Author Topic: Base Class Reference & Tier Information  (Read 15160 times)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« on: February 16, 2013, 02:48:46 PM »
I have staged a coup of the Why Tier X's are in Tier X series of threads with a complete list. My hope is to free JaronK the burden of now a 3rd and a maybe 4th 'tier system for classes' thread. This will save the discussion of tiers themselves for the tier thread. Concern over specific classes can go here.

Let me know if I am missing any non-variant base class in 3.5. I intend to include them all.

I do not claim to intimately know or play each class. The work I have done is completely at the mercy of the boards and my be changed, so please try to keep indignation to its lowest. Any balance concerns are considered after the dirty handbook fixes.

You will notice that the upper tiers are casters. If you are looking for all casting classes, feel free to look here.

Finally, I will try to keep up with the discussion and add mention about specific class features when needed; hence the two posts per tier.


Coloring Key for optimizing the base classes (If you are color blind, you can quote this unlocked thread to find the color tags):
Too simple or too few options: It is just about as powerful or weak as it is going to be even after optimization so it's not worth the effort. For low tier classes this means you can't stretch it into higher tiers as easily. For upper tiers its nice that you probably won't suck that much even if you are fairly new, aka noob-friendly.
Some complexity, some options: You get out what you put in. Heavy optimization won't be as obvious as blue colored, but it will be noticable. Consider this normal 'stretchiness' to go up or down a tier dependent on the build and player. JaronK noticed that optimization bumps up or down a tier - two for classes on the edge or with more extensive cheese. This is normal.
Too complex or too many options: You get more than what you put in. You really need to understand how this class works. For high tier classes this is bad because you can't start cold and be the epitome of tier 1. For lower tier classes this is actually a good thing because if you try, you can pull it up more than normal. However it might be frustrating to get past the learning curve, aka NOT noob-friendly.

NOTE: the above is mostly independent of tiering. For instance, an optimal paladin will have to pour in huge amount of effort to get at the usefulness of a rather run of the mill psionic rogue. DMs often know this internally for the more compressed, higher end (they view Druids and Psions with suspicion) but think wider, lower-end paladins and rangers need nerfs because those players will have both melee and spellcasting. This is because they haven't tried to build wide classes up to the higher end before or they would realize how painful it really is. They tend to give Archivists or Wizards whatever they want but offer nothing special or extra to Mariners or Swashbucklers. Those are the types of DMs who need this list, and sadly its most DMs -- even if they otherwise DM well.


Tier Summary:
1 Can do everything (often full casters preparing huge lists)
2 Can do anything, but not everything (often full casters with limited spells known from huge lists)
3 Extreme versatility and power, but not both (either constrained lists or mechanics)
4 From a cynical point of view, does what's on the tin (constrained lists and mechanics on 3/4 casting, so UMD)
5 Don't pull its own weight even in its area (constrained lists and mechanics on 1/2 casting, no UMD)
6 Utterly fails to do much of anything (awful mechanics or no usable casting / UMD)

Tier Outline
6(3+3NPC): Aristocrat, Commoner, Divine Mind (CP 9), Warrior, Samurai (CW 6), Truenamer (TM 198)

5(14+2NPC): Battledancer (DC 26), Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements), Eidolon (Gh 16), Expert, Fighter, Healer (MH 8), Knight, Lurk (CP 13), Magewright (ECS 256), Mariner (LotT 13), Mlar (Dungeon Magazine 100 256-257 githyanki section), Monk, Ninja (CAd 5), Noble (DCS 50), Paladin, Samurai (with Imperious Command feat), Soulborn (MoI 25), Soulknife, Swashbuckler (CW 11)

4(18+1NPC): Adept, Barbarian, Dragonfire Adept (with Breath Effects), Dragon Shaman (PHB2 11), Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant), Jester (DC 36), Hexblade (CW 5), Marshal, Master (WotL 21), Montebank (DC 42), Nightstalker (Races of Ansalon 153), Ranger, Rogue, Savant (DC 45), Scout (CAd 10), Spellthief, Sohei (OA 27), Totemist, Warlock (CArc 5), Warmage (CArc 10)

3(16): Ardent (CP 5), Bard, Beguiler (PHB2 6), Binder (TM 9), Crusader (ToB 8), Dread Necromancer (HH 84), Duskblade (PHB2 19), Factotum (Du 14), Incarnate (MoI 20), Psychic Rogue (with powers), Psychic Warrior, Ranger (Wildshape variant), Shadowcaster (TM 111), Shugenja (CD 10), Spellthief (Trickster Variant) [DragMag353p85], Swordsage (ToB 15), Warblade, Wilder,

