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Handbooks & Resources => Handbook Discussion => Topic started by: Nanshork on December 09, 2011, 12:53:57 AM

Title: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 09, 2011, 12:53:57 AM
The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide  (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=607)needs some input.

The animals list in the guide wasn't compiled by me, and I (and any helpful boardmembers) need to go through it and remove all of the herbivores. 

It could also use some fleshing out in the Feats/Items/Prestige Classes department.

Any other input/suggestions/angry rants are also acceptable.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: RedWarlock on December 09, 2011, 02:55:01 AM
Cut these, they're all herbivores:

(medium)
o   Brixashulty (RoW); Str +2, Dex +6, Con +6; 3 NA; Endurance; Knockback
o   Caribou (Frb); Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2; 3 NA; Endurance
o   Dinosaur, Fastieth (ECS); Str +4, Dex +2, Con +2; 3 NA; Run
o   Pony (MM1); Str +2, Dex +2, Con +2; 2 NA; Endurance
o   Pony, War (MM1); Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4; 2 NA; Endurance
o   Dinosaur, Protoceratops (Snd); Str +6, Con +8; 8 NA; Alertness, Endurance; Powerful Charge
(large)
o   Camel (MM1); Str +8, Dex +6, Con +4; 1 NA; Alertness, Endurance
o   Camel, Dromedary (Snd); Str +8, Dex +6, Con +4; 1 NA; Alertness, Endurance
o   Camel, Two-Humped (Snd); Str +8, Dex +6, Con +6; 2 NA; Alertness, Endurance
o   Horse, Heavy (MM1); Str +6, Dex +2, Con +4; 3 NA; Endurance, Run
o   Horse, Light (MM1); Str +4, Dex +2, Con +4; 3 NA; Endurance, Run
o   Warhorse, Light (MM1); Str +6, Dex +2, Con +6; 4 NA; Endurance, Run
o   Camel (Snd); Str +8, Dex +6, Con +8; 4 NA; Alertness, Endurance
o   Warhorse, Heavy (MM1); Str +8, Dex +2, Con +6; 4 NA; Endurance, Run
o   Bison (MM1); Str +12, Con +6; 4 NA; Alertness, Endurance; Stampede
o   Megaloceros (Frb); Str +10, Dex +2, Con +6; 4 NA; Alertness, Endurance, Run; Improved grab, stampede, toss
o   Dire Horse (MM2); Str +12, Dex +2, Con +12; 6 NA; Endurance, Run, Toughness
o   Hippopotamus (Snd); Str +14, Con +10; 6 NA; Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Power Attack
o   Rhinoceros (MM1); Str +16, Con +10; 7 NA; Alertness, Endurance, Imp NA (Gore); Powerful charge
o   Dinosaur, Diprotodon (Snd); Str +16, Con +8; 5 NA; Alertness, Imp Nat Atk (claw), Iron Will, Run
o   Glyptodon (Frb); Str +10, Con +6; 10 NA; Alertness, Imp Nat Atk (tail), Power Attack, Toughness; Augmented critical, trample
(huge)
o   Dinosaur, Ankylosaurus (MM2); Str +18, Con +16; 16 NA; Alertness, Great Fortitude, Toughness x2; Trample
o   Elephant (MM1); Str +20, Con +10; 7 NA; Alertness, Endurance, Iron Will, Skill Focus (Listen); Trample
o   Dire Elk (MM2); Str +14, Con +10; 7 NA; Alertness, Diehard, Endurance, Power Attack, Toughness; Trample
o   Megatherium (FF); Str +14, Dex +2, Con +14; 15 NA; Alertness, Great Fortitude, Imp Crit (claw), Power Attack, Wpn Focus (claw); Imp grab, pin down, trample
o   Mammoth, Wooly (Frb); Str +24, Con +14; 10 NA; Alertness, Endurance, Imp Bull Rush, Multiattack, Power Attack, Imp grab, toss, trample
o   Mastadon (MM3); Str +22, Con +12; 8 NA; Alertness, Endurance, INA (gore/slam), Iron Will, Toughness; Trample
o   Mastadon, Grizzly (MM2); Str +24, Con +12; 8 NA; Alertness, Endurance, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack, Toughness x2; Trample


Also, doublecheck your sizes and stats for the Megaraptor and Deinonychus, they're Large and Medium, respectively. (It's in the errata, and they're listed that way on the d20srd.org.)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 09, 2011, 04:17:27 AM
Herbivores have been cut and the two mentioned dinosaurs have been slotted into their correct size categories. 

