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Gaming Discussion => D&D 5e => Topic started by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 23, 2016, 03:23:52 PM

Title: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 23, 2016, 03:23:52 PM
edit ---- retitled, with more previews.


ninja'd Wilb ... didn't know my kitty avatar could do that so early in the morning  :eh

Product link
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/volos-guide-to-monsters


Firbolg link (also on the one above)
http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/Volo_Firbolg107.pdf

Just a smidgen of powercreep.  Wis +2, Str +1.
Short Rest Detect Magic, ~Disguise are o.k.
but the sub-Invisible, will get lots of use.
SoBaL is right up Druid's alley.
Q1 ... I'm wondering if a Wisdom based Monk could work ?
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on October 24, 2016, 01:02:15 AM
I don't quite see the power creep other than it being the first +2 Wisdom race, not counting Variant Human taking a +1 Wisdom feat.  What build would want to use that race that wouldn't benefit more from a different race?  Hidden Step won't get a ton of use since it's once a short rest.  It's a nice ambush tool but I'm hard-pressed to come up with an ambushing build that doesn't already have similar tools built into it.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: Wilb on October 24, 2016, 11:00:43 AM
Damnit! Your kitty distracted my giant eye and I've let this happen!!!

Well, Volo's seems to bring something interesting to the table, and the other previews showing "more of the same" to us old timers, with ceremorphosis, neothelids, alhoons and beholderkin.

But this Firbolg is a travesty! Voadkyn + Volodni much to the freaks at WotC? They are grotesque and their lore is like "Svirfneblin but furrier, fey-er and larger" and no names as well, and throw utter devotion to nature, to give it an elfin touch....
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 24, 2016, 04:40:30 PM
hmm
 
I'm thinking the 3 short rest level ~1s,
compare well to the Magical Training feat.
Hidden Step is > any Hide action.


Zendikar has Elves and 1 Merfolk , with +2 Wis.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: sambojin on October 24, 2016, 05:22:30 PM
Since racials carry over to WS as a druid unless they're specifically overridden by it, it does give you a bit of leeway from the item-pinata effect when dropping down to weaker/smaller forms. And some pretty silly carrying capacities in larger forms too.

Get yourself an enlarge spell cast on you, and you can pretend that you're the giant eagle from Golden Axe, carrying small armies around on your back while cruising to your destination.


There's a few things that might be useful with Hidden Step as well. Mostly things that are "Use an Item", but aren't an attack persay. Be prepared to Rules Lawyer your way through a debate of who caused the saving throw the creature had to take. You, the creature itself, or the caltrops/ball bearing/flaming oil they're now in :)

It's a good skill anyway, but there seems to be quite a bit of jiggle room available in the wording for certain situations and spells.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on October 25, 2016, 10:13:06 AM
Quote from: awaken_D_M_golem on October 24, 2016, 04:40:30 PM
Zendikar has Elves and 1 Merfolk , with +2 Wis.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf

I forgot about those since I haven't seen them mentioned much since a month or so after that Planeshift came out.

I haven't seen anyone use those in optimization outside of the original topic here.  The Kor's Lucky feature would be enough to make me consider them for any wisdom class even though they only get +1.  The probability protection has to outweigh the boost to an ability score with an upper limit in the long run, especially since the non-ranger wisdom classes tend to have low feat requirements.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 25, 2016, 04:19:48 PM
No right, there's been almost no chatter.
Some of those are re-named core things,
which blurs the distinctions that much more.

ENWorld ~didn't and then they got hacked so search gets zero.
Giantitp I've searched to naught, perhaps an insider knows.
reddit I don't search well.
rpgnet I haven't bothered in a long time.

All of the possible search terms, skew toward any
of the other possibilities, like M:tG or other D&D.
I mean "plane shift" is way too noisy and diverse.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: sambojin on October 25, 2016, 06:40:33 PM
Wis based characters also have a pretty low Wisdom requirement too (on top of low feat requirements). It gives you a bigger prepared spell variety more-so than outright attack power, due to many useful spells not being damaging.

You can get by with 13Wis quite handily on druids and clerics if you want to, making +1-2Wis either way better or way worse, depending on how you look at it. More is better, of course, but it can almost be considered a dump stat in some builds.


5% Kor rerolls aren't amazing, but it does save from whiffing in vital situations, especially with advantage creating or +d4 spells going for you. I'm probably more favourable to the free skills than the reroll-1's, although it's actually quite good as a built in, always-on ability. But athletics and acrobatics usually come into play regularly enough that having them allows for some weird skill builds with almost any class, regardless of training opportunities (or lack thereof).


For the monk question, sure, why not? Free Wis is free armour, which is always nice. AniMonk (monk or druid heavy) is always a good thing, especially with +2Wis and higher carrying capacity. Why be a bear, when you can be a big punchy bear?


