The Basileus is dead!

[littha]

tl:dr-There's a reason why there's no renowed viking philosophers/scribes/doctors/philosophers/libraries. Their religion explicitly said following any of those paths would land you out of paradise.

I think it is probably less to do with their religion and more to do with the fact that as an oral culture thay didnt really have most of those things.

They did have a respect for Skalds (Poets/Storytellers), Beekeepers, Blacksmiths and Jewelers/Goldsmiths because of the integeral parts that they played in their society.

[Rekmond]

tl:dr-There's a reason why there's no renowed viking philosophers/scribes/doctors/philosophers/libraries. Their religion explicitly said following any of those paths would land you out of paradise.

I think it is probably less to do with their religion and more to do with the fact that as an oral culture thay didnt really have most of those things.

They did have a respect for Skalds (Poets/Storytellers), Beekeepers, Blacksmiths and Jewelers/Goldsmiths because of the integeral parts that they played in their society.

And Navigators, can't find a proper village to pillage otherwise.

[SorO_Lost]

Point is, 100% of vikings who die coated in human blood end up going to viking paradise, either Odin's or Freyja's. It's a win-win scenario if you're a bloodthirsty psycopath! But kinda sucks if you're a male who tried to live a peaceful life.

You think Valhalla is heaven because "free beer!" while ignoring it's nothing more than a consolidation prize.

It also carries the fine print of the battle being honorable. Dishonorable or cowardly deaths landed you in Hel so the fight must have been warranted. It pretty much breaks down to an dishonorable viking goes to Hel, an honorable one goes to Helgafjell, and doesn't-matter-died-for-good-reasons could go to Folkvangr or Valhalla.

And Valhalla is in all reality fully intended for young men with far too much to prove that would want nothing more than a second chance and the pat on the back claim of being awesome enough to fight along side the All-Father but for everyone else it'd suck. Vikings had a high sense of honor and respect particularly to their own clansmen and family but Valhalla isn't co-ed so you could never see your wife or daughters again. In fact, it's equally considerable that it's a place where you wait to brutally die a second time and the people sent there will spend every single minute of every single day in expectation of being called out at an given time to march out and enter what every veteran describes as hell. Free beer is the only positive benefit of it and Valhalla is actually a pretty shitty place to go when you die. But it's better than Hel so there's that.

Hence the solstice of death on the battlefield having two outcomes, if an older married man involved with his kids died on the field he still has a chance to reunite with them. Religion is about hope and grievance, and Valhalla is the comfort for the terrible bastards who mange to fight for the right reasons and their parents. Sort of like no matter how terrible you are if you blow your self up to harm the infidels you land free sex.

[Dr_emperor]

This isn't Mythic Sagas this IS SPARTA!!

Sorry had to do that please reread first post this is the character generation we are going to use.  Can we stop the Nordic religion debate and take it to off topic guys.

Fair warning.  I haven't DM'd in a little while. I'm open to core and homebrew, but these are the old character optimization boards and my friends weren't that great at that even when I was DMing.  So we may need to adjust during play.  That may include me giving other party members an upgrade it may mean toning some things down.

We are going to do a 6th level gestalt game.
I will be allowing 1 homebrew class per person at most.
32 point by
 3/4 hit die so d4=3 d6=5 d8=6 d10=7 d12=8 max at first
Pathfinders condensed skill list.  So don't add flight, but the skills they removed were good choices.

The Greek's had a thing for history and uniting themselves to legends some of the cities Alexander founded  payed poets to write poems attaching there founding or area to legend.  I'd prefer if the characters generated were linked to some legend or deity.  As said before any hero/diety/historical character out of Greek/Egyptian/Persian myth would be great.  If you instead pulled inspiration from outside Alexandros empire and linked me to a Phoenician, Thracian, Indian, or Galllic myth and played up being a little outsider that would be cool too.



I'm open to any homebrew that makes spears a better weapon in general just due to well the fighting style of the times.

Finally for history the game will be starting in Krete which you will be leaving for whatever reason you have finished your business here, and have decided to go wherever the boat you have decided to board is named Marathon and it is going to where you want to go.  Yes even if your character don't agree we'll get to how that is going to happen later.

