Author Topic: Random Homebrew Ideas  (Read 2495 times)

Offline MrWolfe

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Random Homebrew Ideas
« on: February 28, 2017, 09:54:55 PM »
Been noodling on some stuff because I'm a masochist and told my players I'd consider homebrewing class material for them if they had an idea that didn't quite fit the existing options. Curious to see what other people think of them, especially since I don't have a good feel for the balance of 5e yet:

Sacred Ward: Basically a ritual that functions like a long-term turn undead effect. 11 minutes to perform, 8 hr duration (though I might lower it), affects a 30' radius centered on where you performed the ritual. Any undead entering the radius have to make a will save or be Turned for 1 minute.

Was thinking of making this a class feature rather than an actual spell. I based it around the idea of a 1st level spell with a 1 min casting time and the ritual tag, but I'm worried it might get out of hand if anybody could pick it up using one of the various tricks for getting cross-class spells. Pros: Good for warding camp (or a building/town, with multiple uses) and setting up chokepoints/safe zones if you know an undead army is headed your way. Cons: Basically useless in combat, could radically alter the campaign world depending on how widespread access to the ritual is. (ie: Why isn't every town blanketed in these, and if they are, why are undead even a concern anymore?)

~

Muzzle of the Damned: A cursed mask that suppresses the effect of magical afflictions like lycanthropy and vampirism, but makes the wearer always seem hostile in social interactions. Any Charisma (Persuasion) roll made while wearing the mask is treated as though you used Intimidation instead, and any Deception or Performance rolls are made at disadvantage. Taking the mask off or covering it suppresses the effect, but you have to make a DC 15 Wisdom save to use any Charisma based skills, or else the mask instantly materializes over your face again and affects the check as normal. Even destroying the mask fails to prevent this from happening.

Basically it's a safeguard used when you can't or don't want to take the obvious step of either curing or killing the individual. The mask seals away their special powers and prevents them from infecting others, while also making it pretty damn hard for them to deceive/manipulate/sway an audience to their side. Essentially it's a form of magically-enforced banishment.

Really intended this as more of a balancing nerf for a class that does the whole "infected monster hunter who channels the power of their curse" schtick, though I might consider making it an actual item. Basically it's a way of swapping the curse of lycanthropy or vampirism for the lesser "curse" of jackassery. Obviously this would be more of a drawback for some characters than others. :rolleyes

~

Finally, a couple friends and I have been working on some tweaks to the UA Artificer/Alchemist. Seemed like it needed something so we bumped up the spellcastng progression a bit and added "Alchemical Discoveries"--basically invocation like abilities that enhance the Alchemist's formulas.

I've got the current changes written up in a google docs spreadsheet >here<.

So, any thoughts?
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 09:44:27 AM »
Sacred Ward is very close in functionality to Hallow, a 5th level spell with a 24 hour casting time.  You're removing some functionality and duration.  However, you also dropped the casting time significantly, and Hallow has a 1,000g component cost that's consumed during the casting.  Just eyeballing it, you have a 5th or 6th level spell-equivalent feature.

The mask seems fine as-is.

The alchemical discoveries look surprisingly well-designed for someone claiming not to have a great feel for 5e balance.  I can see a lot of warlock invocation design from the latest Warlock UA collection coming through.  Do you have the 5th level spells picked out?  The only discoveries that stick out in a bad way to me are Agonizing Alchemy, Strong Arm, and Swift Alchemy.  90 ft. is beyond the range of most throwing weapons and 60 ft. is the long-range standard for them.  Agonizing Alchemy and Swift Alchemy are designed in such a way that they're nearly-mandatory once available in much the same way that Agonizing Blast and Thirsting Blade are invocation taxes on warlocks.  You should consider just building Agonizing Alchemy as an archetype feature instead of a discovery.  Swift Alchemy would be less-complicated and less mandatory if it was a full-strength bonus action with a 1/short rest limiter.
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 07:31:19 PM »
Formula Admixture could have some interesting interactions with some classes (thunder clerics, etc) and it gives quite a bit of flexibility on damage types. I quite like it.

Greater Swiftstride still doesn't seem to really give enough in comparison to other stuff. A bonus action dash is nice, but you could probably throw a "two able to be made at a time, but not both used by one person at once" caveat onto it as well to make it seem like it's a really worthwhile option. That might be too good, but it's certainly worth a pick then. Maybe give it a 3rd or 5th level requirement to balance the fact that you're now the speed-boost man for half the party (about a 2nd/3rd lvl spell equivalent, but slotless).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 07:35:12 PM by sambojin »

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 10:57:32 PM »
Thanks for the input guys!