Thank you RedWarlock, that was much appreciated.   :D
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Thurbane on December 19, 2011, 08:33:31 PM
Hey, nice guide.  :clap

Two things I thought worth pointing out in the race section:

Catfolk have +4 Dex and +2 Cha, not +4 Dex and +4 Cha as listed.

Also, 1/2 Ogres (the RoD version) seem to be missing from the ECL 3 race list (Large Giant, +2 LA).

Cheers - T
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 19, 2011, 08:56:15 PM
Adjustments have been made, thanks for catching those.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: phaedrusxy on December 19, 2011, 09:11:34 PM
Quote
Make the animal the same size as you. This will let you wear the same armor and use the same weapons in your hybrid form.
This is based on faulty rules interpretation. Lycanthropes use the Alternate Form (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#alternateForm) rules for their shape-changing, which explicity say:
Quote
If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size.
It is mentioned several times in the guide that you should choose an animal form the same size as your base form, but I couldn't disagree more, really. Natural reach is a huge advantage, and only gets better if you add a reach weapon. So this stuff should really be removed from the guide. Maybe it was based on the 3.0 rules or something? Or early 3.5, before errata? I don't know. Whatever the reason, it is bad advice based on an erroneous rules assumption.

And as far as animal hit dice, while yes it is generally in your best interest to minimize them, if the DM will allow you to advance them according to the animal's stat block, there can be a huge advantage to doing so. For example, going from 3 to 4 hit dice on a dire badger gets you [urlhttp://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases=]a size increase[/url] and doesn't cost you a point of BAB. This translates into +8 strength, +4 con, and +2 natural armor at the cost of -2 dex and -1 attack/AC. So it is well worth it. I am not sure if it is RAW-legal, though.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 19, 2011, 09:40:32 PM
The Alternate Form information is pre-errata.  Alternate Form got erratad when Shapechange did fifty-thousand times.  I'll change that.

Also, I'm of the opinion that advancing animal hit dice isn't RAW-legal. 
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: snakeman830 on December 23, 2011, 04:53:54 PM
The Alternate Form information is pre-errata.  Alternate Form got erratad when Shapechange did fifty-thousand times.  I'll change that.
Given that the lycanthrope Alternate Form mentions that specifically, I believe it is an exception to the normal rule.  Thus, the original information is still correct.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 23, 2011, 05:11:49 PM
I've finally gotten off my lazy ass and looked this up for myself.  The official MM errata completely replaces the sentence in the MM that talks about how gear isn't affected, and it also added that gear is affected in the Alternate Form ability in general.  D20srd.org has the right of it, the original information was incorrect due to errata.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: EjoThims on December 24, 2011, 07:53:15 PM
Additionally: "The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian's rage class feature)."  The natural armor isn't a problem since the Lycanthropy template specifically overrides that, but the extraordinary special attacks section is something to remember.

Just wanted to call out that this means that other templates on the lycanthrope (feral was a spectacular one) are now pretty much useless.  :banghead
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: snakeman830 on December 25, 2011, 12:44:33 PM
Might be worth noting that a lycanthrope that is wild-shaped can use their alternate form ability, thus granting far higher stats than normal for your hybrid form (usually).
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 02, 2012, 03:08:43 PM
Perhaps we could create a list of the best animals for lycanthropy and why they are the best (or would that belong in a separate thread?). So far I've got the nifern (poison that paralyzes your opponent, blindsight, great stats, and only 2hd).

In the feats section you may want to add the poison feats from savage species and serpent kingdoms. Deadly spittle in particular is an awesome feat for a nifern because it allows you to spray your spit in a 15-foot cone-shaped burst.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2012, 04:34:14 PM
The issue is that the hybrid form doesn't get poison because that's a special attack.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 02, 2012, 04:39:40 PM
The issue is that the hybrid form doesn't get poison because that's a special attack.