Disguise Self "should" kind-of carry over if precast too. I'm wondering how far you could take the "same basic arrangement of limbs" factor in a WS form. Can you look like a human while in WS bear-form? Apes definitely have the same basic arrangement of limbs as a humanoid, but does a bear/dog/crocodile/horse? At least you can look like a nine foot tall monk when you want to, one that's only medium sized. But can you be an itty-bitty Shetland warhorse, or a cute little face savaging "teddy" bear? When or what from does the spell effect kick in? Can you say "Three foot shorter, that is all" to make smaller looking wildshapes, or would you look like a short Firbolg/humanoid that's actually a bear in disguise when you WS (which is probably far more useful)? I'm pretty sure you'd look like a Firbolg/whatever-humanoid-you-chose (illusion is set at time of casting), but would WS fizzle the spell if the "same basic arrangement of limbs" clause wasn't met any longer? Is four limbs and one head enough, or are hands and feet different, and do front hooves/claws/paws count as feet, or can they be hands? Bears *can* walk on two legs a bit naturally, but crocodiles, dogs and horses aren't renowned for it without extensive training, even if their front and back "legs" are quite different in form and use from each other, as different as our human "arms" and "legs" are.

Bipedal vs quadrupedal, or four limbs = ok? And are bears at least occasionally bipedal?



Another weird side effect from Firbolgs and moon druid WS: everything you carry can be merged into your form (but not necessarily used). You've got large and bigger forms, and a +1 size modifier. Guess who's carrying the Paladin's horse into the meeting, all secret like? Or you can do Ultima 6 Dupre duty, where you carry the boat/skiff for the party at all times, on the off-chance you want to go fishing at some point. I have no idea where "equipment" and "things carried" stop being one another from a player's perspective. There's plenty of stuff you carry in most games, that is equipment, that don't have anything to do with "magical item slots" or anything like that. It's just stuff you carry, in case you need it, thus equipment, thus merge-able into WS. Could you merge a familiar that normally sits in your top pocket? Because if the answer is yes, you can damn well merge in a pally's gee-gee too. And if it's a "living stuff=no, objects=yes" thing, it's still good. Probably not as exploitable, but still good. It might be druidic bears all the way down otherwise.....

There's little to no limit to the random and huge shit you can merge into a WS form either, so you may be carrying a small siege engine or supply cart for all they know, which are "equipment", as long as you could lift it in the first place. Which you often can with +1Str and a size modifier, after a few tries. At worst, WS into something big and strong, lift it, WS into the same form again and merge it. All your stowage problems are now sorted....

Item pinatas are funnier when they hit you for the last of your WS HP and an entire alchemist's lab pops out.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on October 25, 2016, 09:59:53 PM
Quote
5% Kor rerolls aren't amazing, but it does save from whiffing in vital situations, especially with advantage creating or +d4 spells going for you. I'm probably more favourable to the free skills than the reroll-1's, although it's actually quite good as a built in, always-on ability. But athletics and acrobatics usually come into play regularly enough that having them allows for some weird skill builds with almost any class, regardless of training opportunities (or lack thereof).

The old board had a detailed and long thread about how probability would catch up to you eventually as a PC and how higher tier options had ways to negate or avoid those situations.  If you play a year+ campaign, the Lucky racial is likely to turn a loss into a win at least a couple times.  You're turning the chance of a natural 1 from 1/20 to 1/400.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: sambojin on October 26, 2016, 12:25:58 AM
True. And, as said, you've got advantage providing spells available as a druid, turning rolling a 1 (or triple 1) into a truly negligible 1/8000'ish chance. Enhance Ability and Faerie Fire turn it into virtually zero whiffs for skills/saves or attacks respectively at that point. Well, even less than normal, over the course of a year long campaign (ie: it probably won't happen twice).

Halfling lucky with advantage, right when you need it most :)

Kors ain't bad. It doesn't help on all the twos and stuff that fail miserably, but you won't roll many ones, which helps a bit. Advantage is better (or double competency, or even +d4 on-call cantrips/spells for "average'ish" rolls required), but never rolling ones is good. And Kors almost never do, for FREE!

But the twos and threes will kill you just as dead as the ones do, with the exact same probability of rolling them initially.


Give me Bless or Guidance or Resistance or Faerie Fire or Enhance Ability any day of the week. Even as a Kor. I'm tempted to say that +2Wis, +1 strength, +1 size-carry, mini-invis, and Disguise Self/short rest is "more powerful" than re-rolling ones, even as a non-Wis class. You can do a lot in-game with pseudo-stealth and magic-vision. With any class (even non-druid "ask your DM dude, that's the answer" classes for Disguise Self).

