Author Topic: Ruin Chanter & Ruin Elemental (Read 7972 times)

~Corvus~ · « **on:** September 27, 2017, 05:11:12 PM »

Ruin Chanter
(Monster Manual V pg 132-133)

(click to show/hide)

HD:d6

Level	Bab	Fort	Ref	Will	Feature	Ability Score Increase
1	+0	+0	+2	+2	Fey Body, Archaic Knowledge, Word of Breaking, Ruinous Music 1/day/HD, Projection, Curse Song	+1 Cha
2	+1	+0	+3	+3	Armor of Music, Focus on Architecture	+1 Dex
3	+2	+1	+3	+3	Inspire Incompetence (-2)	+1 Cha
4	+3	+1	+4	+4	Call from the Ruins	+1 Dex
5	+3	+1	+4	+4	Command (1)	+1 Cha
6	+4	+2	+5	+5	Spellbreaker Chant	+1 Dex
7	+5	+2	+5	+5	Spell Resistance	+1 Cha
8	+6	+2	+6	+6	Inspire Incompetence (-5)	+1 Dex
9	+6	+3	+6	+6	Command (2)	+1 Cha
10	+7	+3	+7	+7	Inspire hatred	+1 Dex
11	+8	+3	+7	+7	Will not be Silenced	+1 Cha
12	+9	+4	+8	+8	Command (3)	+1 Dex
13	+9	+4	+8	+8	Inspire Incompetence (-7)	+1 Cha
14	+10	+4	+9	+9	Song of Shattering	+1 Dex, +1 Cha

Skills:6+int modifier per level, x4 if taken at first level.
Class Skills: Appraise, Bluff, Concentration, Decipher Script, Hide, Jump, Intimidate, Knowledge (architecture and engineering), Knowledge (History), Knowledge (nobility and Royalty), Move Silently, Perform (Chant), Perform (Oratory), Perform (Poetry), Perform (Sing), Search, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival.

Weapons and Proficiencies:
The Ruin Chanter has the exact weapon and armor proficiencies as the Bard. However, since it does not cast spells, the Ruin chanter does not gain cast Arcane spells in Light armor without Arcane Spell Failure.

Ability Score Increases: The Ruin Chanter gains +1 Cha at odd levels, +1 Dex at even levels, and at level 14, it gains an additional +1 Cha for a total of +7 Dex and +8 Cha.

Fey Body

(click to show/hide)

Features:

Archaic Knowledge : Every Ruin chanter has a special knowledge pertaining to the past and antiquity. It takes a knowledge check with a bonus equal to its Ruin Chanter level + its Intelligence modifier to see whether it knows some relevant information about ancient notable people, legendary items, or what used to be in places before now.

Word of Breaking (Su): Ruin chanters know how to disrupt just about anything. As a Standard Action, the Ruin Chanter may utter a baleful word with a suitable gesture. It makes a Ranged Touch attack that, upon a hit, deals 1d8+Cha bonus Sonic damage. This damage increases by 1d8 every 3 HD the Ruin Chanter has.
This ranged attack provokes an Attack of Opportunity just as a spellcaster producing a spell would.
The range for this ability is 25' +5'/HD; at level 11, this ability's range improves to 100' +10'/HD

Ruinous Music (Su): Ruin Chanters weave suffering and tragedy into the world from their musical performance. Once per day per hit die, it can use its song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (to any it desires, usually its enemies). While these abilities fall under the category of music and the descriptions discuss chanting or playing music, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, or any spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum Ruin Chanter level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill (of some vocal performance) to qualify. Each technique of Ruinous music takes 1 daily use unless otherwise specified.

Ruinous Music counts as Bardic Music for purposes of qualifying for feats and Prestige Classes. It therefore also benefits from feats such as Extra Music, Lingering Song, and so on.

Projection (Ex): Ruin Chanters are feared for their ability to project their voice. A normal use of their Ruinous Music has a Medium-range emanation: 100' +10' per Ruin Chanter HD. However, the Ruin Chanter can opt to Project its music to Long Range (250' +25'/HD) if it expends an extra use of its Ruinous Music and takes 1 point of Constitution damage. This Con damage can only be cured by natural (non-extraordinary/magical/psionic/supernatural) means.
The range of any ability is of course still subject to further change, such as by the Resounding Voice spell.

Curse Song (Su): A Ruin Chanter with at least 1 rank in Perform may apply baleful magic to all it desires. Those that hear this performance take a -1 penalty to Damage rolls, Fortitude saves, Will saves, and AC. This penalty increases by -1 for every 4 HD the Ruin Chanter has (-2 at 4, -3 at 8, etc).
This song persists for as long as the Ruin Chanter sings it and 5 rounds thereafter.

Inspire Incompetence (Su): A 3rd level Ruin Chanter with 6 ranks in Perform may choose to make it more difficult for those around him to accomplish tasks. Anyone that can hear this spoken chant takes a -2 competence penalty to all skill checks, Reflex Saves, and Initiative. The Ruin chanter may choose to exclude any it wishes from this powerful dirge. This penalty increases by 1 every 3 levels (-2 at 6, -3 at 9, etc).
This performance can last for as long as the Ruin chanter concentrates, for up to 2 minutes.

Command (Sp): A Ruin Chanter of at least 5th level and 8 Perform ranks may spend a use of Ruinous Music to affect a single creature already afflicted by its Curse Song with a Command, like the spell, except that it must be within hearing range of the Chanter. At higher levels, the Chanter may Command multiple creatures affected by its Curse Song.

Spellbreaker Chant (Su): A 6th-level Ruin Chanter with at least 9 ranks in Perform may take use of its Ruinous Music to make magic difficult to cast in its area. Any spell cast or power manifest within range of this song has a 25% chance of failure, plus 5% of failure per bonus of Cha, to a maximum of 80%. Like other songs, if the Ruin Chanter stops concentrating on the song, it will only linger for 5 rounds after he stops his chant.
This ability does not stack with the Spellbreaker Song feat from Complete Mage, pg 35.

Song of Shattering (Su): A 14th level Ruin Chanter with at least 17 ranks in Perform may expend uses of its Ruinous Music to play this unearthly tune. It has two options with this performance.

First, it may expend 4 uses of Ruinous Music to cause damage to a (non-living) object up to 200# per Hit Die the Ruin Chanter has. It focuses its music into the object, which takes 1d12+Charisma Modifier sonic damage per HD of the Ruin Chanter; this damage bypasses all hardness and Damage Reduction.

