkerer's Tools.
Feats: Crossbow Expert (ignore loading, no disadvantage for 5ft, the bonus fire thing should do something, hmm...)
Languages: Common, Dwarvish, Elvish.
--------------------------------------------------
Living Construct: Immunity to Disease, does not need Sleep/Food/Drink.
Composite Plating: +1 to AC.
Darkvision: Darkvision 60ft.
Spellcasting: Int-based, known4, charges 5, +ritual, focus runearm.
Construct Essence: can be healed by repair spells.
Runearm: action(acidsplash/eb/firebolt/rayofforst/shockinggrasp) or bonus (60ft 2d4).
Salvage: see crafting rules?
--------------------------------------------------
Equipment: A set of artisan’s tools (one o f your choice), a letter of introduction from your guild, a set of traveler’s clothes, and a belt pouch containing 15 gp.
--------------------------------------------------
Trait: To tinker.
Ideal: To understand how things work.
Bond: I owe everything to my mentor—a horrible person who’s probably rotting in jail somewhere.
Flaw: I can’t resist swindling people who are more powerful than me.
--------------------------------------------------
(click to show/hide)



(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:23:56 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2015, 01:27:21 AM »
SorO: There's a lot to go over, and I"m going to have to cover that mostly tomorrow after work.

A couple things on a quick glance. I have no idea what an 'Elementalforged' is supposed to be (aside from being influenced clearly by warforged). I've never seen the reddit thread for homebrewing races, and will need to look it over. One thing that jumps out at me is you have Superior Darkvision, but you need to have Darkvision first otherwise the superior version won't do anything (it only increases 'your darkvision' to 120 feet. If you don't have darkvision, there's nothing to extend. So, darkvision +0.5 pts, superior darkvision +0.5 pts, total +1 pt for superior. Otherwise no race would have regular 60-feet range darkvision). Still, I'm not fully on-board with this homebrew race, either, in the context of the game world. I can see how it might fit, but it would take some configuring and it might be more of a pain than is worthwhile.

Anyway, I need sleep now before I can really analyze this.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2015, 12:38:29 PM »
SorO: There's a lot to go over, and I"m going to have to cover that mostly tomorrow after work.
There is, also bumped darkvision to 60ft, it was close midnight when I did this thing.

Anyway, basically the Reddit thread tried to assign point values and reverse engineer the Races to give you a guide on creating new. For said Race it has two parts, the first is robotic (darkvision, metal skin, different biology) but the default WF race is kind of weak and I wanted a tinkering deal too. The idea of +int & reshapable body sounded awesome until I glanced through your PDF. With the wildfire threatening to consume all and Illyn already carry a genetic key to elemental adaptation. So elemental based it is. Point wise I was still pretty low so TOEE's cantrips won out over Prestidigitation and then I was still low on points so I poked around and liked the Elemental Adapt Feat and just grabbed that. Not really attached, but mechanically it'll help a bit.

Which leads to the other thing, it actually deals less damage than other examples. Sorcerer would be dealing 2d10+(4~5) so up to 16, Warlock would be 2d10+(8~10) or up to 21. As I've previously brought up for establishing par, just about all the mundanes deal 20+ damage per round. But it is first pass so the 12.5 can always grow some.


Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2015, 01:20:16 AM »
After consideration, I'm going to disallow the feat selection on the homebrew race. While I'm not shy regarding homebrew, the Elemental Adept feat already exists with completely different features. The addition of a feat, I think, is probably worth the upper end of the scale that person is using (2-4), as evidenced by it being almost the only notable feature variant humans get. Adding feats to other races also sort of makes Humans less special, and they are by far the most numerous race in Karthun. I also think that all races in 5e should grant some bonus to ability scores, setting them apart in ability from other races in comparison.

While it certainly could work as an invention of the gnomes or Sunwalker dwarves, the overall flavor implies an attempt to bind an elemental spirit to a construct as opposed to a humanoid creature.