Thus why I like the Kor's inherently useful skill-set too, on top of whiff removal.

I wouldn't really call either Kors or Firbolgs power-creep, because they gave us Aarakocra's straight off the bat, intended to be exactly as they are. Firbolgs and Kors are interesting and useful, but there's nothing inherently "bad" about either race for most campaigns, early or late. Good, but not busted or broken.



"Oh, look! Just kidding, you can't. I'm now an invisible bear that looks like a human that knows where all you expensive stuff is..... And now I'm riding a horse......"
Be the Firbolg your DM wants you to be.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on October 26, 2016, 04:31:28 PM
I'm picturing Wee Man bull+ball fighting "Oh it's just a baby bull".
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DmzTBvntJFE/maxresdefault.jpg

Reroll 1s is +9.5 / 20 = ~+0.5 , as a basic bonus, but
yeah the real power is in the get-out-of-jail-free part.

Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 02, 2016, 02:21:53 PM
The full PC race list is out:

Aasimar (3 subraces)
Bugbear
Firbolg
Goblin
Goliath (reprint)
Hobgoblin
Kenku
Kobold
Lizardfolk
Orc
Tabaxi
Triton
Yuan-Ti Pureblood

The leaker is unfortunately not willing to post full stat blocks but the pictures floating around look believable.
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 02, 2016, 05:06:52 PM
 :plot
1st impression is it'll be a lot of usable material.

edit --- This ENWorld poster says it was on 5e Facebook
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?488493-Player-Races-in-Upcoming-Volo-s-Guide-to-Monsters/page23&p=6933093&viewfull=1#post6933093


Aasimar ... DMG p. 286 has the basics, but the VGtM
details are ++ the srd's shortened racial summaries.
Seeing as how the base has already been hashed,
I presume these'll get lots of use.

Bugbear MM is in the SRD.  4e did a bit with these guys.

Firbolg ... previous topic in this thread.

Goliath ... TenJ noted

Goblin ... most of it is on DMG p. 282
Hobgoblin ... as are the rest of these
Kenku
Kobold
Lizarfolk
Orc

Triton might be a Merfolk variant, might not.

Yuan-ti ... is in the MM but not the SRD.  3e had some racial stats.

Tabaxi ... huh?  New and News to me.  Googles.
Well idk how many times I looked through my old 1e
Fiend Folio but these dudes didn't stick even once.
And lord knows, I'm attracted to Cat Girls.
 :???

**

Gnolls too, background for Lizardfolk
http://kotaku.com/an-early-look-at-d-d-s-newest-monster-bible-1788410991

more Monstery stuff
http://io9.gizmodo.com/an-inside-look-at-the-creepy-creatures-of-dungeons-dr-1788412425
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 02, 2016, 07:50:14 PM
Starting to see some stuff floating around for stats

Bugbear:
(click to show/hide)

Goblin:
(click to show/hide)

Hobgoblin:
(click to show/hide)

Kobold:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 03, 2016, 02:33:34 PM
Aasimar:
(click to show/hide)

Kenku:
(click to show/hide)

Lizardfolk:
(click to show/hide)

Tabaxi:
(click to show/hide)

Triton:
(click to show/hide)

Orc:
(click to show/hide)

Yuan-Ti Pureblood:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 03, 2016, 03:19:30 PM
So that's everything that wasn't a reprint or already revealed in an official preview.

Aasimar are mini-paladins much like half-orcs are mini-barbarians.  They all look like solid choices for anything Cha-based and paladins.  The extra damage working on attacks and spells is a nice touch so they don't too heavily favor any class moreso than their ability score bonuses dictate.

Kenku make me keep re-checking to be sure I didn't miss a racial.  The source is a picture of the page they are printed on and nothing is cut off however.

Lizardfolk have a lot of druid potential, and if you're rolling stats instead of using point buy or standard array, the natural armor is nice for a bunch of classes.

Tabaxi have some obvious absurdity with barbarian, rogue, and monk considering the interaction with multiple dashes per turn and Feline Agility.

Tritons have a nice list of stuff but nothing jumps out at me to say they would be ideal unless you're doing an aquatic campaign.

Orcs are worse than half-orcs unless you really need that limited bonus action dash.  Powerful Build is mostly a ribbon that says how much treasure you can carry around.

Yuan-ti are better tieflings than tieflings with a better saving throw racial than gnomes in place of an extra racial spell.

Bugbears have some potential for Assassin multiclass builds and barbarians.  Also a group of bugbears can line up in some interesting formations and still all hit the same target.  A 5 ft. choke point still allows 4 bugbears to stand in a straight line and hit the same target over each other's shoulders when polearms and the Battle Master reach maneuver are taken into account.  Pretty big formations of bugbears could all attack the same target without even flanking.