Actually, one of my friends did most of the alchemist discoveries. I think my only contributions there were the Greater Tanglefoot Bag and all the ones at the bottom patterned off the Mephistopheles Kiss invocation. Haven't even begun looking at 5th level spells for the artificer list yet, mainly because there's so much on my plate already and 17th level is quite a ways off.

I'm not that concerned about Strong Arm breaking the conventions for thrown weapon range because to my mind, alchemist formulas are more like reskinned cantrips with better scaling. You don't track weight or ammunition, you just keep using them at-will so long as you have your spell component pouch alchemist's satchel. As cantrips, 30' is absurdly poor range, and alchemists don't get any other offensive abilities or spells so they really need something to make up the difference. I might consider dropping Strong Arm down to 60' or re-fluffing it as a special alchemist's slingshot for the sake of verisimilitude, though.

Will definitely consider those suggestions about Agonizing Alchemy, Swift Alchemy, and Greater Swiftstride.

As for Sacred Ward, I did skim through the books looking for similar spells to use for reference but apparently missed Hallow? I remember it from earlier editions but didn't see it in this one. Looking it up though, Hallow is massively more powerful than Sacred Ward. It's got twice the radius, is permanent until dispelled, works on bunch of other creatures types instead of just undead, doesn't offer a save, and has a ton of extra effects added on. Sacred Ward is literally just Turn Undead (a second level ability) with a longer duration and activation time.

I do agree I might have "underpriced" Sacred Ward, though. The duration is increased a lot more than the casting time, and the fact that it doesn't use resources could be an issue if someone decides to spend their downtime plastering these all over town. I wouldn't say it's anywhere near equivalent to a 5th level spell, but it definitely needs something else to balance it down if I want to keep it in the same ballpark as Turn Undead.

Ironically, thanks to some input from the player I'm going to have to start over on that one anyway.

The concept we're going for now is for the ability to craft a kind of divinely-infused incense that wards against undead... (Like a citronella candle for zombies) ...with the downside that breathing it for too long can have unfortunate consequences on the living as well.

Basically, they're Holy Smokes that gives you the Holy Sh--s. :D

This version's going to be a little tougher to balance. The side effects are intended to discourage using it for extended periods, but it's only a matter of time before someone tries to weaponize that "drawback." Add to the fact that an ongoing Turning effect usable as an action is flat out better than Turn Undead, and I really wanted to keep these abilities roughly equivalent. The player has said they'd like it to be something they could craft during downtime and give out to other people (like town guards), but that isn't an absolute requirement. They're also okay with having it require spell slots to use, so maybe a ritual spell that can be cast in combat or done as a ritual between fights, that infuses a stick of incense with this effect? I think I'd definitely prefer this be something like a spell or a craftable than a class feature, because I'd feel weird having it be something only the custom monster-hunter class I'm making can do and not, for example, Clerics--who basically specialize in this kind of thing.

Honestly I could use some suggestions, because I'm a little out of brain at the moment. :tongue
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2017, 05:49:58 PM »
A little windup time might be ok on them. Turn undead happens instantly, but if you had 3-8 (d6+2) rounds for the smoke to waft around and start magicking the area properly then you've still got problems until that kicks in. The DM secret-rolls it, not the player, so you never really know how long you need. Which makes it feel nicely defensive and not overpowered. Lasts for a minute I guess? Or two? Maybe 2x1min uses, but if it gets knocked over or moved (see below) that use is blown?

Depending on how you want to do it as an item, I'd make them somewhat like a tiki torch. Ie, they've got to be on/stuck into the ground and lit to work properly. This means you have to defend the item until the effect kicks in, it has the windup time each time it's moved, and if it gets knocked over/destroyed/moved the effect immediately ends. 30' or even 60' range is ok, considering their immobility. Could go higher if you wanted I guess, but then you could start blanketing areas too easily.

Allows for some player creativity in their placement and use, and gives you an out as a DM if they end up being a bit too good. They try to keep them safe (but they've got to be stuck in the ground or somewhere holy), you try (ie: do) knock them over or destroy them. Or make it rain or something.


"Light the tiki torches! Man the gates! They come!"
Cue guards running around, hoping they can deploy the torches quickly enough, defend the torches for long enough, hoping the effect kicks in fast enough, with the effect only really giving enough time for reinforcements to arrive anyway.


With the drawbacks I'd make them reasonably cheap. A turn undead use, a 2nd or 3rd spell slot use and x amount of gold? Can make one or two a day as the projected outcome, at 25-1000gp each (depending on player levels and cash availability), so they're mostly just for key points and staff. Gives you the shits if you're in the area of more than one a day, or for more than a minute or two each day? 5 mins? Or more than an hour if you go for long duration torches.

