Fire Seeds and Empower Spell

[Kethrian]

Since Fire Seeds does have a random variable in it (damage), can it be applied to the number of holly berry bombs it creates?  While that is not a random amount, it is still a variable one, and the feat does say that all variable numeric effects are increased by one-half.  The only mention of random is for whether the feat can be applied to the spell.  Or is there errata I haven't seen?

[SneeR]

Numbers based on your level are not variable. If that were the case, caster level would be a variable number.

[Kethrian]

In this instance though, the number of berries you create can be anywhere from 1 to 8, not a set number.  It is not level-dependent except for adding CL to the 1d8 damage each berry does.

[Jackinthegreen]

This reminds me of a discussion on Spiritual Weapon and Empowerment I got into.  My topic on the official WotC boards can be found here.

In short, the basis of the discussion is that Empower Spell has a specific example in the PHB that specifies the effect the feat has on Magic Missile.  The example states that MM benefits from it by doing (1d4 + 1) x 1.5 damage.  Notice how it specifically mentions the +1 in there, which would mean spells specifically written with d + X get the benefit of Empower to the full dice description.  Spiritual Weapon, to continue the example, would do (1d8 + 1/3 CL) x 1.5 damage per hit.

In the case of the berries, the damage would seem to follow in Spiritual Weapon's footsteps.

[Kethrian]

Yes, all the damage would be empowered so that each berry would do (1d8 + CL) x 1.5.  An interesting part of your argument would now make me ask, would Warmage Edge get empowered on top of that?  I believe that it would not be, because it isn't an integral part of the spell, but is instead tacked on after the fact, making the equation (1d8 + CL) x 1.5 + WE, and not (1d8 + CL + WE) x 1.5.

Still, even knowing all this, I am still unsure whether the 1-8 berries the spell creates would get empowered so that you could get upwards of 12 berries in an empowered casting.

[Jackinthegreen]

The most balanced and likely conclusion with Empower is it affects only the variable(s) mentioned specifically in the spell/power.  There was also a Claws of the Beast discussion going on, and the interpretation eventually came to be that the claws themselves could be empowered, but since only the base damage is listed then nothing else during the attack is empowered (like a Strength bonus on damage).  Crits would function like normal with an extra dice roll as appropriate, but the claws would still get their 1.5 multiplier before adding on other things.

If the spell specifies 1d8 berries then I'd say it's pretty much the same as specifying 1d8 targets, which Empower would work on.

[Optimator]

Is Fire Seeds in a cleric domain?

[Mooncrow]

Is Fire Seeds in a cleric domain?

Yes, in both the Sun and Fire domain as a 6th level spell, as well as the druid list.

[Kethrian]

It's also on the warmage spell list, 6th level.

[weenog]

If you can find a DM that will swallow the idea of an adjustable number as a variable numeric suitable for Empower, you need to find a melee weaponlike spell and a good BAB (or divine power), and start power attacking with it.

It needs to be an energy weaponlike spell of some kind, so you can energy admix it and apply your empowered power attack twice.