Author Topic: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread  (Read 14637 times)

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2275
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • Ask me
Please make suggestions for additions. Thank you.

Handbook
http://crystalballsoft.com/cblite.html  The best dice roller on the planet, bar none. Read the FAQ to see why.

https://www.box.com/s/du6s5uysdwfony9dfd3p  The Official Complete Psionic Errata.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dbmkg8efcbn4eak/AABSjyTbZIEDdIWm0I_uVFkpa?dl=0 The Archive.

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 12:00:29 PM »
Thanks for putting this together.

These additions are from a list I got a long, long time ago, from someone named "Thugsb"

Blind-Fight (Corsair's Eyepatch, 3k, MIC) "grants you the benefit of the Blind-Fight feat for 1 min." Usable 3/day, Swift (also grants See Invisibility).

Bracers of the Blinding Strike: Bracers of armor +6; gain Improved Initiative feat, extra attack as if using a speed weapon 102,000 (Magic of Faerûn)
- since you draw a distinction, these give the "benefits" but not the feat. (MOF, pg155)

Maximize Spell on Conjuration(Healing) only - Armband of Maximized Healing, 1/dy, 7200gp, MOF, pg152
Maximize Spell on Healing spell - Armband of Maximized Healing, 3/dy, 7200gp, MIC-72, on healing spells of 6th level or lower

Run (Panther Mask (Gharyn's Monastic Array), 2,700, MIC-201) "provides you the benefits of the Run feat" - also gain +5' land speed in light or no armor (Dash feat?)

Track (Mask of the Tiger (Garb of the Hunting Cat), 4000, MIC-200) "grants you the benefits of the Track feat".  Also gain low-light vision.

Extra Music (Songblade, 6,400gp, CAdv-130) Only when wielded and only 1 extra bardic music/day (benefit, not feat)

Extra Spell (Pearl of Power, Lvl*Lvl*1,000, DMG) - benefit, not feat
Extra Slot (Memento Magicka, Lvl*Lvl*1,500, MIC-164) - benefit, not feat

Extra Turning (Nightstick, 7,500, Libris Mortis-78) - lets you turn/rebuke 4 more times per day (benefit, not feat)
Extra Turning (Reliquary Holy Symbol, 1000, MIC-120) Number of extra turn attempts given varies

Improved Sunder (Dragonfang Gauntlets, 8,610gp, MIC-95) 3 attacks/day

Metamagic — Reach Spell; Rod (MIC-165); 3 uses/day, cost varies

Metamagic Spell Trigger (Metamagic Wandgrip, 6000, CM)

Quickdraw (Eager weapon enhancement, +1 bonus, MIC-34)
Quickdraw (Crystal of Return (least), 300gp, MIC-65)
Sudden Extend (Aquamarine of Spell Extending, 3,700gp, PGtF)
Track and Scent (Headband of Pursuit, 15k, Secrets of Sarlona)
Uncanny Dodge (Warning Weapon, +1, MoF) - this is in my list of items that grant feats, but I think uncanny dodge is a class ability, not a feat.
Whirlwind Attack (Whirling weapon enhancement, +1, MIC-46) 3/day

Any Fighter Feat (Eternal/Wand of Heroics, 4420gp/4500gp, MIC) Either 2/day (so 60mins) or 50 charges - this is in my list of items that grant feats, but it should probably go under "spells"
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 10:48:00 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 12:14:24 PM »
A&EG, pg 139, lists some costs for adding things to intelligent items
  • Combat Reflexes - +10,000gp
  • Blind-fight - +10,000gp
  • Improved Initiative - +10,000gp
  • Mobility - +10,000gp
  • Sunder - +10,000gp
  • Expertise - +10,000gp


Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4303
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 12:16:08 PM »
All or almost all of the Bite of the Were-Whatever spells grant feats.

Mirror Move is a 3.0 spell (from a web enhancement, I think) that gives multiple Fighter feats (as long as you can watch someone who already has them). Similarly, the Feat Leech power lets you steal someone else's psionic feats.

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 12:33:01 PM »
Just saw this in another thread

A feycraft light weapon lets you use DEX instead of STR just as if you has Weapon Finesse.  Not even magical, just a special property. (DMG2, pg275)

Offline Ziltoid

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 106
  • Bring me your finest black beans
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 12:54:05 PM »
While they're not items, most Magical Locations do have a listed gp value for if you want to use them as treasure

IIRC there's already a handbook on old BG, but it hasn't been ported over.
Would it be an idea to include them?

Offline snakeman830

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1047
  • BG's resident furry min/maxer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 01:23:34 PM »
Two major things I need to point out:

1. Almost all (if not all) of the Metamagic rods in Complete Arcane were reprinted in MIC for much cheaper (that is, actually in line with the formulas used for the DMG metamagic rods instead of practically double that price).

