Spellsong Index & General Discussion

[Stratovarius]

Creation's Hex and Crippling Anguish now have niches, I like that.

Yeah, I do realize that Strip Protections is an all or nothing gambit depending on the enemy, but you get my point.

Ahh, I didn't look at the table so assumed it was another of your "pick something from this list" things.  Creation's Hex might not need that change then.

I didn't want to do damage calculations on a capstone.

So in that case, I'd say the Spellsinger is more or less sorted. On to the PrCs?

And I don't want to do the damage calculations either, because it involves adding in all the Metasong effects that can stack too. Blah! 

[Nanshork]

Artisan

Golem needs some sort of repair option like the Runecrafting Construct guy class.

Does Great Master mean you can craft things for free?

[Stratovarius]

I'll copy the repair rules over from Runecarving.

And yes, it does.  Well, aside from the XP and time cost.

[Nanshork]

Earthspeaker

You're not done with the pre-reqs.

Resilient Performance needs a duration, such as until the beginning of their next turn.


Songpriest

Voice of Condemnation needs a duration.


Speculator

I don't see this class actually getting used...


Voice

Man that special requirement.....

Two faces of fate means I'd never use this class...

[Stratovarius]

Honestly, thinking of dropping Voice of the Elements and replacing with Elemental Affinity and Elemental Gestalt from the main Arhosa feat thread. Voice of the Elements is strictly worse. Or I need to rewrite the feat. Blah. The duration on Resilient Performance is supposed to be that round, btw. I'll edit it in.

Voice of Condemnation is 1 round. I'll add.

What makes you not like the speculator, in specific?

The special requirement is more for flavour purposes. It's obviously stupidly difficult to complete. And you are worshipping the lady of luck - she's not always kind. Mostly though.

[Nanshork]

I'll get to feats later. 

Speculator is all about debuffing the party to buff yourself (with a little of the opposite).  It's not a party friendly class, more one I see being used by a BBEG.

As for Voice, I just don't like anything that completely nullifies the action you were about to do.  At least the Wilder and whatever class you made to emulate it (I can't remember the name of the rune class) nullifies the next action and not the current (and that's if you choose to try to boost yourself).

[Stratovarius]

The intent of the speculator was more to be that characters could take penalties to their own abilities in order to boost the rolls of other characters. But it was supposed to be a little bit of a crapshoot, because Luck goddess. The Luckslinger ability is the best example of this, since a character can voluntarily take a hit to save an ally on a bad roll.

Unlettered is what you're thinking of over on Runes. And that one is just ripped from the Wilder in part. And the Voice, by and large, doesn't actually nullify your action. It only nullifies the Spellsongs granted by the Voice of Luck. The other class abilities end up with worse results, but they still happen. And your Spellsinger spellsongs (the full normal list), isn't affected by Voice of Luck, so you can use those without consequence.

[Nanshork]

Things are just too swingy for my tastes.  I'm sure that there are people who will play them, and they're not necessarily bad classes. 

I just hate them, just like the Martyr. 

[Stratovarius]

You have a lot of hate for a (very) innocent class there

[Nanshork]

Bah, nothing is truly innocent.   

So what's next, feats?

[Stratovarius]

I would eyeball the Spellsongs first. It should be fairly quick.

[Nanshork]

Spellsongs

So effect modifier is only determined by the skill roll and you can't choose it, correct?  Also, can you have more than one spellsong going at the same time if you take that feat that reduces the action to maintain?

Embrace of the Endless Ocean: "Treated as if they were underwater" is vague.  Do they have to make swim checks?  Do their slashing and bludgeoning weapons do half damage?  Do they have issues using ranged weapons?

Why only have Int damage at 9 and Dex at 12?

Does Run with the Pack use up any of their actions for the next turn?  I can see using it as a buff.

Misanthropic Damnation: Can it teleport a target up or down?  What if the target is teleported into an occupied space?

Not in a thousand years: I understand the lack of specification but "or appropriate" is pretty vague.  For example, anybody can use spellsongs if they just put skillpoints in so it really spellcasting?

You shook me all night long: What about people who are immune to falling damage?  This one needs to be rewritten IMO.

