Min/Max Boards
Gaming Discussion => D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder => You Break it You Buy it => Topic started by: Prime32 on November 06, 2011, 10:59:02 AM
-
The changeling wizard substitution levels from Races of Eberron let you shift your familiar between all its possible forms. There was talk about the cheesiness of combining this with Improved Familiar. However, you can go further.
Paladin 5/Wizard 5
High One Warrior-Wizard racial substitution level 5 (Champions of Valour Web Enhancement) lets you treat your special mount as a familiar. While it opens up more options, this isn't the trick. According to the DMG, a paladin with the Leadership feat may treat a cohort as his special mount for +2 LA.
That's right, your familiar can now turn into any character four levels below you at will. You can even turn it into another wizard and have it share spellbooks with you (though that would be a waste, since it has any spell you want, ready to cast).
-
Since we're stretching into the realm of fuzzy TO
Wizard 5*/Paladin 2/Knight of the Blue Moon 1**/Beastmaster 2/Halfling Outrider 10
*high one warrior wizard AND spontaneous divination ACFs (required for KotBM)
**City of Splendors: Waterdeep - grants a mount and lets you stack wizard levels if you don't have a familiar
feats: racial emulation, natural bond, whatever else is needed for prereqs
I don't think this works with the cohort/mount idea, but whatever.
You have a mighty morphing mount 18/animal 18/familiar 5, which gives you: +20 HD, +15 NA, +10 Str, +6 Dex, Int 9
-
Doesn't the sub level specify normal familiars?
-
Not quite.
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
-
So, using your familiar's full-round action, you can trade one character whose level is that of a normal cohort's cohort for another one?
What benefits does the little guy get for being your familiar and your special mount? All of the normal ones for being a familiar and a paladin's mount?
-
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard?
-
As Maat Mons has said, I don't think this works.
Both the High One Warrior-Wizard subistution and the Changeling Racial Subistution both swap out the 5th level bonus feat.
-
As Maat Mons has said, I don't think this works.
Both the High One Warrior-Wizard subistution and the Changeling Racial Subistution both swap out the 5th level bonus feat.
What if you took your 5th level of wizard at an odd numbered level? Then you'd have two bonus feats to trade! :P
-
Not quite.
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".
-
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
Emphasis mine.
To me, the use of the phrase "the wizard" rather than "a wizard" or "any wizard" suggests that the familiar changes to anything that its own master could have, which varies from individual to individual based on feats taken, unusual prestige class features, possibly caster level and/or BAB, alignment in some cases, maybe other factors.
Trading the same ability away twice doesn't seem kosher at all, though. Once you've sacrificed it the first time you no longer have it to trade for more.
-
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard?
How has this thread gone so long without anyone noticing that? :(
Any other way to combine your familiar with something else? Familiar/animal companion would work.
EDIT: Arcane hierophant does not work, since it just makes your animal companion more like a familiar.
-
I'm not as familiar with the haunt shift rules as I probably should be. Anything interesting happen to the item when a haunting presence's form changes? Might be some potential with a stitched flesh familiar if so.
-
I suppose a god could abuse this to hell with its ability to designate anything as its familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineRanksAndPowers.htm#familiar), but by that point... you're a freaking god.
-
Would it be possible as an illithid savant? Just eat two delicious wizard-brains.
-
Anything is possible with Illithid Savant. It's pun pun the class. Just a lot more downtime needed.
-
Not quite.
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".
This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.
-
Not quite.
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".
This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.
Why? If he can already have a Dragon as a familiar?
-
(Sorcerer Simple Variant/Morphic Familiar)Wizard 5/Cleric 3/Prestige Paladin 1/Arcane Hierophant X
Get your hands on Favored Enemy and Track, and take Devoted Tracker.
Your Familiar is now an Animal Companion and a Special Mount as well. Sure, they aren't GOOD, but it's something to work with.
-
You're taking two different substitution levels for the 5th level of wizard?
Yeah, I was going to say, that has to be breaking some barrier on that kind of shenanigans.
-
Not quite.
Morphic Familiar (Su): At 5th level, a changeling wizard's familiar gains the ability to alter its form on command. As a full-round action, the familiar can change its form to that of any creature that the wizard could normally have as a familiar. The wizard gains the new benefit of the familiar while losing the previous benefit. If the changeling wizard does not have a familiar, this ability has no effect until he gains one.
The problem I have is with the phrase "normally have as a familiar".
This. The wording implies that if the PC in question could have a Dragon as a familiar, then he could turn his cat into a Dragon as a Full-round. That's bullshit, cheesy, easily abused bullshit and I love it.
Reminds me of Lunar Silver Star Story...
-
How about Item familiar?
I mean, as long as you're a Wizard... :sofa
This could get crazy with items that have charges... it can even be done in e6
EDIT: wait, at 7th level, "It gains Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores."; so does that mean the items are 'creatures'? Now you can have two Items, or two Dragons or two Special Mount-Familiars or whatever at any given time?
-
Any other way to combine your familiar with something else? Familiar/animal companion would work.
EDIT: Arcane hierophant does not work, since it just makes your animal companion more like a familiar.
Actually, the Arcane hierophant's animal companion gets the special abilities that his familiar would get. Though, considering the wording, this is kind of stretching it.