2. The Precise weapon enhancement never references the Precise Shot feat in any way.  It merely removes the -4 penalty for shooting into melee.  It does NOT grant the benefit of Precise Shot, nor the feat itself, instead it gives an identical, numeric benefit.
"When life gives you lemons, fire them back at high velocity."

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 05:32:28 PM »
Hummm - I noticed they were reprinted, never noticed the drop in price.  Thanks!

Edit - there are 4 metamagic rods in the MIC.  One (Reach Spell) is brand new.  The other three are indeed about 1/2 price from their original listing.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:58:28 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 05:56:58 PM »
Updated metamagic rods

Metamagic — Chaining Spell; Rod (MIC-165); 3 uses/day, cost 14,000 / 54,000 / 121,500

Metamagic — Cooperation Spell; Rod (CAr-146); 3 uses/day, cost 2,700 / 10,500 / 24,300

Metamagic — Empower Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 9,000 / 32,500 / 73,000

Metamagic — Enlarge Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 3,000 / 11,000 / 24,500

Metamagic — Extend Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 3,000 / 11,000 / 24,500

Metamagic — Maximize Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 14,000 / 54,000 / 121,500

Metamagic — Piercing Cold; Rod of Piercing Cold: +2 frost dagger (Frostburn-111); 3 uses/day, cost 21,430 / 29,300 / 42,800.  If you subtract the cost of a +2 frost dagger (18,302), the remaining cost is 3,128 / 10,998 / 24, 498 which looking at other metamagic rods should be 3,000 / 11,000 / 24,500 for the Piercing Cold feat.

Metamagic — Quicken Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 35,000 / 75,500 / 170,000

Metamagic — Reach Spell; Rod (MIC-165); 3 uses/day, cost 9,000 / 32,500 / 73,000

Metamagic — Sculpting Spell; Rod (MIC-165); 3 uses/day, cost 3,000 / 11,000 / 24,500

Metamagic — Silent Spell; Rod (DMG-236); 3 uses/day, cost 3,000 / 11,000 / 24,500

Metamagic — Substitution Spell; Rod (MIC-165); 3 uses/day, cost 2,700 / 10,500 / 24, 300

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 05:59:31 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 06:34:12 PM »
Oh, what the hey.  I flipped through the Epic Level Handbook.  This is a 3.0 book, but I don't have the 3.5 version.

Leadership (Warlord's Breastplate, 416,200gp, ELH-129) "allows the wearer to attract and lead a number of followers
as if he had the Leadership feat", but no cohort

Incite Rage (Epic feat, Chaosbringer, 4,025,350gp  ELH-134) +6 greataxe of chaotic power

Improved Combat Reflexes (Everwhirling Chain, 5,220,325gp, ELH-134) +4 defending everdancing spiked chain of speed

Positive Energy Aura (Epic feat, Final Death, 3,580,308gp ELH-134) +5 undead dread ghost touch morning star - only gain feat if wielder can turn undead

Deflect Arrows and Infinite Deflection (Epic feat, Quarterstaff of Alacrity, 462,600gp, ELH-134) +5 quarterstaff of speed

Trample, Ride-By Attack, Sprited Charge (Horseshoes of the Peerless Steed, 217,000gp, ELH-146)



Offline awaken_D_M_golem

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 7324
  • (un-) Amazingly Unproductive
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 06:44:31 PM »
A&EG, pg 139, lists some costs for adding things to intelligent items
  • Combat Reflexes - +10,000gp
  • Blind-fight - +10,000gp
  • Improved Initiative - +10,000gp
  • Mobility - +10,000gp
  • Sunder - +10,000gp
  • Expertise - +10,000gp
Ninja'd.

... getting 10 Ranks is better than +5 Skill Points from the Open Minded feat.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/intelligentItems.htm

Psychic Reformation level 4 psi power ... deserves special mention, for what to do with those feat slots.

Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle ... also deserves special mention.



edit --- the 504 Feats build thread, was somehow not lost to all the wotc board changeovers.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866566/The_True_Dilettante_-_New_Feat_Record_-_504_feats?pg=1

Very juicey.

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 06:46:37 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
avatar#3 , gravitational lensing edition ... I'm way on the other side of the universe but look like pretty rings

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 06:54:07 PM »
... getting 10 Ranks is better than +5 Skill Points from the Open Minded feat.

Be careful here.  The ITEM has 10 ranks.  It doesn't add +10 to whatever the wielder has.

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 07:00:33 PM »
From reading these, I don't know if these give the feat, or just the benefits of the feat.