Goblins make pretty good monks and rangers, bringing 2/3 of Cunning Action without involving a rogue dip.  Really anything that wants Dex and Con, even as secondary stats, gets some decent survivability from picking goblin.

Hobgoblins seem like obvious wizards even though none of their lore I've ever read steers them that way.

Kobolds are amazing in dark places and have to rely on pack tactics in sunlight.  Dependent on the campaign, they could be ridiculous.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 03, 2016, 06:00:57 PM
Niiiiice pile.
+ 1


Hobgoblins are very tasty Gish Wizs.
Gets rid of spell taxes Shield and Mage Armor.
RogAT too, of course and Abjure.
Oh and hey, pick Greatsword.

Fallen Aasimar ... Mass Frightened for 1 whole minute?
Surely this has a Save Ends or time limit tag to it.

Triton ...
GM :  the Dragon jumps on top of you, crushing you.
PC :  Nope.
GM :  What?
PC :   "ignore effects of deep underwater environment"
GM :  Still not seeing it.
PC :  Dragons weigh less than the Pacific Ocean.
GM :  Oh ... (thinks for a moment)
GM :  You're pinned under the Dragon and can't move, but you're otherwise quite smug about your situation.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 03, 2016, 07:51:17 PM
The Fallen Aasimar frighten is until the end of the Aasimar's next turn.  The Protector has the best transformation imo but the Scourge and Fallen have a better ability score combo to compensate.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: Wilb on November 04, 2016, 07:42:38 AM
Wow there are some nice gems among these races...

Excelent work TenaciousJ!!!
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 04, 2016, 03:51:52 PM
Tabaxi
+2 Dex +1 Cha
60 ft. darkvision
Perception and Stealth proficiency

These strike me as the "Old School Survival Guide" to 5e , now with Cat Fluff.

**

TenJ ... have some obvious absurdity with barbarian, rogue, and monk considering the interaction with multiple dashes per turn and Feline Agility.

Feline Agility: Double your movement speed on your turn.  You can't use this again until you spend a turn moving 0 ft.
Claws: 20 ft. climb speed and you can use them to make 1d4 unarmed strikes that deal slashing instead of bludgeoning

Both of these, are simpler mechanics than the standard PHB stuff that does the same thing.
(I suppose a passive or proper Knowledge check to determine whether Bludge should switch to Slash, or vice versa)

So this part is basically "Noob's Old School Survival guide".


Perfect for new players.  :clap
And still quite use/abuse-able.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: sambojin on November 04, 2016, 04:13:01 PM
Yuan Ti looks very nice. Suggestion is fairly DM dependent, but is also one of those really wide open spells that you can do nearly anything with. Having an insta-talky-fixer spell a day opens up new dimensions to almost any character, and is one of the few very useful 2nd level racial spells I've seen with no downsides (darkness is pretty situational after all). You can now take care of one encounter a day, completely by yourself, and turn it into almost any outcome. Sort of. Now you just have to deal with being a scary looking snake/human hybrid monster thing and you'll be fine. Probably.


I'll have to look into protector aasimirs and exactly what this transformation means, because flying angel-bear WS sounds great, and racials carry over if possible, and it might be worded in a way that keeps you in WS when used but with a flying speed. Saves a WS use when flying is needed too, so giant eagle isn't necessarily your fall-back plan every time. More resources = good. Jumbo the flying elephant is high on the list of must-dos.  Also opens up a few 1d3 attack forms into potentially damaging forms as well (or a little bit better anyway). Flying attack squirrels ahoy!

Scourge aasamir sounds quite nice for druids too. You're a HP damage sponge anyway, so the AoE radiant damage is mostly irrelevant to you, and you've got resistance against it as well. Quite a nice anti-horde "spell" to use in WS really, where you'll be tanking mobs up nice and close anyway. The healing hands racial is like an extra 1-2 low level slots worth of WS health too. Doesn't say you can't use it on yourself, so that's free WS HP for you, leaving you with more utility casting later on. Assamir might be my "go-to" race for moon druids now, because you don't need much Wis, but +Cha is always nice to have.

The goblin flat damage bonus is nice for the same reason. It's not great, but +damage is always good. Everything is bigger than tiny animals for the most part.

I wonder if it's intended for Tabaxi's speed boost to apply to all kinds of movement? Mega-turbo-digger Giant Badgers perhaps? Nearly supersonic Giant Eagles? It should work for Longstrider'd Giant Octopi at least, giving you some pretty reasonable bursts of speed on land when you want them. And potentially dumber things too (Killer Whales flopping about in dungeons again.....).


If it wasn't for the light sensitivity, Kobolds seem awesome as bards. Attack advantage + bonus action inspiration dice would make heavily armoured enemies a little more scared of your party, even as you cower in fear near them. Fair enough, it's essentially only the hitty part of Faerie Fire for one round, but there's no rolls needed and it seems unresistable. Everyone likes advantage.