That's what black blood hunter is for ;).
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 02, 2012, 04:45:39 PM
The issue is that the hybrid form doesn't get poison because that's a special attack.

That's what black blood hunter is for ;).

True, but I don't want to put in feats that first require five levels of a campaign specific prestige class to use effectively.

If you want to make an analysis of what animals are best feel free, I'll even make a link to it in my guide.  However, the guide is for more general feat/item/whatever advice that all lycanthropes qualify for rather than specific builds.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: gorfnab on September 03, 2012, 01:14:38 AM
An explanation of the Control Shape skill would be nice.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 03, 2012, 11:03:26 AM
An explanation of the Control Shape skill would be nice.

What would you like me to say about it?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Risada on September 03, 2012, 11:06:23 AM
An explanation of the Control Shape skill would be nice.

You mean the rules for it? They're here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm), right by the Lycanthrope entry in the SRD. Just scroll down a little and you will find it.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 03, 2012, 11:40:27 AM
Is there any reason you couldn't take the otherworldly feat (or any other method that changes your type to outsider) thus making your animal hd much better?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 03, 2012, 12:16:59 PM
Is there any reason you couldn't take the otherworldly feat (or any other method that changes your type to outsider) thus making your animal hd much better?

Because changing your type won't affect your animal HD.  To quote the template:
Quote
Hit Dice and Hit Points: Same as the base creature plus those of the base animal. To calculate total hit points, apply Constitution modifiers according to the score the lycanthrope has in each form.

Changing your type doesn't change the type of the base animal.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 03, 2012, 05:08:45 PM
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 03, 2012, 05:43:53 PM
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization. 
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 03, 2012, 06:21:44 PM
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization.

Do you think that the investment needed for control shape and 5 less DR outweighes the one less LA from using afflicted instead of natural lycanthropy?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 03, 2012, 06:45:43 PM
Other than the need for control shape, afflicted lycanthrope seems better than natural (5/silver DR instead of 10 isn't a big deal). Is there any way to increase your ranks until you can autosucceed on the skill check with minimal investment? autosucceeding 20 is the goal but 25 would be nice too.

It is just like any other skill, there is no Control Shape specific skill optimization.

Do you think that the investment needed for control shape and 5 less DR outweighes the one less LA from using afflicted instead of natural lycanthropy?

I prefer natural lycanthropy because reliably hitting a DC 25 skill check can be difficult without shenanigans, but that's my personal opinion.  Afflicted Lycanthropes are probably more optimal just as long as you can Control Shape reliably.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 04, 2012, 01:03:48 PM
You know...tome of battle classes mesh well with lycanthropes because the animal hit dice give you half progression. You may want to put that into your guide.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 04, 2012, 02:49:27 PM
You know...tome of battle classes mesh well with lycanthropes because the animal hit dice give you half progression. You may want to put that into your guide.

I'm iffy on this one.  I see that as obvious, but I know ToB and have obviously spent too much time thinking about these guys.

I'd like some input from other people who read this.  Thoughts?  Anything besides ToB that would work well with the LA and animal HD?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 04, 2012, 04:06:56 PM
I'm iffy on this one.  I see that as obvious, but I know ToB and have obviously spent too much time thinking about these guys.

I'd like some input from other people who read this.  Thoughts?  Anything besides ToB that would work well with the LA and animal HD?
It is likely not obvious for many people.

Ardent with practiced manifester.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 04, 2012, 04:57:29 PM
As snakeman830 said on the previous page, a character that is wildshaped can still use alternate form so wildshape ranger ( druid would be a waste of potential) could be a nice choice.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 04, 2012, 07:49:31 PM
Alright, a section about base classes has been created.   :)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: gorfnab on September 05, 2012, 11:37:45 PM
Just found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254888) over on GitP.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 06, 2012, 10:11:19 AM
Just found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=254888) over on GitP.