Scorpion’s Resolve and Scorpion’s Sense (Scorpion Carapace, +32,000gp, Sandstorm-130) "The wearer gains the benefit of the Scorpion’s Resolve and Scorpion’s Sense feats" - special ability that can be added to armor

Sandskimmer (Sandstriding Ring, 5000gp, Sandstorm-132) "The wearer gains the benefit of the Sandskimmer feat"

Sand Camouflage (Cape of the Wastes, 30,000gp, Sandstorm-133) "Finally, the wearer gains the benefit of the Sand Camouflage feat"

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 07:20:14 PM »
You should add a "Misc" to your handbook.  Someone already mentioned the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle.  The Chameleon floating feat at 2nd level should also be mentioned.

The Stronghold Builder's Guide (pg 32) mentions a Training Area, Combat.  If you use the rules for training for feats in the DMG, has some benefits.  Can get the same benefits from a Training Area, Rogue.

Plane of Shadow Traits (Stronghold Builder's Guide, pg 122) - on the plane of shadow, spells with the shadow descriptor are cast is if prepared with the Maximize Spell feat, though they don't require a higher level spell slot.

Plane of Fire Traits (Stronghold-124) - on the plane of fire, spells and SLAs with the fire descriptor are both maximized and enlarged (at the relevant feats), but don't use higher slots

Astral Plane Traits (Stronghold-127) - all spells and SLAs may be employed as if improved by the Quicken Spell feat, but don't use higher slots

Plane of Water Traits (Stronghold-128) - spells and SLAs with the water descriptor are both extended and enlarged (at the relevant feats), but don't use higher slots.

Guess you should add a "Locations" section too :)

Another for misc:

Aptitude Weapon (ToB-148, +1 bonus) - lets you use feats for a particular type of weapon (eg Weapon Focus) with the aptitude weapon, even if it's a different type.







« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 07:27:39 PM by kitep »

Offline nijineko

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2275
  • two strange quarks short of a graviton....
    • View Profile
    • Ask me
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2012, 01:30:20 AM »
first, thank you all for your additions and comments. i had found some of the sources you mention, and had not gotten around to adding them yet. but i also see new suggestions. thank you.

now, some comments on my part:

extra spell does not duplicate or grant benefit of a feat. the function is slightly different. it functions more like a certain spell.

items which do not state "grants feat" or "grants benefit of a feat" in at least a variant of that wording in the description will go in the "otherwise" section.

if an item does not grant a feat, but only a class ability, it does not "technically" go here. if there is a list of class ability duplicating items, it would be a worthy addition in a second post in the handbook thread.

can someone list all the bite/were spells and the feats granted, please? never mind, found it. =D

someone please quote me the dark chaos shuffle? i do not have that source.

it is incorrect to state that the precise weapon ability never references the precise shot feat in any way. it does in fact reference it. namely they don't stack. thus i feel this falls into the category of "grants benefit".

mirror move source, anyone? found that, too. same source as bite spells, in fact.



okay it is late, and i have only gotten through some of your posts. i will catch up later. thanks again for the info, everyone!
http://crystalballsoft.com/cblite.html  The best dice roller on the planet, bar none. Read the FAQ to see why.

https://www.box.com/s/du6s5uysdwfony9dfd3p  The Official Complete Psionic Errata.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dbmkg8efcbn4eak/AABSjyTbZIEDdIWm0I_uVFkpa?dl=0 The Archive.

Offline snakeman830

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1047
  • BG's resident furry min/maxer
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2012, 09:53:01 AM »
Quote from: MIC
Precise
Price: +1 bonus
Property: Ranged weapon
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: Faint; (DC17) evocation
Activation:--

You can shoot or throw a precise weapon at an opponent engaged in melee without incurring the standard -4 penalty.  This benefit does not apply if you already have the Precise Shot feat.
It doesn't say it "grants" or gives "the benefit of" the feat at all.  The reason it doesn't apply if you have Precise Shot is because the feat removes the penalty, so this property no longer has anything to do (since it only removes a penalty and does not grant a bonus).  It is pretty clear on this.
"When life gives you lemons, fire them back at high velocity."

Offline Garryl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4303
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2012, 10:21:43 AM »
can someone list all the bite/were spells and the feats granted, please? never mind, found it. =D

Note that the Bite of Were-x spells were reprinted in Spell Compendium (mostly untouched, I think, except a generally level lower).

