Author Topic: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater  (Read 236764 times)

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #240 on: May 28, 2016, 03:18:03 PM »
Shadowrun Returns and Dragonfall are amazing, I love them (hopefully you will too).  I've wanted to play the online one but what you're describing is what I was afraid of so never bought it.

So I just finished Shadowrun Returns as a rigger. Fun game, but definitely not too challenging on the default mode. I was expecting something a little harder for the final battle. Installing Dragonfall now, so I'll probably start that sometime soon.

As a side note, played it on a Windows tablet and didn't have any problems at all. Steam version supports touch controls easily.

I played through Returns as a rigger. Found it a bit amusing that no one batted an eyelid at the janitor having grade A/S combat drones following him around when you disguised yourself to infiltrate a place.

Yeah, that one always got me. Do you not see the heavily armed flying machine hovering 5 feet behind me? Are you blind?

I ended up mostly not using the A class drone in the final mission, because I forgot to swap the special shotgun onto Coyote instead of my character, and I needed at least 2 AP to keep her firing and reloading. Should have replaced Coyote's ruger instead. Didn't really have much trouble with me, Coyote, Harlequin, and the Tir assassin.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #241 on: May 28, 2016, 05:45:35 PM »
Dragon Ball RPG for the 3DS
Now with 1000% more character fusions!
The five-way fusion is called "Maxi Fusion" and all I can think of is feminine healthcare products. >.>

I heard that the new Doom is actually a Doom game. Not some hide-and-heal health regen knockoff.
For me, the thing that made a Doom game a Doom game was the monster infighting.  When they went after each other, it was pure joy.
That's probably because you played Doom when it came out. But RD isn't talking about that, she is just jumping on the bandweagon and bitching about twenty year old game having it's gameplay modernized and how that must inherently mean it's a bad thing. I think it's a millennial thing.

Yeah, that one always got me. Do you not see the heavily armed flying machine hovering 5 feet behind me? Are you blind?
In Dragonfall if you drain someone's AP they fall asleep and as a minor display bug if there is a story deal after the feat the "sleeping" NPC will walk and talk with the overheard snoring emote.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #242 on: May 28, 2016, 06:48:32 PM »
I heard that the new Doom is actually a Doom game. Not some hide-and-heal health regen knockoff.
For me, the thing that made a Doom game a Doom game was the monster infighting.  When they went after each other, it was pure joy.
That's probably because you played Doom when it came out. But RD isn't talking about that, she is just jumping on the bandweagon and bitching about twenty year old game having it's gameplay modernized and how that must inherently mean it's a bad thing. I think it's a millennial thing.

No, it's the fact that old-Doom seems a lot more gung-ho and nigh suicidal than more recent shooters. Circle strafe everything.

But no, clearly I'm talking about updating the game and not the fact that after Doom III's abysmally dull survival horror, or Quake IV being a standard shooter, there was little reason to expect that a new Doom game would not go for a fucking follow the leader format rather than the twitch, overly aggressive original.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #243 on: May 28, 2016, 07:33:17 PM »
No, it's the fact that old-Doom seems a lot more gung-ho and nigh suicidal than more recent shooters. Circle strafe everything.
Pretty much all the old shooters were because that's how they were designed.

Like closer to your era would have been Goldeneye I suppose, you would have been two when it came out. In the game's mechanics even on hard mode the NPCs only hit you like 15% of the time, had a reaction time of "shit", and could get stuck in rolling animations. Blitzing the game simply meant you took less damage than generally any other method.

Somewhere in the Xbox/PS2 era they could finally code bullets instead of using line-of-sight lasers. You could now fire a projectile that over a length of time transverse the map and check for hits in real time. Dodging and blocking enemy fire became a new mechanic and the new standard, blitzing was no longer possible simply because the devas moved away from enormous miss chances to embracing the idea you'd use cover to negate the shots and so the enemies simply became deadlier.

The trend continued which was bad for gaming as everyone wanted instant replay when they died anyway and a solution was offered: regenerative health. You could have moments of brief off the wall chaos an ever quick runs of blitzing then simply duck behind something and your health would recover. Mechanically it's a win/win compromise. However, this was also the era of FPS elitists that felt their form of Nintendo hard must be respected, regeneration was an easy button that allowed less adjudicated fans to win as FPSers and holy fuck your bullshit of a skill set must be respected (see also people still playing brawl).