So what could you have been doing in Crete you may ask well anything really its a decent size city.  Why would you be leaving that's up to you, but rumor has it the Spartan King has landed and is hiring mercenaries on the island perhaps to take the main city and force them into the alliance.  Also well known there is a Selucid? diplomat spending money to hire mercenaries and influence to prevent the Spartan King from winning.

[Dr_emperor]

Oslecamo that is a lot of requests.  Can you narrow that down a little.  So far reviewed water elemental and medusa and those look fine.  The god class would count as both sides of a gestalt but would be fine.  I'm kinda confused on the Oni brawler as well?

Rekmond can I get a link.  I've probably read it before but can't recall.


On the brighter side of things I'm going on a honeymoon this week and next, and will have wifi but will be away from books so please source your stuff as best you can even feats it makes things easy to reference.

[Rekmond]

http://tome-of-radiance.wikia.com/wiki/Tome_of_Radiance_Wiki

http://tome-of-radiance.wikia.com/wiki/Champion

I'd be going pure Champion, and the overall Light theme to the material can easily be worked into a sort of Apollo and Artemis or even Hyperion gift. In particular I'm eyeing the legend of Atalanta so I'd be a bow user, not to say I wouldn't be capable in a melee though.

[SorO_Lost]

Hmm, how about a Human Blue Mage 6 / Arcane Swordsage 6?
Feats (2 flaws): venerable, weak will, ?, improved natural weapon(unarmed strike), spellfire wielder, unknown 1st, knowledge devotion, arcane strike.
Stats: 6d8+12 (60 hp), +4 bab, 2/5/5 saves, 6 skills, abilities 14/14/14/10/14/16.
Features: detect magic, azure defense 3, quick to act +2, discipline focus(weapon focus, insightful strike), ac bonus, spell-maneuvers 11k/6r, blue magic 2/2/2/1 & 3.
Spells: 1st improvisation, instant diversion, instant search, protection from evil, shield; 2nd heroics, sadism, wraithstrike, 3rd blink, glibness, haste.
Blue: 1st cure light wounds, scholar's touch; 2nd ?, guidance of the avatar; 3rd ?, scrying.
Equipment: unknown.

A scholar, warrior, magician who is patron to Metis (greek) / Minerva (rome) / Seshat (egyptian).
He also thinks they are all the same person too.

[Rekmond]

soooooooo............

what're people doing?

[Dr_emperor]

Well I went on a 6 day cruise where the outlets were European.  so i had a 2.5 week hiatus with work afterwords and all, it was beautiful, I apologize for starting this game at a bad time.

Soro_lost that looks too strong. Would you mind waiting on other characters before me saying that for sure though.  My primary concerns are not the 2 classes(actually more leary on arcane swordsage) but how the feats interact with them, as well as duration of heroics at will.  Also the skill boosting spell guidance of the avatar.

Rekmond that looks ok.

[oslecamo]

So, would a Goddess of Horses and Fertility based on Epona be ok? Could I extend her portfolio to horse-like monsters like unicorns and pegasi and nightmares?

[SorO_Lost]

Soro_lost that looks too strong. Would you mind waiting on other characters before me saying that for sure though.  My primary concerns are not the 2 classes(actually more leary on arcane swordsage) but how the feats interact with them, as well as duration of heroics at will.  Also the skill boosting spell guidance of the avatar.

By interaction I take it you mean Arcane Strike, which cannot Interact with the Arcane Swordsage's Ready'ed Spells (no slots). And damage wise it's not a big deal if you run the numbers. Even with Haste & assuming both attacks hit, Arcane Strike deals a total of +6d4 or 15 damage. A CL 5 Fireball deals more, to an area. Knowledge Devotion helps out, but assuming 1 rank with a +2 circumstance & +20 competence bonus if has a 40% chance to swing for the +5 bonus, call it +4 from Knowledge Devotion as long as GotA is up which I do plan to have since Blue's Slot regen.

