Author Topic: Extract Gift Information  (Read 17417 times)

Offline ariasderros

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Extract Gift Information
« on: December 17, 2011, 03:21:46 PM »
Extract Gift is a spell out of the Fiendish Codex 1, beginning on page 92. People have been talking about this spell on these boards off and on for a while, but we haven’t had a decent source on how to optimize it. So I went through the books and looked at the demons. Then I compiled a list of who is best for what skills and abilities.

About the Spell
(click to show/hide)

This list is for people who can already optimize the process by:
A) Getting your caster level high enough.
B) Can find a way to do the spell for free. (Dweomerkeeper / Shadowcratft Mage using Miracle / Spellstiching)
C) Have a way to bind Demons of up to 20HD. (Greater Planar Binding + Malconvoker / Gate)

Because of the Caster Level limitation, this spell really isn’t useful until the better methods from B and C are available, so my list is focused on the best you can get from up to 20HD Demons and does not include specific creatures.

I didn’t put this as a Handbook because of how specific it is, but it’s up to ya’ll.
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2011, 03:23:01 PM »
Extracting Gifts from Demons
Skill                                             Demon                                   Ranks      Book      Page
Balance                                       Draudnu                                 17             MM5      24
Bluff                                            Balor                                      23            MM         40
Climb                                          Adaru                                     16            MM5       20
Concentration                             Balor                                       23            MM        40
Decipher Script                          Sibriex                                    18            FC1         52
Diplomacy                                  Balor                                       23            MM        40
Disguise                                      Lilitu                                      17            FC1         43
Escape Artist                              Draudnu                                 17            MM5       24
Forgery                                       Molydeus                               22            FC1         46
Gather Information                     Sibriex                                   18            FC1         52
Heal                                            Sibriex                                   18            FC1          52
Hide                                            Balor                                      23            MM          40
Intimidate                                   Balor                                      23            MM          40
Jump                                           Draudnu                                17            MM5        24
Listen                                         Balor                                      23            MM          40
Move Silently                            Balor                                      23            MM          40
Open Lock                                 Babau                                    10            MM          40
Search                                        Balor                                     23            MM          40
Sense Motive                             Balor                                     23            MM          40
Sleight of Hand                          Guecubu                               7              FC1          41
Spellcraft                                    Balor                                    23            MM          40
Spot                                            Balor                                    23            MM          40
Survival                                      Sorrowsworn                       21            MM3        36
Swim                                          Myrmyxicus                         21            FF            52
Tumble                                       Mature Nabassu                   18            FC1          49
Use Magic Device                      Balor                                    23            MM          40
Perform X                                  Lilitu                                     17            FC1          43
Knowledge (Arcana)                 Myrmyxicus                          21            FF           52
Knowledge (Geography)           Sorrowsworn                         21            MM3       36
Knowledge (Local)                    Mature Nabassu                    18            FC1         49
Knowledge (Religion)               Myrmyxicus                          21            FF           52
Knowledge (Planes)                  Myrmyxicus                          21            FF           52
Use Rope                                    None (With more than 1)               
Profession X                               None               
Appraise                                     None               
Autohypnosis                             None               
Craft X                                       None               
Disable Device                           None               
Handle Animal                          None               
Martial Lore                              None               
Ride                                           None               
Truespeak                                  None               
Strength                                      Balor                                 (35) 12       MM       40
Dexterity                                    Kelvezu                             (31) 10       MM2     60
Constitution                               Sorrowsworn                     (32) 11       MM3     36
Intelligence                                Sibriex                               (25) 7         FC1       52
Wisdom                                     Balor                                  (24) 7         MM       40
Charisma                                   Lilitu                                  (30) 10       FC1        43
(I used Tabs to make this, I’ll clean it up more as I can)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 03:58:36 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2011, 03:23:35 PM »
Balors can max any two knowledges as well. Other Demons have ranks in other knowledges, but as the Balor (and others) can max “any” knowledges, I did not bother to mark those with low  knowledge’s.
Goristro has 18 ranks in jump, but has 24HD. Deathdrinker  has  25 ranks in jump, but has 27HD.
Lilitu will max one perform at 17.
Broodswarms have 11 ranks in Disable Devise and Open Lock, but it would be up for debate if you can use Extract Gift on a Swarm.
If you can pass to your DM that any Outsider with both the Evil and Chaotic subtypes can be used for Extract Gift (and I don’t see why not) then the Aspect of Lolth out of MH has a Wisdom score of 28 and 17 ranks each in Appraise, Climb and Craft (Alchemy).
If you can pass to your DM that any Outsider with both the Evil and Chaotic subtypes can be used for Extract Gift (and I don’t see why not) then there should be tricks available to get yourself or your party members (or even more powerful people / entities) to count as Demons (Yochlol Blessing DotU p63 takes care of Evil and Outsider, need something to gain the Chaotic that’s quick and easy).


Books I found Demons in
(click to show/hide)
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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2011, 03:23:59 PM »
Raising the Demons Stats (for Spell Storage I am referring to Delicate Disk from LEoF, Ability Enhancer is in the Dragon Compendium)
I am aware it is possible to raise these even further, but this is just the stuff that is easy to do.

Strength
(click to show/hide)

Dexterity
(click to show/hide)

Constitution
(click to show/hide)

Intelligence
(click to show/hide)

Wisdom
(click to show/hide)

Charisma
(click to show/hide)


So still looking for a way to easily gain the (Chaotic) racial subtype.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 04:26:16 PM by ariasderros »
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Offline Bastian

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2011, 07:15:52 PM »
Quote
I didn’t put this as a Handbook because of how specific it is, but it’s up to ya’ll.
This really should go into the Handbook section, just call it something like Extract Gift Mini-Handbook.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2011, 07:16:55 PM »
Extract Gift?  What happens if you use it on Santa?