Ice Ice Baby: dndtools is down, link is broken.

Carry on my wayward son: Ouch!

Die for the cause: You should reference the diplomacy rules so people know exactly what you mean.

Why use anything but Crush em?

[Stratovarius]

First questions: Yes and Yes.

Embrace: Drowning behaves differently if you are underwater or not. That's the only thing it's referring to.

Ability damage: I'm honestly not sure, and given how high the effect multiplier can go, it's possible to one-shot pretty much anything that fails the save by the end of the game. I think I'll drop most of the ability damage ones down to 1 per multiplier.

Run with the Pack: No, it doesn't. That's why it's immediate and not on the target's turn.

Misanthropic: No, has to land in a safe space. I'll grab the usual wording for that.

Thousand Years: Yes, spellsong is spellcasting. The full list is spell, psionics, incarnum, truespeak, binding, mysteries, runes, spellsong, osteomancy, necromantic, rituals, slices, spell seeds, thresholds, invocations, and probably a few more I've missed. Hence not putting it in there.

You Shook Me: It's a quote from the earthquake spell. It's not falling damage at all.

Ice Ice: Iceberg

Die for the Cause: Will add a link.

Crush Em: Prefer no save damage? Or having a Fanatic? Or you need the target captured?

[Nanshork]

First questions: Yes and Yes.

Embrace: Drowning behaves differently if you are underwater or not. That's the only thing it's referring to.

...not according to the srd.  You either suffocate or drown, they're different effects.

Ability damage: I'm honestly not sure, and given how high the effect multiplier can go, it's possible to one-shot pretty much anything that fails the save by the end of the game. I think I'll drop most of the ability damage ones down to 1 per multiplier.

That's probably for the best.

Run with the Pack: No, it doesn't. That's why it's immediate and not on the target's turn.

Fair enough.

Misanthropic: No, has to land in a safe space. I'll grab the usual wording for that.

Sounds good.

Thousand Years: Yes, spellsong is spellcasting. The full list is spell, psionics, incarnum, truespeak, binding, mysteries, runes, spellsong, osteomancy, necromantic, rituals, slices, spell seeds, thresholds, invocations, and probably a few more I've missed. Hence not putting it in there.

That is a pretty long list.

You Shook Me: It's a quote from the earthquake spell. It's not falling damage at all.

The earthquake spell actually says "At the end of the spell, all fissures grind shut, killing any creatures still trapped within."  You should probably put in the fissures grinding shut text so that A) there aren't a bunch of leftover rifts at the end of the spell and B) so there's no falling damage question in the future.

Ice Ice: Iceberg

Don't tell me, fix the link. 

Die for the Cause: Will add a link.

Sounds good.

Crush Em: Prefer no save damage? Or having a Fanatic? Or you need the target captured?

At a minimum Crush beats damage and immunity removal (unless they're immune to death?).

[Stratovarius]

Ugh, I would have absolutely sworn I saw something that basically said being underwater when you started drowning meant you skipped the constitution/holding your breath phase. That's the intent.

I'll update ability damage, fanatic and the fissures.

Edit: Updates in place. I think I caught all the ability damage songs.

[Nanshork]

If that's the intent then you'll probably need to write up the text for it yourself.

[Stratovarius]

Thinking of replacing with this, rather than having a Drown effect be possible at level 3.

Embrace of the Endless Ocean: Target is bullrushed backwards by a Colossal wave (total bonus +30). Target is moved 5 feet directly away from the spellsinger, plus an additional 5 feet for every 5 points by which the wave's check result exceeds that of the target.

[Nanshork]

That'll work but you could make the check a scaling bonus based on effect modifier.  Something like 25 + (5 time effect modifier).

[Stratovarius]

That'll work but you could make the check a scaling bonus based on effect modifier.  Something like 25 + (5 time effect modifier).

Good call. For some reason I didn't think of it. Not sure why...

[Nanshork]

That'll work but you could make the check a scaling bonus based on effect modifier.  Something like 25 + (5 time effect modifier).

Good call. For some reason I didn't think of it. Not sure why...

Because you're silly.