Second, it may expend 1 use of Ruinous Music to use Greater Dispel Magic[/i], as the spell, except that it does not provoke Attacks of Opportuity to use, it affects both Magic and Psionics; and you use a Perform check to make the Dispel Check.

Ruin Chanters and Ruin Elementals are immune to the effects of this ability.

Armor of Music (Ex): Beginning at level 2, the Ruin Chanter draws resilience from the mystical energies it procures. The Ruin Chanter gains a Racial bonus to its Armor Class equal to its Charisma modifier.

Focus on Architecture: As long as the Ruin Chanter has 5 ranks in both Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) and Knowledge (History), it gets a +3 bonus to each skill. As long as it has 13 ranks in each skill, it gains a +10 bonus to both of them and whenever it rolls a skill check for either skill, it rolls twice and takes the better result.

Call from the Ruins (Ex): At level 4, if it has at least 5 ranks in all of Perform, Knowledge (history) and at least 5 ranks in Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering), the Ruin Chanter can begin great mastery of its domain. Once per week, it may take an hour-long ritual. It talks of the sorrow and loss from the past; of the terrors yet to come; of the uselessness of the struggles of man and how it stands upon the folly of men and all in-between. For this hour, a storm rages (See DMG pg 94), and it is unquenchable, even by magical spells such as Control Weather. However, the Ruin Chanter does not take damage from a storm conjured by this ritual.

At the end of the hour the storm abates, and the Ruin Chanter must make either a Knowledge (History) or a (Architecture & Engineering) check, its choice. A Ruin Elemental appears with Hit Dice equal to 1/3 its total check, ready to do the ruin chanter’s bidding (but if its check is lower than a 3, then no Elemental appears). Since the ruin elemental serves the ruin chanter until the elemental is destroyed, it’s possible for a ruin chanter to have more than one ruin elemental serving it.

A Ruin Chanter may only control 2 HD of Ruin Elemental for every 3 HD it has. If one of its Elementals grows in HD beyond its capacity to control it, it may choose which one to keep control of. These freed Elementals are likely to remain friendly to the Ruin Chanter that brought it into sentience; however, this is entirely up to GM discretion.

Finally, a Ruin Elemental is treated as if it were a Humanoid, not an elemental, in regards to any ability of the Ruin Chanter's that is Mind-affecting.

Spell Resistance (Ex): A Ruin Chanter's music and its tendency to break things around it eventually translated its body into one with magical resistance. At 7th level, it gains SR equal to 12 + its total HD.

Inspire Hatred (Su): At 10th level, with 13 ranks in Perform, the Ruin Chanter can evoke hatred in a single living creature within 30 feet that has an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. At 12th level and every 3 levels thereafter, it may affect an additional creature (two creatures at 12th level, three at 15th, four at 18th, etc). To inspire hatred, you must sing, speak, or perform, and the target must hear you. The target is entitled to a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your total HD + your Cha modifier) to resist this mind-affecting ability. The effect lasts for as long as the target hears you and for 5 additional rounds thereafter.
An affected creature develops an unreasoning hatred of another creature that you indicate. The affected creature attacks the object of its hate as directed, to the exclusion of other opponents. If the affected creature is attacked, it can defend itself as normal, but as soon as possible, it resumes attacking the object of its hate. Creatures compelled to attack an ally can attempt a new Will save each round to break free from this supernatural effect.

Will not be Silenced (Ex): Beginning at 11th level, a Ruin Chanter's abilities are immune to spells, powers, and effects like Silence that would otherwise suppress and prevent sound in their areas of effect.

Versatility_Nut · « **Reply #1 on:** September 27, 2017, 10:54:23 PM »

Okay! Quickly drabbling some suggestions.

1. Either remove the Dex bonus, or halve the rate of ability score improvements. It's too easy to get Charisma to AC, and Charisma is more thematically appropriate than Dexterity.
2. SR 10+1/2HD+Cha mod. This is not quite following the guidelines, which say it should be 11+HD for the standard. The point here is that it leaves room for other anti-magic methods.
3. Bardic Music uses equal to level, with all the uses except Countersong being altered, but at the same level as Bard. Facinate being replaced with a Fear effect, Inspire Courage being replaced with an equivalent penalty and so on.
4. Have it not get actual spellcasting. Large ability modifiers on the casting score causes issues, and using the Bard list would require some alterations to it.
5. If you decide to do a list of abilities, include uses/day SLAs that have uses scale with HD based on spell level, saving list space from multiple entries for SLAs. Something like HD/Spell Level + Charisma Modifer, so a 4th level spell in SLA form gets a use per four HD and a use for each point of Charisma modifier. And have Charisma to Bardic Music uses and some non-stacking common AC bonus as another option. Maybe some more esoteric Bardic Music uses and Bardic Music bonus feats, as well as stuff for the Ruin Elemental.
6. Quickly whip up a mock up post like this for Ruin Elemental so I can give suggestions on that, too! I have some ideas already, but I want to see the statblock for that before I make suggestions
7. Have the Ruin Elemental be a baseline feature , giving a Ruin Elemental of two or three levels below the Ruin Chanter. Going by CR rules, a Ruin Elemental two levels lower should account for 1/3 of the class's power. Then again, those rules also say that combat power should be doubling every two levels, due to how doubling the creatures increases CR by two...
8. Speaking of CR rules, I find advancement CR to be nice PRC territory. For Fey HD, CR increases by 1 per 4 HD, so a fully advanced Ruin Chanter is CR 19. Five CR above the standard version, which means five level PRCs. I'd go with emphasizing debuffs or the Ruin Elemental as the two PRCs.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #2 on:** September 30, 2017, 01:45:55 AM »

Ruin Elemental

(click to show/hide)

Level	BaB	Fort Save	Ref Save	Will Save	Special	Ability Adjustment
1st	+0	+2	+0	+0	Ruin Elemental Body, Ruinous armor 2+Con, Shock Wave, Tremorsense	+1 Str
2nd	+1	+3	+0	+0	Ancient weapon, Rock Fling, Multiattack	+1 Str
3rd	+2	+3	+1	+1	Shift & Shape Shockwave	+1 Str
4th	+3	+4	+1	+1	Improved Multiattack, Ruinous armor +3	+1 Str
5th	+3	+4	+1	+1	Growth, Landmaster	+1 Str
6th	+4	+5	+2	+2	Swift Shockwave	+1 Str
7th	+5	+5	+2	+2	Stone defense	+1 Str
8th	+6/+1	+6	+2	+2	Retaliate (Str mod/day), Ruinous armor +4	+1 Str
9th	+6/+1	+6	+3	+3	Growth, Relentless Shocks	+1 Str
10th	+7/+2	+7	+3	+3	Special ability, Earth Shift	+1 Str

The Ruin Elemental has the following traits as an Elemental:

Class Skills
The Ruin Elemental's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Ruined Gazebo) (Int), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Ruin Elemental Body

(click to show/hide)

Class Features: All of the following are class features of the Ruin Elemental
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Ruin Elementals are proficient with Natural Weapons; it is not proficient with any Armor.

