Author Topic: The Politics Thread v3  (Read 12582 times)

Offline SolEiji

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3006
  • I am 120% Eiji.
    • View Profile
    • D&D Wiki.org, not .com
Mudada.

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #61 on: May 06, 2016, 07:21:42 PM »
Just for the record, witnesses and victims in crimes give depositions....
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #62 on: May 09, 2016, 12:12:01 PM »
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline bhu

  • Uncle Kittie
  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 14264
  • Fnord bitches
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #63 on: May 10, 2016, 08:08:17 PM »
can someone once again explain wth is going on in brazil from the standpoint of a local?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7299
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2016, 06:52:21 PM »
Don't know the details, but the Brazil President is out today.
If I understand it right, she's suspended until an actual trial.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2016, 02:28:43 PM »
Don't know if anyone else noticed, but Nevada....kind of asploded....It's hard getting accurate news outlet's covering of what happened, considering that WaPo's article on what happened was pretty much the exact opposite of what happened, according to multiple eye witness accounts and video of the event. I don't put Salon up there with the most prestigious of news sources, but they have it pretty much right here, although not everything that happened was covered.

A quick recap: basically, the Nevada arm of the DNC voted behind closed doors to change the rules and passed it by themselves, ignoring the rules saying a vote at the convention needs to be held.  This rules change included ignoring the 2nd level of convention, which in Clark County flipped the votes for Bernie rather than Hillary.  So they retroactively took two delegates away from Bernie and gave them to Hillary.  Then they gave the chair of NV sole authority over the convention.  Then later on, at the convention, they took a vote before the convention started on how to allocate the delegates from the state level.  The chair later on called for a vote on the finalization of an inaccurate count.  Seconded it herself, passed it, asked for yays, ended the convention, and walked out.  This ignored the larger volume of 'nay' votes.
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline Keldar

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 914
  • What's this button do?
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2016, 04:12:23 AM »
You missed the part where they prevented 62 delegates from even entering the convention, and the follow up where they bullshitted that hotel security made them shut down abruptly over the raucous.   Overall, epic douchebaggery from the Dems.  They've been way better at cheating this primary than the Publicans.

Offline Agrippa

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 166
  • I'm not quite sure what to say.
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2016, 12:51:36 PM »
Don't know if anyone else noticed, but Nevada....kind of asploded....It's hard getting accurate news outlet's covering of what happened, considering that WaPo's article on what happened was pretty much the exact opposite of what happened, according to multiple eye witness accounts and video of the event. I don't put Salon up there with the most prestigious of news sources, but they have it pretty much right here, although not everything that happened was covered.

A quick recap: basically, the Nevada arm of the DNC voted behind closed doors to change the rules and passed it by themselves, ignoring the rules saying a vote at the convention needs to be held.  This rules change included ignoring the 2nd level of convention, which in Clark County flipped the votes for Bernie rather than Hillary.  So they retroactively took two delegates away from Bernie and gave them to Hillary.  Then they gave the chair of NV sole authority over the convention.  Then later on, at the convention, they took a vote before the convention started on how to allocate the delegates from the state level.  The chair later on called for a vote on the finalization of an inaccurate count.  Seconded it herself, passed it, asked for yays, ended the convention, and walked out.  This ignored the larger volume of 'nay' votes.

You missed the part where they prevented 62 delegates from even entering the convention, and the follow up where they bullshitted that hotel security made them shut down abruptly over the raucous.   Overall, epic douchebaggery from the Dems.  They've been way better at cheating this primary than the Publicans.

The DNC's excuse is that those 62 delegates hadn't registered for the Nevada Democratic convention, therefore weren't admissible. Fine then, but these delegates weren't told by the party they had to register first, they were supposed to call the Nevada Democratic party and ask if they had to register first. Of course it's natural not to think you'd have to register weeks in advance to take part in a convention you were elected to, so yeah, those delegates were and are screwed. Honestly people, this is making me consider not voting for president this year, because if Hillary Clinton wins this way I don't she deserves to be president. I don't want Trump in the White House either, but I can't bring myself to vote for a politician with no true ideas who's willing to look the other way while her party gives her the nomination dishonestly. Fuck the DNC, fuck the White House, fuck the Clinton campaign.

I have two songs picked out for the Democratic nomination, one for if Hillary wins and one for if she loses to Sanders. You can tell how I feel about her.