2(9): Binder (with Online Vestiges), Death Master (DC 31), Favored Soul (CD 6), Mystic (DCS 47), Psion, Sha'ir (DC 51), Shaman (OA 23), Sorcerer, Spirit Shaman (CD 14), Wu Jen (CArc 14)

1(6): Archivist, Artificer (ECS 29), Cleric, Druid, "Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF), Wizard

Other(12): Aberrant Paragon (DragMag332 45), Eidoloncer (Gh 17), Drow Paragon, Dwarf Paragon, Elf Paragon, Gnome Paragon, Half-Dragon Paragon, Half-Elf Paragon, Half-Orc Paragon, Halfling Paragon, Human Paragon, Kobold Paragon, Orc Paragon, Tiefling Paragon



Tier Relative Amount Breakdown: (missing a few classes, feel free to recalculate)
6: 8.3% with NPCs, 4.5% without
5: 22.2% with NPCs, 21.2% without
4: 26.3% with NPCs, 27.2% without
3: 22.2% with NPCs, 24.2% without
2: 12.5% with NPCs, 13.6% without
1: 8.3% with NPCs, 9% without

Displayed in groups of 2:
6&5: 30.6% with NPCs, 25.8% without
4&3: 48.6% with NPCs, 51.5% without
2&1: 20.8% with NPCs, 22.6% without

Results:
The mode is Tier 4 which JaronK suspected might be the 'default' level of power a PC should have, followed by Tier 3. Notice that when NPC classes are considered, Tier 3 and Tier 5 tie for the second most common tier, making us even more sure that Tier 4 is truly the norm. Tier 6 and 1 have the same number of outliers when NPC classes are considered, which is good because each is considered 'broken' albeit in opposite manners. Of course, if Truenamer is thrown any bones and more optimial ACFs are used, Tier 6 is an NPC-only tier. Furthermore the mostly non-casting Tier 5 makes up a greater chunk than the all full caster classes of Tier 2, perhaps indicating greater hesitation with 9th level spells and powers.

Discussion Thread

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2013, 10:21:35 PM »
Base Class Chassis Chart

Class?+intd?BABFortRefWill* = Variable Tier
Aberrant Paragon2+d8?3/4BadBadGood*
Aristocrat4+d83/4BadBadGoodNPC
Adept2 + d61/2BadBadGoodNPC
Archivist4 + d61/2GoodBadGood
Ardent2 + d61/2BadBadGood
Aristocrat4 + d83/4BadBadGoodNPC
Artificer4 + d63/4BadBadGood
Barbarian4 + d123/4GoodBadBad
Bard6 + d61BadGoodGood
Battledancer4 + d83/4BadGoodBad
Beguiler6 + d61BadBadGood
Binder2 + d81/2GoodBadGood
Cleric2 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Commoner2 + d43/4BadBadBadNPC
Crusader4 + d101/2GoodBadBad
Death Master2 + d81BadBadGood
Divine Mind2 + d103/4GoodBadGood
Dragonfire Adept4 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Dragon Shaman2 + d101/2GoodBadGood
Dread Necromancer2 + d63/4BadBadGood
Drow Paragon4 + d61/2BadGoodBad
Druid4 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Duskblade2 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Dwarf Paragon2 + d101GoodBadBad
Eidolon2 + d81BadBadGood
Eidoloncer2 + d61BadBadGood
Elf Paragon2 + d81/2BadGoodBad
Erudite2 + d43/4BadBadGood
Expert6 + d61/2BadBadGoodNPC
Factotum6 + d83/4BadGoodBad
Favored Soul2 + d83/4GoodGoodGood
Fighter2 + d103/4GoodBadBad
Gnome Paragon4 + d61GoodBadGood
Half-Dragon Paragon4 + d123/4GoodBadGood
Half-Elf Paragon4 + d81BadGoodBad
Half-Orc Paragon4 + d83/4GoodBadBad
Halfling Paragon4 + d61BadGoodBad
Healer4 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Hexblade2 + d101/2BadBadGood
Human Paragon4 + d81BadBadGood
Incarnate2 + d63/4GoodBadGood
Jester6 + d61/2BadGoodGood
Knight2 + d123/4BadBadGood
Kobold Paragon4 + d61BadGoodGood
Lurk4 + d63/4BadGoodGood
Magewright2 + d43/4BadBadGoodNPC
Mariner6 + d81/2GoodGoodBad
Marshall4 + d81GoodBadGood
Master8 + d63/4BadBadGood
Mlar4 + d63/4BadBadGoodNPC
Monk4 + d83/4GoodGoodGood
Mountebank6 + d63/4BadGoodBad
Mystic2 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Nightstalker4 + d63/4BadGoodGood
Ninja6 + d63/4BadGoodBad
Noble4 + d83/4BadGoodGood
Orc Paragon2 + d103/4GoodBadBad
Paladin2 + d101GoodBadBad
Psion2 + d41BadBadGood
Psychic Rogue6 + d61/2BadGoodBad
Psychic Warrior2 + d83/4GoodBadBad
Ranger6 + d83/4GoodGoodBad
Rogue8 + d61BadGoodBad
Samurai (CW)2 + d103/4GoodBadBad
Samurai (OA)4 + d101GoodBadGood
Savant6 + d81BadBadGood
Scout8 + d83/4BadGoodBad
Sha'ir2 + d43/4BadBadGood
Shadowcaster2 + d61/2GoodBadGood
Shaman4 + d61/2BadBadGood
Shugenja4 + d63/4BadBadGood
Sohei2 + d101/2GoodBadGood
Sorcerer2 + d43/4BadBadGood
Soulborn2 + d101/2GoodBadBad
Soulknife4 + d101BadGoodGood
Spellthief6 + d63/4BadBadGood
Spirit Shaman4 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Swashbuckler4 + d103/4GoodBadBad
Swordsage6 + d81BadGoodGood
Tiefling Paragon4 + d83/4GoodGoodGood
Totemist4 + d83/4GoodGoodBad
Truenamer4 + d63/4BadBadGood
Urban Druid4 + d83/4GoodBadGood
Warblade4 + d123/4GoodBadBad
Warlock2 + d61BadBadGood
Warmage2 + d63/4BadBadGood
Warrior2 + d81/2GoodBadBadNPC
Wilder4 + d61BadBadGood
Wizard2 + d43/4BadBadGood
Wu Jen2 + d41/2BadBadGood