Natural Weapons: The Ruin Elemental starts with two Slam attacks, which start at a 1d8 Bludgeoning Damage.

Ability Increase: The Ruin Elemental gains a +1 Str at each level of this Class for a total of +10 Strength at level 10.

Shock Wave (Ex):A ruin Elemental's primary offensive option is to shake the earth so much as to cause physical harm to creatures within range. As a standard action, it stomps, punches the ground or something similar, to send a powerful quake through the ground, dealing 1d8 + Str modifier damage to all creatures in a 10-foot radius spread around itself (+5 feet per 2 levels it has; 15’ at 2, 20’ at 4, etc). All creatures not of the earth subtype within the radius of the shock wave are treated as if Bull Rushed by the ruin elemental. The ruin elemental receives a +4 bonus on this check for each size category it is larger than the targeted opponent. Creatures that fail the opposed checks are pushed back 5 feet and knocked prone.

This damage increases by 1d8 per 5 character levels it has (2d8 at 5th, 3d8 at 10th, etc), and this attack is also treated as a Natural Weapon for the purposes of increasing in damage size; however, each size increase only increases one die step (d8 to d10 to 2d6 per die to 2d8, etc).

Ruinous armor (Ex): a ruin Elemental has a Natural Armor Bonus equal to its Strength Bonus +2. This bonus increases by a +1 every 4 levels.

Tremorsense (Ex): The ground is a channel through which the Ruin Elemental can see their opponents. The Ruin Elemental gains tremorsense with a range of 10 feet + 5 feet/Hit Die.

Ancient Weapons (Ex): At 2nd level, The Natural Weapons of a Ruin Elemental wields are covered in ageless stone. Its natural attacks bypass damage reduction as magic weapons. At 9th level, its natural attacks bypass DR as adamantine weapons.

Junk Fling (Ex): The Ruin Elemental can use the ground to its advantage. As a standard action, it stops or picks up a rock or a non-living object at least Medium size and makes a Ranged attack using the better of either its Str or Dex modifiers, with the range increments of a Longbow. The attack deals 2d6+Str modifier damage and is considered both Magic and Adamantine for the purposes of bypassing DR.

Multiattack: At 2nd level, the Ruin Elemental gains Multiattack. At level 4, it gains Improved Multiattack (which removes the penalty to secondary natural attacks)

Shift Shockwave By 3rd level, the Ruin Elemental has learned how to control its earth-shaking capabilities. Its Shockwave can now be formed into a cone attack with a base spread of 15 feet (+5' per 2 character levels it has), or into a line with a base range of 30 feet (+5' per character level it has).

Shape Shockwaves: At 3rd level, the Ruin Elemental may add additional Effects to its shockwaves by sacrificing a little damage. These effects are Extraordinary unless otherwise noted.

Ripple: This shockwave creates an effect similar to a wave in the ground. Enemies in the area rise with the wave, then are brought closer to the Ruin Elemental along the reverse-path of the shockwave (radius, cone, line). No bull rush attempt is necessary, but an enemy moving in this way not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Using Ripple costs one die of damage.

Trip: Targets in this shockwave must pass a successful opposed Strength check of DC 10 + 1/2 class level + Str modifier or be triped.
Using Trip costs 1 damage die per 2 targets you wish to affect.

Immobilize: Enemies hit by this shockwave take a Fortitude save DC (10+1/2 your HD +Str modifier) or are unable to move for one round. Enemies without a Con score must still pass a save against this effect.
This ability costs 2 damage dice.

Spiked Rubble: Using spiked rubble activates an effect exactly like the spell Spike Stones, except it's not magic. A successful Reflex save of DC 10 + 1/2 class levels + Str modifier negates quake damage, but not the spiked rubble effect or its damage.
A spiked rubble shockwave only deals half its damage.

Growth (Ex): At 5th level and again at 9th level, the Ruin Elemental grows 1 size category. Each size increase it bears also results in an increase of damage to its Rock Fling 1 die step each time (d8 to d10 to 1d12 to 2d8, etc).

Landmaster (Ex): At 5th level, a ruin Elemental's mastery of land has become too great for the land to hinder them anymore. a ruin Elemental may ignore any negative effects of difficult terrain.

Swift Shockwave (Ex): At 6th level, a ruin Elemental may use its Shockwave as a Swift action.

Stone Defense (Ex): At 7th level, a ruin Elemental is able to protect its body with stone, making up for any lack in dodging ability. A ruin Elemental adds its Fortitude Save modifier to its armor class instead of its Dexterity modifier if the former is higher. The Ruin Elemental still loses its armor class bonus from Fort whenever it would normally lose its Dexterity bonus to armor class.

Retaliate (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, if a target makes a successful Critical Hit or hits with a stun attack that includes a Stun effect against the Ruin Elemental, it may use its choice of Shockwave or Junk Fling as a free action against the creature.

Relentless Shocks (Ex): Beginning at 9th level, the Ruin Elemental may, instead of a full-attack action, replace each of its base iterative attacks with a Shockwave. (E.g: a +6 BaB grants 2 shockwaves; a +12 BaB grants 3 shockwaves, etc).

Special Abilities: On attaining 10th level, a ruin Elemental gains a single special ability of their choice from among the following options:

Invulnerability (Ex): Once per encounter, a ruin Elemental may become invulnerable to many forms of attack. As a swift action, a ruin Elemental may become immune to a single death effect, ability damage, ability drain, negative level, paralysis, stunning, or dazing effect that would affect them.
Defensive Posture (Ex): Ruin Elementals are known for being hardy. Some go to the next level. Once per encounter, if a ruin Elemental would be reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by damage in combat, they may attempt a Fortitude saving throw (DC = damage dealt). If the save succeeds, they take only half damage from the blow; if it fails, they take full damage. The Ruin Elemental must be aware of the attack and able to react to it in order to execute their defensive posture—if they are denied their Constitution (or Dexterity) bonus to armor class, they can’t use this ability. Since this effect would not normally allow a character to make a Fortitude save for half damage, the mettle ability does not apply to the defensive posture.
Quake Mastery: When using their shockwave ability, the Ruin Elemental deals an additional 2d6 damage.
Stone Heart (Ex): a ruin Elemental is tough, both inside and out. Stone heart grants 2 additional hit points per Hit Die it has.
Growth: a ruin Elemental may choose to grow in size a third time instead of gaining a special ability.

