Author Topic: Berserker (3.5)  (Read 8021 times)

Offline RobbyPants

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Berserker (3.5)
« on: August 24, 2017, 11:27:17 PM »
Berserker

"Honestly, I don't know how much of the blood is mine and how much is his."

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Berserkers are exceptionally tough combatants. They have mastered a fighting style that channels their fury and rage into well-directed attacks. Their inner strength allows them to stay standing while injured in ways that defy logic, and makes them capable of inhuman feats of strength. While many associated this style of fighting with primitive races and cultures, a good number of berserkers are trained in more advanced societies. Several armies are known for training berserkers specifically to be used as shock troopers.

The Berserker  Hit Die: d12
Level BAB             Fort Ref  Will  Special
                      Save Save Save

______________________________________________________________________
1     +1              +2   +0   +0    Fury, adrenaline surge, iron skin
2     +2              +3   +0   +0    Uncanny dodge, sprint, bombard
3     +3              +3   +1   +1    Demolish, vigor
4     +4              +4   +1   +1    Resilience, leap
5     +5              +4   +1   +1    Clout (15')
6     +6/+1           +5   +2   +2    Improved uncanny dodge, haste
7     +7/+2           +5   +2   +2    Break magic, burst
8     +8/+3           +6   +2   +2    Shout, my love for you is like a truck berserker!
9     +9/+4           +6   +3   +3    Never stop, second chance
10    +10/+5          +7   +3   +3    Clout (30'), haste (continued)
11    +11/+6/+1       +7   +3   +3    Bone breaker
12    +12/+7/+2       +8   +4   +4    Shake it off
13    +13/+8/+3       +8   +4   +4    Just a flesh wound
14    +14/+9/+4       +9   +4   +4    Foresight
15    +15/+10/+5      +9   +5   +5    Clout (45')
16    +16/+11/+6/+1   +10  +5   +5    Focused rage
17    +17/+12/+7/+2   +10  +5   +5    Back on your feet
18    +18/+13/+8/+3   +11  +6   +6    Tireless rage
19    +19/+14/+9/+4   +11  +6   +6    Vorpal strike
20    +20/+15/+10/+5  +12  +6   +6    Tenacity, clout (60')
______________________________________________________________________


Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level.
Class Skills: As Barbarian.

Class Features
Your class features focus on combat and channeling your fury.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Berserkers are proficient with simple and martial weapons, as well as light armor, medium armor, and shields (but not tower shields).

Fury (Ex): A berserker is able to fly into a rage, channeling his fury into raw power. Any time the berserker deals damage (to a creature or an object), he may gain a point of fury. He may only gain one point per attack. If he takes damage (lethal or nonlethal, but excluding damage from thirst, starvation, suffocation, or similar threats), he must succeed at a Will save (DC 15) or gain a point of fury. He may voluntarily fail this saving throw if he wants to gain fury. The first time the berserker gains fury (starting from zero points), he gains three points. Each gain thereafter is only one point.
   Once the berserker has at least one point of fury, he enters a state of rage. Upon entering the rage, he gains a number of temporary Hit Points equal to double his level. These temporary Hit Points are lost when his rage ends. During this time, he gains a +4 rage bonus to Strength, a +2 rage bonus to Fortitude and Will saves, but suffers a -2 penalty to Armor Class. Each round, at the beginning of his turn, he loses one point of fury. If he is fatigued, he loses two points at the beginning of his turn, and three points if he is exhausted. If at any point he has zero points of fury, his rage ends, and he becomes fatigued for five minutes. He may not gain fury during this time. Even if he keeps his fury total above zero, his rage cannot last longer than one minute per point of his Constitution bonus (minimum one). At this time, he loses all fury and becomes fatigued as normal.
   A berserker may have a maximum number of fury points at any time equal to his Constitution bonus (minimum one) plus one quarter his level (round down), to a total minimum of three points. In addition, when the berserker gains levels, he gains new abilities to use during his rage. Some of these are passive, working so long as he has fury. Some are activated by spending points of fury.
   Note that a berserker does not gain fury by making an attack that uses fury, such as Demolish. He may gain fury from attacks made while under the effects of abilities powered by fury, such as Haste.

Adrenaline surge (Ex): At 1st level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a swift action to heal an amount of damage equal to double his level. In addition, he gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases to +6 at 6th level, +8 at 12th, and +10 at 18th.
   For two points of fury, the berserker may use this ability as an immediate action.

Iron Skin (Ex):  At 1st level, if the berserker has at least one point of fury, he gains a +4 Armor bonus to his Armor Class. This bonus increases by 1 point every even level.
   Regardless of if he has any fury, he may get tattoos of magical ink to enchant his skin as though he were enchanting magic armor. The costs and abilities are identical to the costs of enchanting armor normally. The bonuses function with or without fury, but do not function if he is wearing any armor.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex):  At 2nd level, the berserker gains Uncanny Dodge as a Barbarian (PHB 26).

