Author Topic: [Discussion] FFA discussion thread  (Read 70593 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #20 on: July 12, 2012, 02:37:19 PM »
And Phae, I am still going to insist that Gold would be a better dragon choice since you get miss chance stacking, nausea and DPS out the wazoo (I can proc +damage abilities 7+ times per round rather easily).  But he's your dude and the stunning from blue dragon will be pretty awesome when you get there.
Well... for breath effects right now I have Sleep with a massive area, targetted Dispel, and a curse that makes them all reroll and take the worse for 3 rounds. Of course, I'd still have those if I went with a gold dragon instead of blue, because I don't even know any Shocking Current formulae... Hmm...

WOW... I just noticed that one of the 3rd level Searing Flames formulas inflicts a Dazed condition, which is awesome because almost nothing has immunity to it (unlike Sleep and Stun). YOINK! I'm going to be a fire breather!  :lol

Edit: OK... if I go with fire over electricity, I'll be retooling to mostly be more damage focused, with the exception of the Formula that dazes those who fail a Fort save.  Here's what that version of the character would look like:

(click to show/hide)

The main changes:

Loses:
The breath weapon dispel, breath weapon curse (roll twice, take worse for 3 rounds), and breath weapon sleep. (I'm dropping all Glimmering Moon formulae for now, and focusing entirely on Searing Flame. So I could also choose a different minor circle with this rebuild).

Gains:
1) a way to basically animate his breath for 5 rounds (like Flaming Sphere, but cooler and more damaging)
2)add +2d6 fire damage to an ally's attacks for 3 rounds
3) Daze anyone affected by his breath weapon who fails a fort save.

He'll also have a more balanced mix of major and minor formulae, allowing him to more easily refresh his maneuvers and formula every round. With the addition of the minor formula that sets an ally on fire, he'll even be able to do this during rounds when waiting for his breath weapon to recharge, which is something I'd neglected with the other build.

With both builds, for his maneuvers I'll just be spamming White Raven Tactics plus the occasional Crusader's Strike or Charging Minotaur.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:53:29 AM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline Zionpopsickle

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2012, 04:09:21 PM »
I think that Inflame is better than Embrace of the Flames.  Its still a swift action to use so you can refresh WRT even if it does nothing and when combined with Wildfire+AoO+teammates it can do retarded damage.  If you open up with an Inflamed Wildfire breath, you should be able to just spread the wildfire with your move, WRT to refresh a swift formula and then swift formula to refresh WRT every turn and just stand there AoOing with Thicket of blades+reflexes and still do something in the area of 4D6 per round to everything plus AoO damage +1D6 and have all allies do 1D6 extra per hit while WRTing them for more hits.  Then when your breath weapon refreshes you can hit everything with an Inflaming Daze so they can't get out of the fire.  And none of this effects your teammates because of your invocation. 

I will note that the daze from Impact still does not effect undead since its a fort save that doesn't effect objects, but undead really aren't that scary except for necropolitans and liches and if we run into a horde of zombies you do have the old standby of killing them with assloads of fire. 

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2012, 05:17:42 PM »
I think that Inflame is better than Embrace of the Flames.  Its still a swift action to use so you can refresh WRT even if it does nothing and when combined with Wildfire+AoO+teammates it can do retarded damage.
WRT is also a Swift action, though. So I can't use them on the same round. Also, I can use Embrace the Flames on the rounds I'm waiting for my breath weapon. Without it, I won't really have any formulas that I can use while waiting, which means I'll be able to spam fewer WRTs as I'll have to wait for my breath weapon before I can refresh WRT.

I guess what I really should do is find a spammable formula that I can use as a move or standard action, so I can use that to refresh WRT on the rounds I'm waiting for my BW.

Quote
If you open up with an Inflamed Wildfire breath, you should be able to just spread the wildfire with your move, WRT to refresh a swift formula and then swift formula to refresh WRT every turn and just stand there AoOing with Thicket of blades+reflexes and still do something in the area of 4D6 per round to everything plus AoO damage +1D6 and have all allies do 1D6 extra per hit while WRTing them for more hits.  Then when your breath weapon refreshes you can hit everything with an Inflaming Daze so they can't get out of the fire.  And none of this effects your teammates because of your invocation. 
I like where you're going with this.  :D I'll have to find a standard action formula to spam as part of this that I can use without by BW, though. Let me go dig around...