Earth Shift: Upon reaching 10th level, the Ruin Elemental finishes its development as a monster and may gain class levels. However, it can gain neither armor proficiency nor weapon proficiency unless it is Unarmed Strikes.

Finally, it may gain a single benefit from the list below to a class it takes after its levels in Ruin Elemental.

If it chooses to advance as a caster or manifester, it adds a +5 effective Caster Level (affecting DC, duration, range, etc) to all spells with an Acid, Earth or Metal descriptor and when summoning creatures with an Earth subtype.
If it gains a companion, it adds its Ruin Elemental level to its effective Druid level for the purposes of gaining a companion with the Earth descriptor or subtype.
If it chooses to further develop its abilities as a Swordsage, it may select both maneuvers and stances from the Stone Dragon and Setting Sun disciplines as if its levels in Ruin Elemental granted it a full 10 Initiator Levels. (This also supersedes the standard restriction of a 1st level Swordsage being restricted selecting a level 1 stance).
If it chooses to advance as an Earthshaker, it progresses as the Earthshaker class from level 11 onwards; however it replaces extra uses of Rock Armor for bonuses to Ruinous Armor, it does not gain any Burrow speed until 15th level, and applies Quake Shapes to its Shockwave instead. All other Quake Shapes cost 3 damage dice to apply to a shockwave; otherwise, they remain un-altered.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #3 on:** September 30, 2017, 10:54:44 AM »

[reserved]

Versatility_Nut · « **Reply #4 on:** September 30, 2017, 11:27:37 PM »

Hmm... Suggestions for Ruin Elemental:

1. 10 levels, obviously, with 5/5 Con/Str progression and 3/4 BAB. Strong Fort save, 6+Int skill points per level and d8 HD. Don't forget Con modifier to NA.
2. Hide, Move Silently, Balance, Knowledge(The Planes), (History), (Religion) and (Local), Craft, Spot and Listen as class skills, maybe with Knowledge(Arcana).
3. Two options lists with options at 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th level, with one list being picked from 2nd, 6th and 10th and the other being 4th, 8th and 10th. One list for battlefield control themed on with increased knockback on Shock Wave, Spike Stone as an SLA and so on, the other being damage oriented and Ruin themed, with Sunder, Area of Effect Shatter and object assimilation as example abilities.
4. Object assimilation requiring objects to be broken, making Sunder not be flat out loot destruction. Rather than limit of assimilated objects in total, limit on GP value of active effects, with weapon and armor abilities with enhancement bonus equivalent costs stacking their value according to normal rules. So getting a +1 Flaming and +1 Freezing weapon means being able to do +1 Flaming Freezing at the normal +3 bonus equivalent cost. Cheaper to get access to, though.
5. Shock Wave being retooled to no longer count as Bull Rush for all purposes, instead acting similarly, but being a different thing. Opposed Strength check, size bonuses applying the same way, move 5 ft. for every 5 the check passes by. Or have it be every 2 or 3 the check passes by, because passing the check by 5 or 10 is pretty rare.
6. Rock Throwing gets a reword to be objects weighing less than a Light Load and a minimum of two sizes below the Ruin Elemental, so that all size modifiers are accounted for. The size restriction is more to avoid Hulking Hurler shenanigans than to remain faithful to the original creature. Also, abilities to make thrown objects more dangerous, like making Caltrops in the impact area, or having the damage formula follow Hulking Hurler standards and
7. Have the Spike Stones immunity extend to all similar effects, like Caltrops. As in damage and movement impairment from the surface of the terrain or things immediately on the surface. Maybe have the ability also cancel movement impairment from uneven ground.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2017, 11:21:45 AM »

That sounds good! THe one thing I'd change drastically is

Quote from: Versatility_Nut on September 30, 2017, 11:27:37 PM

2. Hide, Move Silently

It's a huge elemental of freaking rubble. It's gotta be noisy. I could see Hide working out, but it need to gets an additional ability: Spawn Gazebo Ruins, which activates when hiding.

Versatility_Nut · « **Reply #6 on:** October 07, 2017, 11:04:29 AM »

Good to see a proper draft of the thing. So, let's critique the stuff one by one:

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Fey Body
(click to show/hide)
As a Fey creature, the Ruin Chanter gains the following:
6-sided Hit Dice.
Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 its total Hit Dice (as cleric); this is unlike most Fey, which normally gain 1/2 BaB.
Good Reflex and Will saves.
Low-light vision.
Fey eat, sleep, and breathe.

You actually aren't supposed to define the "chassis" stuff in the Body feature. That's covered by the class itself. The Body feature is for stuff like Low Light Vision, flight and other such racial features.

Quote

Archaic Knowledge : Every Ruin chanter has a special knowledge pertaining to the past and antiquity. He takes a knowledge check with a bonus equal to his Ruin Chanter level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about ancient notable people, legendary items, or what used to be in places before now.

This fails to specify the Knowledge check in question, and Knowledge checks already include Intelligence. It's clearly a history-based Bardic Knowledge, rather than a reputation-based one like the actual Bard. Leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, seeing a flat ripoff of one of the more overwhelming Bard abilities, but it works as a decent skill advantage. For the vast majority of cases, a flat bonus to Knowledge(History) would have the same effect, but Bardic Knowledge has some hefty advantages in how it acts. Also, the pronoun used is supposed to be for the iconic for classes in general, and for the creatures for these monster classes. It's why you see so many uses of "it" and "they(singular)" around here. If you want to use a pronoun, use "she," as the artwork clearly shows a female.

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Word of Breaking (Su): Ruin chanters know how to disrupt just about anything. As a Standard Action, the Ruin Chanter may utter a baleful word with a suitable gesture. He makes a Ranged Touch attack that, upon a hit, deals 1d8 Sonic damage. This damage increases by 1d8 every 3 HD the Ruin Chanter has.
This ranged attack provokes an Attack of Opportunity just as a spellcaster producing a spell would.
The range for this ability is equivalent to a Medium-ranged spell (100' +10/CL).