Fast foreword a few more years and you have people like you that consider twenty year old game play is innovatory new and Doom should lead the market by refusing to update it's self and that's just retarded. The FPS system made a step foreword with Mass Effect, offering quickly deteriorating regenerative shields and a longer lasting HP bar that you could only recover with items. Innovation would be to improve on that, to lead the FPS genera would be to come up with a new idea to revolutionize gameplay, not wish for a time machine to travel backwards in like some pathetic copycat. But I digress...

The main point comes back to stagnation. You are sick of Call of Duty after Call of Duty and want something different, but your solution is simply more stagnation, let's halt the innovative process and roll things back so we can have repeat after repeat of something as stupid as no regenerating health because the best solution to repeating the old is apparently: repeating the old.  :rolleyes
« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 07:43:46 PM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #244 on: May 28, 2016, 09:15:57 PM »
Except, SorO, that Doom did innovate, in a different direction.  Instead of regenerating health, you instead have glory kills which guarantee the enemy drops health for you.  Cover is used only to keep you safe as you close distance or to keep you from being overwhelmed, not to hide and heal.  You don't need to scour the map for ammo, you just need to chainsaw kill an enemy every now and again to make him explode ammo drops everywhere for you.  Weapons upgrade and do so in drastically powerful ways instead of piddly little +2% damage boosts.  It's innovating the gung-ho charge in and slaughter style of gameplay, which is what is so sorely lacking in the modern FPS genre.
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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #245 on: May 28, 2016, 11:06:51 PM »
No, it's the fact that old-Doom seems a lot more gung-ho and nigh suicidal than more recent shooters. Circle strafe everything.
Pretty much all the old shooters were because that's how they were designed.

Like closer to your era would have been Goldeneye I suppose, you would have been two when it came out. In the game's mechanics even on hard mode the NPCs only hit you like 15% of the time, had a reaction time of "shit", and could get stuck in rolling animations. Blitzing the game simply meant you took less damage than generally any other method.

Somewhere in the Xbox/PS2 era they could finally code bullets instead of using line-of-sight lasers. You could now fire a projectile that over a length of time transverse the map and check for hits in real time. Dodging and blocking enemy fire became a new mechanic and the new standard, blitzing was no longer possible simply because the devas moved away from enormous miss chances to embracing the idea you'd use cover to negate the shots and so the enemies simply became deadlier.
Did you ever actually played Goldeneye? Because I'm old enough to have played it when it came out on my country, and there were already projectile physics.

Heck, when the enemy shot a rocket/grenade at you, you could make it explode in mid-air if you had good enough aim!

And at higher difficulties enemy aim went way up and you needed to duck behind cover and/or keep moving. Just rushing ahead in 00 mode would get you a game over screen much faster than any call of duty ever did.

The main point comes back to stagnation. You are sick of Call of Duty after Call of Duty and want something different, but your solution is simply more stagnation, let's halt the innovative process and roll things back so we can have repeat after repeat of something as stupid as no regenerating health because the best solution to repeating the old is apparently: repeating the old.  :rolleyes
Non-regenerating health Dark Souls says hi.

Offline Kethrian

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #246 on: May 29, 2016, 08:06:35 AM »
Non-regenerating health Dark Souls says hi.

Dark Souls isn't an FPS, has an inventory and portable healing items, and is entirely missing guns (or in the case of Bloodborne, a focus on guns as actual weaponry instead of just a parry mechanic).
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Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #247 on: May 29, 2016, 10:27:18 AM »
Except, SorO, that Doom did innovate, in a different direction.
That's nice, but it's RD bitching that Doom was copypasta and her reasoning is regenerating health. In other words, those innovations were entirely ignored, which just further explains how pointless bitching about HP regen or not is.

Did you ever actually played Goldeneye? Because I'm old enough to have played it when it came out on my country, and there were already projectile physics.
The grenades & mines were but every single bullet (and laser & fist) used a hit scan. The red streaks you seen were just added effects. Hell, even in the updated engine, Perfect Dark, the crossbow bolts were nothing more than lasers teleporting to their target. Do ucodebro?