From there, assuming a One-Hander since the build needs a hand free to cast it can use a THF Longsword for a total of 1d8+7+3d4x2 for exactly one round (see haste) before dropping to two rounds of 1d8+7+2d4x2 and then it's damage drops again. The two averages are 38 (19/hit) & 33 (16.5/hit) with the total combination of Arcane Strike, Knowledge Devotion, Haste, and Guidance of the Avatar all coming into a perfect alignment. To scale, lv6 generic full BABer with a plain Greatsword & 18Str deals 2d6+6x2 for 26 (13/hit). Call it an Orc Whirling Frenzy Barbarian using a +1 Greatsword and it jumps to 2d6+12x3 for 57 (19/hit) before Feats/Spells. Damage wise it's better than a Featureless Warrior but still behind pure mundanes using less resources which was entirely intentional. Through Heroics could probably take things a bit further, I can drop it. It gets Mirror Move anyway which at least as a time cap on copying feats.

It's main deal as you can figure is it's Skills which is it's main direction. With 12 seconds it can expertly make just about any Skill Check. It can't find Traps above DC 20 of course, but per RC's nerfed Slight of Hand it could steal loose trinkets as a Move Action in front of people without them knowing, attempt to squeeze through small holes, climb just about any surface, predict the weather days in advance, and of course convince your own mother that he is her son because I also feel like playing with Bluff. It's lot of little things which allows it to display superhuman levels in any given area as long as it has a little prep time. Because it's a Greek nerdy superhero

[Dr_emperor]

Oslecamo,  I think that would be fine, totally fine with expanded  portfolio,  Epona was Celtic not greek so oddly more interested in history.  You could be from the greek world Galatia present day Turkey, or a deity from the outside.  Or you could be a child of Poseidon, lots of choices.


SorO_Lost
Yay, the math makes me happy, as does the reasonable interpretation.

I was unable to look up spellfire wielder but remember it being disallowed by a past DM of mine.  I'm also failing google today to find what it does the text seems to be go look at some other section.  I don't have any FR and...       not coming up on tools.   I need to stop being vague but I meant both and need the text on that.  I'm not asking for any changes.  Its possible to balance a party, 1 character different. 

randomly
Macedonian Greek will be replacing common.  Other languages spiraling will be Persian, Egyptian, Phoenician (many traders), Celtic, Sarmatian, Indian.   Yes those languages probably have different names, if you are linguistically better please correct.  They came in differing dialects but that's not worth our time.  You get standard languages but one *gets an asteric as primary.  I assume everyone will be taking Greek so if not Macedonian Greek use Greek (city name).   Monster languages include Fey and the elementals, and a few racials. 

[SorO_Lost]

Small amend, I missed I planned to go Unarmed as well. So that's 1d10+2 (7.5) vs 1d8+6 (10.5), through TWF would open up an increase if need be. That'd be, Hasted, TWF, +5 Devotion, 3rd level Slot for Strike, 14 Str, Improved Natural Weapon, all hit, the total comes to 1d10+7+3d4x3 for 60 on average (20/hit) if I go TWF. Otherwise it's a hair less.

On Spellfire for the most part it's not too bad. You have to Ready an Action to catch a Single-Target Spell which is a nerf from a Ready vs Spell being able to break the Concentration of almost any Spell. But you can use a stored change to heal 2hp or blast for 1d6. What's overpowered about it is you can dump up to your Constitution (value, not mod) all at once which in a normal context is a nice reimbursement for all those untriggered Ready Actions. And what's broken about it is when you combine with another creature (or your self after breaking break action economy) with infinite spell-power allowing you to open every Encounter with say a racially increased to 22 Constitution for 22d6 or 77 damage at level one.

And while I don't plan on nabbing some Action abuse, it does fit theme and it's sitting there open for anyone else to hook on to if they like. Essentially, with another Player's consent and desire to run something that can power it, 14d6 (42 avg) laser beam! Dunno if you think that'd be a bit too much.

[oslecamo]

On second thought, I think I'll go for goddess of love/beauty, Aphrodite-like.

Would lesser Aasimar or Lunarian for base race be ok?

Also flaws are yay/nay?

[Dr_emperor]

Lets not do flaws unless someone really needs one for some reason.

Oslecamo lesser Aasimar is ok as is the Lunarian but not ok with the racial feats.  Are those really even mutually exclusive concepts?  Love/beauty vs Fertility/horses?

SorO_Lost
Ok so you won't be able to charge it yourself.  Range on the laser?

[oslecamo]

Love/Beauty/Fertility/Horses lunarian goddess it will be!

Magic-blooded template yay-nay?