A basic mechanical issue is that Supernatural abilities don't have a CL by default. Spell like abilities, which use (Sp) for notation, have a default CL equal to the user's HD. The damage scaling is a bit high for my liking, but that's mostly because it's 25% faster scaling than the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, which has plenty of Nice Things found in Invocations. Medium range is perfectly fine, but if you want it to be a Supernatural ability instead of a Spell Like ability, it needs to be defined as 100 ft. range +10 ft. per HD. Overall, it's fine on its own, but improvements don't have much room for damage.

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Ruinous Music (Su): Ruin Chanters weave suffering and tragedy into the world from their musical performance. Once per day per hit die, he can use his song or poetics to produce magical effects on those around him (to any he desires, usually his enemies). While these abilities fall under the category of music and the descriptions discuss chanting or playing music, they can all be activated by reciting poetry, chanting, singing lyrical songs, singing melodies, whistling, or any spoken performance. Each ability requires both a minimum Ruin Chanter level and a minimum number of ranks in the Perform skill (of some vocal performance) to qualify. The most basic of these abilities brings ill effects to enemies that can hear a Ruin Chanter's voice.

...Replace with Bardic Music. This is because there's some really useful things that have Bardic Music as a prerequisite, including one that is a godsend for trying to gish with this thing by letting you trade Bardic Music uses for metamagic or spell slots. At least add a line making it count as Bardic Music for prerequisites, to enable cross-application of feats.

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Projection: Ruin Chanters are feared for their ability to project their voice. A normal use of their Ruinous Music has a Medium-range emanation: 100' +10' per Ruin Chanter HD. However, the Ruin Chanter can opt to Project his music to Long Range (250' +25'/level) if he expends an extra use of his Ruinous Music and takes 2 points of Constitution damage. This use of music is dangerous; this Con damage cannot be cured by magical means such as Fast Healing or a Restoration spell; it must be cured naturally from a state of rest (At least 8 hours); this is provided, of course, that he has the Constitution modifier to heal (at least) 2 points of Constitution damage.

*breaths in* ...Okay, wording is messy. First off, these are actual classes, so it'd be Ruin Chanter level, not Ruin Chanter HD. Second, we use a lot of pure HD scaling. It makes things less problematic for multiclassing once the levels run out. Con damage is pretty bad, but you only need to specify that it can only be healed naturally. It usually doesn't specify magical means, partly because of the existence of non-magical, though not natural, healing, like Psionics and Supernatural abilities. Usually, spell-range equivalence isn't mentioned, as it's redundant when mentioned alongside the numeric range. Personally, I'd have it simply double the range of the effects, allowing for other ranges and range-altering effects to be used.

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Curse Song: A Ruin Chanter with at least 1 rank in Perform may apply baleful magic to all he desires. Those that hear this performance take a -1 penalty to Damage rolls, Fortitude saves, Will saves, and AC. This penalty increases by -1 for every 3 HD the Ruin Chanter has (-2 at 3, -3 at 6, etc).

And here, we begin to see problems. You look to be having the Ruin Chanter counter the Bard's maximum bonus with penalties at level 13, but the point of these classes is that monsters stay appropriate for the CR=ECL guideline, so the scaling of the penalty should be equal to the Bard's bonus. Also, it's missing a (Su) tag, like all the Bard's music abilities have. I'd suggest changing the scaling line to "This penalty increases by -1 at 4 HD and every 4 HD thereafter." That makes it outdo the Bard's bonus at every level, but not by much, capping out at -5 to the Bard's +4 at 20 HD. Also, damage rolls should probably be attack rolls, because reducing the damage of successful impacts seems... contrary to the theme of destruction. This also lacks the wording that makes it take a Ruinous Music use.

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Inspire Incompetence (Su): A 3rd level Ruin Chanter with 6 ranks in Perform may choose to make it more difficult for those around him to accomplish tasks. Anyone that can hear this spoken chant takes a -2 competence penalty to all skill checks, Reflex Saves, and Initiative. The Ruin chanter may choose to exclude any he wishes from this powerful dirge. This penalty increases at level 8 to a -5; every 5 levels further, the penalty increase by 2.5 (so at 13 this penalty is a -7, at 19 it's -10, etc).

Again, you seem to be thinking in terms of 13 Ruin Chanter HD = 20th level character. Or you're overcompensating for the loss of spells. Either way, this scales too fast. And this also lacks the words to make it take a use of Ruinous Music. An alternative is to have that wording be making use of them being filed under Ruinous Music by having Ruinous Music state that the abilities under it all take one use of Ruinous Music. The scaling I'd use is -1 per three HD, which makes it strong enough to severely dent the difference between a Strong save and a Weak save and negate a lot of Dex bonus.

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Command (Sp): A Ruin Chanter of at least 5th level and 8 Perform ranks may spend a use of Ruinous Music to affect a single creature already afflicted by his Curse Song with a Command, like the spell, except that it must be within hearing range of the Chanter. At higher levels, the Chanter may Command multiple creatures affected by its Curse Song.

...Command is very much inappropriate to the theme of destruction and entropy, and Curse Song makes it so that it's considerably less useful. I'd have it be a Fear effect, like the Fear spell. Which synergises with the Curse Song effect.

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Spellbreaker Chant (Su): A 6th-level Ruin Chanter with at least 9 ranks in Perform may take use of its Ruinous Music to make magic difficult to cast in his area. Any spell cast within range of this song has a 16% Spell Failure, +1% per HD it has. Like other songs, if the Ruin Chanter stops concentrating on the song, it will only linger for a limited number of rounds.
This ability does not stack with the Spellbreaker Song feat from Complete Mage, pg 35

This is useless, plain and simple. The standard for spell failure is multiples of 5% because that fits on a d20. The rate of scaling makes this utter trash. I'd have it be 5% per point of Charisma modifier, giving a reasonable ability to get 50% spell failure chance at high levels. Which shuts down the proper usefulness of casters while this thing is up. Also, this doesn't specify how many rounds it lingers after the Ruin Chanter stops concentrating on it.

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Song of Shattering (Su): A 14th level Ruin Chanter with at least 17 ranks in Perform may expend 5 uses of his Ruinous Music to play this unearthly tune. He has two options with this performance.