Dark Souls isn't an FPS, has an inventory and portable healing items, and is entirely missing guns (or in the case of Bloodborne, a focus on guns as actual weaponry instead of just a parry mechanic).
Pretty much that. If we wanted to find a no-regen game of any genre I'd just open Steam and pull a couple hundred examples that are currently on sale. Like heck GMod doesn't have regenerating health either, but I have Doom3 & Halos weapons in it :P
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 10:34:21 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #248 on: May 29, 2016, 11:34:55 AM »
Soro, your strawman is showing. You've done a wonderful job of constructing an argument against something I never proposed. There are two things I was interested in: a game that promotes being very aggressive, and getting shot being important because it won't just regen thirty seconds down the line. 

Also, you can stop acting like I must have never played the game because of age. <_<

Quote
Did you ever actually played Goldeneye? Because I'm old enough to have played it when it came out on my country, and there were already projectile physics.

I'm looking at Doom's weapons, and I'm pretty certain the rocket, plasma gun, and initial projectile of the BFG are all non-hitscan.

« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:37:47 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #249 on: May 29, 2016, 03:04:53 PM »
Soro, your strawman is showing.
Not really, yours is. I personally cannot fathom how regenerating hit points really has anything to do with calling a game innovative or not which is my point.

I'm looking at Doom's weapons, and I'm pretty certain the rocket, plasma gun, and initial projectile of the BFG are all non-hitscan.
Most rocket type weapons are projectiles, but yeah I think the main shot on the BFG was calculated out like the plasmagun, it's explosion was hitscan with a very wide damage variable. And actually, the plasma gun does serve as a great example of the difference in mechanics.

Some games tend to mix and match and it can be irritating. Like you may have played the first Halo, all human guns were instantaneous but Covenant weapons had delays. As a result you need to line your cross hairs up with one set and lead a moving target with another. I think Max Payne holds a record as being the first all-projectile game.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #250 on: May 29, 2016, 03:50:32 PM »
Soro, your strawman is showing.
Not really, yours is. I personally cannot fathom how regenerating hit points really has anything to do with calling a game innovative or not which is my point.

What the hell does innovation have with my point? If it's a Doom game building on the feel of the original, and working out how to encourage that, then I'm more likely to actually get it. After the survival horror Doom III and Quake IV being just another shooter of the time, I wasn't exactly expecting to get something that goes back to Doom's necessary aggression. Where the regenerating health would get in the way because of encouraging going back to hiding.

Quote
I'm looking at Doom's weapons, and I'm pretty certain the rocket, plasma gun, and initial projectile of the BFG are all non-hitscan.
Most rocket type weapons are projectiles, but yeah I think the main shot on the BFG was calculated out like the plasmagun, it's explosion was hitscan with a very wide damage variable. And actually, the plasma gun does serve as a great example of the difference in mechanics.

Some games tend to mix and match and it can be irritating. Like you may have played the first Halo, all human guns were instantaneous but Covenant weapons had delays. As a result you need to line your cross hairs up with one set and lead a moving target with another. I think Max Payne holds a record as being the first all-projectile game.

The BFG is weird as hell. It sends out a projectile with its own damage, then that explodes, which shoots out a ton of invisible hitscan rays at random points. It's how it kills you so easily.

And the rocket's explosion is amusing for being a cylinder with infinite height. :lmao
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 03:58:09 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline brujon

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #251 on: May 29, 2016, 04:16:23 PM »
The new Doom feels really new because it goes against everything FPS we've seen in the past 10+ years, but in reality, i really felt nostalgic while seeing it in action. It felt like Quake III Arena and Unreal Tournament in gameplay/execution. It really is a throwback to the age when shooters were just for fun and didn't really attempt at too much realism.

To me it's a "copypasta" in the way that it glued together what was best from Doom, Quake and Unreal, and then sprinkled in a bit of its own magic. The atmosphere is VERY Doom-like, but the frantic pace at which the action develops reminisces me of Unreal Tournament, while the level-design echoes a lot of Quake II/III for me. At the same time, it has upgradeable gear, a very modern mechanic, as well as enemies dropping weapons/health when killed in specific ways (Glory Kills and exploding enemies cause them to drop health, killing them with the chainsaw causes them to drop ammo).