I would suggest the following racial traits:

Elementalforged (or Gearbound, depending on the race creating the specific instance)
Ability score increase: Your Constitution increases by 2, and your Intelligence increases by 1. (3 pts)
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet.
Darkvision (0.5 pts)
Living Construct: Even though you were constructed, you are a living creature. You are immune to disease. You do not need to eat or breathe, but you can ingest food and drink if you wish. Instead of sleeping, you enter an inactive state for 4 hours each day. You do not dream in this state; you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.(1 pt)
Composite Plating: Your construction incorporates wood, metal, and stone, granting you a +1 bonus to Armor Class. (0.5 pts)
Elemental Source: You are a creature born of the binding of an elemental spirit to an inanimate automaton. Choose one type of elemental from the following options. Your innate magic is determined by the elemental type you choose.
Innate Magic: You know one cantrip, as determined by your elemental source. Once you reach 3rd level, you can cast the spell indicated once per day as a 2nd level spell. (1 pt)
  • Element: Cantrip | Spell
  • Fire: Control Flames | Burning Hands
  • Air: Gust | Levitate
  • Earth: Mold Earth | Earth Tremor
  • Water: Shape Water | Create or Destroy Water

This results in a 6-point race combining some of the warforged flavor and racial traits, while boosting them with some Magebound flavor and related magic. I tried giving them energy resistance instead of natural armor, but there's nothing relevant for Earth. I'm not too worried, since Artificers (or Magebound, should the Elementalforged pursue a Mage class) would eventually get pretty easy access to energy resistance. If I were posting this race elsewhere, I'd probably give it a +1 to Charisma rather than to Intelligence due to the connection to elementals, and the relation between sorcerer-based casting to Charisma, but I also understand the point is to have a race more suited for your character concept. This worked out well enough.


As for the class, no free action class features. There aren't really any free action abilities anywhere else except where an ability allows you to perform two actions as part of the same action taken. There are actions, bonus actions, and reactions.

As such, the rune arm charging up could result in an attack made as a bonus action or as an action (or possibly a reaction, though that could get annoying if it gets used during other people's turns too often).

I've done a lot of tweaking to my version of the DDO-inspired Artificer, but my handling of the Rune Arm is mostly unchanged:
(click to show/hide)

The damage for my version of the class hits an average of ~16 like the Sorcerer you mentioned (2d10+2d4) though weapon damage lags behind slightly (1d10+2~5 +2d4, or 12.5~15.5 depending on stat allocation) until the Battle Engineer gets Extra Attack. At 20th level, it hits at about the average you mentioned for par (2d10+10+3d4+4d10, ~50.5; assumes Crossbow Expert feat or a new infusion based on the Endless Fusilade Battle Engineer enhancement). The downside is I created a completely untested spellcasting variant with no way to tell how it would work in practice, and with two very different methodologies for approximating spellcasting power.

My Battle engineer has much more limited infusing but can build up its ability to cast infusions by making weapon attacks. My Arcanotechnician has way more infusing capability, eventually having a spellcasting capability closer to the Sorcerer or Wizard (from a certain point of view). It might just be too convoluted to be worthwhile.

Other than the spellcasting, I tried to fit in as much of the abilities you were looking for as I could, while also trying to impart it with a bit of crafting-focused utility/interaction class features rather than just combat-oriented abilities. All 5e classes are meant to include some passive benefits and other other features to support the interaction and exploration pillars of gameplay, so I needed to do my best to include that as well. --edit-- Also, I am missing features in the last couple levels, but otheriwse...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 02:01:25 AM by VennDygrem »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2015, 12:33:26 PM »
Incorporated most into the sheet already. But....

Crossbow is still lacking, tertiary stat (insightful strikes helps), deals less than other choices, Crossbow Expert is devalued, etc. The Free Action that you dislike was placeholder terminology, the intention was firing the runearm at less damage as part of the attack pattern bringing up it's mundane side, and now you can't. I'm also not seeing the figures?
Action 1d10 (crossbow) + 4 (training*2) +2d4 (infusion*2) * 2 (extra attack) : Bonus 4d4 (runearm) = 39.
It appears you expect those Charge points to be used every single round.

And you curbstomped casting, Arcano looks cool but since you basically get 4 Spells a day there is no point in ever using it. Even the Warlock gets up to 8 At-Will Invocations on top of his 4 Spells (and four cantrips instead of 1 changeable one).

It's a working progress through, but it's a good sign. You're concerned about balance so much your homebrew is weaker than what's rpinted.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 12:58:31 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2015, 02:56:24 PM »
For the Arcanotechnician, 32 charge points / 4 points per 5th level infusion (discounted thru level 15 class feature) is 8 infusions at highest level, not 4. The Battle engineer would only get 4 by default (only 20 charge points), but their battlefield innovation lets them add charges which can really start stacking considerably the longer battle goes, and so they should be able to cast at least as much throughout the day. Originally I had the battle engineer gaining 1/2 their proficiency bonus in charges once per round, but the change I made seemed more consistent with their in-the-thick-of-battle orientation. A change can be made if it doesn't work, but at 6th level that's 2 charges per round, up to 4 if they make an opportunity attack or 4 with haste.

