Author Topic: Converting spells to 5e  (Read 1555 times)

Offline bhu

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Converting spells to 5e
« on: August 11, 2017, 08:13:49 PM »
I need to work on converting a ton of spells to 5e.  TenaciousJ helped on the old boards but I havent seen him since the changeover.  Anyone willing to lend some advice?

Offline Wilb

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2017, 09:40:34 AM »
I'd like to aid you, but I have no idea how :???

If you want suggestions, illusion, conjuration, necromancy and enchantment spells, in this order, are what 5e crapped the most (in my opinion), so new options, maybe from the Spell Compendium, would be nice to convert.
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Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2017, 03:15:36 PM »
I don't have that much experience with homebrewing spells compared to monsters and other options, but I can always try my hand.
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2017, 04:25:52 PM »
I'm playing 5e right now and know 3.5 well enough compared to the "ToB is sooo overpowered, Clerics should be there to heal" average joe. Just shoot, at worst my chattering is useless.

Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2017, 08:54:21 PM »
Lemme get thru the oncoming clusterfuck at work over the next day or so adn I'll have something ready.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2017, 05:25:51 PM »
Hey why not ... (demons cackle , devils check their infernal ranking)


Leugren did the most detailed listing of the PHB stuff, and there's lots of holes to be filled.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471765-A-Compilation-of-Useful-Spell-Lists-(Leugren)
Some classes have NO unique spells at various or most levels, and some Schools are q2uite bare.

Basic/Srd has most, but doesn't have all of those. Elemental Evil players guide is free.
SCAG has a $$midge, Volo has nothing. The upcoming Xanathar's is supposed to have all sorts of stuff.

Sorc's got a metamagic guide here, and some metas have very few possible combos.
No uniques at all too.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?508506-Rynic-s-Metamagic-Compendium

Bard could go backline/Lore favored, split a bit with combat/Valor favored.
Barb could get a ritual or 2.
Cleric needs a mere handful.
Druid needs plenty especially after level 11.
FiEK has no uniques.
Monk 4 elements needs the biggest upgrade (1 spell "ki" point cantrips, should be the best ones in the game).
RogAT has no uniques and very few Ench 3rd+4th choices.
Pally has a few holes.
Ranger + BM especially (but the official upgrades are coming) , need all sorts of improvements and built-in upgrades.
Sorc I mentioned.
Wiz needs almost nothing.
Warlock gets very thin at certain levels and few uniques, and Blade needs upgrades galore.

Divination is the emptiest school.
Rituals get extremely thin, and poorly distributed.
Cantrips are unevenly distributed.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 05:27:56 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2017, 11:34:22 PM »
Okay the following spells are used by PrC's and such I have converted or intend to:


0: Arcane Mark, Silent Portal, Touch of Fatigue
1: Critical Strike, Detect Secret Doors, Distract, Distract Assailant, Divine Sacrifice, Ebon Eyes, Embrace the Wild, Endure Elements, Instant Search, Hawkeye, Lightfoot, Marked Object, Snowshoes, Spontaneous Search,
2: Baleful Transposition, Balancing Lorecall, Entice Gift, Fell the Greatest Foe, Jagged Tooth, Lion's Charge, Listening Lorecall, Misdirection, Nature's Favor, Protection from Arrows,  Touch of Idiocy
3: Claws of Darkness, Deeper Dark Vision, Shadow Cache, Tremor Sense
4: Break Enchantment, Charm Monster,  Displacer Form, Know Vulnerabilities, Shout
5: Nightstalkers Transformation
6: Bite of the Were Tiger, Hide the Path, Shadow Walk
7:  Evil Glare
8: Demand, Fierce Pride of the Beastlands, Greater Shout


So how much of this is already duplicated by existing 5 e spells/cantrips?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 07:44:03 PM by bhu »

Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2017, 09:24:33 AM »
This will take a little while since I don't remember most of these, but it shouldn't be too hard. Let me first go through the spells I know for a fact have a direct equivalent in 5e, then I'll take the time to go through the rest and see if any spells are close enough. There's also a few I think probably shouldn't be converted to 5th (and some I think had no business being printed for 3rd in the first place).

Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Greater Teleport, and Astral Projection all have direct equivalents or are subsumed into another spell in 5e. Detect Magic is a 1st-level spell rather than a cantrip (it works slightly differently but has the same purpose and general function), the Minor Illusion cantrip can make either an illusory sound or a small illusory image, Lesser Restoration can cure several conditions including blindness and deafness, the 5e Teleport spell (7th level) sort of combines 3.x's Teleport and Greater Teleport in having unlimited range on the same plane of existence but retaining a failure chance.