Sprint (Ex):  At 2nd level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a full-round action to run at incredible speeds. He may move up to five times his base land speed, but he is not limited to running only in a straight line. He may change direction by up to 90 degrees every 20 feet. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity nor cause him to lose his Dexterity bonus to Armor Class. He also gains a +4 bonus to Reflex saves and a +10 bonus to Jump checks until the beginning of his next turn.

Bombard(Ex):  At 2nd level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a standard action to throw a creature or object that weighs less than or equal to his light load. The thrown object or creature is treated as a thrown ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet, and deals 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (maximum 1d6 per level), plus his Strength modifier. Both the target and the creature or object thrown take this damage. Soft objects (such as a bag of flour) deal nonlethal damage.
   To throw a creature, the berserker must already be successfully grappling it.

Demolish (Ex):  At 3rd level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a standard action to make a single powerful melee attack. The attack deals an extra 1d6 points of damage per level and ignores damage reduction and hardness.

Vigor (Ex):  At 3rd level, the so long as the berserker has at least one point of fury, he heals one Hit Point per two levels per round. He also heals one point of ability damage to each ability score per round.

Resilience (Ex):  At 4th level, if the berserker has at least one point of fury, he gains damage reduction X/-, where X is 1/3 his level.

Leap (Ex):  At 4th level, the berserker lessens any falling damage he takes by an amount equal to his damage reduction per damage die. He may also spend a point of fury as a move-action to jump a distance of up to his base land speed. He may instead use a full-round action to jump up to double his land speed. If he does, he may make a charge attack at the end of his movement. 
   At 6th level, this ability no longer costs fury, but he must have at least one point to use it. The berserker may also use this ability to jump off of walls or other surfaces that could support his weight. He may end his turn on such a surface. On his next turn, he must jump again to continue his movement, or he falls.
   At 9th level, the berserker may make leaps that last longer than one round. Each round, he travels at four times his base land speed in a straight line or downward arc. He may jump for a number of consecutive rounds equal to one third his level. He may make a single charge attack each round at any point along the movement.

Clout (Ex): At 5th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a standard action to make a single, powerful melee attack. If the attack hits the target, all creatures in a 15-foot cone directly behind the target take damage equal to half the amount the primary target took.
   All affected creatures must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + ½ the berserker's level + his Strength modifier) or fall prone. Any of the secondary creatures affected in the cone take half damage if their save is successful. Creatures with the stability trait may apply its bonus to this save.
   The cone extends to 30 feet at 10th level, 45 feet at 15th level, and 60 feet at 20th.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 6th level, the berserker gains Improved Uncanny Dodge as a Barbarian (PHB 26).

Haste (Ex):  At 6th level, as a swift action, the berserker may spend a point of fury to gain the effects of Haste (PHB 239) for one round.
   At 10th level, the berserker may choose to extend the duration to one round per level, or until his rage end, whichever comes first.

Break Magic (Su): At 7th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a standard action to make a single attack. If the attack strikes the target, it is affected by a targeted version of Greater Dispel Magic (PHB 223). The attack does not need to deal damage for this ability to work. The berserker uses his class level for the caster level check.

Burst (Ex):  At 7th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a swift action to gain a +10 rage bonus on checks and saving throws to escape a grapple, being entangled, or similar effects. This ability lasts until the start of his next turn.

Shout (Ex): At 8th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a standard action to let out a terrifying shout. All opponents within 30 feet must make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ the berserker's level + his Charisma modifier) or be shaken for one round per level. All opponents with 4 or fewer Hit Dice than the berserker are frightened for the first round. This is a [fear] effect.

My Love for You is Like a Truck, Berserker! (Ex): At 8th level, if an ally is the target of an attack, spell, or ability, the berserker may place himself in harm's way, making himself the target. As an immediate action, he may move up to his base land speed, so long as he would end adjacent to the ally, in a square that is a valid target for the effect he is intercepting. For example: if he is attempting to take a melee attack for his ally, he must end within one of the attacking creature's threatening squares. If he is already in a valid square when he uses this ability, he does not need to move for it to work.
   Using this ability uses the berserker's move-action for the next round, instead of his swift action. This ability may only be used once per round, even if the berserker has an extra immediate action.
   If the ability affects an area rather than individual targets, the original target gains a +4 cover bonus to its Armor Class, saving throws, and other d20 rolls against the effect.
   Note that the berserker may choose whom he considers an ally when using this effect, such as innocent bystanders, or even an object he is guarding.

Never Stop (Ex):  At 9th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a free action to gain another swift or immediate action for their turn. This new action must be spent on an ability that costs rage to use.
   The berserker may use this ability when it is not his turn when gaining an immediate action.

Second Chance (Ex):  At 9th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury to reroll a save as an immediate action. He may decide to use this ability after he finds out if his initial save succeed or not, but if used, he must accept the result of the second roll. This ability can only be used once per saving throw made, although it can be used more than once per round on different saves if the berserker has sufficient immediate actions to spend.

