Author Topic: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!  (Read 11318 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« on: November 07, 2011, 05:17:17 AM »
Introduction
As you may know, 3.5 allows you to play monsters as PCs, but with a cost: LA and RHD.

However, most monsters out there weren't designed for player use, and end up with fat LAs to keep the players away from powerfull abilities like greater teleport at will.

Plus, monsters with higher HD than CR also aren't very usefull for players.

And then, the players have to deal with many of their monster abilities don't improving with leveling up.

In this thread, I'll pick up popular monsters and re-design them to be useable by players, so that they can play any monster with CR X by level X. I'll acomplish this by:
-Adjusting RHD to always match the player's level to don't punish/reward them against level dependant abilities.
-Reducing huge ability bonus and natural armor.
-Making monster special abilities level dependant so they keep increasing.
-Cut down most abuseable abilities to keep the power level in check. No stuff like teleport at will at level 5.

Since a lot of this classes change your size, I'm posting a table here to show exactly what you get when you change size.

FAQ:
Do I need to take those classes at 1st level?
Yes, unless you go for the monster templates, wich are mostly treated as Prcs which you can take when you meet the pre-reqs.

What languages do monsters know?
Common plus any language specific to their race plus one extra language per point of Int bonus.


No ability penalties?
Nope. In some cases as appropriate, but used sparingly.


Do I need to take all the levels or can I just take what I want and then go to other class?

Just like a normal class, you can leave a monster class at any level up and then even come back later if you wish. You aren't suposed to mix diferent monster classes togheter however. Do it at your own risk. I created a couple feats here that allow you to multiclass between monster classes.

I see a lot of abilities based on HD. Do they count extra HD such as the ones from Bardic Inspiration?
No. Count only your class HD  (both monster and any other class levels you took) for any ability that is based on HD, not from any other source such as a bard's song.


What's my starting size with a monster class?

Normally described on the start of the class, otherwise medium sized.

What's this lose all racial bonus thingy?
Basicaly, these classes count as both initial race and class, so you can't be an human/ogre mage. You're just an ogre mage.

I want to play a spellcaster monster!
Monsters that cast as "class X" like the dragon and Rakshasa will stack their spellcasting with the respective classes.

Other monsters like the mind flayer don't actualy cast as "class X", but if they multiclass to certain caster classes they gain powerful bonus. Notice however this only works towards actual base classes that grant spellcasting, not prestige classes that grant spellcasting out of nowhere like ur-priest and chamaleon.

If it isn't clear for you what spell slots you gain with those monsters, here's some tables with the main progressions laid down for you
(click to show/hide)
In the cases where the table shows zero spell slots, the character still gains bonus spells for high mental stats as usual for the class.

 If you want a dragon that casts as a full sorceror, I point you for the fact that not even WOTC dragons cast as a full sorceror.

In alternative, take just one level of monster and then go fullcaster. Or polymorph yourself.

What's the Caster Level for the SLAs?

Unless otherwise specified, the Caster level for any SLAs is equal to your total HD.

What's the Starting Gold for 1st level monsters?
100 GP for simplification's sake. Enough to take care of basic gear, whitout being overpowered.

I don't want to grow!
If a monster class would make you grow but you would rather stay in your previous size, you may instead simply gain a +2 to a physical stat of your choice. This includes changeable growths like the elemental classes have, but once done the decision is permanent.

Do I need to buy new equipment when I permanently grow?

No, the character is assumed to be able to convert all its normally worn equipment to the new size with 8 hours of work/meditation/simple stretching, depending on the exact nature of the monster.

When not otherwise specified, is natural weapon damage given for a medium-sized creature or for a creature of the size the monster is assumed to have achieved? For instance, if you gain a trample attack at 10th level but grew one size at 8th level. Is it assumed the monster grew, even if the player took the option to not grow and instead took the +2 to a physical ability score?
Natural weapon damage given in a monster class assume that the monster grew whenever possible by the class.

Growth modifiers
(click to show/hide)

I combined two monster classes with gestalt/monster hybrid and now I'm suposed to grow beyond colossal! What happens?

Your character's space and reach increase by 10 feet, height is doubled, its natural armor increases by an extra 1, its natural weapons increase one die size, gain an extra +4 on grapple/bullrush/trip and similar maneuvers that care about size.

Ability X says I can re-roll in Y situation. Can I re-roll all I want?