I'll take some time to go over the rest of the list in more detail later. Remind me to look at your other 5e stuff sometime.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 09:26:40 AM by Agita »
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2017, 11:38:20 AM »
I went through the first couple of levels.

I agree with Agita that some of the spells shouldn't be converted, such as those that give a huge bonus in a narrow area such as tracking (which breaks Bounded Accuracy), spells that simulate class features of other classes (like the Crit-improvers, which tread on the Fighter/Champion's biggest shtick, or Nerveskitter, which treads on the Ranger's improved initiative) or the Bite of the X line (which simply overwhelms the existing buff spells in 5e, even with the new Concentration restrictions).

0:
Detect Magic => Detect Magic (1st level)
Ghost Sound => Minor Illusion
Open/Close => Prestidigitation / Thaumaturgy


Spells with no counterpart:
Arcane Mark
Daze
Know Direction
Naturewatch
Silent Portal
Touch of Fatigue

1:
Bless Weapon => Magic Weapon
Bloodhound => Enhance Ability (Wisdom)
Calm Animals => Animal Friendship
Camouflage => Enhance Ability (Dex)
Cause Fear => Fear
Dead End => Pass Without Trace
Detect Animals and Plants => Locate Animals and Plants
Hypnotism => Hypnotic Pattern
Magic Fang => Magic Weapon
Remove Fear => Calm Emotions
Remove Scent => Pass Without Trace
Stalking Brand => Hunter's Mark
Surefoot => Enhance Ability (Dex)
Swift Expeditious Retreat => Misty Step

Spells with no counterpart:
Accelerated Movement
Critical Strike
Detect Secret Doors
Detect Undead
Distract
Distract Assailant
Divine Sacrifice
Ebon Eyes
Embrace the Wild
Endure Elements
Insightful Feint
Instant Search
Hawkeye
Hide from Animals
Lay of the Land
Lightfoot
Living Prints
Marked Object
Nerveskitter
Net of Shadows
Read Magic
Serene Visage
Silent Portal
Snowshoes
Spontaneous Search
Ventriloquism
Virtue

Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2017, 02:51:36 PM »
Let's see now. As a note: I am completely ignoring any Unearthed Arcana playtest material, both because I don't want to hunt it down across several releases and because it's not official material yet. I am also liberally inserting my own opinions on what's worth porting. Hot take alert, and all.

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This is as far as I'm getting for now. The rest should be a little faster when I get to them.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 05:38:33 PM by Agita »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2017, 05:19:58 PM »
The elemental evil palyer's guide in UA is official (and free), tho' idk what the official play league says about it.

RogAT does have oops a specific "meta-" for Mage Hand, call it improved Mage Hand.
Ghost Sound is half of Minor Illusion, and combines the 2 parts in Wiz Ill , as a similar "meta-" .  Boosts could include scent touch taste esp.
Technically the Monk 4 elements 1 ki point things are cantrips, just ought'a be really good ones.

Know Direction is a Survival check, also a feat that has a don't get lost clause (no chatter on it at all).

Good stuff Agita and Skyrock.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2017, 08:55:57 PM »
RogAT?

I'm editing the list as you guys mention stuff.  Added 4 new 2nd level spells, theyre marked with *.  Forgot them on 1st run.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 09:32:55 PM by bhu »

Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 04:01:04 AM »
Holy Sword would be mechanically problematic in 5e ported straight (flat bonuses to hit and damage break the system's math, and effects that key off alignment basically don't exist with very few exceptions), and is conceptually basically covered under all the various Smite spells.
Where are the other three from? I can't find Glory of the Martyr, Prayer of Fortitude, or Sword of Conscience in Spell Compendium, so I assume they're in a Complete book or something more obscure.

EDIT: Found all but Prayer of Fortitude in BoED.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:37:09 AM by Agita »
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Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 05:02:39 AM »
That should be Prayer.  My bad

Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 06:00:11 AM »
Here's the rest. If Prayer of Fortitude is just Prayer, I've covered that.

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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 05:00:50 PM »
Rogue Arcane Trickster ... not particularly anyone's standard other than mine.

Most of the non- HP damage Cantrips, don't have a leveling up thingy to them for level 5 or 11 or 17.