Bone Breaker (Ex):  At 11th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury to make a bone-breaking attack as a standard action. The target must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the berserker's level + his Strength modifier) or take 2d6 points of Constitution damage in addition to the normal damage. If the target takes Constitution damage, a bone is broken. The effects last until the Constitution damage is fully healed. Pick the type of injury at the time of making the attack:
  • Head – Target has a -4 penalty to Will saves and Perception checks.
  • Ribs  – Target has a -4 penalty to Fortitude saves and any skill check that is affected by Armor Check Penalty.
  • Arm  – Target cannot use the arm to attack, perform skills, or other actions. If all arms are broken, it cannot perform somatic gestures.
  • Leg  – Reduce target's land speed:
    • to ½ speed if fewer than half its legs are broken.
    • to 5' if at least half its legs (but not all legs) are broken.
    • to crawling only, if all of its legs are broken.
  • Wing  – Target cannot use its wings to fly.
If the target succeeds at their Fortitude save, the Constitution damage is halved, and they do not suffer any of the above-listed effects.
   Note that a creature must have bones for this ability to work on them. At the DM's discretion, creatures with bones that would normally be immune to ability damage may be affected by this ability.

Shake it Off (Ex): At 12th level, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a swift action to remove any one status condition from himself, so long as he is capable of acting. If he is nauseated, he may use this ability as a move-action.
   Conditions such as ability damaged, ability drained, and energy drained cannot be removed directly, but one individual negative level, or an amount of ability damage or drain to one ability equal to his class level can be removed. He may not use this ability to remove fatigue or exhaustion.
 
Just a Flesh Wound (Ex):  At 13th level, if the berserker has at least one point of fury, he converts one half  of the damage he takes (round down) to nonlethal damage. This ability does not work if he is immune to nonlethal damage.

Foresight (Ex):  At 14th level, the berserker adds his Wisdom bonus (minimum of 1) to Initiative rolls and Reflex saves.

Focused Rage (Ex):  At 16th level, if the berserker has at least one point of fury, he is immune to charms, compulsions, and fear.

Back on Your Feet (Ex):  At 17th level, if the berserker has at least one point of fury, if he becomes dead, unconscious, paralyzed, or petrified, he automatically recovers at the beginning of his next turn. He loses any and all of the above-listed conditions, and if he is below half his maximum Hit Points, he is healed to that amount.   He then immediately loses all of his fury and cannot regain fury this round. At the end of that turn, he is exhausted.
   This ability does not work if his body is wholly destroyed.

Tireless Rage (Ex):  At 18th level, the berserker may spend two points of fury a as a swift action to remove the fatigued condition from himself, or to lessen exhaustion to fatigue.

Vorpal Strike (Ex):  At 19th level, the berserker may spend three points of fury as a standard action to cut off his opponent's head. If the target fails a Fortitude save (DC 10 + ½ the berserker's level + his Strength modifier), it dies. Targets without heads cannot be targeted by this ability, and targets that do not need their head to survive (such as trolls) are decapitated, but not killed.

Tenacity (Ex): This ability functions as Back on Your Feet, except instead of losing all fury, the berserker instead loses three points of fury. Tenacity may only be used once per round, even if the berserker has extra immediate actions.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2021, 07:48:52 PM by RobbyPants »
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Offline bhu

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 11:45:46 PM »
that is one intimidating guy...

Offline Stratovarius

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2017, 06:43:05 AM »
Is he supposed to get several hundred bonus hit points by later levels?

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2017, 08:39:20 AM »
Is he supposed to get several hundred bonus hit points by later levels?
That might be a bit excessive. Adrenaline Surge will likely need to be toned down, because it heals the same amount. With the rate of fast healing he'll have by then, I could probably tone it down. I like that amount at low levels, but I could make it based on a fraction of his level. Perhaps something more like: "1/3 level (round up) times Con bonus (minimum 1)".

Or hell, maybe I go more simple and just make it something like "double his level" and forget the Con part. That caps it at 40, and he relies on DR and fast healing after that to stay alive.

Other than that, what do you think about the abilities and overall mechanic? I didn't want Fury to be too convoluted or hard to track, but I also didn't want it to be too abusable. I wanted to remove the incentive to have an ally butt-stab the berserker to trigger his powers, and I wanted to have a mechanical way to keep him from staying in fury indefinitely. I should probably test this out at various levels and types of fights to see how the rate of accrual and burn on fury really work out. I have a feeling he'll quickly get to max and just stay there. I'm thinking I should put a note in there saying you don't gain fury from an attack that you spent fury on, otherwise, it's effectively free.

Also, I'm thinking of adding an extra swift/immediate action in around level 10 or so. I'm not sure if it's needed, but the class does have some good use of swift/immediate actions (six abilities in total, I think). Perhaps using the extra action (1/round, max) costs a point of fury, in addition to whatever the class ability costs.


Edit: Should Bone Breaker get a save? I'm thinking make a Fort save (DC Str-based). If it fails, the ability works as described. If it succeeds, only half the Con damage is taken and none of the effects are used.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 09:12:45 AM by RobbyPants »
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 08:21:30 AM »
I dropped the temp HP and the HP gain from Adrenaline Surge to 2x level, and made a note about not gaining fury from attacks that cost fury.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2017, 10:32:10 PM »
As the unofficial homebrew reviewer I feel obligated to finally take a close look at this class.