While it's not really that useful, Hobgoblins could try to beat some seriously stupid DCs as a skill monkey. Auto10+double proficiency+guidance+5 makes auto20's just a "thing you do" occasionally as a hobgoblin rogue, as long as people are watching. Go ahead, try and forge the One Ring the next time you get a minute to spare :)
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 05, 2016, 09:49:27 AM
I got my physical book last night.  The store owner saved one of the special covers for me and each of the in-store DMs.  The black and silver illithid looks really cool.

Some of the Conjure lines get more options from the book:

Conjure Animals:
Cows are CR 1/4.  If they move 20 ft. or more before attacking, their damage increases to 3d6+4.  A stampede of cows can do a lot of damage and their attack roll bonus is a whopping +6, quite high for CR 1/4.  Watch out for the druid on an open field.  Watch out for the monk that stuns and then runs away before the druid has his cows stampede too.

Velociraptors are CR 1/4 (and tiny, more accurate to their size as archaeologists know today).  They have similar stats to wolves, they have pack tactics, and multiattack.  If you don't need the trip from the wolves, these are a bit more damage, though the cows will trump both if they can charge.

The Deinonychus is CR 1 and has a 3 hit multiattack WITH a pounce trait that can allow another bite as a bonus action after the trip.  These are good as a conjured beast or as a wildshape at low levels.

Conjure Fey gets:
Annis Hag: decent bruiser, gets 3 attacks that have 3d6+5 damage or a single grapple that deals 9d6+5 recurring, has lowish HP but resistance to non-magical weapons, 3/day disguise self and fog cloud

Cast at level 7, Bheur Hag: not the greatest survivability but it has 1/day control weather, 3/day Cone of Cold, Ice Storm, and Wall of Ice, and At-will Hold Person and Ray of Frost.  The 3 Cones of Cold would make it worth the slot IMO.  Also has Maddening Feast which allows it to eat a corpse that died in the last minute and force an aoe incapacitating frighten effect

Cast at level 7, the Korred has a bonus action grapple/restrain.  It can command a rope (and it always has a 50 ft. rope of its own hair) within 30 ft. to move up to 20 ft. to perform the grapple.  It has a burrow speed, decent HP, resistance to non-magical weapons, at-will commune with nature, meld into stone, and stone shape, and 1/day each Conjure Elemental (6th level, galeb duhr, earth elemental, or xorn only), and Otto's Irresistible Dance.  I cannot recall any rulings that a conjured being cannot itself conjure more creatures in 5e.  A galeb duhr is basically worth 3 creatures, and Otto's Irresistible Dance is a killer spell too.  If that wasn't enough, it attacks twice with a greatclub or by throwing rocks and does 2d8 extra damage per attack when touching the ground with a decent attack roll bonus.

Conjure Woodland Beings:
The Boggle is a CR 1/8 and has an amusing pseudo-grease ability or a sticky version that restrains.  The DC is low but it's 8 of them, and you can choose to either go for Dex saves or Str saves depending on whether you're going for slippery or sticky.  It also has bonus action 30 ft. teleports at-will essentially between doorways, arches, etc. from its ability to open dimensional rifts only it can use.  Interestingly, just opening one of these rifts allows it to "flank" from 30 ft. for the purposes of stuff like sneak attack because it's considered to base things on either side of the rift when it's within 5 ft.  It's worth looking into the intricacies of the ability to see what shenanigans it allows.  The ability says the Boggle is the only thing that can use the rift, but it can push "anything" through the rift.  You might be able to set up a short-range teleportation network for yourself with 8 of these.

CR 1/2 Darklings and CR 2 Darkling Elders have poor HP but they let out a 10 ft. radius blinding flash when they die.  The Elder has decent damage that relies on it gaining advantage to get the full effect, and can innately cast Darkness once per rest.

The Meenlock is CR 2, has a fear aura, a recharge 5-6 30 ft. shadow teleport similar to the monk ability, and its claw attack has a low DC paralyze as a rider.  Downside is it has light sensitivity and fairly low HP and attack roll modifier for something you'd get out of a level 4 spell.

Quicklings may or may not be worth mentioning, but they're CR 1 and have some interesting quirks.  They have 120 ft. land speed, they're tiny, attack rolls have disadvantage on them unless they're incapacitated or restrained, and they have evasion.  They have a high attack bonus and AC for a CR 1 but only 10 hit points.  If someone in your party is denying reactions via something like Shocking Grasp or Open Palm Technique and you're not dealing with Con save aoes, these things could be really good as they go in and out of melee range.