Of course not. You get just one re-roll per event.

Do long creatures get bigger carryng capacity as horses do?
Yes.

What counts as fine manipulation?
Wielding weapons/shields, somatic components for spells, crafting, professions such as smithing, using scrolls/wands/staffs, thief's tools, healing kits, disguise kits, fueling a lamp, etc.

I want to use Empower Spell-Like Ability/Extend Supernatural Ability/Polymorph, is my Class Feature Extraordinary/Supernatural/Spell-Like/Natural/Untyped?
Many Class Features were not appropriately marked, I regret nothing since I'm not being paid for this. Unless noted otherwise follow this order.
-Polymorph/Shapechange/similar automatically fail to replicate any monster class abilities.
-If it says it's a SLA, it counts as a SLA.
-If the present players (DM not included) all agree that the ability should be Ex/Su/Natural, then it is so.
-If no agreement is reached (or there's only one present player), a 1d3 is rolled, with 1 meaning the ability is Ex, 2 is Su, 3 is Natural.

What are the favored classes for each monster race?

Unless pointed out otherwise, each monster race can pick any one class to be their favored one, and the monster levels themselves count as their favored class too.

Why are outsiders/X not proficient with all martial weapons?
-Because it just doesn't make much sense something like an Hellhound should automatically know how to use bows. Unless otherwise noticed, a monster class only gains the proficiencies on their description. This includes that monster classes have no proficiency with any armor or shield unless explicitly stated otherwise in their own entry.

Can I use those monster classes, as a DM, and get roughly 1 CR per level or should I use the monster instead? Should I use plain 10-11 or elite array? Is it desirable to mix those monstruous classes for he players in conjunction with the monster in the manuals to start with?

-Yes, the end result should still be roughly 1 CR per level using the Elite Array. I frequently use monster classes from the DM's side. It is also fine to still use regular monsters straight from the books, I've had other people comment on how they use the "normal" monsters for regular expendable mooks and then use the monster classes for handcrafting more customized opponents. Another nice thing is allowing to make "lesser" versions of stronger monsters. In the other hand remaking all monsters for a campaign is a bit of work.

The one thing that should not be mixed is regular monster stats and monster class in the same individual monster, in particular since all the HD-based effects may go bonkers as many book monsters get to have a lot more HD than their CR.

Is outsider X an extraplanar outsider or native outsider?
-Unless otherwise noted in the entry, outsider monster classes count as extraplanar outsiders.

I'm in a gestalt game or multiclassed and now I'm adding an ability score twice to the same ability for some huge bonus!
-Unless otherwise noted in the entry, you can only add an ability score once to attack/AC/saves/skills even if you have multiple class abilities that would allow you to do so. If each ability granted a bonus of different type (like Deflection and Natural AC), then you can pick which one to benefit from but once this choice is made it cannot be changed.

And here's two classic D&D monsters as example, the red dragon and troll:

Red dragon




HD:d12
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Feature
1+1 +2 +0 +2 Red Dragon body, Fire Breath, +1 Str
2+2 +3 +0 +3 Keen senses, Arcane Blood
3+3 +3 +1 +3 Blindsense 60 feet, Str+1, Con+1
4+4 +4 +1 +4 Wings, +1 Con
5+5 +4 +1 +4 Tail slap, Growth
6+6 +5 +2 +5 Sugestion, +1 Cha
7+7 +5 +2 +5 +1 Str, +1 Con, Firey Arcana
8+8 +6 +2 +5  Locate Object,  +1 Cha
9+9  +6 +3 +6 +1 str, +1 con, Greed
10+10 +7 +3 +7 Fire Lord, +1 Cha
11+11 +7 +3 +7 Arcane Skin, +1 Str
12+12 +8 +4+8 Iron Scales, +1 Con, +1 Cha
13+13 +8 +4 +8 Growth, Crush, Frightful presence, +1 Str
14+14 +9 +4 +9Hellfire, +1 Str, +1 Con
15+15 +9 +5 +9 Burn, +1 Cha
16+16 +10 +5 +10 Firey Arcana, +1 str, +1 con
17+17 +10 +5 +10 Revenge, +1 Cha
18+18 +11+6 +11 Find the Path, +1 str, +1 Con
19 +19 +11 +6 +11 Wrath, +1 Str, +1 Cha
20  +20 +12 +6 +12 Growth, Tail sweep, Discern location
2 Skill points+int per level, quadruple at 1st level. Class skills: Concentration, climb, jump, spot, listen, apraise, intimidate, Knowledge(any), Search, Spellcraft.