Why don't you just put "Class skills as PHB Barbarian" up at the top in the skills section instead of down at the bottom?

The reduced temp hp look much better.

I'm not seeing the note that stops gaining fury from attacks that cost fury.  Wait, nevermind, found it.  I was expecting it in the line about attacks granting fury so I missed it.

I agree that Bone Breaker should have a save, otherwise you just hit creatures with it until they don't have any Con left and then they die.

Status Condition is actually an existing comprehensive list.  Why the hell have I never noticed this?  Strat, this would have simplified the Martyr review as well as some of your other stuff.

On Just a Flesh Wound, did you remember that the fast healing you gain will heal double that amount of nonlethal?  It's not an issue, I'm just checking.

Back on Your Feet, only one round of no fury gaining?

At 20th level it doesn't matter anymore, but Tenacity + Shake It Off = Unkillable.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2017, 09:01:55 AM »
As the unofficial homebrew reviewer I feel obligated to finally take a close look at this class.
Thanks!

Why don't you just put "Class skills as PHB Barbarian" up at the top in the skills section instead of down at the bottom?
Added.

I'm not seeing the note that stops gaining fury from attacks that cost fury.  Wait, nevermind, found it.  I was expecting it in the line about attacks granting fury so I missed it.
Do you think that section could be better worded? I was trying to avoid too many run-on sentences. I found myself adding clauses after commas or in parenthesis, so I started breaking sections up.

I agree that Bone Breaker should have a save, otherwise you just hit creatures with it until they don't have any Con left and then they die.
I was more worried about the save for the actual effects rather than the Con damage. Most creatures wouldn't die from the Con damage until the second or third hit, and this requires a standard action. I imagine most creatures just taking axes to the face from a berserker wailing on them would die within that amount of time, anyway.

If I add in the save for the abilities, I was considering halving the Con damage on a successful save, fluffing as the bone is cracked. The (reduced) drop in Con would hit future Fort saves, facilitating future bone breaks.

On Just a Flesh Wound, did you remember that the fast healing you gain will heal double that amount of nonlethal?  It's not an issue, I'm just checking.
Yes. The number of HP gained is still relatively low based on the damage characters of this level will be taking, but that ability does suddenly double the healing per round.

I was considering adding in a regeneration ability around level 15, give or take, and I looked at that combo and realized there was no reason, apart from attaching lost limbs.

Back on Your Feet, only one round of no fury gaining?
Yes, but two things:
  • That's one round where you're still vulnerable, and you won't have things like Iron Skin, second chance, and you'll likely be at half HP.
  • You're also exhausted, so if you don't get that removed externally, you're losing fury at triple the rate. At level 18, with Tireless Rage, you could enter into a rage the next round, on a full attack to gain at least six points, spend three to reduce the exhaustion to fatigue, lose two the next round, then gain more, and spend two more to remove the fatigue. It'd be a bit of hoop jumping, but I don't seem that worried about it.
At 20th level it doesn't matter anymore, but Tenacity + Shake It Off = Unkillable.
Pretty much. Your biggest concerns would be having your body wholly destroyed, or having enough status conditions/death thrown around fast enough that your fury can't keep up. Also, note that Shake it Off, Second Chance, and Tireless Rage take a swift/immediate action to use, so you can't use them all the time.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2017, 03:25:36 PM »
I'm not seeing the note that stops gaining fury from attacks that cost fury.  Wait, nevermind, found it.  I was expecting it in the line about attacks granting fury so I missed it.
Do you think that section could be better worded? I was trying to avoid too many run-on sentences. I found myself adding clauses after commas or in parenthesis, so I started breaking sections up.

The wording is fine, I just skimmed looking for the change.

Quote
I agree that Bone Breaker should have a save, otherwise you just hit creatures with it until they don't have any Con left and then they die.
I was more worried about the save for the actual effects rather than the Con damage. Most creatures wouldn't die from the Con damage until the second or third hit, and this requires a standard action. I imagine most creatures just taking axes to the face from a berserker wailing on them would die within that amount of time, anyway.

If I add in the save for the abilities, I was considering halving the Con damage on a successful save, fluffing as the bone is cracked. The (reduced) drop in Con would hit future Fort saves, facilitating future bone breaks.

Halving Con damage on a successful save would be a good place to go.

Quote
On Just a Flesh Wound, did you remember that the fast healing you gain will heal double that amount of nonlethal?  It's not an issue, I'm just checking.
Yes. The number of HP gained is still relatively low based on the damage characters of this level will be taking, but that ability does suddenly double the healing per round.

I was considering adding in a regeneration ability around level 15, give or take, and I looked at that combo and realized there was no reason, apart from attaching lost limbs.

I agree that Regen isn't needed.  Things as is look good.