Conjure Elemental:
The Flail Snail is a CR 3 elemental for people who want cool points with their elemental summons.  Despite only being available to Conjure Elemental, which will only give you 1 creature regardless of CR, the Scintillating Shell ability might be worth it for the DC 15 Wisdom 30 ft. radius stun attached and it has some strong anti-caster traits.

There's nothing to report for Conjure Celestials or Conjure Minor Elementals.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 05, 2016, 02:59:14 PM
"Zend Goblin" are quite different from "Volo Goblin".
Maintaining the two is quite convenient.


sambojin --- yeah I'm pretty sure a normal racial movement or senses ability, is overwritten by WS, but a separate trigger ability will still be use-able.  Good Stuff.

Kobolds --- light sensitivity were (are) an easy + cheap fix in 3e, so I don't quite understand (not you of course) the various not comings arounds, to Riddick Goggles.
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?385572-Drow-quot-Sunlight-Sensitivity-quot-workarounds


TenJ niiice list.
So what is this, a total Druid power-up book ?!
 :D

edit --- TenJ the Illithid told you to say :  The black and silver illithid looks really cool.
You now have advantage on your Cha save.
 :whistle
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 05, 2016, 03:17:07 PM
All the summons are available to bards too.  If only warlocks could up-cast mystic arcanum...

Aasimar might edge out or at least match half-elf for the ideal paladin race, and they offer a ton to every Cha-based class.

Yuan-Ti will get a lot of talk while people don't read actual rulings about what Magic Resistance actually works on.  It's not even close to blanket advantage on saving throws.  Stuff that's not explicitly spellcasting gets through it based on the rulings on dragon breath circumventing Magic Resistance and other such anti-magic features.

I haven't delved into the high CR stuff yet to see if any class with True Polymorph gets a great new option.  The winners so far are druids and the charisma classes.  The benchmark on races is variant human, except for the Cha classes because half-elf actually gains so much versatility if not as much raw early power.  It's easier to contend with half-elf than human because half-elf racials aren't as variable as feats are.

e: The Storm Giant Quintessent stands out as a good True Polymorph target.  It's not too much of a stretch to suggest you could maintain your spellcasting ability in that form.  I need to dig for some rulings about how leveling up works if you True Polymorph.  I have a feeling you would maintain a sheet for your underlying original form to level up since the permanency of the spell doesn't seem to remove the clause where you go back to your original form if you drop to 0 hit points.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: sambojin on November 05, 2016, 10:31:27 PM
Yuan-Ti spell resistance isn't exactly bad though. Probably nowhere near as good as people think it might be, certainly not compared to Rage resistances, but still nice. Of course, the two together could get silly depending on wording, but open up more barb builds aside from bear at the same time. +2 Cha, 1/day Suggestion is probably the power of the race though. Even with plenty of non-charmable enemies and a Wis save negation, Suggestion is such an amazing spell that if you can get it, you try and use it when you can, mostly in horribly creative ways. It's 5e's Charm Person equivalent, but potentially more open to abuse.


I'll have to buy the book at some point. Because it obviously gives Druids just the bump they needed to be a competitive class in 5e (/sarcasm).

I've been waiting for some more silly stuff to think up, and between Conjure shenanigans and WS interactions, this book seems to have it all :D
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 06, 2016, 11:56:53 AM
I'm waiting on a druid player who will actually show me the class is in the same league as wizard or bard, or even paladin or fighter.  It seems the druid's relative power comes from games played with the default array or point buy where most encounters are on the medium difficulty curve below level 8.

Obviously that's the point the game was balanced around, but if you start pushing any of those, the druid seems to lose out since summons and wildshape fall behind the curve a bit.  Higher starting ability scores don't really give any benefit to the bread and butter of druids, wildshape and conjured creatures, but other classes do a good job of converting those into better performance for their level.

I'm definitely in a minority though just by running games all the way to 20.  Most people's assumptions of class power based on sub-10th level play really fall apart in the levels I've actually run, but the usual argument is "no one plays those levels, they don't matter."

To bring it back around to the topic at hand, a lot of the Volo's monsters are really nicely made.  Creatures as low as CR 6 can still be a decent threat in the right numbers to level 11-16 party in the right numbers and won't just die to a single aoe spell, and the book provided plenty more from that CR and up.  The NPC spellcasters are a nice addition and a perfect example of stat blocks that will always be relevant regardless of party level.  The Flind is right around the sweet spot too where it's scary even to a 20th level PC unless the DM has been handing out +AC items like candy.  It's only CR 9 but it can hit plate+shield on a roll of 11, and the flail of paralysis is just nasty since the paralyzed condition turns all successful hits from 5 ft. away into critical hits.  In a high level encounter it's just right to get really scary if it can get advantage from some weaker minion using Help or any of the various control effects in the game, and at 127 HP it will take some focused damage to kill it, barring Meteor Swarm.  All the mindflayers fit in this category too just because intelligence is rarely a high saving throw for a PC.