Proficiencies: a red dragon isn't proefecient with any armor or weapons, besides his own natural weapons.


Features:

Dragon Body:
The red dragon loses all other racial bonuses, and gains Dragon traits, fire subtype, bite 1d8 damage+Str mod, 2 claws attack for 1d6 +1/2 Str mod damage each and 40 base speed, medium size. The Red dragon has wings, but they're too weak to do anything for now. His claws are capable of fine manipulation and can be used for somatic components of spellcasting or anything else a human hand could do.

The red dragon also gets a natural armor bonus of 2+Con modifier. Whenever the red dragon grows one size category, his natural armor increases by a further 1.


The red dragon has immunity to fire, but takes 50% more damage from cold attacks.

Fire Breath:
The red dragon can fire a cone of 30 feet dealing 1d6 fire damage/HD with DC ref of 10+1/2 HD+Con modifier for half every 1d4 turns. Cone increases by 5 feet with each extra HD the player takes from here.

Arcane Blood:A red dragon receives spells known and spells per day as a sorceror of 2/3 his level, but he has CL equal to his HD.
If he multiclasses as a sorceror, the casting stacks.

Dragon level Sorceror casting
1-
21
32
42
53
64
74
85
96
106
117
128
138
149
1510
1610
1711
1812
1912
2013

If a dragon takes a casting prc, it may choose to advance his casting as that of a sorceror. So a dragon 10/loremaster 10 would cast as a 16th level sorceror.


Ability score increase:
The red dragon ability scores increase by the shown amount.

Level Total bonus gained
1+1 Str
3 +2 Str, +1 Con
4 +2 Str, +2 Con
6 +2 Str, +2 Con, +1 Cha
7 +3 Str, +3 Con, +1 Cha
8 +3 Str, +3 Con, +2 Cha
9 +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 Cha
10 +4 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
11 +5 Str, +4 Con, +3 Cha
12 +5 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha
12 +6 Str, +5 Con, +4 Cha
14 +7 Str, +6 Con, +4 Cha
15 +7 Str, +6 Con, +5 Cha
16 +8 Str, +7 Con, +5 Cha
17 +8 Str, +7 Con, +6 Cha
18 +9 Str, +8 Con, +6 Cha
19 +10 Str, +8 Con, +7 Cha
NOTE:this table presents the TOTAL bonus gained for ease of keeping count! Don't add the values from diferent levels!

Keen senses:At 2nd level the red dragon sees four times as well as a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision  out to 120 feet.

Blindsense:
as the normal ability, range 60 feet.


Wings:
At 4th level the red dragon becomes able to fly at the speed of 10 feet per HD, with poor maneuverability. The maneuverability doesn't increase naturaly, but players can take the Savage Species feat that increases it by two steps(stackable). Each wing can also be now used to deliver a natural atack dealing 1d4+1/2 str mod damage.

Growth:
At 5th level the red dragon grows to large size.
                At 13th level the red dragon grows to huge size.
                At 20th level the red dragon grows to gargantuan size.

His AC, bonus to hit, base damage, grapple and skills change acordingly, but he doesn't get any ability score bonus or penalties.

Tail slap:
The red dragon can now make a tail slap attack dealing 1d8 +1,5 str modifier damage (already taking in acount large size).

Red dragon SLAs:At 6th level the red dragon can use Sugestion as a SLA 1/day per 3 HD it has.

At 8th level it can use locate object as a SLA 1/day per 4 HD it has.

Save DCs are 10+1/2 HD+Cha mod.

Firey Arcana: At 7th and 16th level the red dragon adds one  spell with the fire descriptor of a level he can cast to his list of spells known.

Greed:At 9th level a red dragon can instantly discern the monetary value of any objects in his view. He can also memorize the number and type of each item and notice if anything is missing or added to that group of items with a new glance.

Fire Lord:
At 10th level a red dragon casts spells with the [Fire] descriptor at +2 caster level and ignores any limit on caster level on such spells.


Arcane skin:
At 11th level the red dragon gains SR equal to his HD+11.

Iron Scales:
At 12th level the red dragon gains DR/magic equal to half his HD.