Quote
Back on Your Feet, only one round of no fury gaining?
Yes, but two things:
  • That's one round where you're still vulnerable, and you won't have things like Iron Skin, second chance, and you'll likely be at half HP.
  • You're also exhausted, so if you don't get that removed externally, you're losing fury at triple the rate. At level 18, with Tireless Rage, you could enter into a rage the next round, on a full attack to gain at least six points, spend three to reduce the exhaustion to fatigue, lose two the next round, then gain more, and spend two more to remove the fatigue. It'd be a bit of hoop jumping, but I don't seem that worried about it.
At 20th level it doesn't matter anymore, but Tenacity + Shake It Off = Unkillable.
Pretty much. Your biggest concerns would be having your body wholly destroyed, or having enough status conditions/death thrown around fast enough that your fury can't keep up. Also, note that Shake it Off, Second Chance, and Tireless Rage take a swift/immediate action to use, so you can't use them all the time.

I also missed that Shake it Off can't remove the "tired" conditions which makes a big difference.  I have no issues here!

Offline Ellowryn

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2017, 12:24:11 AM »
Looking this over it seems fun, sort of like a fury warrior from WoW.  That being said i find a few things odd.

Fury's benefits are much like a barbarians rage including the penalty to AC but you also give at the same level pretty hefty bonus to AC through natural armor which is weird.  Since you want to be hit this can also be detrimental.  Perhaps changing it to something like Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike (from the crusader class) would be more thematically appropriate.

You give the class a couple of ways to spend points on one big attack which is counter-intuitive due to the fact that this class benefits more from duel wielding that two-handing a weapon.  In fact besides gaining fury from every attack there really isn't anything else to the class to support fighting with two weapons so perhaps changing them to more fit that method of attacking would be best.  Also giving the class other bonus abilities to support two weapons would be useful, such as simply gaining two weapon fighting at 1st and having it automatically upgrade at 6, 11, and 16.

Vigor and Resilience should swap places so that the base 2 scaling ability is gained at 4th level and the base 3 scaling ability is gained at 3.

The Haste ability is kinda clunky.  Im not sure if the extra attack you gain from spending a fury point generates another fury point or not plus it also gives you more bonus AC (the bonus to reflex saves is useful though).  Instead why not just give an extra attack on a full round action at 6 and then two at 12.

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2017, 10:39:11 AM »
Looking this over it seems fun, sort of like a fury warrior from WoW.  That being said i find a few things odd.
Thanks for looking this over!

Fury's benefits are much like a barbarians rage including the penalty to AC but you also give at the same level pretty hefty bonus to AC through natural armor which is weird.  Since you want to be hit this can also be detrimental.  Perhaps changing it to something like Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike (from the crusader class) would be more thematically appropriate.
It's not a natural armor bonus; it's an armor bonus. It gives you the same type of bonus as you'd get from wearing a chain shirt or drinking a potion of Mage Armor. The idea isn't to use the ability to get a super high AC (although you will get a pretty good one at high levels, but fighters are known for having too low AC at high levels), the idea is to give you a roughly level-appropriate AC without wearing armor. This both keeps you from being slowed down by medium/heavy encumbrance ratings, as well as allowing you to run around armored in nothing but oil and pecs/bear furs/whatever.

You give the class a couple of ways to spend points on one big attack which is counter-intuitive due to the fact that this class benefits more from duel wielding that two-handing a weapon.  In fact besides gaining fury from every attack there really isn't anything else to the class to support fighting with two weapons so perhaps changing them to more fit that method of attacking would be best.  Also giving the class other bonus abilities to support two weapons would be useful, such as simply gaining two weapon fighting at 1st and having it automatically upgrade at 6, 11, and 16.
I was hoping to give an incentive to use either form of fighting, rather than shoe horn the class into One True style. So, using your fury spenders gives you an incentive to use a single large weapon (likely sans Power Attack to make sure it hits). When attempting to gain rapid fury, you'd want to TWF. When charging with Power Attack, you'd want to use one large weapon.

I figure this guy is either making single, big attacks, relying on the damage he takes to boost his fury, or running around like an axe-tornado gaining fury, spending it on mobility and defense/healing abilities. And other than feats spent/gear purchased, there's nothing in the class abilities to stop him from switching as need be.

Edit: I suppose you could have your cake and eat it too by using a two-handed weapon, and making off-hand attacks with armor spikes. This might be considered too cheesy by many (and would require you to wear armor, partially interfering with Iron Skin), but you'd be able to make the large, two-handed attacks at the same attack rate as a TWFer.

Vigor and Resilience should swap places so that the base 2 scaling ability is gained at 4th level and the base 3 scaling ability is gained at 3.
I noted that they both came in at "odd" levels, but I wanted to see the Fast Healing come online before Damage Reduction. I mean, it really wouldn't change much to swap them. It's a totally subjective decision on my part.

Edit: The reason I remember picking that, was I wanted Vigor to be available at a level where it would only heal one point per round. Again, this is totally subjective, and several of the low-level abilities could get juggled around a bit without ruining things. I wanted to provide something offensive and something defensive/utility based each level, at the lower levels. Swapping Vigor and Resilience would stay within that paradigm.

