Author Topic: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)  (Read 3420 times)

Offline Necrosnoop110

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(A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« on: July 19, 2015, 11:02:28 PM »
It seems that when AD&D 1E was first rolling off the presses it was published in the following order:

1) Monster Manual December 1977
2) Player's Handbook June 1978
3) Dungeon Master's Guide August 1979

Just curious but does anyone have any idea why on earth the Monster Manual would have been published before the Player's Handbook? What was the thinking there?

Cheers,
Necro

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 11:17:30 PM »
As an additional curiosity the other editions seem to have had the following arrangements (either PHB first or all three at once):

AD&D 2E
1) Player's Handbook March 1, 1989
2) Dungeon Master's Guide June 1, 1989
3) Monstrous Manual June 1, 1993 (curious that it was called Monstrous and not Monster)

D&D 3.0E
1) Player's Handbook August 1, 2000
2) Dungeon Master's Guide September 1, 2000
3) Monster Manual October 1, 2000

D&D 3.5E
1) Player's Handbook July 1, 2003
1) Dungeon Master's Guide July 1, 2003
1) Monster Manual July 1, 2003

D&D 4E
1) Player's Handbook June 6, 2008
1) Dungeon Master's Guide June 6, 2008
1) Monster Manual June 6, 2008

D&D 5E
1) Player's Handbook August 19, 2014
2) Monster Manual September 17, 2014 (curious that the Monster Manual came before the DMG)
3) Dungeon Master's Guide December 9, 2014
« Last Edit: July 20, 2015, 12:18:08 PM by Necrosnoop110 »

Offline Officeronin

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2015, 01:26:55 AM »
It seems that when AD&D 1E was first rolling off the presses it was published in the following order:

1) Monster Manual December 1977
2) Player's Handbook June 1978
3) Dungeon Master's Guide August 1979

Just curious but does anyone have any idea why on earth the Monster Manual would have been published before the Player's Handbook? What was the thinking there?

Cheers,
Necro

The "to hit" tables and saving throws were in the DMG...  I recall it being challenging to run a game.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2015, 12:39:29 PM »
The Monstrous Manual was such a great book.  It was like hours of adventure all packed into one hefty, pretty tome.  I even like a title, but maybe that's b/c as a DM I liked it's implications:  "here's you get monstrous," i.e., woe betide your players.

The DMG being published after the Monster Manual for 5E makes me think that there just isn't much of value in the book.  Not that I think the 3E DMG is chock full of great stuff, other than magic items, but you'd think they might make it a valuable book for running the game.  Or, perhaps they have no idea what they're doing.

First Edition D&D is before my time, but I think it might have been b/c much of the rules were published in pamphlets or boxed sets separate from the "big books" approach adopted later? 

Offline Keldar

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2015, 01:06:33 PM »
Well according to Dragon 320's 30th Anniversary article, The MM was the first hardcover book for D&D.  Sadly no word there on why it came out first.  I'd guess that either the monsters were close enough to be compatible with D&D, the MM writer(s) got done faster, or there were some kind of quick start rules available in soft cover at the time.

2E MMs weren't hardcover, rather they were loose leaf sheets meant to be put in 3 ring binders.  Which is probably the rationale for the slight name difference.  That or a typo.  :p

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 04:57:35 PM »
2E MMs weren't hardcover, rather they were loose leaf sheets meant to be put in 3 ring binders.  Which is probably the rationale for the slight name difference.  That or a typo.  :p
Both the hardbound book and the looseleaf stuff you could put in binders were part of 2E AD&D rules.  Although I think they started making a conversion away from the looseleaf to softcover appendices in the 90s.  The hardcover book was a compilation of the previous stuff, according to wikipedia, but they were using the same ruleset. 

Offline Necrosnoop110

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 05:34:40 PM »
2E MMs weren't hardcover, rather they were loose leaf sheets meant to be put in 3 ring binders.  Which is probably the rationale for the slight name difference.  That or a typo.  :p
Both the hardbound book and the looseleaf stuff you could put in binders were part of 2E AD&D rules.  Although I think they started making a conversion away from the looseleaf to softcover appendices in the 90s.  The hardcover book was a compilation of the previous stuff, according to wikipedia, but they were using the same ruleset.
I started gaming in the AD&D 2nd edition era and just from memory, I remember things beginning loose-leaf in parts and then a hardbound "compilation" issued later. 

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 05:43:19 PM »
I vaguely recall games happening in spite of the 1e MM being first.
There must have been some backwards compatibility to OD&D ... but  ... idk wtf.


...
AD&D 2E
1) Player's Handbook March 1, 1989
2) Dungeon Master's Guide June 1, 1989
3) Monstrous Manual June 1, 1993 (curious that it was called Monstrous and not Monster)
...

3a) ... that goofy Monstrous "loose leaf binder" Manual , first though idk the date
3b) ... later as a real book , like y'all said
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Libertad

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2015, 08:41:38 PM »
First Edition was intended as an upgrade for Original/Basic, so for 1977 one could conceivably play with the rules.

Offline Samwise

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Re: (A)D&D Editions & Book Order (History)
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2015, 09:32:02 PM »
While there was a desire to expand the rules, AD&D was intended to function as a cutout of Dave Arneson from royalties.
Naturally that doesn't make for good ad copy, so the reason given was to "upgrade" and "enhance" the system, compiling everything related to each subject (character creations, monsters, rules for the DM) into one, very well put together hardcover (and the covers of the first ones were quite impressive).
Later, an additional reason, that of establishing a "standard" set of rules for tournament play was asserted. (That assertion went over . . . poorly, and contributed to a significant disdain for Gygax personally and the company in general among players.)

Because of the changes between O(riginal)D&D and AD&D, the game was MM was usable with only minor quirks with the old rules. (The biggest changes was the worst AC being 10 instead of 9.) It was also thus the easiest to produce, basically being just editing and expanded formatting.
Things get a little more divergent with the PHB, and there was considerable unrest waiting for the DMG. Fortunately for all us raging nerds, TSR published a "preview" in The Dragon #22 (it still had the preposition back then) containing the combat tables (including the save tables) and some magic item previews.
The DMG contained significant text on background and development concepts, and its 230 (or so, it gained a few with repeat printings) was beyond humongous at the time for a "wargame". (Which is what people treated it as, albeit an exceptionally quirky one.) (100 pages of "vehicle" (monster) charts was also huge, but people loved that kind of "detail" for their wargames. The PHB was "really" only 42 pages of "nation" (character class) charts and basic rules with 60 pages of more "vehicle" (spells) modifications, and so also was "big", but nowhere near the class of the DMG.)

I don't recall the specific details, but I vaguely recall something about the "Monstrous" books being a combination between ad hype for the size (particularly for the Manual as a single book, though the Compendiums had that "loose leaf" shtick going so you'd put them together into a single tome), and a bit of arrogance in "improving" the language and reading level in the books. (Gygax used both the "archaic", Latin-derived English grammar of the pre-1950s, combined with a vocabulary inspired by the insanely florid and baroque style of Jack Vance. If you think Vancian magic is a pain, try reading Vancian text sometime.)