The Orc Nurtured One of Yurtrus is a neat DM tool too.  It's only 1/2 CR but it releases a cloud of poison that deals 4d6 poison damage to anything within 10 ft. of it when it dies with a Con save for half.  Even if the damage is a bit negligible, it will add up when they're used in sufficient numbers.  The threat isn't really from fighting them after a point, the challenge is to kill them before they get close while engaged in fights with tougher creatures.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: Nunkuruji on November 07, 2016, 11:12:58 AM
Thank god, in dire need of more monsters. Lacking time to do conversions lately.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 07, 2016, 11:56:26 AM
Quote from: Nunkuruji on November 07, 2016, 11:12:58 AM
Thank god, in dire need of more monsters. Lacking time to do conversions lately.

The 3rd party Tome of Beasts is really good, though it brings back a couple things like variable durations on debuffs and ability score damage that are of questionable value to 5e.  Still, it's a lot less work than doing conversions to tweak those things.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: caelic on November 07, 2016, 09:47:59 PM
Druid's power also depends on how willing the DM is to allow latitude with summons.  If you have a DM who claims the right to select exactly what shows up, the Druid's power drops fairly significantly.  Otherwise, those summons are substantially powerful in a bounded accuracy system.  Swarms of wasps can do a remarkable amount of damage for a third level spell, and of course pixies break the spell slot economy to a remarkable degree.

An overlooked summon option in Volo's is the swarm of rot grubs.   While there's some argument at certain tables over whether a swarm is a valid target for summons, if it IS permitted, this is a devastating tactic for big, stupid monsters.  Dump rot grubs on them, make sure the grubs burrow in, then retreat.  Eventually, the monster WILL die, if it's too stupid to use fire and unable to cure disease.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 07, 2016, 11:08:18 PM
Generally a swarm is not summonable because its type is swarm, not the type following the swarm label, and no existing spell summons the swarm type.  The alternative explanation is that if it counts as the type of creature that composes the swarm instead of the swarm type, then a swarm exceeds the limitation on the number of creatures the spell summons. 

Both arguments are used to explain why a druid cannot wildshape into a swarm of beasts in 5e.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: sambojin on November 08, 2016, 12:16:11 PM
Yet references to any 1/4CR animal dictate otherwise for that spell.

WS does tend to state creature, singular. Conjure Animals does not, and almost implies the reverse.

"Swarm of" *Foo* is still just a 1/4'ish CR creature of the Animal type, if you want to look at it that way. In the MM "Animal" block near the end, alphabetically ordered. Kind of like Demons, Devils, Dragons and Undead all have their own block of creatures. There's a Swarm type kind of implied for them, but fortunately they are all still in the group of creatures of the Animal type, in the Animal block in the MM (not even being mini-dino swarms or anything), sitting there looking all 1/4CR'ish. Which is exactly what that spell does. Summons heaps of them. Low CR Animals.

Are Ancient Dragons of the "Ancient" type, totally unrelated to everything else effecting dragons otherwise? There's heaps of different "Ancient" stuff around in the "Dragon" block of creatures there. They've probably even got a blurb in the MM.......

And so are "Ancient" Liches related for spell purposes?


Remember, we've played different versions of D&D. But in theory, other people haven't. RAW, the main volume that new DMs get to reference on how the hell Conjure Animals works, implies that you can summon swarms. Entirely intentionally. Or they'd be in a different block of creatures with a simple edit. Easily.

(not trying to Rules Lawyer this one, I tend to stick on the "no swarms" side too. But tagging a specific and fairly "outside the norm" class ability having implied proof inherent in it of how a particular spell works is bogus proof of RAW or RAI, no matter how silly it is. And against some very vague proof that it actually does work like this doesn't help any, especially considering where they put Swarms in the MM, without a "Swarms are totally different" caveat for new people to the game).
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: sambojin on November 08, 2016, 01:59:12 PM
As an adjoiner to this, it's fortunate that swarms aren't half as good as they look on paper compared to a good many things that you can summon without dispute.

They're not bad, but expect some stuff to "happen" if they end up being too good. There's only so much stuff a Druid can do at once, a Moon Druid especially, and one of the foremost things they do is get hit a lot. So yeah, concentrate a lot, really hard.

By the time you don't care about wasted lvl3-5 spell slots is exactly about the time that you start sucking arse in combat. Which means every slot is vital to you. Because that's your new job.

Swarms don't really pull their weight after level 7-11, maybe not even then, so you should have. already thought of your "better" potential 1hour summon uses by then for those spell slots. Big numbers of dice average out, yes, but they start diminishing rapidly if they're not good combat or strong utility dice that you're rolling.

