Runecarving Index & General Discussion

[Stratovarius]

On your prior post, the Steel 3 one is illegal - it must have a second rune associated with it to work.

That means that my example character can never gain all of his rune effects or even have three "maxed out" carved runes.  I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not.

Actually, you can always max out the runes you're using. All you needed to do was put the Steel 3 with a level 1 effect from any other rune. It was the rune effect being solo that was illegal, not having three carved runes. The limits are on the number of carved runes you can have, and the maximum level of the rune effects of those carved runes. But you can always run every carved rune at the max capacity.

Except I only had one unused level 1 rune effect and I'm assuming that you can't be affected by the same rune effect more than once.

Now where does it say something like that?

A Lujuus/Sterkur carved rune is definitely a different source than a Lujuus/Rauta carved rune, so there's no need to worry about same source stacking. Now, if you try and stack every rune so that it improves a single particular ability (say, Strength), I would feel perfectly justified as a DM with smacking you with Shivering Touch and then laughing my ass off

Also, just updated the Rune Magic rules post to try and clarify some of this.

[Nanshork]

On your prior post, the Steel 3 one is illegal - it must have a second rune associated with it to work.

That means that my example character can never gain all of his rune effects or even have three "maxed out" carved runes.  I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not.

Actually, you can always max out the runes you're using. All you needed to do was put the Steel 3 with a level 1 effect from any other rune. It was the rune effect being solo that was illegal, not having three carved runes. The limits are on the number of carved runes you can have, and the maximum level of the rune effects of those carved runes. But you can always run every carved rune at the max capacity.

Except I only had one unused level 1 rune effect and I'm assuming that you can't be affected by the same rune effect more than once.

Now where does it say something like that?

A Lujuus/Sterkur carved rune is definitely a different source than a Lujuus/Rauta carved rune, so there's no need to worry about same source stacking. Now, if you try and stack every rune so that it improves a single particular ability (say, Strength), I would feel perfectly justified as a DM with smacking you with Shivering Touch and then laughing my ass off

Also, just updated the Rune Magic rules post to try and clarify some of this.

Speaking of, I suggest giving the bonuses a type to prevent such stacking.  (Honestly I'd just go with all base runes are the same source, Lujuus is Lujuus no matter what it is paired with.)

Also, looking over the rules for runecarving you mention runes that have a limited number of uses.  You don't have any of those.

Furthermore I'd get rid of the "runes per day" limit and instead only have the "active runes at a time" limit.  This will allow for things like I'm running around in a dungeon, fully buffed with runes (because why not?) and then the party wants to rest in the dungeon so I can dismiss one of my active carved runes and carve an alignment rune on a door frame to help protect the party while we sleep.

[Stratovarius]

Furthermore I'd get rid of the "runes per day" limit and instead only have the "active runes at a time" limit.  This will allow for things like I'm running around in a dungeon, fully buffed with runes (because why not?) and then the party wants to rest in the dungeon so I can dismiss one of my active carved runes and carve an alignment rune on a door frame to help protect the party while we sleep.

Seems reasonable, since right now there's not a lot of versatility in the character. It's basically pick at the beginning of the day and then stuck with it.

And I'm not too worried about stacking, at least until I get proven wrong.

[Nanshork]

I thought you were going to downgrade the required stat for runes to 10 + 1/2 rune level?

[Stratovarius]

I was, I just never edited the rules. Now shoosh, and get your character finished.

[Nanshork]

I was, I just never edited the rules. Now shoosh, and get your character finished.

I'm working on it, that's what prompted the post!

I still don't think that rune effects should stack with themselves.   

[Stratovarius]

For now, they do. So feel free to try and break it

[Nanshork]

For now, they do. So feel free to try and break it

...okay, I can work on proving that they shouldn't stack!

[Stratovarius]

Good man. You've got two runes a day to do it with

Well, two at a time

[Nanshork]

Does Expert Carver stack with Skilled Carver?

Also, is the rule for all of the runes to round down with a minimum of the bonus you get every 4 (or whatever) levels?  So a level 5 Runecarver gets the same +2 Str that a level 1 does?

[Stratovarius]

The trigger points on the benefits are slightly different than it sounds. It's 1,4,8,12,16,20. WotC's "every four" progression.

Expert Carver replaces Skilled Carver (it incorporates the benefits).

[Nanshork]

So gain the bonus at every trigger point?

Edit: Expert Carver should have something like   Note: This feat replaces and does not stack with Skilled Carver

[Stratovarius]

Yes, they do. And edits in place.

So, what do you want to see me finish next for Runecarving?

[Nanshork]

Well, I posted my completed character sheet.  He looks pretty ridiculous for a level one character so take a look and see if any adjustments need to be made.

[Stratovarius]

Yes, yes he does.

Proposed changes:
Focused Rune requires runecarving level 3. The benefits are less impressive once the HD creep starts to come into play.
Sterkur dropped from +6 hp/level to +3 hp/level.

Combined, the changes drop the character down to this guy. It's still powerful, although a fair bit of that is coming from the Tokunnir race. Without the 2nd carved rune, it's more or less in line with where it should be...

[Nanshork]

That is less insane.  The proposed changes are a good start, we'll see where things go from there.

I'll make the appropriate changes on my sheet.

[Stratovarius]

I think it's still overgunned slightly for 1st, but that's almost entirely the result of the 2nd carved rune from Tokunnir.

I'm debating replacing it with something like 1 free rune known + Rune Rage (Ex): For a number of rounds equal to your primary ability modifier + con modifier, you double the bonuses from one carved rune.

For the feat, currently Runehammer would probably be the best bet, but it's not brilliant. Need me to invent a few more?

[Nanshork]

A few more first level feats would be nice although I'm not sure what would be appropriate.

I'm telling you, removing the stacking would help.     Either that or reducing the bonuses from having a complimentary rune?  Instead of an additional +2 Str instead gain +1 to attack or damage, instead of extra max hp gain +1 to fort saves?  Something like that?

[Stratovarius]

At 1st level it appears a little powerful, I'll grant you, but this system has to scale all the way up to 10, 15, 20, and deal with what are basically epic level effects. And right now the scale starts a little high at the beginning. Fairly certain at the top end it could deal with being stronger, though.

I'd have to create and hand out a lot more runes to avoid stacking, which is one of my current arguments against it. Right now, you couldn't have a second carved rune at 1st level without changing the base class progression.

I'll see what I can come up with for feats.

[Nanshork]

Well you could just hand out 4 at first level instead of three.   

This is going to be an interesting system to balance.