Crush:
At 13th level the dragon can make a crush attack dealing 2d8 damage base, already taking in acount huge size
(click to show/hide)

Frightful presence:
The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dragon attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Enemies within a radius of 30 feet × half the dragon's level are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dragon. A potentially affected enemy that succeeds on a Will save (DC 10 + ½ dragon’s HD + dragon’s Cha modifier) remains immune to that dragon’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, enemies with 4 or less HD become panicked  for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore the frightful presence of other dragons.

Hellfire: At 14th level the red dragon's flame burns hotter than anyone can measure. The red dragon's breath weapon ignores fire resistance from any target equal to his own HD. If a creature is immune to fire, it instead counts as having Fire Resistance 30 (that's then reduced by the red dragon's HD).

Burn:At 15th level, as a free action a number of times per day equal to his Cha mod, the Red Dragon can make his breath weapon persist and keep dealing damage on the same area. This lasts for a number of rounds equal to the dragon's HD, but deals 1 less damage dice for every turn that passes.

Revenge: At 17th level, whenever the red dragon is damaged or hindered in any way by an oponent, he automatically knows that oponent's location for 1 round. If the red dragon can't actually see this oponent then he still counts as having total concealment against the red dragon.


Find the path:
At 18th level the red dragon can now use find the path as a SLA 1/day for each 5HD it has.

Wrath:
At 19th level, 1/day per 6 HD, the red dragon can enter a state of pure destructive rage as a free action. He gains a bonus on attack and damage rolls, to Str, Con and Cha equal to 1/3 his HD. This rage lasts 3+(enanched) Con mod rounds, after wich the Red Dragon is exhausted.


Tail sweep:
This special attack allows a dragon of at least Gargantuan size to sweep with its tail as a standard action. The sweep affects a half-circle with a radius of 30 feet (or 40 feet for a Colossal dragon), extending from an intersection on the edge of the dragon’s space in any direction. Creatures within the swept area are affected if they are four or more size categories smaller than the dragon. A tail sweep automatically deals 2d6 plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Affected creatures can attempt Reflex saves to take half damage (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon).

Discern location:the red dragon can now use discern location as a SLA 1/day for each 5HD it has.


Personal coments:
(click to show/hide)

Troll

HD:d8
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Feature
1 +0+2+0+0Troll body, Reckless Assault, Shrug it off, Str+1, Con+1
2 +1+3+0+0 Scent, Hunter Leap, Str+1, Con+1
3 +2+3+1+1  Rend, Lunging Throw Str+1, Con+1
4 +3+4+1+1 Regeneration, Tear Trough, Str+1, Con+1
5 +3+4+1+1  Growth , Overrun, Str+1, Con+1

Skills: 2+int modifier per level, quadruple at first level. Class skills:
spot, listen, climb, jump, swim, knowledge(nature, geography, war), handle animal, intimidate.

Proficiencies: all simple weapons and his own natural weapons.

Features:
Troll body: the troll loses all other racial bonuses, and gains giant traits(basically low light vision), a base speed of 30 feet, two claw attacks dealing 1d4+Str mod each and one bite attack dealing 1d4+1/2 Str mod damage . He also gains a natural armor bonus equal to his own Con modifier.

Reckless Assault:Trolls are infamous for throwing themselves at their oponents while trusting their own toughness to endure whenever the oponent throws back at them. Whenever the troll charges or full attacks, he may make an extra claw or bite attack at his highest attack bonus, but causes an attack of oportunity from their oponent. If this attack of oportunity misses, the troll may make a new bite or claw attack, provoking a new attack of oportunity, and so on. The troll cannot gain a number of bonus attacks bigger than his own HD this way, neither those extra attakcs can trigger Rend when the troll gets the ability (they're just too reckless to set up a good tearing!)

Shrug it off: At first level a troll's regeneration still isn't fully developed, but they're already able to quickly recover with mere seconds of rest. As a standard action, a number of times per day equal to his Con modifier, the Troll may heal itself for an amount of HP equal to HDxCon modifier.

At 3 HD, this ability automatically triggers should the Troll be droped below 0 HP.

Ability score increase:a troll gains +1 Str and +1 Con for each level in this class.

Scent:At 2nd level, a Troll gains the scent extraordinary ability, as the standard SRD ability.

Hunter Leap: At 2nd level, a Troll performing a charge can choose to fling itself trough the air. It can only move up to his speed (instead of twice), but counts as flying for all purposes, so ignores dificult terrain and can leap over a chasm, or reach flying targets. If it finishes it's charge on the air, then it falls back on the ground and takes damage as apropriate.