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2012, 11:56:17 AM »
Various spells and domains from the spell compendium

Bite of the Werebear (SpC-28) - gain benefits of the Blind-Fight and Power Attack Feats, Dur 1r/lvl
Bite of the Wereboar (SpC-28) - gain benefit of the Blind-Fight feat, Dur 1r/lvl
Bite of the Wererat (SpC-28) - gain benefit of the Weapon Finesse feat, Dur 1r/lvl
Bite of the Weretiger (SpC-28) - gain benefits of the Blind-Fight and Power Attack feats, Dur 1r/lvl
Bite of the Werewolf (SpC-29) - gain benefit of the Blind-Fight feat, Dur 1r/lvl

Dolorous Blow (SpC-70) - doubles crit range (like the Improved Critical feat); also auto-confirms crits; Dur 1 min/lvl
Favor of the Martyr (SpC-89) - gain benefits of Endurance feat; Dur 1min/lvl
Heroics (SpC-113) - any fighter feat, but must meet pre-reqs for that feat; Dur 10min/lvl
Nightstalker's Transformation (SpC-148) - Weapon Finesse; Dur 1r/lvl
Spikes (SpC-202) - doubles threat range (like Improved Crit)
Strategic Charge (SpC-210) - gain benefit of Mobility feat; Dur 1r/lvl

Weapon of Impact (SpC-237) - double threat range (like Improved Crit), bludgeoning weapon only; Dur 10min/lvl (basically Keen for bludgeoning weapons)

--------

Domains to go with the Domain Draught

Skill Focus(Craft Skill of your choice) - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Craft Domain (SpC-272)
Blind-Fight - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Darkness Domain (SpC-272)
Spell Focus (enchantment) - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Domination Domain (SpC-273)
Lightning Reflexes - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Drow Domain (SpC-273)
Great Fortitude - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Dwarf Domain (SpC-274)
Point Blank Shot - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Elf Domain (SpC-273)
Martial Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus for light hammer or warhammer (your choice) - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Metal Domain (Spc-276)
Extend Spell - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Planning Domain (SpC-278)
Scribe Scroll - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Rune Domain (SpC-279)
Improved Initiative - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Time Domain (SpC-281)
Extra Turning - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Undeath Domain (SpC-281)
Skill Focus (Appraise) - Domain Draught (MIC-156, 3300gp) - Wealth Domain (SpC-281)
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 12:10:51 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2012, 01:56:46 PM »
Quote
Any Metamagic Spell Trigger (Metamagic Wandgrip, 6000, CM) Allows effects of metamagic feats to be applied to a spell trigger item.

I think this is a poorly worded.  It doesn't duplicate the effect of any metamagic feat.  It duplicates the effects of one specific feat, namely the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat (CM-45), which itself applies to other metamagic feats (using charges instead of changing the spell level).  The Wandgrip also applies only to wands, not any spell trigger item (unlike the feat itself, which does apply to any spell trigger item).

I suggest:

Metamagic Spell Trigger 6000gp cost
Metamagic Wandgrip; usable only with wands (CM-133)

« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 02:31:01 PM by kitep »

Offline kitep

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 1859
  • Lookout World!
    • View Profile
Re: Handbook of the Exotic Practice of Feat Binding Discussion thread
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2012, 02:26:20 PM »
Spells

Towering Thunderhead (CM-120) - Any sonic or electricity spell of 7th level or lower cast within a towering thunderhead is automatically empowered (as if affected by the Empower Spell feat); Dur 3 rounds (of towering thunderhead, not of other spells cast)

---

Items that duplicate effects of a feat  (these are all optional spell components)

Extend Spell 100 gp * spell level cost
Angel Down (CM-135), abjuration spell only, used as additional material component

Heighten Spell 150 gp * original spell level cost
Devil's eye (CM-135), heightens only 1 level, divination spell only, used as additional material component

Heighten Spell 200 gp * original spell level cost
Dragon's Tear (CM-136), heightens only 1 level, fire or mind-affecting spell only, used as additional material component

Widen Spell 200 gp * spell level cost
Fairy Button (CM-136), illusion spell only, used as additional material component

Extend Spell 100 gp * spell level cost
Fairy Dust (CM-136), transmutation spell only, used as additional material component

Rapid Spell 300 gp * spell level cost
Golden Desert Honey (CM-136), summoning spells with a casting time of 1 round only, used as additional material component

Extend Spell 100 gp * spell level cost
Possibility Dust (CM-136), creation spell only, used as additional material component

Extend Spell 120 gp * spell level cost
Serpents' Tongue (CM-136), enchantment spell only, used as additional material component

Widen Spell 200 gp * spell level cost
Singing Shell (CM-136), spells with sonic descriptor only, used as additional material component

Enlarge Spell 200 gp * spell level cost
Singing Shell (CM-136), spells with sonic descriptor that don't affect an area only, used as additional material component

« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 02:29:32 PM by kitep »