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2011, 07:57:19 PM »
Extract Gift?  What happens if you use it on Santa?

 :drums
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 03:24:17 AM by ariasderros »
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Offline JaronK

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2011, 09:47:26 PM »
Note that one of the most powerful uses of this spell (or better yet, spell like ability) occurs if you can make yourself count as a demon.  Then you can see out the eyes of anyone you use the spell on!

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Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2011, 11:45:55 PM »
Note that one of the most powerful uses of this spell (or better yet, spell like ability) occurs if you can make yourself count as a demon.  Then you can see out the eyes of anyone you use the spell on!

JaronK

1) And in my posts I ask if anyone knows how to do that. (baring SS rituals)

2) And I would argue that doing a SCM Miracle (via Arcane Disciple-Luck) to ignore the costs would be better than an SLA, because it is easier to boost your CL that way. To each their own. This is more on what to bind, than how to exploit. There are way too many different ways to get spells for free to cover them all, and some will be veto'ed in certain campaigns, and some will not be, and everyone has their favorite.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2011, 12:59:04 AM by ariasderros »
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Offline TC X0 Lt 0X

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2011, 12:12:57 AM »
Use this spell to great effect for my Lv30 Character in the Epic Game being ran.
Because Spellblade and a High CL Magic Mouth make me effectiely Immune to Dispels and this spell is so much Cheaper then the equivalent Magic Items.
Im really bad at what I do.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2011, 03:51:51 PM »

Agree with Bastian about Handbook -ing this ... but just not quite yet.

Cranking CL up isn't really a problem.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2011, 03:59:43 PM »

Agree with Bastian about Handbook -ing this ... but just not quite yet.

Cranking CL up isn't really a problem.

What else should be added? I could probably do it and update this either tonight or next Saturday at the latest.
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Offline The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2011, 11:31:27 PM »
Extract Gift?  What happens if you use it on Santa?

Oh, come on, that's hardly a joke.  You should at least call him "Satan Claus".

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2011, 11:57:02 PM »
Extract Gift?  What happens if you use it on Santa?

Oh, come on, that's hardly a joke.  You should at least call him "Satan Claus".
Did you hear about the dyslexic devil-worshiper? He sold his soul to Santa.

But yeah, Satan Claus might have worked.  I still got a rimshot out of it though, so I'm happy.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 03:29:58 PM »

Agree with Bastian about Handbook -ing this ... but just not quite yet.

Cranking CL up isn't really a problem.

What else should be added? I could probably do it and update this either tonight or next Saturday at the latest.

Heh ... mostly Santa/Satan Claus jokes it seems.


Satan Claus has a Red Nosed Reindeer , but he uses it differently  :smirk
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline X-Codes

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 03:34:19 PM »
Use this spell to great effect for my Lv30 Character in the Epic Game being ran.
Because Spellblade and a High CL Magic Mouth make me effectiely Immune to Dispels and this spell is so much Cheaper then the equivalent Magic Items.
I don't think so... If memory serves, you spend market price for the item, and then spend XP on top of that.

Unless you're circumventing the XP and GP components of the spell somehow, which is fine.

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2011, 04:09:51 PM »
Use this spell to great effect for my Lv30 Character in the Epic Game being ran.
Because Spellblade and a High CL Magic Mouth make me effectiely Immune to Dispels and this spell is so much Cheaper then the equivalent Magic Items.
I don't think so... If memory serves, you spend market price for the item, and then spend XP on top of that.

Unless you're circumventing the XP and GP components of the spell somehow, which is fine.

Actually, the reason it gets cheaper is because when making an item with a bonus of over +6 to the stat you multiply the cost by 10 for epic. Before that point the EG spell is actually more expensive, because the spell would have the same GP cost as the market value, and the XP cost of making the item, sooooo..... bad cost. But if you can avoid the majority of the cost, or all of it, then you're set.

But seriously, what all else should be added?
1) Why it isn't worth it until ~level 16?
2) How a 4 man team can get +20 Str +16 Dex, +15 Con, +12 Int, +19 Wis, and +15 Cha at level 16? (with relatively few abuses, ignoring WBL, Shadowcraft Miracle, ETF - Time stop to re-prep spells, and Simulacrum - Ethereal Doppelgangers)
3) Any input from anyone else?
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Offline X-Codes

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2011, 04:14:16 PM »
Ah, I see.  I didn't notice that it wasn't capped.  Hmm... it's still very difficult to use in this way, though.  You need a caster level of 28 just to get a +7 bonus...

Offline ariasderros

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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2011, 04:43:18 PM »
Ah, I see.  I didn't notice that it wasn't capped.  Hmm... it's still very difficult to use in this way, though.  You need a caster level of 28 just to get a +7 bonus...


http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872350/Raising_Caster_Level


For a SCM, at level 16. "Double Magic" refers to a Heightened, Earth-spell, Sanctum Silent image (hightened to 8, Earth to 9, then sanctum to 10) Miracle emulating the spell writen. Also what is used for the spell phylactery.
(click to show/hide)
So with a CL of 84, that means the cap is 21. Only really relevant for Str, as I can't get the other demon stats that high (Yet).

Also note: I know this CL-maxing is more OP than fits in most campaigns.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2011, 04:49:42 PM by ariasderros »
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Re: Extract Gift Information
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2011, 05:28:59 PM »
I'm well aware of shenanigans to get ridiculous caster levels.  They tend to require a pool of resources all their own just to get working, though.