Lunging Throw: After centuries of running after agile preys while being too lazy to run faster themselves, trolls developed a natural talent for usinng thrown weapons to slow down their oponents. At 3rd level, if the Troll moves at least 10 feet on the direction of a target and then hits it with a thrown weapon, it must make a reflex save with DC 10+1/2HD+Str mod or be unable to move for 1 round (it can still attack/use items/cast, just not move). If the hit oponent was flying, it drops 10 feet for every point it failed the save. If this makes it hit the ground, it takes falling damage as apropriate.

Rend:At 3rd level, if a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+1,5 Str modifier points of damage.

Regeneration: At 4th level the Troll gains regeneration equal to half his HD. Fire and acid deal normal damage to a troll. If a troll loses a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 3d6 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.

Tear trough:At 4th level, as the Troll's regeneration awakens, it becomes even more reckless, allowing him to suffer grievous injuries in order to push trough traps and hazards at any cost. Whenever the troll would roll a save, it may deal Claw damage to itself as an immediate action and add half the self-inflicted damage as an Insight bonus on that save.

Growth:At 5th level the troll grows one size category.

Overrun: 1/day for every 2 HD it has, the Troll may push it's body to the limits. As a fullround action, it can move up to twice it's speed, ignoring hard terrain and even moving over oponents, while delivering one claw attack to every oponent he passes trough (no more than one attack per oponent), or alternatively full attack one single oponent at any time during the move. The troll causes attacks of oportunity as normal for moving, but in the turn this ability is used, and for a number of turns equal to his Con modifier afterwards, he automatically heals an amount of HP equal to his HD every time it's damaged (except if the source of damage is fire or acid).

Skraag: When taking this class, you may choose to be a skraag, an aquatic troll. In that case at 1st level your base speed is just 20 foot but you gain a swim speed equal to twice your base speed, and your regeneration only works when you're sugmerged in water.

Comments:
(click to show/hide)

« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 11:48:42 PM by oslecamo »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 05:26:19 AM »
Since I'm quite busy in RL, I'll be adding the old monsters to the new thread as time allows and updating the index correspondingly.

To those of you who are puting your own monsters up from the old thread here as well, thank you and I'll also be adding them to the index!

Gotta improve them all!


Offline Prime32

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Offline oslecamo

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 08:32:30 AM »
Not really, I was just kinda used to that style. Removed the main class spoilers, and will be removing them as I port new ones. It does look better that way, thanks for the advice!

Offline picklejuice

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2013, 02:13:57 PM »
Is there a discussion thread highlighting each of the monster types (outsider, undead, etc) and marking which abilities in it should be available at what level? Immunities, not needing to eat or sleep, no critical hits or flanking, etc?

I'm guessing we're not concerned, here, with fiddly bits like the full explicitly spelled out "race" description including: Description, Personality, Physical description, Relations, Alignment, Lands, Religion, Language, Names, Adventurers, Ability mods at 1st level, Size, Speed, Vision, Weapon familiarity, Languages, and Favored class. That's fine. Most of that is campaign-specific anyway, and this is just a straight rules and abilities homebrew.

Assuming it's already been discussed ad nauseum, where can I find a link to the nausious discussion of the "no ability penalties" thing I see in the core FAQ? I'm sure my concerns have already been voiced and I'd like to read about it on my own time rather than waste yours or the mods time asking them again.

Thanks!

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2013, 02:30:22 PM »
Is there a discussion thread highlighting each of the monster types (outsider, undead, etc) and marking which abilities in it should be available at what level? Immunities, not needing to eat or sleep, no critical hits or flanking, etc?

It's covered under the classes themselves. You get all the benefits from level one, with a single exception--that being that incorporeal undead don't start incorporeal. Or flying.

Offline Threadnaught

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2013, 03:21:54 PM »
Is there a discussion thread highlighting each of the monster types (outsider, undead, etc) and marking which abilities in it should be available at what level? Immunities, not needing to eat or sleep, no critical hits or flanking, etc?

There's FireInTheSky's tables in this thread.

It doesn't show immunities, but it does show casting, flight and types.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Introduction and FAQ-Read this first!
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2013, 07:29:35 PM »
Please post questions that aren't specific to any single monster in the discussion thread. I've replied to picklejuice there.