More good stuff Agita, it's almost ... like you were just waiting for Bhu to get crazy bad co-workers and 5e.

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Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2017, 12:36:36 AM »
So I got the above spells for ideas, and about 50 homebrew spells for my kitty class if I wanna do conversions.


Gonna be a bit to get this one done...

Offline bhu

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2017, 04:36:08 AM »
Okay, here's some rough ideas

PERSONAL MARK
1st Level Transmutation (Ritual)
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S
Duration: 24 Hours
You leave a mark that is only visible to certain other beings.  It can be a message of up to 6 letters.  You may choose from one of the following options:

1: Only beings who have the same class you do (Wizard for example).
2: Only creatures of a certain Type.
3: Only members of a specific Guild, group or organization.
4: Only beings you have known personally for more than a week.
5: You can make it a Scent Mark, and it can only be detected by beings with Keen Scent.

Regardless of what option you take, certain spells or effects such as See Invisibility Truesight reveal the mark.  They do not, however, reveal the message.
Appropriate Spell Lists: Any


STEALTH
Illusion cantrip
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: 30 ft.
Components: S
Duration: 1 Hour
For the duration of the spell, one opening of your choice makes absolutely no sound if it is opened or closed.  This can be a door, window, gate, drawer, chest lid, and so on.  Damage to the object still makes noise, however.  Optionally this can be cast before attempting an attack or using an object, and no sound is made for that Action.
Appropriate Spell Lists: Arcane Trickster, Bard


TOUCH OF FATIGUE
2nd Level Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 Action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 Hour
You touch a creature, and the target of your spell must make a Constitution Saving Throw or receive 1 Level of Exhaustion.
  At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.
Appropriate Spell Lists: Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 10:05:06 PM by bhu »

Offline Agita

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #18 on: August 18, 2017, 06:38:55 AM »
Sure. I have three comments on the Touch of Fatigue conversion. First, since it's a touch-range debuff, it would make sense to me for it to require an attack roll, which touch-range spells do not just by default in 5e. Your mileage may vary on this, it's not a big deal either way (and there are some valid reasons to force a save rather than an attack roll, such as not allowing a player to use inspiration on the attack roll to increase the chance of hitting). If you do want it to need an attack, though, I would not also give it a saving throw before it even takes effect.
Second, I would have it scale with higher spell slot levels, rather than automatically, if you want it to scale. Only cantrips really scale automatically, and then just damaging cantrips, to keep pace with other classes' weapon damage increases. Spells of 1st level and higher always use higher-level spell slots to get bigger effects.
Third, I recommend being very careful with giving out more than two exhaustion levels at a time. This is in one part because the sixth level of exhaustion outright kills you, and partly because the exhaustion debuffs at higher levels quickly get to be very universal, very harsh, and very long-lasting. If I'm handing out three levels of exhaustion, then I only need to peg you twice to kill you with no further questions asked. This is fine when you're only giving out one level, because then you need six hits, but two is a little problematic. Three (with two levels of exhaustion per casting) is sort of borderline. Also, with three levels of exhaustion, the target is taking disadvantage on all attack rolls and saves, which not only nearly neuters their offense but also makes it that much easier to stick the second casting (or... any other nasty things you want to do to them).
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Offline Skyrock

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Re: Converting spells to 5e
« Reply #19 on: August 18, 2017, 07:36:02 AM »
Personal Mark:
Would work better as a Level 1 spell with the Ritual tag. Known Cantrips are sharply limited. Known spells are less limited and leave more leeway for utility spells that aren't time-critical.

Stealth:
I think on its own this is a much too narrow and weak effect to ever be considered by any player. Maybe if you added the reverse effect of making a particular opening loud and creaky so that it can do double duty as a poor man's Alarm, and even then it would be on the lower end of cantrips.

Touch of Fatigue:
1.) No attack roll or save on a level 1 spell? Unprecedented but by the purposefully weak Magic Missile.
2.) As Agita noted, spells other than cantrips scale generally by spell slot, not automatically by level.
3.) Fatigue is a quick killer in 5e, and the ways to get rid of it are slow. A long rest heals one(!) level of fatigue. Greater Restoration, a lvl5-spell, heals one(!) level of exhaustion. Your spell hits the players and monsters 6 levels before they could possibly have a way to counteract its effect other than through running away and sleeping a few days and 2 levels before they could prevent it using Counterspell.
4.) Being instantuous makes this much, much stronger than the 3.5 version, where the fatigue only lasted CL rounds and couldn't be stacked.