Edit: Damn... there aren't really any in Searing Flame. If I went with Nature's Balance as a secondary circle, instead of Glimmering Moon, I could pick up a standard action healing formula. The 3rd level one heals 3d6+ 1/SL, which isn't that bad.

Edit2: Grasp of Earth from Crushing Stone would give me a grapple attack I could use as a standard action.

Man... it's really hard to find formula that don't either modify your spellstrike attack, or are a swift action to use...  Will look more later.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 05:28:55 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline Zionpopsickle

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2012, 06:32:19 PM »
Oops, I forgot that WRT is not just awesome but ridiculously awesome. That said, I am not certain that it is really that necessary to refresh WRT every single round.  That initial damage burst is going to be huge and will inflict either mass CC or zoning.  Either major formula you choose will probably either end a battle or cause the opponent to have to drop BFC and regroup.  In the later case you will have time for the breath weapon to refresh or to just throw out some random swift to refresh WRT and then just WRT the next turn. 

From the looks of our team we should be capable of running hammer and anvil tactics really effectively with my BFC, your area denial, and the team of SDK and Abyss going double dragon on the opponents' ass with single target DPS.  Throw in Soro and his high DC save or loses to snipe trouble characters and it really isn't going to be necessary for you to have a total carry set up. 

That being said natural balance might be a better second circle since it has neutral energy heals (and it is rare to find heals that work on undead and constructs), a great buff and a lot of pretty nice BFC with entangles, caltrops, and roots and some good poison debuffs.  But really a ton of the secondary circles are really damn good for what you want to do so I think it depends a lot on what you want to define as your secondary role.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2012, 09:56:27 PM »
Crap... based on what DonQuixote said about classes stacking for IL, I think this guy won't be able to pick up both 3rd level maneuvers (including WRT) and 3rd level formulae. The Shield Guardian levels will only stack for IL or Shaper level, not both...

I think I'll go ahead and take a second level of Dragonheart Adept, rather than the 5th level of Shield Guardian, for now. I still won't be able to pick up both 3rd level maneuvers and formulae, but I'll be closer to being able to, and there are a ton of great things you get at 2nd level of that class. Now I'll have to choose whether I'd rather have WRT and Thicket of Blades, or 3rd level formulae. I am leaning strongly towards the former.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2012, 10:04:15 PM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2012, 08:19:19 AM »
SDK you were talking about being of Red Lotus affiliation and I'd like to point out that that would be a bad idea with me and Soro both being PA members and both having good sense motive checks.  I think light step does allow you to qualify for PA (or at least SLAs should qualify you if they don't SirP... :pout)

Yeah, that was oddly enough the other natural fit, since they *do* track renegade mages and the like. So sure.
I'd only have an affiliation score of 3 at the moment, but would have a score of 5 next level (BAB +5, Spellcraft 5 ranks). So a prospective member.
Hmm.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2012, 10:02:39 AM »
That being said natural balance might be a better second circle since it has neutral energy heals (and it is rare to find heals that work on undead and constructs), a great buff and a lot of pretty nice BFC with entangles, caltrops, and roots and some good poison debuffs.  But really a ton of the secondary circles are really damn good for what you want to do so I think it depends a lot on what you want to define as your secondary role.
Yeah, given that I have to choose between 3rd level maneuvers and 3rd level formulae (for now), I'm thinking of going with Natural Balance and Searing Flame for my circles and going with 3rd level maneuvers (for White Raven Tactics and Thicket of Blades) and only 2nd level Formulae. From Natural Balance, I'll choose Wild Growth (entangles all within 40' of my breath weapon targets) and Regrowth (heal ally for 2d6+1/SL). From Searing Flame, I guess I'll choose Inflame and Smoke Cloud, for a potential -3 to attacks and saves, plus 10% miss chance and a small damage add.

My actions will probably cycle something like this:
Round 1: Run/Charge to get in range of enemies, WRT on myself. Breathe with Wild Growth+Inflame or Smoke Cloud+Inflame (refreshing WRT), then move so that I have the maximum number of enemies threatened. 
Round 2a: Use WRT on an ally. Heal someone with Regrowth if needed, refreshing WRT. Use Thicket of Blades + Combat Reflexes to damage or lockdown (via Trip) enemies.
Round 2b: If no one needs healing... I don't have any formulae I can use. So I guess I'll just attack (maybe with a maneuver, but I doubt I'll have one readied). I could also activate my Embrace the Air formulae (granted by my armor), if I need flight. I don't know if this would refresh a maneuver or not... If so, there's another WRT.  ;)

Optional (all rounds): Use Thin the Ranks (move action) to knock enemies down and away from me, and take Attacks of Opportunity on them as they move.