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2016, 01:08:25 PM »
There's Jill Stein running on the Green Party ticket*, who's basically Sanders but not as...Sanders?  She's Sanders lite.  If you're going to vote on principle rather than against someone, she's probably your best bet.  And please, PLEASE vote.  Even if it's not to a major party.  Because every vote counts, even if it's for a losing candidate.  This goes for all of you.  Because if enough people vote for a 3rd party, it still sends a message, AND you can still vote down ticket to vote in preferential candidates on the house and senate and still help keep the people you don't want in, out.  And more importantly, when some douchebag says "well why didn't you vote?"  You can honestly say "I did."  And you can even say you voted your conscience instead of for the lesser of two evils.

*I suppose you have Gary Johnson running too, if you like insane people.  For those who don't know, he's basically Ron Paul but....well, he's Ron Paul lite.  Just as crazy, but with less political influence.  He's...probably the most big R Republican in the race, Sanders and Stein are the only two true liberals in the race, Clinton is the most little r republican in the race, and Trump is...Trump.  He's more liberal than Clinton on a few things, and more conservative on a few things.
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline RedWarlock

  • Hero Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 617
  • Crimson-colored caster of calamity
    • View Profile
    • Red Blade Studios
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2016, 01:55:28 PM »
What gets me is the "if you're not with us, you're against us" BS of some people, who feel if you vote 3rd party and their preferred candidate (i.e. Hillary) doesn't win, you have in fact voted for the enemy (Trump), and obviously hate women, minorities, etc. That is such bullying BS that I don't know how to respond.
WarCraft post-d20: A new take on the World of WarCraft for tabletop. I need your eyes and comments!

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2016, 02:22:51 PM »
I totally understand it.  I wish it wasn't so, but that's how the human mind works, especially in this electoral environment.  The best thing you can do to combat it is just start changing the system.  It's slow, painful, and awkward, but it'll work eventually.  When we shift the paradigm from "only two parties ever" to "choose the best candidate" we'll be better off as a nation, as a people, as a world.

Also, of course, you could say "But I didn't want to vote for Trump, so why I vote for the candidate he's backed?" referring to how Trump supported both her and Bill earlier.
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline Libertad

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3489
    • View Profile
    • My Fantasy and Gaming Blog
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2016, 02:34:15 PM »
Fox News goes to bat for a banned Neo-Nazi subreddit, conveniently forgets to mention this important detail.

Back before it was quarantined, /r/european was a subreddit for Europeans and Muslim-hating Americans to convene for folk who found Europe too liberal. And by "too liberal," I mean "don't believe that Arab and Hispanic immigration is a result of Communist Jews who want to genocide white people via interracial marriage."

Also, questioning the Holocaust is allowed as 'healthy debate,' but posting evidence gets you downvoted.

Given how pro-Israel Fox is, and how they have a few Jewish correspondents like Jonah Goldberg, I can't see how they'd-

Nope, they did it. Well, at least they forgot to mention that /r/european's pro-white supremacy, but sneakily deflected it by saying "most political subreddits talk about Hitler at some point in time."

Whelp, when the current GOP base is a dying breed, you've got to appeal to the younger "alt-right" crowd. Even if said crowd would give Bill O'Reilly a heart attack if he knew what they were really up to.

Offline Nanshork

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 11120
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2016, 03:02:12 PM »
Please remember, if a third party gets enough of the vote (I don't remember the percentage) then they will become an officially recognized third party and get all kinds of benefits instead of just being a fringe group.

THAT is the reason to vote third party (because the way things are right now third party can't win a presidential election, as a third party person I recognize this).

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7299
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2016, 06:38:28 PM »
Bernie is technically still officially 3rd party (-ish)
but who knows what backroom deal was made,
to allow him on the Dem Ballot.

Libertarians got ballot access in 45 states for the '08 Prez election.

3rd party swung the notorious Florida election for Prez '00.
Poor Al Gore, not enough stones to see it all the way through.
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline Unbeliever

  • Legendary Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2288
  • gentleman gamer
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2016, 11:32:45 AM »
I totally understand it.  I wish it wasn't so, but that's how the human mind works, especially in this electoral environment.  The best thing you can do to combat it is just start changing the system.  It's slow, painful, and awkward, but it'll work eventually.  When we shift the paradigm from "only two parties ever" to "choose the best candidate" we'll be better off as a nation, as a people, as a world.
With first past the post voting -- i.e., non-proportional voting -- there will be 2 parties that are in contention.  It's not some personal failing or psychological issue or some dumb American thing.  It's a natural consequence of the voting system.  Even advocating for a third party to be recognized means you really just want to replace one of the 2 major parties. 

I know that sounds entirely declarative, and it is, but just b/c this is a really well-established finding in the field of political science and economics. 

There are pros and cons to FPP vs. other voting systems, which we can talk about later, but unless you change the voting system, you're going to see 2 "big tent" parties. 