First, he may cause damage to a single (non-living) object up to 100# per Hit die he has; he focuses his music into the object, which takes 10d12 sonic damage; this damage bypasses all hardness and Damage Reduction.

Second, he may have this song projected as an area-attack. Everything within the area of the chant takes 10d6 Sonic damage. Furthermore, all area-of-effect spells, Powers, and spell-like abilities caught within this tune have a 75% chance of failing outright; when the song encounters these spells, roll %. On a spell/power's failure, it expires and deals 1d12 Sonic damage per spell level to each creature and object caught within its former area-of-effect.

Ruin Chanters and Ruin Elementals are immune to the sonic damage from this ability.

Nonscaling fixed-type energy damage that eats a quarter of the maximum pre-Epic uses of the music. The wording is atrocious, the effect is abysmal at higher levels and it doesn't really work out much at all. It also lacks wording saying how long the spell canceling lasts, so the assumption is that it cancels only existing effects. Which makes it a dispel, which makes the area of effect confusing to calculate as not many duration-having spells have an area of effect. Dealing damage to the target the spell was on before being dispelled makes more sense, mechanically. I'd change this to 1d6 damage per two HD with the Ruinous Music range, with the dispel being a 50% chance baseline, increasing by 5% per HD of the Ruin Chanter and decreasing by 5% per CL of the spell. Then make it use two or three Ruinous Music uses. This makes it worth using later on, while not being overpowered at "lower" levels.

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Armor of Music (Ex): Beginning at level 2, the Ruin Chanter gains solace and protection from suffering. As long as an enemy is affected by his music or under the effects of a Curse Music ability, the Ruin Chanter gains a Morale Bonus to his Armor Class equal to his Charisma modifier.
NB:Morale bonuses do not stack; only the highest one applies.

...You recall that moral bonuses don't stack, but didn't use moral penalties for anything? Those do actually cancel out, with the largest bonus and penalty applying. At any rate, I'd have to bonus be active whenever one of their Ruinous Music effect is active. I'd prefer a penalty to enemy Attack rolls against the Ruin Chanter, to keep up the penalty-based setup, but Curse Song would be producing a Moral Penalty that'd overwrite the Armor of Music ability. More likely, Armor of Music would overwrite the Curse Song penalty. Which is actually not a bad thing.

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Focus on Architecture: As long as the Ruin Chanter has 5 ranks in BOTH Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering) and Knowledge (History), he gets a +3 bonus to each skill. As long as he has 13 ranks in each skill, he gains a +10 bonus to both of them and whenever he rolls a skill check for either skill, he rolls twice and takes the better result.

I approve of the skill boost, but would prefer it to be continuous scaling. As long as they have 5 ranks in both, they get a bonus of 2 less than the ranks they have in the other skill. If they have more than 13 ranks in both, they roll twice and take the better result. This keeps it relevant at higher levels and makes it so you can keep investments in just one of them for the one you use less.

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Call from the Ruins (Ex): At level 4, if he has at least 5 ranks in all of Perform, Knowledge (history) and at least 5 ranks in Knowledge (Architecture & Engineering), the Ruin Chanter can begin great mastery of his domain. For an hour-long ritual, he talks of the past and its grandeur; of its form, its functions now, of the sorrow and loss and all in-between. For this hour, a storm rages (See DMG pg 94), and it is unquenchable, even by magical spells such as Control Weather. However, the Ruin Chanter does not take damage from a storm conjured by this ritual.

At the end of the hour the storm abates, and the Ruin Chanter must make either a Knowledge (History) or a (Architecture & Engineering) check, his choice. A Ruin Elemental appears with Hit Dice equal to 1/3 his total check, ready to do the ruin chanter’s bidding (but if his check is lower than a 3, then no Elemental appears). Since the ruin elemental serves the ruin chanter until the elemental is destroyed, it’s possible for a ruin chanter to have more than one ruin elemental serving it.
A Ruin Chanter may only control 4 more HD of Ruin Elemental than its own HD; therefore, a 7th-level Ruin Chanter may only control up to 11 HD of Ruin Elementals. If one of its Elementals grows in HD beyond his capacity to control it, he may choose which one to keep control of. However, these freed Elementals are likely to remain friendly to the Ruin Chanter that brought it into sentience.
Finally, a Ruin Elemental is treated as if it were a Humanoid, not an elemental, in regards to any ability of the Ruin Chanter's that is Mind-affecting.

Nitpick on the flavor, Ruin Chanters are Entropy obsessed, not History obsessed. They'd be chanting about the endless fall, or the cyclic creation and destruction of civilized things. More importantly, the Ruin Elemental limit needs to be capped to below the Ruin Chanter's own HD, because you're making a monster class for it, and that means a Ruin Elemental of equal HD to the Chanter should be equal in threat. And the way capabilities scale in the game makes it so that it needs to be somewhat exponential. The shorthand Oslecamo prefers is capping it by Challenge Rating, which I'd do as total CR of one less than the Ruin Chanter's HD. This should be rounding error territory, in terms of CR increase, and not worth enough to get it past one above the Ruin Chanter alone.

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Spell Resistance (Ex): A Ruin Chanter's music and its tendency to break things around it eventually translated its body into one with magical resistance. At 7th level, he gains SR equal to 12 + his RHD.

Comes in at seventh level, just in time to LOLnope the harsh shenanigans, slightly better than typical CL scaling to get an average 60% failure rate of spells from casters at the same level as the Ruin Chanter and scales . Although the RHD is very much not the norm, and isn't actually going to work because this is a class, not RHD. Think of the monster classes as Racial Paragon classes, not RHD progression. And the fluff is a bit wrong, it should be about breaking apart the spells themselves.

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Inspire Hatred (Su): At 10th level, with 13 ranks in Perform, the Ruin Chanter can evoke hatred in a single living creature within 30 feet that has an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. At 12th level and every 3 levels thereafter, he may affect an additional creature (two creatures at 12th level, three at 15th, four at 18th, etc). To inspire hatred, you must sing, speak, or perform, and the target must hear you. The target is entitled to a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your bard level + your Cha modifier) to resist this mind-affecting ability. The effect lasts for as long as the target hears you and for 5 additional rounds thereafter.
An affected creature develops an unreasoning hatred of another creature that you indicate. The affected creature attacks the object of its hate as directed, to the exclusion of other opponents. If the affected creature is attacked, it can defend itself as normal, but as soon as possible, it resumes attacking the object of its hate. Creatures compelled to attack an ally can attempt a new Will save each round to break free from this supernatural effect.
This ability otherwise functions exactly like the one described on pg. 21 of Exemplars of Evil, and does not stack.