The Haste ability is kinda clunky.  Im not sure if the extra attack you gain from spending a fury point generates another fury point or not plus it also gives you more bonus AC (the bonus to reflex saves is useful though).  Instead why not just give an extra attack on a full round action at 6 and then two at 12.
What do you mean by "clunky"? The duration on it, or what? Since Haste isn't an attack (more like a ToB boost), you would gain fury on each attack dealt. If that extra attack hits, you would gain a point of fury you otherwise wouldn't, effectively making the ability "free". I'm fine with that, because it's not guaranteed, and it limits you to making a full attack that round. Once you get to a level where the duration is extended, I was figuring you'd basically be running around with a much-increased movement increase, as well as occasionally making an extra attack on a full-attack. In my estimation, the extra speed is likely as (more?) useful for using in conjunction with all of the standard action attacks, as well as doubling the effectiveness of Leap.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 10:59:52 AM by RobbyPants »
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Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2017, 10:50:28 AM »
Halving Con damage on a successful save would be a good place to go.
Done.
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Offline Ellowryn

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2017, 03:31:32 PM »
Looking this over it seems fun, sort of like a fury warrior from WoW.  That being said i find a few things odd.
Thanks for looking this over!

Np

Fury's benefits are much like a barbarians rage including the penalty to AC but you also give at the same level pretty hefty bonus to AC through natural armor which is weird.  Since you want to be hit this can also be detrimental.  Perhaps changing it to something like Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike (from the crusader class) would be more thematically appropriate.
It's not a natural armor bonus; it's an armor bonus. It gives you the same type of bonus as you'd get from wearing a chain shirt or drinking a potion of Mage Armor. The idea isn't to use the ability to get a super high AC (although you will get a pretty good one at high levels, but fighters are known for having too low AC at high levels), the idea is to give you a roughly level-appropriate AC without wearing armor. This both keeps you from being slowed down by medium/heavy encumbrance ratings, as well as allowing you to run around armored in nothing but oil and pecs/bear furs/whatever.

For some reason i read that as natural armor for some reason, my bad, but the point still stands.  This class wants to be hit by every attack generated by the enemy, missed attacks = less fury.  What you really want for defense is DR as you still generate fury but take less damage.  The other part of the ability (enchanting your skin and such) is cool and useful and doesn't need any change.

You give the class a couple of ways to spend points on one big attack which is counter-intuitive due to the fact that this class benefits more from duel wielding that two-handing a weapon.  In fact besides gaining fury from every attack there really isn't anything else to the class to support fighting with two weapons so perhaps changing them to more fit that method of attacking would be best.  Also giving the class other bonus abilities to support two weapons would be useful, such as simply gaining two weapon fighting at 1st and having it automatically upgrade at 6, 11, and 16.
I was hoping to give an incentive to use either form of fighting, rather than shoe horn the class into One True style. So, using your fury spenders gives you an incentive to use a single large weapon (likely sans Power Attack to make sure it hits). When attempting to gain rapid fury, you'd want to TWF. When charging with Power Attack, you'd want to use one large weapon.

I figure this guy is either making single, big attacks, relying on the damage he takes to boost his fury, or running around like an axe-tornado gaining fury, spending it on mobility and defense/healing abilities. And other than feats spent/gear purchased, there's nothing in the class abilities to stop him from switching as need be.

Edit: I suppose you could have your cake and eat it too by using a two-handed weapon, and making off-hand attacks with armor spikes. This might be considered too cheesy by many (and would require you to wear armor, partially interfering with Iron Skin), but you'd be able to make the large, two-handed attacks at the same attack rate as a TWFer.

So your saying you want the player to chose between doing damage and using class features?

Vigor and Resilience should swap places so that the base 2 scaling ability is gained at 4th level and the base 3 scaling ability is gained at 3.
I noted that they both came in at "odd" levels, but I wanted to see the Fast Healing come online before Damage Reduction. I mean, it really wouldn't change much to swap them. It's a totally subjective decision on my part.

Edit: The reason I remember picking that, was I wanted Vigor to be available at a level where it would only heal one point per round. Again, this is totally subjective, and several of the low-level abilities could get juggled around a bit without ruining things. I wanted to provide something offensive and something defensive/utility based each level, at the lower levels. Swapping Vigor and Resilience would stay within that paradigm.

That is fine but i think moving the DR up (perhaps merging it with iron skin) will give the class a better feel.

The Haste ability is kinda clunky.  Im not sure if the extra attack you gain from spending a fury point generates another fury point or not plus it also gives you more bonus AC (the bonus to reflex saves is useful though).  Instead why not just give an extra attack on a full round action at 6 and then two at 12.
What do you mean by "clunky"? The duration on it, or what? Since Haste isn't an attack (more like a ToB boost), you would gain fury on each attack dealt. If that extra attack hits, you would gain a point of fury you otherwise wouldn't, effectively making the ability "free". I'm fine with that, because it's not guaranteed, and it limits you to making a full attack that round. Once you get to a level where the duration is extended, I was figuring you'd basically be running around with a much-increased movement increase, as well as occasionally making an extra attack on a full-attack. In my estimation, the extra speed is likely as (more?) useful for using in conjunction with all of the standard action attacks, as well as doubling the effectiveness of Leap.