Call me a bully if you like -- although I think that's unwarranted -- but I can't see the logic behind voting for a 3rd party candidate in a contested presidential election (i.e., if it's close in your state, if it's not, then signaling your feelings one way or another carries little cost).  It entails handing the presidency over to someone on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum in the very attenuated hopes of a party realignment.  There are other, more effective and less costly ways of effecting party realignment. 

As a side note, the big tent parties means that almost nobody is truly happy with them.  They are fragile compromise coalitions.  This goes double for people who are deeply invested in politics, as they tend to be preference outliers. 

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2016, 12:43:29 PM »
I was referring to the "not with=against" thing.  But it does apply to FPTP voting, it's why FPTP voting fails so often.  And I would like to point out that other nations have more than two parties in FPTP style voting, but would append that with the fact that their 'younger' and eventually, given no change in style of voting, it'll be whittled down to a mere two parties.

And for the bit about voting 3rd party to replace a major party?  Well, kind of.  My goal would be to break up the two parties, and this is the easiest way.  After that is broken, we can start working on a better voting system.  But until it is, we can't.

Her in IN, it will likely not be contested, and if it is, it won't matter anyways.  We almost never matter in an election.  And I refuse to vote for someone who will hurt me and my fellow man, and I will almost certainly never vote for someone who has personally insulted me, and I will vote my conscience, and I will vote for the best candidate.
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2016, 08:21:28 PM »
I was referring to the "not with=against" thing.  But it does apply to FPTP voting, it's why FPTP voting fails so often.  And I would like to point out that other nations have more than two parties in FPTP style voting, but would append that with the fact that their 'younger' and eventually, given no change in style of voting, it'll be whittled down to a mere two parties.

And for the bit about voting 3rd party to replace a major party?  Well, kind of.  My goal would be to break up the two parties, and this is the easiest way.  After that is broken, we can start working on a better voting system.  But until it is, we can't.

Her in IN, it will likely not be contested, and if it is, it won't matter anyways.  We almost never matter in an election.  And I refuse to vote for someone who will hurt me and my fellow man, and I will almost certainly never vote for someone who has personally insulted me, and I will vote my conscience, and I will vote for the best candidate.

The United Kingdom is younger? Wow.
I hate picking signatures.

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2016, 08:30:27 PM »
In terms of this type of politics yes, and you aren't even in the same type of elections system as us, your prime minister isn't elected.  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you primarily two parties as well?  Like, India.  India's been on its own for what, 50 years?  They have a lot of parties.  And it's getting smaller.  Some places have seemingly stabilized at 3, but without changing things really, I think it'll be reduced to 2 eventually.
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 9298
  • Somewhat Angry, Most of the Time
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2016, 08:36:15 PM »
In terms of this type of politics yes, and you aren't even in the same type of elections system as us, your prime minister isn't elected.  And, correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you primarily two parties as well?  Like, India.  India's been on its own for what, 50 years?  They have a lot of parties.  And it's getting smaller.  Some places have seemingly stabilized at 3, but without changing things really, I think it'll be reduced to 2 eventually.

... you do realise that Great Britain (the UK came later) had FPTP voting in 1707 and two (vague, but later solidified) parties? Then we got even more parties later on. And lost them. And regained. Rather active, this. :lmao

Also, you're correct, the PM isn't directly elected. And it is primarily two parties, though the identity of the second party has changed repeatedly (Tories are remarkably resilient, though; 309 years and counting) and the previous parliament was decided by a third party, so. Basically, the GE is what would happen if you smooshed the presidential and Congress elections into one big thing.

It's still a FPTP election, though. :rolleyes

(Also, why the hell would Washington have been notably against political parties... hm...)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2016, 08:38:05 PM by Raineh Daze »
I hate picking signatures.

Offline dman11235

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2571
  • Disclaimer: not at full capacity yet
    • View Profile
Re: The Politics Thread v3
« Reply #79 on: May 18, 2016, 09:09:23 PM »
But you aren't electing in the same way was my point.  Back in 1707 you still had a monarch calling the shots.  When did that stop and the monarch lose all real power?

And here in the US our political parties essentially came out of a feud between two candidates in the early 1800s.  That started the parties.  Then things got weird, and we had two, and then one went away and was replaced by the same one, then fast forward to the 60s when things got sucky.  Really you can blame Nixon for a lot of the US's electoral issues today.  A lot  of politics can be blamed on him....he cause the DNC to lose their minds and introduce superdelegates, he made the GOP the racist southerner party, you can blame the 80s on him too, and thus the 90s, just everything....
My Sig's Handy Haversack  Need help?  Want to see what I've done?  Want to see what others have done well?  Check it out.

Avatar d20