This should either not mention the Exemplars of Evil version, or only mention the differences, like using Ruin Chanter level instead of Bard level, which is a change that you forgot to make. This also lacks mention of usage limitations, like if it takes a Ruinous Music use or not. "As Inspire Hatred from Exemplars of Evil pg. 21, except..." would be a much more standard formatting of the ability. The preference for internal reliance means that the standard for this "project"/sub-subforum would be to make the edits to the version listed in the class.

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Will not be Silenced (Ex): Beginning at 11th level, a Ruin Chanter's abilities are immune to spells, powers, and effects like Silence that would otherwise suppress and prevent sound in their areas of effect.

I'd move this to 14th level, as it's actually really strong. Or 10th, because it's utterly necessary at higher levels. And I'd have it worded as "At (10th or 14th) level, a Ruin Chanter's sound-based abilities are not negated by immunity to sound-based or Mind Effecting effects, nor do magical or supernatural abilities that negate sound prevent the effects of their abilities."

A general shift to make it a bit less problematic would be making it so that all the Sonic damage can be Acid damage instead. This makes it so that the abilities stay useful in almost all situations, allowing the Ruin Chanter to be dealing damage more frequently

As for option lists that are missing, I'd shuffle things so that there can be an option every three levels, removing some abilities to make room for the options. Stuff like Spellbreaker Chant, Will Not Be Silenced and Command being swapped out for room for entries to pick from a list, including access to Spellbreaker Chant, maybe Will Not Be Silenced and a Fear-effect taking up the role of Command as replacing Facinate. Then you have a place to put bonuses for other abilities, like being able to make Sunder attempts with bonuses with Word of Breaking and being able to trade more than one use of Ruinous Music to increase range of Ruinous Music uses, and the Infirmities and attendant improvements. Also Spike Stones, a surprisingly emphasized ability, given the Ruin Elemental's immunity to Spike Stones, specifically.

An alternative for having the option lists in the class table is to use Invocations for the role of options, making the ability removals anyways, but not needing the naming convention. Invocations count as Arcane casting for CL, which is used for several feats and some PRC entries. This qualifies them for Eldritch Disciple, which is is a 9/10 Divine progression, missing progression on the 1st level, and 10/10 Invocation progression PRC. This makes fairly high level Druid casting able to be gotten without sacrificing some aspects of the Ruin Chanter progression.

Having Ruinous Music qualify as Bardic Music for effects enables the use of stuff like Dirgesinger, which gives continued progression that's designed under the assumption of not progressing normal Bardic Music, so you aren't losing a whole lot of power. Also Bardic feats, which have a bundle of extra uses for Bardic Music. Requiem, a prerequisite for Dirgesinger, lets Bardic Music last half its normal duration when used on Undead, while also bypassing the mind-affecting immunity Undead have.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2017, 03:40:39 AM »

Thank you for the feedback! I've made a few changes that were helpful.

TL;DR: Please design the Ruin Elemental on Post 2!! This way we can both contribute to this project~

Quote from: Versatility_Nut on October 07, 2017, 11:04:29 AM

It's clearly a history-based Bardic Knowledge, rather than a reputation-based one like the actual Bard. Leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, seeing a flat ripoff of one of the more overwhelming Bard abilities, but it works as a decent skill advantage. For the vast majority of cases, a flat bonus to Knowledge(History) would have the same effect, but Bardic Knowledge has some hefty advantages in how it acts.

The Ruin Chanter, as a monster entry, is a BARELY-CONCEALED Bardic ripoff. This, at least, creates something new in the bardic tradition. It can benefit both a monster if it is used by a GM...AND is useful as a PC.

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Ruinous Music (Su)...At least add a line making it count as Bardic Music for prerequisites, to enable cross-application of feats.

I love this suggestion. I don't want to RUIN that bad taste in your mouth

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Projection *breaths in* [snip]

Thanks on the wording! I needed that. I'll keep the abuse-potential down; Long range is plenty good.

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Inspire Incompetence (Su)...this also lacks the words to make it take a use of Ruinous Music. An alternative is to have that wording be making use of them being filed under Ruinous Music by having Ruinous Music state that the abilities under it all take one use of Ruinous Music.

Excellent! Updated the intro to Ruinous music so that I'd have every use covered. I like the scaling I have already. It's definitely compensating for a lack of Caster Level, and allowing the Ruin Chanter to be a crippling debuffer.

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Spellbreaker Chant (Su)The standard for spell failure is multiples of 5% because that fits on a d20. The rate of scaling makes this utter trash. [...] Also, this doesn't specify how many rounds it lingers after the Ruin Chanter stops concentrating on it.

I hesitate to allow spell failure based on CHA mod; there's so many ways to make it sky-high. But I see where you're coming from. Noticed that I'd actually left most of the song abilities with unspecified durations; they're fixed!!

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Song of Shattering (Su)Which makes it a dispel, which makes the area of effect confusing to calculate as not many duration-having spells have an area of effect. Dealing damage to the target the spell was on before being dispelled makes more sense, mechanically. I'd change this to 1d6 damage per two HD with the Ruinous Music range, with the dispel being a 50% chance baseline, increasing by 5% per HD of the Ruin Chanter and decreasing by 5% per CL of the spell. Then make it use two or three Ruinous Music uses. This makes it worth using later on, while not being overpowered at "lower" levels.

Actually, your suggestion makes me even more confused

Would you mind simply rewording this power to how you think it should read?

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Call from the Ruins (Ex)
Nitpick on the flavor, Ruin Chanters are Entropy obsessed, not History obsessed. They'd be chanting about the endless fall, or the cyclic creation and destruction of civilized things. More importantly, the Ruin Elemental limit needs to be capped to below the Ruin Chanter's own HD, because [logic]

Awesome.

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A general shift to make it a bit less problematic would be making it so that all the Sonic damage can be Acid damage instead. This makes it so that the abilities stay useful in almost all situations, allowing the Ruin Chanter to be dealing damage more frequently

As for option lists that are missing, I'd shuffle things so that there can be an option every three levels [...]

While these are meritorious ideas, the objective is to provide a re-design of a monster, not make a new Base Class.