Might be a bit OP or weak, but you could tweak them from there depending on what you want from them. More expensive = less windup time or more range? Even d6 rounds windup time might be enough to make them interesting to use. You could increase the duration if you wanted, but anything over an hour is way too much. 2x5min uses per torch, giving enough time for reinforcements to actually arrive? Reactive items ("Oh shit, here come some skellies!") rather than proactive defenses ("We're safe all night....") are usually better in gameplay. Even an hour long effect would only be used when there's undead actually around the area, not as a "spark-em-up-and-sleep-easy" solution. There's really expensive spells for that.


d6+2 round windup, 2x5min uses per torch, must be in the ground and lit to work (full round action to stick in and light to use, even if it's already in the ground, uses bonus action and reaction too), a use wasted if it's moved/tipped over/snuffed out/destroyed with effect ending immediately, 30' (or 45'?) range, turning effect as good as the person's turn undead that made it, all sounds like a reasonable compromise. Powerful, but not too powerful, and anyone can use it. You've just got to put a cost and creation time on it. The actual spell used or the slot used is a bit inconsequential for divine casters during downtime, so maybe just a 5th or 7th level divine character minimum to create them?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 07:11:39 PM by sambojin »

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2017, 02:31:58 AM »
Wow, thanks a lot for all the input there--definitely gives me some ideas to work with.

I like the windup idea. It preserves the element of dramatic tension because you have to either hope it kicks in before the undead get there or fend them off until starts working, and fits better with the player's idea of something the guards only use when they know undead are on the way. The shorter duration is good too, it's more interesting as a temporary measure used in emergencies than a form of all-night protection.

Think I'll tinker with these ideas a bit, brainstorm with the player, and see what we come up with. At this point I can see a few versions that I'd definitely OK, but the trick is finding the one that fits what the player wanted as well. One thing I could do to bring it down in potency a bit is add a hit point limit, like color spray or sleep, so that each "candle" only affects a certain number of HP total before the divine energy or whatever is depleted. That could also make it work better as an anti-minon device, but still leave the option for a powerful undead to push through the effect. Would have to think carefully about how to scale the HP in that case though.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2017, 02:37:37 AM by MrWolfe »
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2017, 06:13:02 PM »
That's a pretty good idea. It maintains the whole "defend it or the undead will get you" arrangement, making even smaller groups still be a threat. It sort of gives undead forces a power structure, where lower price candles might not be effective against skeleton champions/big zombies/etc, meaning that they've got a reason to be there on top of the standard stat boost. They're the candle kickers, so you might not be safe even when the necromancer/vampire/whatever doesn't show up.

More of a "you're safe from most of them" rather than a "you're safe from all of them" thing. It's easy to dump a few HD/stats onto any enemy type so that encounters still happen how you want them to, even if these turning candles end up getting mass produced by your players.

It should also let you scale the "perceived" threat of the undead massively upward when you want. There might be thousands of zombies about to attack the village, but once the candles are lit, it's more like 5-10 champions and their master that are actually able to. Unless the candles get destroyed, then you've got real problems. Makes you be able to scale things into "absolutely heroic" territory, even if in reality a lot of the threat is just a backdrop for the normal fighting to happen near.

You might even want to make up a couple of different types of incense/torch/candle if you want to use them as epic mcguffin material. There's always a cleric somewhere that tinkers with stuff like this without telling anyone about it, makes a few uber powerful ones, and always seems to die in the ensuing mega-clash (ensuring the super-powered versions never happen in normal play again, or not without years of downtime anyway). Easy, lazy mcguffin scenario that's applicable to any level of play. "Hold back the horde!" (with candles this time!)

Offline MrWolfe

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Re: Random Homebrew Ideas
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2017, 07:23:36 PM »
Yeah, I really like how this is shaping up. :D

Adding in a HP limit is nice because it means you don't have to buff a monsters' saves to let it get through, which could potentially make it "immune" to other PC abilities as well. Instead, you can either add a few HP to one monster, or just throw out a bigger horde to soak up the effect--ensuring that the number of enemies you want the party to fight still get through, but the player isn't left feeling like they wasted a turn on an ability that didn't do anything.

The player in question is supposed to be part of a special order of divinely-trained monster hunters, so it makes sense they might know of a few anti-undead tricks that aren't widely known. I do think I'm going to make this an item, rather than a class feature, so other divine casters could potentially make it if they knew the formula.

Hmm, something tells me it's time to start looking at the magic item guidelines in the DMG. Hopefully there's actually something there besides "the 5e devs don't think your players should have magic items, so we didn't write rules for making them." :rolleyes
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