He made a thread over here too, it is linked in the top section of the guide itself.   :p
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 06, 2012, 06:31:57 PM
Do werecreatures whose animals have extra limbs (like octopusses), get those extra limbs in hybrid form?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: EjoThims on September 06, 2012, 07:04:55 PM
Do werecreatures whose animals have extra limbs (like octopusses), get those extra limbs in hybrid form?

The rules do not mention either way how the physical form of the hybrid form is determined, only that it gains two claws and a bite (regardless of the natural attacks possessed by the animal).

So it's completely up in the air, as form is never actually defined in the DnD rules...

Fusion suffers this same dilemma.  :twitch
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 06, 2012, 07:11:33 PM
Pretty much.  A were-octopus has two claw and one bite attack. 
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 07, 2012, 02:21:19 PM
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.  Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: EjoThims on September 07, 2012, 06:40:31 PM
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.

Those would be the reasons...

Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.

This is the one drawback, but most builds will benefit more from the above than from their animal abilities.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 07, 2012, 06:46:05 PM
Why do you say in the guide that combat should be preformed in hybrid form? The only advantages I see are the ability to wield weapons (which can be replicated in animal form with a mouthpick weapon), cheaper armor, and not having to take surrogate spellcasting for if you want to cast spells.

Those would be the reasons...

Plus you are giving up all the tasty special abilties of the animal unless you take 5 levels of a campaign setting specific Prc.

This is the one drawback, but most builds will benefit more from the above than from their animal abilities.

Most lycanthrope builds won't cast spells though (and if they do than one feat isn't much) and it's totally possible to make a natural attack build that equal or almost equal to a weapon using build. That leaves cheaper armor...

I acknowledge that hybrid form is useful but when I read the guide when I was just getting into dnd I got the impression that hybrid form was the only form that mattered. Perhaps Nanshork could put in a little note comparing the two forms?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: EjoThims on September 07, 2012, 06:55:26 PM
A comparison would be useful, yes, but as many animals have more attacks in Hybrid form than animal, even natural attack builds often will be better in Hybrid form.

it also makes most gear (not just armor) more convenient, and leaves open the possibility of NA+weapon builds.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 07, 2012, 07:49:35 PM
I side with Ejo on this.  Gear, natural attacks + weapon, and the fact that hybrid is the larger of the two forms (most of the time you'll want a small form because they have less animal HD).
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on September 07, 2012, 09:52:45 PM
I side with Ejo on this.  Gear, natural attacks + weapon, and the fact that hybrid is the larger of the two forms (most of the time you'll want a small form because they have less animal HD).

Whoops, forgot about the claws and bite hybrid form gives you as well as the (sometimes) size increase.

When looking at all the advantages I'll have to concede the point.

EDIT: How do fractional HD (rat and such) work with the lycanthrope template?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: snakeman830 on September 11, 2012, 09:36:50 AM
Fractional HD get rounded up to 1 HD for any rules refrencing HD.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on March 11, 2013, 11:46:00 PM
Why do you believe that advancing the animal hitdice isn't RAW legal Nanshork?
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 12, 2013, 10:27:22 AM
Because aside from the monster advancement classes that exist there is no RAW way to level up in your "race".  There are no rules for a player taking racial HD instead of class levels.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on March 14, 2013, 02:03:23 PM
There are playable monster races in the various MM that, under the "Advancement" section, list HD and not class(es).  So it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility, in my opinion.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 14, 2013, 02:09:18 PM
There are playable monster races in the various MM that, under the "Advancement" section, list HD and not class(es).  So it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility, in my opinion.

My personal opinion is that it isn't RAW, but as with everything else in the end it is up to the DM.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: snakeman830 on March 15, 2013, 08:14:28 PM
Couple of things I noticed:

1. on Warshaper, it says the bonus Constitution does not give you more hit points.  This is false as this bonus constitution is not from the Alternate Form ability, but from a class feature that applies whenever you change shape (no matter how said change is achieved).

2. While mentioning Wild Shape and Alternate Form, you should reverse the order that you present the abilities.  Using Wild Shape while in Alternate Form is really no different than using Wild Shape normally.  Using Alternate Form while in Wild Shape is a VERY different animal (why yes, I am a manbearboar, shall I rip your face off now?)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 15, 2013, 08:31:41 PM
1 - After close reading, you are correct.  Fixed.