That said, I strongly recommend you design the Ruin Elemental on the second post of this thread; this way, we've both contributed to this project, and that way I know you have some skin in the game

Not even going to consider the idea of Invocations. Again, this is a monster class re-design, not a Base Class creation.

oslecamo · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2017, 10:28:01 PM »

Initial overview:
-Word of Breaking feels like it should have a smaller range, at least at early levels. If you grab an horse it's pretty easy to just kite stuff.
-Spellbreaker chant seems way too nasty since it affects a pretty big area and shouldn't be that hard to get +10 Cha mod for 100% spell failure. Would suggest halving the starting failure change and cap or something.
-Song of shattering's cap on dispelled spells is unclear how it would work when targeting multiple dudes. Do you decide who to try to dispel first?
-if you're making another monster class for Call from the Ruins and you get to control up to HD, doesn't that mean you're basically controling two full level characters, one fully expendable with a 1 hour ritual? And you can just spam and free them at the rate of 1/hour? That sounds more like of an apocalypse scenario than anything else (cheap pun is cheap).

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2017, 12:49:33 AM »

Quote from: oslecamo on October 17, 2017, 10:28:01 PM

-Song of shattering's cap on dispelled spells is unclear how it would work when targeting multiple dudes. Do you decide who to try to dispel first?

- Song of Shattering, when working like Greater Dispel Magic, can strip away MANY spells. The aforementioned spell in the PHB and SRD covers area target-priority in excellent detail.

oslecamo · « **Reply #10 on:** October 21, 2017, 10:38:57 AM »

Could you point out the detail that prioritize one target over the other? Because I honestly don't see any in dispel magic's text. Say, there's a dozen creatures each with one buff and you can dispel only up to six, which ones get dispelled?

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #11 on:** October 24, 2017, 01:54:44 AM »

Sure thing! Here's Dispel Magic on the SRD. But fromthe original source:

Quote from: PHB 223

Area Dispel

When dispel magic is used in this way, the spell affects everything within a 20-foot radius.

For each creature within the area that is the subject of one or more spells, you make a dispel check against the spell with the highest caster level. If that check fails, you make dispel checks against progressively weaker spells until you dispel one spell (which discharges the dispel magic spell so far as that target is concerned) or until you fail all your checks.

So an area-dispel starts with the highest-caster level spells FIRST; this automatic priority is ignored in a single-target dispel, which allows you to pick the spell effects you want to end (and only then if you have Spellcraft can you identify the spells instead of just seeing the effects). Hmm...May want to add Spellcraft...

oslecamo · « **Reply #12 on:** October 24, 2017, 02:15:58 AM »

What happens in the case where are multiple creatures with buffs of the same CL? Which creatures do you dispel first? Your choice, or randomized?

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #13 on:** October 25, 2017, 12:55:47 PM »

Quote from: oslecamo on October 24, 2017, 02:15:58 AM

What happens in the case where are multiple creatures with buffs of the same CL? Which creatures do you dispel first? Your choice, or randomized?

As with any ruling about Dispel Magic, in which case this could happen, it is not for me to decide, but the particular GM; the openness to interpretation/ruling seems like a safe way to go here.

oslecamo · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2017, 04:02:48 AM »

Quote from: ~Corvus~ on October 25, 2017, 12:55:47 PM

Quote from: oslecamo on October 24, 2017, 02:15:58 AM
What happens in the case where are multiple creatures with buffs of the same CL? Which creatures do you dispel first? Your choice, or randomized?

As with any ruling about Dispel Magic, in which case this could happen, it is not for me to decide, but the particular GM; the openness to interpretation/ruling seems like a safe way to go here.

Leaving it open it's not really safe, just lazy. You could do something simple enough as "randomize" or "closest first". Or simply remove the "Cha mod spells" limitation since it's not in the original monster and base dispel isn't exactly stellar in the first place.

Now first glance at the Ruin Elemental:
-Why a third secondary slam attack? The original monster has only two and having the same type of natural weapon as both primary and secondary just feels weird.
-Ripple does not say how closer they get to the ruin elemental, and as no-save forced movement is ripe open for aoo chain set ups.
-Bonus to ability scores just because of growth are not welcome here, and even less ability penalties for growing.
-The original monster can use quake as a spread. As a swift action. Your class cannot do either. I understand you're in love with the earthshaker class, but a ruin elemental should be a ruin elemental, not an earthshaker with a different paint job. You can't just throw away the monster's iconic abilities.
-Lacks any kind of proper long-range attack for dealing with fliers. The original monster at least has giant style rock throwing.
-Also lacking the original's spike stone immunity, plus low-light vision not seems to be there either.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #15 on:** December 12, 2017, 12:41:04 PM »

Isn't it strange that I'm getting feedback well before I was ready to have it? Ah well, it's appreciated all the same. I thought of the Earthshaker as a good launching-off point, since it scales well on a per-level basis.

Edit: made some changes and Im ready for more feedback.

oslecamo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 13, 2017, 06:53:12 AM »

My feedback right now is that you're still overcomplicating dispel magic for no benefit.

EDIT: Why does Ruin Elemental has LA? Half the reason for this project is removing LA. Adding LA completely misses the point of doing monster classes in the first place. If you consider +2 LA worth critical immunity and +2 against necromancy, just remove those and call it a day. You've already made it vulnerable to sneak attacks anyway.

Also monster classes can multiclass by default here, so the capstone doesn't make much sense.

Otherwise looking better than before, less of a repaint job.

~Corvus~ · « **Reply #17 on:** December 13, 2017, 03:21:55 PM »

Quote from: oslecamo on December 13, 2017, 06:53:12 AM

My feedback right now is that you're still overcomplicating dispel magic for no benefit.

Fixed it!

Quote from: oslecamo on December 13, 2017, 06:53:12 AM

Why does Ruin Elemental has LA? Half the reason for this project is removing LA. Adding LA completely misses the point of doing monster classes in the first place. If you consider +2 LA worth critical immunity and +2 against necromancy, just remove those and call it a day. You've already made it vulnerable to sneak attacks anyway.

[...]the capstone doesn't make much sense.

I guess I could do something by giving it no Con and making it still subject to things that require Fort saves.

I find that an incentive of an ascendant capstone to be very attractive.

Archon · « **Reply #18 on:** December 14, 2017, 08:20:00 AM »

Ruin elemental appears to be missing it's initial size, and the action for it's shockwave.

oslecamo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 18, 2017, 09:11:08 AM »

Well those appeared to have been solved, so all that's left to add is a ruin elemental pic.

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Author Topic: Ruin Chanter & Ruin Elemental (Read 7972 times)