Also could I persuade you to let me gestalt God with one of the weakest base class? Basic fighter? CW Samurai? Monk? Basic soulknife?

[Risada]

Here's my submission:

Human Fighter 4/Ranger 2|Bard 3/Crusader 3
Progression: Ranger 2/Fighter 4|Bard 2/Crusader 1/Bard+1/Crusader+2
Stats:Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 10 Cha 14

ACFs:
Eberron Bard: Exchange Inspire Competence for Song of the Heart

Ranger Alternate Style - Spear Fighter: (from 3rd party book "Wildscape")
2nd: Agile Spear Fighter: Gain +5ft reach with a non-reach spear. Can attack adjacent foe even if a spear's reach would normally not allow it.
6th: Precise Spear Figher: Ignore the -4 penalty for attacking a creature in melee when utilizing the spear's reach, and ignores any cover short of complete cover.
11th: Redoubtable Spear Fighter: Whenever a foe provokes an AoO due to movement, the Ranger counts as having set his spear against a charge, even if the foe was not charging.


Feats
H: Jotunbrud
1: Hyena Tribe Hunter
F1: Improved Trip
R1: Track
R2: Agile Spear Fighter
3: Song of the White Raven
F2: Power Attack
Bard3: Song of the Heart
F4: Combat Reflexes
6: Knock-Down

This is supposed to be your Standard Spartan - Spear and Shield - with some basic lock down and buffing abilities on bard. Crusader is there for the possibility of using shield maneuvers... Although I am not that happy to manage his random maneuvers. Is it possible to take Warblade and give up on one or more schools for Devoted Spirit discipline? Warblade has some jumping maneuvers that might fit with the theme.

What do you think, Dr_emperor?

[SorO_Lost]

Ok so you won't be able to charge it yourself.  Range on the laser?

I honestly had to look that up, 400ft range and I also forgot the DC 20 Reflex halves the damage. btw the damage if half divine and half fire so Fire Resistance partially applies too.

The healing range is touch, through without a high enough charge I'll probably stick to CWL for healing the party.

[Dr_emperor]

Risada I like it,  I was going to cry if I didn't get someone wielding a spear and shield.  I want to see how it compares to other characters.  It might lack a little bit of range though which is oddly appropriate for the fall of hoplite warfare.  I have no problem, with switching maneuvers out.  So a Warblade with tiger claw, white raven and, devoted spirit (is that where the shield maneuvers are?).  Or do you want to switch out the Crusader recovery mechanic to the warblade with those maneuvers?


SorO_Lost
How amenable are you to changing that knowing that it sits flavorfully for me to give the feat to any Macedonian as a lightning bolt that he could toss at the party.  I'm thinking same charge ratio can all be used for healing.  Same range.  No reflex save.  max  1/2 level D6?  Full con is a little too high.

I actually caught the healing infinite thing first remembered debates on healing, then did math on how long it would take you to heal 80 damage divided amongst 3 people. 

Oslecamo
Good question on the Gestalt and my knee-jerk reaction is no.  It would help to know which salient divine and god bodies you were taking though.

On Magic-blooded nay.


Yay 3 skeletons to work with.  I'm shooting for 5 people to start.  I've seen too many play by posts die due to players disappearing.

[oslecamo]

Oslecamo
Good question on the Gestalt and my knee-jerk reaction is no.  It would help to know which salient divine and god bodies you were taking though.

My current draft sits at

(click to show/hide)

Alter Reality-Kinda half the point of being a goddess after all.
Call creature-For now will be used to get a CR 4 Asperi from Fiend Folio (horse that rides the wind).
Grow Creature-for horse-like beings. Bigger is better.
Control Creature-also for horse-like beings.
Gift of Life-a bit tangent, but some versions of Epona's myth puts her as triumphing over death. Game-wise it's useful to have somebody able to get dead party members back up.
Lay Curse-All greek gods love to lay curses on mortals that displease them.
Stride-Gotta go fast.

Divine Characteristics

(click to show/hide)

God Domain(x3): Charm, Lust, Travel.
God Smite(ranged)
God Aura (Awe)
God Perfection

As you can see I'm not preparing some uber combo, mostly just getting horses and making them better while my character herself will hang back and throw stuff at range.