Its focus is almost exclusively in the gameplay, so much so that it lampshades itself by having the protagonist cut off dialogue by punching monitors, and go explictly against the desires of the "quest-giver". There are very few moments with no player interaction, and they're brief enough, no 10+ minutes cutscenes as we've been seeing with recent games.

All in all, i think it's really innovative because it really manages to give a really TIGHT shooter experience, for people that liked shooters as they were way back in the day. It goes against the more recently established formula and shows that old-school shooters still have a place in this day and age, and that more modern graphics and 3D assets can enhance rather than detract from this experience. That's how it's innovative, not because it created something new, but because it revived something old in a new and improved way, when everyone thought that was never going to happen.
"All the pride and pleasure of the world, mirrored in the dull consciousness of a fool, are poor indeed compared with the imagination of Cervantes writing his Don Quixote in a miserable prison" - Schopenhauer, Aphorisms: The Wisdom of Life

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #252 on: May 31, 2016, 02:40:13 PM »
Now I just need a proper Team Fortress mod for Doom, not the no-grenade hats and crits bullshit that is TF2.

Granted I'm too old for my reflexes to be worth a damn in FPS anymore.

Offline littha

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #253 on: June 01, 2016, 06:50:56 AM »
Now I just need a proper Team Fortress mod for Doom, not the no-grenade hats and crits bullshit that is TF2.

Granted I'm too old for my reflexes to be worth a damn in FPS anymore.

Get overwatch. It really reminds me of pre hats TF2

Offline Nunkuruji

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #254 on: June 01, 2016, 03:18:05 PM »
Now I just need a proper Team Fortress mod for Doom, not the no-grenade hats and crits bullshit that is TF2.

Granted I'm too old for my reflexes to be worth a damn in FPS anymore.

Get overwatch. It really reminds me of pre hats TF2

Blizzard games always end up making me bitter. I'm done with them.

Offline littha

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #255 on: June 02, 2016, 03:19:22 AM »
Now I just need a proper Team Fortress mod for Doom, not the no-grenade hats and crits bullshit that is TF2.

Granted I'm too old for my reflexes to be worth a damn in FPS anymore.

Get overwatch. It really reminds me of pre hats TF2

Blizzard games always end up making me bitter. I'm done with them.

Really? Personally I have had pretty much nothing but good experiences out of Blizzard barring Diablo 3.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #256 on: June 02, 2016, 03:34:37 AM »
No, no, Overwatch will legit make you salty. You get some moments of course, but it's mostly salt. It's a game where every hero is literally a hard counter to EVERY OTHER HERO THAT EXISTS.

It's literally a game of rock paper scissors but every hand can beat every other hand simultaneously.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #257 on: June 02, 2016, 05:48:10 PM »
I was kinda hyped for Overwatch when it was first announced.

Then saw it's a MP-only game.
Costing as much as any other AAA title.
Nope.jpg

Hopefully it'll become F2P somewhere down the road, or at least get a significant price discount.

I still enjoy figuring out what kind of game Blizzard was planning with project Titan. All the lore from overwatch seems like they were gonna go for some low future sci-fi world with two factions. But then they went meh and just made a team FPS where they all just kill each other all day long for no discernible reason or purpose. Heroes!

Well, even in the promo videos, tracer will rather teleport away from the evil sniper than protect the robo diplomat.

Offline ketaro

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #258 on: June 02, 2016, 07:50:32 PM »
Nah triple a titles are sixty, overwatch was only forty. When I realized that like a day before launch, that became really why I bought it. I wouldn't pay full big name price for it, but forty was alright.

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Re: Videogame Discussion III - Snake Eater
« Reply #259 on: June 03, 2016, 01:02:45 PM »
Overview of running my first Path of Exile league:
2 goldrims. One Vaal-bricked tabula that I vendor'ed. Redblade Tramplers of Cadiro, making my facebreaker marauder happy.
A 8%/70% increased Rarity Andvarius from Cadiro during the last day of the league. A level 67 ice trapper and a 76 Sparker. Decent haul of currency. Level 1 MTX for those sweet golden footprint cosmetics.
All in all, I'm pretty pleased. Will probably try out Propechy league that starts tomorrow.