2 - I don't know much about wild shaping and haven't played a druid that does it since 2nd edition.  I'll take your word for it and have adjusted the wording.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: 123456789blaaa on April 08, 2013, 01:32:34 PM
I was rereading the Dragonmark Handbook when I came across this little gem:

Quote
Mark of Twelve Moons
( Dragonmarked, p. 142)
[General]

Your dragonmark has mysterious ties to one of Eberron's twelve moons.

Prerequisite

Any true lesser, greater, or Siberys dragonmark,

Benefit

You gain a +1 inherent bonus to one ability score, chosen according to the type of dragonmark you possess.
<snip> 
In addition, if you are an afflicted lycanthrope, you gain a +10 bonus on Control Shape checks.

As a bonus, the two feats you have to get can actually be nice for a non-caster.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 08, 2013, 02:08:05 PM
Very nice!  This has been added.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: wotmaniac on May 11, 2014, 02:03:15 PM
I was giving this a once-over, and noticed the absence of Blacktooth Lycanthropy (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/lycanthrope.shtml) (you'll have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page; also found in Dungeon Mag 129).

That same issue also has the Chosen of Malar template -- not really anything to do with lycanthropy except that Malar happens to be the god of lycanthropes. (probably doesn't warrant being mentioned in the guide)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 11, 2014, 04:43:33 PM
I was giving this a once-over, and noticed the absence of Blacktooth Lycanthropy (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/lycanthrope.shtml) (you'll have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page; also found in Dungeon Mag 129).

That same issue also has the Chosen of Malar template -- not really anything to do with lycanthropy except that Malar happens to be the god of lycanthropes. (probably doesn't warrant being mentioned in the guide)

I've never seen that template before.

Holy crap, LA+5?  Even for the benefits it gets that isn't worth it.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 11, 2014, 05:22:05 PM
I didn't go through all of this, but the Brixashulty is an omnivore. Its implied in some fluff
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 11, 2014, 06:15:58 PM
I didn't go through all of this, but the Brixashulty is an omnivore. Its implied in some fluff

I don't see "can eat almost anything organic" as qualifying it as truly an omnivore.  Goats eat a hell of a lot of organic material and they aren't omnivores.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 11, 2014, 08:31:07 PM
They eat the bugs on their lettuce  :P I guess it is a little of a stretch
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 11, 2014, 10:57:57 PM
They eat the bugs on their lettuce  :P I guess it is a little of a stretch

Eating bugs on lettuce doesn't count.   :lmao
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: wotmaniac on May 12, 2014, 02:14:17 AM
I was giving this a once-over, and noticed the absence of Blacktooth Lycanthropy (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/lycanthrope.shtml) (you'll have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page; also found in Dungeon Mag 129).

That same issue also has the Chosen of Malar template -- not really anything to do with lycanthropy except that Malar happens to be the god of lycanthropes. (probably doesn't warrant being mentioned in the guide)

I've never seen that template before.

Holy crap, LA+5?  Even for the benefits it gets that isn't worth it.
Keep your pants on there -- I certainly never made any claims as to its viability.   :P
I simply mentioned it for completeness.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 12, 2014, 10:49:29 AM
I was giving this a once-over, and noticed the absence of Blacktooth Lycanthropy (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/lycanthrope.shtml) (you'll have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page; also found in Dungeon Mag 129).

That same issue also has the Chosen of Malar template -- not really anything to do with lycanthropy except that Malar happens to be the god of lycanthropes. (probably doesn't warrant being mentioned in the guide)

I've never seen that template before.

Holy crap, LA+5?  Even for the benefits it gets that isn't worth it.
Keep your pants on there -- I certainly never made any claims as to its viability.   :P
I simply mentioned it for completeness.

I know, I was just being exclamatory.