With you being able to gain fury off the extra attack its fine, and the movement increase slipped my mind but is important, bit i feel like you can improve the ability better by just giving the abilities you want from the spell without actually giving all of them and then adding to it later with the clause that the bonuses given don't stack with the haste spell.

Another thing i noticed is adrenaline surge.  As this is your big in-class way to boost damage while also healing i am on the fence about it being a swift action (the two fury point to use it as a swift action is fine though).  Its fine for most of the class but at higher levels there are more important things to be spending your swift/immediate actions on, and i get that you want to make the player choose between offense and defense, but making it a 1/round free action is too much of a boost.  I don't know.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:33:16 PM by Ellowryn »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2017, 04:18:20 PM »
For some reason i read that as natural armor for some reason, my bad, but the point still stands.  This class wants to be hit by every attack generated by the enemy, missed attacks = less fury.  What you really want for defense is DR as you still generate fury but take less damage.  The other part of the ability (enchanting your skin and such) is cool and useful and doesn't need any change.
You make a point that getting AC too high keeps them from generating fury from attacks. My concern of running around with an AC in the mid teens at high level is that the character becomes Power Attack bait at that point. They might have the Fast Healing to pull through that, but that's the type of attack that cuts right through DR.

Note that at 20th level, the maximum amount of fury the berserker can have is 5 + Con mod. I don't expect them to have a very huge pool, and he gets a lot of attacks at that point. I see getting hit at lower levels as generating more of the berserker's fury than at high level, proportionately.

So your saying you want the player to chose between doing damage and using class features?
Why not? Do note that many of those class feature involve things like AoE damage, heavy damage that bypasses DR and hardness, Con damage + debuffs, or death.

I see full-attack damage as just one way to get things done. This guy has choices to make each round. It's one of the reasons I prefer playing casters.

With you being able to gain fury off the extra attack its fine, and the movement increase slipped my mind but is important, bit i feel like you can improve the ability better by just giving the abilities you want from the spell without actually giving all of them and then adding to it later with the clause that the bonuses given don't stack with the haste spell.
To me, saying "You gain X" rather than "You gain [verbatim description of X], but with these caveats" to be easier. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean? Do you just not like the two different durations?
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Offline Ellowryn

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2017, 05:06:01 PM »
You make a point that getting AC too high keeps them from generating fury from attacks. My concern of running around with an AC in the mid teens at high level is that the character becomes Power Attack bait at that point. They might have the Fast Healing to pull through that, but that's the type of attack that cuts right through DR.

Note that at 20th level, the maximum amount of fury the berserker can have is 5 + Con mod. I don't expect them to have a very huge pool, and he gets a lot of attacks at that point. I see getting hit at lower levels as generating more of the berserker's fury than at high level, proportionately.

To be fair, all pc's are power attack bait at high levels due to the fact that the to hit bonus of melee focused enemies scales almost exponentially while Ac scales linearly.

And the thing with the fury pool is that you are going to be spending multiple fury per round at high levels to deal with the effects of combat.  Using Back on your Feat, Shake it Off, and the various fury attacks puts a big drain on your pool each turn.  Plus full attacking actually becomes more difficult at high levels as mobility becomes extremely important so getting fury from being attacked is even more important.

Why not? Do note that many of those class feature involve things like AoE damage, heavy damage that bypasses DR and hardness, Con damage + debuffs, or death.

I see full-attack damage as just one way to get things done. This guy has choices to make each round. It's one of the reasons I prefer playing casters.

That's fine if you want, just note that as things stand you will be seeing people always choosing one style with this class.

To me, saying "You gain X" rather than "You gain [verbatim description of X], but with these caveats" to be easier. Or am I misunderstanding what you mean? Do you just not like the two different durations?

Eh, what i mean is that the Haste spell gives you a specific list of benefits: +1 Attack on a full attack, +1 to hit, +1 to Ac, +1 to reflex saves, and +30ft to movement speeds.  If you want all those benefits to be given, along with the fact that the ability is countered by the Slow effect, then okay.  But if you only want certain effects, and if you want to improve certain effects (such as extra bonus attacks or movement speeds) then its easier to just give those specific abilities while also stating it wont stack with the spell.

And the different duration's are fine, again i would just always give them a bonus attack on a full round attack while in fury but a semi-scaling of the ability is okay.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 05:09:56 PM by Ellowryn »

Offline RobbyPants

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2017, 01:56:37 PM »
To be fair, all pc's are power attack bait at high levels due to the fact that the to hit bonus of melee focused enemies scales almost exponentially while Ac scales linearly.
True.