After that, I'll use by breath weapon when it becomes available again, and basically cycle through the whole sequence. I'm not very happy about not having a decent formula to use as a standard action that doesn't involve by breath weapon, but it's hard to find good options, especially that are level 2 and below.

I'm debating on whether I should exchange Shaper's Stride for Stand Still. Stand Still will probably be a superior lockdown mechanic against most enemies, but having the ability to teleport for short distances is very handy... especially as part of another action. I guess I could get an Anklet of Translocation, but that will use up my swift action, which is actually really a great loss for me, due to being able to spam WRT every round...

If instead of Inflame, I took Embrace of the Flames, I could at least refresh WRT every other round while waiting for my breath weapon. So that is actually pretty tempting, I think.

Edit: Wound up going with Embrace the Flames, since they don't get a save vs. the extra damage (unlike Inflame), and I can use it when waiting for my BW to recharge if I want.

After looking over Perfect Freeze's formulae and aura though, I am tempted to change to that for my main circle...  :lmao It would make for some awesome BFC. I could cover a huge are of the ground in ice (via my breath weapon), forcing balance checks to move, and my allies could ignore it thanks to my aura (picked up at character level 8).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 11:36:05 AM by phaedrusxy »
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2012, 11:32:44 AM »
So basically, you want to have access to every circle.  Lol.
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2012, 11:36:57 AM »
So basically, you want to have access to every circle.  Lol.
It's just a really hard choice, which I think is a testament to how balanced against each other most of them are.
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2012, 04:29:34 PM »
Just keep them still so I can peg them from safety. :P
Hmm.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2012, 09:00:26 PM »
Where are the other two members of our team? I PM'd them both, and got a reply from TheAbyssDragon. I think they were both done with their characters, right?
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Offline TheAbyssDragon

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2012, 09:25:55 PM »
Where are the other two members of our team? I PM'd them both, and got a reply from TheAbyssDragon. I think they were both done with their characters, right?
Been a busy week for me. I'm about to repost my character in the team thread.

Also, yes I plan to be affiliated with the Dreaming Apothecary. The name alone was enough to sell me.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2012, 09:38:26 PM »
Where are the other two members of our team? I PM'd them both, and got a reply from TheAbyssDragon. I think they were both done with their characters, right?
Been a busy week for me. I'm about to repost my character in the team thread.

Also, yes I plan to be affiliated with the Dreaming Apothecary. The name alone was enough to sell me.
Great. I'm going to be one of their products. :D
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Offline Sohala

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2012, 03:04:37 PM »
SDK gave me the invite, and from what I could glean from the thread made this group sound like a great fit.

I saw a DHA, what else is there in this merry band?
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2012, 04:43:31 PM »
Hi Sohala. Welcome aboard. :D You can see the roster here. So far, we have a blue mage, a changeling wizard, an artificer/alchemist, a shield guardian/dragonheart adept, and a sniper.
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Offline skydragonknight

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2012, 06:35:08 PM »
My only request is that when you post to the roster you link to any homebrew. All I knew from your sheet was you looked like a Gishtank with some reconnaissance. :)
Hmm.

Offline Sohala

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2012, 06:52:18 PM »
-.-... I blame the lack of an S for not looking there.

Wow, looks like I won't need as many consumables as I thought

I cite all non-srd in the 'Other Notes' section.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2012, 07:03:46 PM »
Wait, this is the Final Fantasy All-Stars thread? I thought it was free-for-all discussion.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2012, 07:08:50 PM »
Wait, this is the Final Fantasy All-Stars thread? I thought it was free-for-all discussion.

Yes.  Final Fantasy All-Stars.  (OOC discussion is free-for-all.)
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Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: FFA discussion thread
« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2012, 11:47:30 PM »
Wait, this is the Final Fantasy All-Stars thread? I thought it was free-for-all discussion.

Yes.  Final Fantasy All-Stars.  (OOC discussion is free-for-all.)
I thought it was for the Future Farmers of America. ;)
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