[Discussion] Walk Into A Bar Discussion Thread

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

I checked out the X to Y thread and there's not too much you can benefit from.

Thunderlance lets you attack with int but it's a 4th level spell. Whirling Blade is a 2nd level spell and lets you make a single melee attack against everything in a 60ft line.

Neither of those things is really viable as a primary attack mode, though a wand of Whirling Blade in a wand chamber could be interesting (and Truenamers get UMD.)

However, Homebrew has the answer! This thread has various homebrew feats that I suspect SirP will be ok with, including:

(click to show/hide)

Prerequisites: Intelligence 13.
Benefit: Your knowledge of combat and the skills involved serves you well. You may use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength modifier to determine your bonus on attack rolls with all weapons. You may use your Intelligence modifier in place of your Strength modifier when attempting to trip another creature and to resist being tripped yourself.

Given the precedent with both Weapon Finesse and Intuitive Attack, this will also give you Int to damage in this game.

[Nytemare3701]

An item of Moonblade with that version of combat expertise would be pretty much ideal. Truenaming uses very few feats, and I'm already getting Keen Intellect.

On Knowledge skills: The hybrid wouldn't have the knowledge focuses that truenamers usually have since it would be replacing all the normal class features with the SFC abilities.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

 I'm reading up on Spellfire and I wonder if a Spellshaper's Formula count as spells for the purpose of absorption? Because if they do, that's a nice synergy between your Channeler/Namer and my Spellsage.

[Nytemare3701]

I'm reading up on Spellfire and I wonder if a Spellshaper's Formula count as spells for the purpose of absorption? Because if they do, that's a nice synergy between your Channeler/Namer and my Spellsage.

EDIT: If a rod of absorption can absorb it, so can I. I know I can absorb warlock blasts, does that help?

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Yes it does help. Spellshape attacks and Arcane Formulae are spell like abilities which means a RoA can absorb them and so can a Spellfire user.

They're also usable effectively at will, so you won't ever need to worry about draining items for Spellfire levels.

[Nytemare3701]

Yes it does help. Spellshape attacks and Arcane Formulae are spell like abilities which means a RoA can absorb them and so can a Spellfire user.

In that case, We have a very Batman/Robin thing going. I approve. (Also, I have no race chosen, so I can work with you to get a good tag-team going)

They're also usable effectively at will, so you won't ever need to worry about draining items for Spellfire levels.

That might get a little crazy actually, since with a decent CON I can have a LOT of spellfire stored.

EDIT: Knowledge devotion should work with spellfire, since it is applicable for things like weapon focus. Looks like I'll want to squeeze it in if I can. Same with things like Mortalbane, since it isn't specific to Utterances.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

That could work, in fact. My backstory has me spending decades basically reading and pondering arcane riddles the whole time. Becoming aquainted with a Truenamer (whose class description is "reads and ponders arcane riddles") during that time makes plenty of sense.

Race wise, I'm a Dragonwrought Kobold. Going with the dragony connection, the Dragonborn template on something that already has a Con bonus seems like a plan. Heck, you could refluff the template as being the result of some strange ritual we performed rather than a blessing from Bahamut (who shouldn't really be able to influence things inside the Dark God's clubhouse in any case.)

EDIT:

That might get a little crazy actually, since with a decent CON I can have a LOT of spellfire stored.

That's probably not a bad thing. It's a sufficiently high op campaign that a little bit of crazy is almost expected.

[Nytemare3701]

That could work, in fact. My backstory has me spending decades basically reading and pondering arcane riddles the whole time. Becoming aquainted with a Truenamer (whose class description is "reads and ponders arcane riddles") during that time makes plenty of sense.

Race wise, I'm a Dragonwrought Kobold. Going with the dragony connection, the Dragonborn template on something that already has a Con bonus seems like a plan. Heck, you could refluff the template as being the result of some strange ritual we performed rather than a blessing from Bahamut (who shouldn't really be able to influence things inside the Dark God's clubhouse in any case.)

So...I'll make a dragonborn something or other, and write it in as redefining my existence using a draconic truename instead of my previous one.

Rhulitir Lex (The Avenging Word, an Agent of Bahamut in the Dark God's Realm. After years of research I realize that the other Gods are completely cut off from the realm and becoming a Dragonborn would be impossible by normal means. I use my knowledge of truenaming to attempt to force the ritual, tearing a hole in this campaign's equivalent of the Weave, centered on myself. My truename is destroyed by the attempt, but before I am entirely erased, Bahamut gives me a new one as his agent. Even if the gods can't intervene here, Truenaming's big strength is that it breaks the rules over its knee in weird ways, even if 90% of them are detrimental to the truenamer.)

EDIT:
Dragonborn Mongrelfolk. "An amalgam of races, quickly assembled via broken truenaming and held together by draconic strength"
OR
Dragonborn Warforged. "An artificial body, quickly defined and obviously inspired by dragons"

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

Sounds good. I'll extend my background to reflect that the reason my character was driven mad was that whatever happened to him destroyed or obscured his truename and part of the reason he was able to come back was your character helping him find it/make a new one.