I'll try and remember to add it in when I've got time.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: wotmaniac on May 13, 2014, 12:44:59 AM
I'll be here holding my breath.   :p
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 13, 2014, 10:27:23 AM
Yeah yeah, I'm lazy and forgetful and check the board when I'm at work and can't do things like update my handbooks.   :P
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: wotmaniac on May 14, 2014, 12:57:01 AM
That makes 2 of us.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 14, 2014, 10:13:05 PM
Guide has been updated.   :)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on May 26, 2014, 06:42:50 PM
Fractional HD get rounded up to 1 HD for any rules refrencing HD.
Of course advancement drops the fraction, but concerning lycanthropes I think you mean that a fractional HD animal still add 1 RHD to the base creature. If that is what you are saying, can I get a rules quote? Aside from going fractional to integer, normal DnD math is to round down.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Pellanor on July 09, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
Hey. I just came across this thread and it's great to see that the spreadsheet I made all those years ago is still being used. Let me know if you want any updates done to it.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2014, 03:33:23 PM
Hey. I just came across this thread and it's great to see that the spreadsheet I made all those years ago is still being used. Let me know if you want any updates done to it.

If you want to update it feel free, I'm not sure what you would do with it though.   :)
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 04, 2017, 04:09:43 PM
The guide has been revamped and now has pretty tables!

It's possible I made some copy-paste errors but I think everything is okay.  I dropped the information on special attacks for the animals since normally those aren't gained.

I'm also including information on the vermin version of lycanthropy but right now I am not motivated enough to dig through all the books looking for vermin.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on July 11, 2017, 01:23:05 PM
For vermin, the best two I've found for stats and abilities are either the Knell Beetle (MMIII) or the Giant Cockroach (Und).  Though the Leechwalker (MMII) can also be decent in the right build.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 11, 2017, 11:56:58 PM
I personally liked the Bonespear, but you don't like the Fiend Folio...
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 12, 2017, 10:28:33 AM
I personally liked the Bonespear, but you don't like the Fiend Folio...

I don't like the Fiend Folio?   :???
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on July 12, 2017, 12:39:09 PM
That was directed at me.  Zook is speaking from personal experience from my old PvP arena.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 12, 2017, 12:42:42 PM
That was directed at me.  Zook is speaking from personal experience from my old PvP arena.

Ahh, okay.  That makes more sense.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 12, 2017, 04:07:18 PM
Ith has a severe dislike for fiends and refused to allow them or their books (even though FF wasn't) in the ridiculously high op PVP Gestalt Monster Arena. This was despite who knows how many of us bugged him (myself, probably a half dozen times). I do appreciate his steadfastness in not giving in.

If you include Pathfinder stuff, they just came out with a bug-lycanthropy in Bestiary 6.
With the addition of that.... you can play a were-starfish or give people were-crabs.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 12, 2017, 04:12:44 PM
Let me finish 3.5 before I look into dealing with Pathfinder templates.   :P


Right now I just don't know where to start on the vermin list, I want something comprehensive like the animal list.  I'm not sure where to find that without digging through all the books myself.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 12, 2017, 04:25:24 PM
Q --- were Sheep ever officially statted , because PLZ likes the Were-Sheep commoner flaw (I do too).
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 12, 2017, 04:38:09 PM
Q --- were Sheep ever officially statted , because PLZ likes the Were-Sheep commoner flaw (I do too).

Sheep aren't allowed as a base animal for the Lycanthropy template because they are herbivores.  The commoner flaw is the only legal way to be a were-sheep.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 13, 2017, 09:07:27 PM
The halfling pseudo-sheep are stated as omnivores
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: PlzBreakMyCampaign on July 18, 2017, 11:21:27 AM
The halfling pseudo-sheep are stated as omnivores
Way ahead of you  :cool

The "secret sauce" about weresheep is to be delicious.
Title: Re: The Consolidated Lycanthropy Guide Discussion Thread
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on July 20, 2017, 04:53:55 PM
Would the easiest way to deal with it, be :
call it a 1/2HD animal, to be immediately overwritten by the Commoner 1,
small, so you get any stat bonus at all,
1 hp of damage to it's "attack" -1 via str of 8,
no weapon finesse so to maintain the "harmless" word,
maybe  Endurance as a bonus feat, maybe.