You do combat better than almost any primary caster as a druid, and toolkit, but you've got some one of the strangest "power-curves" of any class to deal with. Toolkit primary the whole way through with barely a skill to your name, with front-loaded fading mêlée (that you can't cast or concentrate properly in) and average+ casting/support after.

I get where tenaciousJ views the class from. They can't compete in any way (other than early on, where they blast it), but not all raw power gets lost if you know what it is. A bear ain't half of it.

It's more like the thinking-man's skill-monkey, with a side serve of face-tank and a cup of caster on the side. Still not sure why there's still "bigger" bear convos about them half the time. It's fun, but so's a true hybrid caster after 10th, which you'd better be by then. WS=toolkit and the thing that got you there.
 
/drunk 5am Wednesday morning posting
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on November 08, 2016, 02:11:11 PM
The animal block of the monster manual has non-beasts in it, so that placement is not really proof that swarms count for Conjure Animals either.  The Winter Wolf (a monstrosity) is not a legal wildshape or Conjure Animals summon just because it's in that animal block.

There's an actual type line on monster manual entries under their names which matters for considering rules effects.  Swarms list swarm in the spot where every other type of creature has something like fiend, dragon, monstrosity, etc.  Dragons don't list their age category in their type line, so that tangent about ancient dragons or ancient liches is irrelevant.  A swarm of ravens lists "Medium swarm of Tiny beasts" in its type line.  The RAW argument just does not hold up for swarms functioning as something a player can summon or transform into with the current options.  Either it's a swarm, not a beast, or if it emphasizes "beasts" over "swarm", its type line indicates it's more than one beast, so it ambiguously exceeds the number of creatures summoned by the spell.  The number argument is supported by the developer tweets that repeatedly state a swarm isn't a single beast.  Remember, Conjure Animals does not say "X creature(s) of CR Y," it specifially calls out "X beast(s) of CR Y."
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 08, 2016, 04:50:20 PM
I miss rules lawyering ...  :love  :fu


Caelic - rot grubs
Reminds me of the 4e Mummy, run in hit once retreat wait for dude to die.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on December 04, 2016, 01:40:51 PM
Beholder Gazer is pretty awesome for a Find Familiar.
I'd expect a DM to actually target this familiar in combat.
And they'd have to.


Nilbog (while almost entirely dm fiat) would be
a welcome addition to ANY goblin build.
Screws up healing and tactics, but being able
to spam Tasha's is like Plan 1b for every attack.


EDIT --- near the back in the NPC section,
there's a box about alternative Familiars. 
It includes the BeGazer (above) and a couple
of the Chain'Lock familiar+'s.  They're available
as regular familiars (with the minor level limit).
This is a flat out replacement of Chain, just like
Green Flame Blade cantrip is >>> basic Blade.
'Nother stealth boost to the Warlock.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: TenaciousJ on January 07, 2017, 02:36:32 PM
Quote from: awaken_D_M_golem on December 04, 2016, 01:40:51 PM
Beholder Gazer is pretty awesome for a Find Familiar.
I'd expect a DM to actually target this familiar in combat.
And they'd have to.


Nilbog (while almost entirely dm fiat) would be
a welcome addition to ANY goblin build.
Screws up healing and tactics, but being able
to spam Tasha's is like Plan 1b for every attack.


EDIT --- near the back in the NPC section,
there's a box about alternative Familiars. 
It includes the BeGazer (above) and a couple
of the Chain'Lock familiar+'s.  They're available
as regular familiars (with the minor level limit).
This is a flat out replacement of Chain, just like
Green Flame Blade cantrip is >>> basic Blade.
'Nother stealth boost to the Warlock.

https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/725190105451888640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Quote
The familiar variants in the Monster Manual are for monster and NPC spellcasters. PC spellcasters use the PH. #DnD

I think it's reasonable to assume the Volo's rule box is also for NPCs.
Title: Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on January 07, 2017, 03:18:15 PM
waahhh wambulance time  :(  :tongue  ;)

Holds for npc Tome'Locks now being able to bypass chain and blade.
If that oddball UA npc stat generator is being used, these guys can be quite dangerous.


What about the Yuan-ti variants in the racial section earlier in the book?

Goblins in the goblin section, are also very interesting.
Wild triggering all the time is cray-cray.  Suicide early, too distracting later, maybe a sweet-spot somewhen idk.
'Locks having a mid/high level monster in charge (with a touch of big bad evil master).
1 random 1st level Wiz spell and Whip prof, is rather tasty early ... presumably wizards only.
Dominating dude, is mostly a refluff on the Noble background, but actually useful.

{ insert a slightly undersized evil grin smiley face , stabbing a commoner smiley face in the back }