As for damage, the battle engineer should be able to get their dex up to 4-5 modifier by 20th level (either by focusing on Dex as a secondary stat, which they should anyway for their crossbow fighting and as indicated by training in dexterity saving throw, or by crafting one of the magic items that sets Dex at 19, or an ioun stone, manual of dexterity, etc). The 15th level Battle Engineer ability lets them cast their full charge rune arm can trip as a bonus action instead of the normal half charge (so 4d10 instead of 4d4). So, tthat makes 1d10+(4~5 dex)+3d4 (augment x3 at 18th level) x2, +4d10 (bonus action cantrip). And that's  without any other infusions further enhancing damage.

It's still not perfect, and I'm willing to get some help fine tuning it. Please let me know how we can get this to where it should be for your character.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 02:58:04 PM by VennDygrem »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2015, 08:26:41 PM »
It's still not perfect, and I'm willing to get some help fine tuning it. Please let me know how we can get this to where it should be for your character.
Well, the Artificer on a mechanical standpoint is a gish-based class with an option to empathize Spells or Mundane over the other.

His spellcasting sided emphasis has 32 points, comparability the Paladin has 30 & Channel Divinity for his spellcasting. The Paladin also walks out with Extra Attack and up +1d8+7 on every attack without having to choose between his casting or his mundane. The arty's mundane sided emphasis on the other hand is built to assume he spends an Action + Casting & Casting Every. Single. Round to keep up with par, comparability said Paladin uses Spells to exceed par. Also, by punching him self in the face for 1 damage per round, the Engineer makes up his knee capping loss in combat by having infinite out-of-combat Spells which is a little bit of an over compensation.

But anyway, let's look at other gish types. Eldritch Knight gets even less casting than the Paladin, pretty much our Engineer analog, except he gets Extra Attack x3, 2 Action Surges per Encounter, lots of ABIs for even more enhancing Feats, and he already can combine a single weapon attack with a Cantrip. Hell it even learns 13 Spells plus 3 Cantrips vs the Arty's 12 & 1. And an Arcane Trickster goes the other way. Same casting, but less combat for more Adventure based abilities. Like the Fighter it also gets an accelerated ABI progression, it also gets a ton of Skill bonuses, double damage (and bonus damage) for winning Initiative.

The Artificer should land somewhere near those and Paladin in terms of power, coming off as more castery than both and certainly unique enough to validate using it over reflavoring the existing choices. As Tim Taylor would say, more power! And while I'm at work tomorrow I'll try to come up with another draft while we're just screwing around.

If you want to start the game, don't feel like you're hung up on me. I'll just use the Lost Lord until a decent Arty draft is made.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2015, 10:49:23 PM »
I think the main problem is I began with an existing chassis for a different artificer class and swapped things in and out. It really should have been built from the ground up.

I'll see about  coming up with other ideas to spruce it up as well. When homebrewing, I tend to write things as over-powered and have to scale back. As you mentioned, I was too concerned with keeping it balanced and didn't have a good rubric for making sure it wasn't under-powered.

I don't have a definite start date for the game, so helping on this isn't delaying anything. In the interest of full disclosure, I wouldn't expect the game to move incredibly fast. It is PbP, though furthermore I have limited ability to update during the day time on weekdays and so most of my updating will be done very early morning or at night.

Offline bhu

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2015, 02:35:05 AM »
So how/when do we stat out our personalized crits?

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #75 on: August 15, 2015, 09:24:52 AM »
I'll work with each of you personally to develop a critical maneuver that fits your characters. I'll need to know a bit more about each of them first, including their history in the world, to do so. Luckily, your character remains mostly unchanged in this game from the last one, so I've got more to work with already.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #76 on: August 15, 2015, 09:58:46 AM »
Just to say I'm bowing out from this, as I'm already in too much online stuff. Hope you guys have fun.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #77 on: August 15, 2015, 12:22:59 PM »
I understand. I'll certainly let you know if I launch another campaign where you can test your Tobhou material.

For everyone else, I'm going to be re-purposing the forum for an older, now-defunct game so we don't have to wait for one to be made. It didn't get far anyway, so it shouldn't be too cluttered.

If you want to start posting character sheets there, you may do so whenever you like.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #78 on: August 15, 2015, 12:46:10 PM »
I'm moving all of my work over there including discussion.

Also, you should add lizardfolk to the races post as we discussed.

Offline VennDygrem

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Re: [D&D] Interest check - Karthun, the Lands of Conflict
« Reply #79 on: August 15, 2015, 01:52:08 PM »
Also, you should add lizardfolk to the races post as we discussed.

Done.

Any other discussion can also be moved to the forum, if people wish.