[Nytemare3701]

All of this hinges of course on SirPercival approving the Spellfire Truenamer, as well as the normal hoops that truenamers have to jump through before you play them (Item Familiar, Paragnostic Assembly, etc)

On that note...SirPercival:

An Item Familiar is a very valuable part of Truenaming, but people tend to freak out about the 10% bonus XP. I'm thinking we can just put the bonus XP back into the familiar for when I upgrade it to the greater silver tongue amulet later.

• Please take a look at the Truenamer's Dirty Tricks and tell me if any of them need to be banned preemptively, although as the link says "None of it will let you measure up in power to any T1 or T2 caster who knows what they're doing", so I doubt a high-op campaign will have a problem with most of it.

I think the biggest deal would be "Hear My Words, O Dark Master!", but in the end it'd be sacrificing the Dark God's followers to weaken his hold on his "clubhouse", allowing minor miracles from my patron. It's still an evil act, which would slowly taint me I suppose, but I'm basically a religious extremist incognito in the chosen realm of an evil god, so I'm not exactly a saint.

For the item rebuilding trick: I intend to use this for low level utility potions, not skull talismans. If my team feels I'm not pulling my weight though, I'll check back with you about them (Not that I can make the talismans either way).

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

SirP's already said he likes the concept, so I'm sure he'll work with you to make it a viable character somehow. The Paragnostic Assembly will probably get folded into one of the existing affiliations (Inverted Pyramid maybe) though I'm not sure how that will affect the Truenaming bonus.

Also, with you being Dragonborn, me being a Kobold, and Digital being a Half Dragon, I've got a team name idea: "3 Dragons and a Dwarf, The Scale-Beard Alliance."

Of course we're still open to more members. They just have to have scales. Or a beard.

[Nytemare3701]

3 Dragons and a Dwarf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdFFTl34pyQ

How do you feel about a petal? Dragonborn should still work, and those are some beautiful stats. Same lore still applies (A false body cobbled together in a moment of desperation), although I still need to check on this myself, as I just got it from here.

Petal Captured One(shrapnyl) incarnate construct
    Str 18(18 not +18) Dex 11, Con +4, Int +4, Wis 19, Cha +8

EDIT: The "Captured One" is a template that makes a creature a construct by covering it in parts from a Raggamoffyn. Incarnate Construct simplifies it (and lowers LA) and removes the construct type. So, I'd be a Petal-Sized Dragonborn, cobbled together from bits of metal...so basically a familiar of some sort for you, further cementing the whole Batman & Robin thing.

EDIT 2: Incarnate construct removes all the special attacks and qualities, thereby removing all the interactions that "Captured One" introduces and effectively making it a single entity, leaving you with a Petal with vastly different stats and an LA of +0 instead of "Cohort". Feel free to correct me if I misunderstand.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

The Captured One template in MMII says it only works on Giants, Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids, Animals, Beasts, and Vermin. That's 3.0 though, did it get errataed? 

This template might be an alternative to Captured One to turn a Petal into a construct so it can be incarnated. Not sure what the source is though. Wasn't able to find it referenced anywhere else.

EDIT: Ok, that was a nasty surprise. I clicked on the Willing Recruits thread and was told the board no longer existed. I thought we were going into the Great New Years Board Crash all over again. Turns out our 3 page tangent just got moved onto its own thread.

Incidentally, I am not responsible for the name but I wholeheartedly approve. And my character says "ouch."

Anyway, Captured One wise, I'm fine with it but SirP will need to sign off. There's some potential weirdness associated with the CO's LA being "n/a."

[sirpercival]

Having reached 3 pages, I split this out into its own thread, tentatively titled Walk Into A Bar (3 dragons and a dwarf yadda yadda yadda).  Pick a team name and I'll fix.

@Nytemare:

I'm not as crazy about the hybrid option as-is, honestly... though maybe we could work up something that's functionally similar and thematically consistent if that's what you'd like to do.  It just feels like too much of a kludge...

[Nytemare3701]

ot as crazy about the hybrid option as-is, honestly... though maybe we could work up something that's functionally similar and thematically consistent if that's what you'd like to do.  It just feels like too much of a kludge...

Seeing as I design/consult on stuff like this for a living, I'm sure I could combine them into a thematic and appropriate class, somewhere around tier 3. Give me about an hour and I'll post it.

[sirpercival]

ot as crazy about the hybrid option as-is, honestly... though maybe we could work up something that's functionally similar and thematically consistent if that's what you'd like to do.  It just feels like too much of a kludge...

Seeing as I design/consult on stuff like this for a living, I'm sure I could combine them into a thematic and appropriate class, somewhere around tier 3. Give me about an hour and I'll post it.

That would be lovely.

[Nytemare3701]

-Snip-

[sirpercival]

That looks great!  I suggest you post it in a separate thread on the homebrew board for more exposure and feedback.  It's a really flavorful class... I agree that some more synergistic CFs in the dead levels might not go amiss.

[Concerned Ninja Citizen]

This thread, which SirP mentioned earlier, has some ideas you could use to fill dead levels.

[Nytemare3701]

This thread, which SirP mentioned earlier, has some ideas you could use to fill dead levels.

Indeed. I'll look into that before moving it.

That looks great!  I suggest you post it in a separate thread on the homebrew board for more exposure and feedback.  It's a really flavorful class... I agree that some more synergistic CFs in the dead levels might not go amiss.

Any ideas for a new name? Spellfire Speaker sounds too much like a PrC.