And the thing with the fury pool is that you are going to be spending multiple fury per round at high levels to deal with the effects of combat.  Using Back on your Feat, Shake it Off, and the various fury attacks puts a big drain on your pool each turn.  Plus full attacking actually becomes more difficult at high levels as mobility becomes extremely important so getting fury from being attacked is even more important.
Note that most of those take a swift or immediate action to use. As written, the berserker has to choose between one of those each round, and this also caps his fury expenditure on these at one a round.

That being said, I wonder if I should write in an ability at mid level that gives him an extra swift/immediate action each round, so long has he has a point of fury. I think it's both thematic, and gives him more flexibility in his resistances.

That's fine if you want, just note that as things stand you will be seeing people always choosing one style with this class.
I think before 6th level, the extra weapon helps at generating fury at a faster rate. After that point, between the extra iterative attack and the availability of Haste, the berserker will probably be generating fury faster than he can spend it with just a single weapon. Again, if I give out an extra swift/immediate action, he might start spending it fast enough that this becomes an issue. But, after 6th level, I'm not sure there's much incentive to use two weapons with the class. Everything else seems to scream "one, big attack".

Eh, what i mean is that the Haste spell gives you a specific list of benefits: +1 Attack on a full attack, +1 to hit, +1 to Ac, +1 to reflex saves, and +30ft to movement speeds.  If you want all those benefits to be given, along with the fact that the ability is countered by the Slow effect, then okay.
Yeah, that's what I was going for.
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2017, 04:07:47 PM »
Did Leap get a big adjustment or did I just miss some stuff?

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2017, 08:59:38 AM »
Did Leap get a big adjustment or did I just miss some stuff?
I haven't touched Leap since I posted it.

The thoughts running through my head when I designed it was:
  • Add in the ability to bypass (relatively) small obstacles at low level.
  • Add a charge attack option to attack low-flying fliers. Also, lets his charge not be foiled by leaving a chair in his charging lane.
  • The fall damage reduction starts small and builds, but is meant to mitigate the falling damage this guy will start taking when he charges flying creatures.
  • The level six wall jumps come online around the time casters get short-duration flight for their top spell slots. It's not the same, but it gives him more mobility in cities, forests, and possibly caverns and dungeons.
  • The longer-range (multi-round) jumps come online when casters are casting Overland Flight. This isn't nearly the same thing, but it's assumed you can clear some absurdly large chasms or jump up some pretty high buildings and cliffs by this point.
Is there something there you didn't see last time that concerns you?
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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2017, 10:29:59 AM »
No concerns with Leap, but I am curious if the falling damage reduction only applies if you are "leaping".

Also, if you do implement an extra swift/immediate action I would suggest that you restrict the extra action to only actions that require expending fury.

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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2017, 10:35:53 AM »
No concerns with Leap, but I am curious if the falling damage reduction only applies if you are "leaping".
It's meant to always apply. Of course, this does render the berserker 100% immune to falling damage at 18th level. I'm not really worried about it, but it is a thing that happens.

Also, if you do implement an extra swift/immediate action I would suggest that you restrict the extra action to only actions that require expending fury.
I'd wondered about that. I haven't given an exhausted look at what types of weird combos could happen from triggering magic items and/or casting specific spells, but it's an easy clause to add in. Also, I figure it's safer to do that then to change the abilities to be free actions that can be used X times a round.

One other thought: rather than giving 1 extra swift/immediate action at level X, how about something like "At level X, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a free action to gain an extra swift or immediate action during his turn. This action must be spent on an ability that costs fury. He may use this ability when it is not his turn."

This lets you presumably go nuts in one round with fury spenders, but each use also costs a point of fury.
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Re: Berserker (3.5)
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2017, 12:14:29 PM »
No concerns with Leap, but I am curious if the falling damage reduction only applies if you are "leaping".
It's meant to always apply. Of course, this does render the berserker 100% immune to falling damage at 18th level. I'm not really worried about it, but it is a thing that happens.

In that case I would switch around the language of the ability to this: "At 4th level, the berserker lessens any falling damage he takes by an amount equal to his damage reduction per damage die. He also may spend a point of fury as a move-action to jump a distance of up to his base land speed. He may instead use a full-round action to jump up to double his land speed. If he does, he may make a charge attack at the end of his movement."

That way the damage reduction is clearly not a part of the leaping.

Quote
Also, if you do implement an extra swift/immediate action I would suggest that you restrict the extra action to only actions that require expending fury.
I'd wondered about that. I haven't given an exhausted look at what types of weird combos could happen from triggering magic items and/or casting specific spells, but it's an easy clause to add in. Also, I figure it's safer to do that then to change the abilities to be free actions that can be used X times a round.

One other thought: rather than giving 1 extra swift/immediate action at level X, how about something like "At level X, the berserker may spend a point of fury as a free action to gain an extra swift or immediate action during his turn. This action must be spent on an ability that costs fury. He may use this ability when it is not his turn."

This lets you presumably go nuts in one round with fury spenders, but each use also costs a point of fury.

I'd have to go through the abilities again and see what the worst case scenario is for a nova like that before being able to give an opinion.