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2013, 10:23:12 PM »
In-Class Skills Charts


Abbreviations for Table 1: United, PHB Skills
A = Appraise
Ba = Balance
Bl = Bluffp
Cl = Climb
Co = Concentration
Cr = Craft
DS = Decipher Script
Dm = Diplomacy
DD = Disable Device
Dg = Disguise
EA = Escape Artist
F = Forgery
GI = Gather Information
HA = Handle Animal
He = Heal
Hi = Hide
I = Intimidate
J = Jump
L = Listen
MS = Move Silently
OL = Open Lock
R = Ride
Se = Search
SM = Sense Motive
SH = Sleight Of Hand
SL = Speak Language
Sc = Spellcraft
Sp = Spot
Su = Survival
Sw = Swim
Tu = Tumble
UM = Use Magic Device
UR = Use Rope


Abbreviations for Table 2: Separate or non-PHB Skills
AH = Autohypnosis
IF = Iajitsu Focus (OA 58)
KA = Knowledge (Arcana)
Ke = Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering)
KD = Knowledge (Dungeoneering)
KG = Knowledge (Geography)
KH = Knowledge (History)
KL = Knowledge (Local)
KNa = Knowledge (Nature)
KNo = Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty)
KPs = Knowledge (Psionics)
KR = Knowledge (Religion)
KPl = Knowledge (The Planes)
LD = Lucid Dreaming (MotP 203)
ML = Martial Lore (ToB 28)
Per = Perform
Pro = Profession
Psi = Psicraft
TS = Truespeak (ToM 195)
UP = Use Psionic Device


Table 1: United, PHB Skills
ClassABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHAHeHiIJLMSOLRSeSMSoHSLScSpSuSwTuUMDUR
Aberrant ParagonBlClCoDmEAHiIMSSMSu
AdeptCoCrHAHeScSu
ArchivistCoCrDSDmGIHeSeSc
ArdentCoCrDmHeUMD
AristocratABlDmDgFGIHAILRSMSLSpSuSw
ArtificerACoCrDDOLSeScUMD
BarbarianClCrHAIJLRSuSw
BardABaBlClCoCrDSDmDgEAGIHiJLMSSMSoHSLScSwTuUMD
BattledancerBaClEAHiJLMSOLSoHSwTu
BeguilerABaBlClCoDSDmDDDgEAFGIHiJLMSOLSeSMSoHSLScSpSwTuUMD
BinderBlCoCrDSDmGIISM
ClericABlCoCrDmDDDgGIHeHiISeSMScSpSu
CommonerClCrHAJLRSpSwUR
CrusaderBaCoCrDmIJR
Death MasterCoCrDSHeISc
Divine MindClCoCrJRSw
Dragonfire AdeptABlClCoCrDSDmIJLSeSMSLScSpUMD
Dragon SoHamanABlClCrDgGIHeHiIJMSSeScSuSw
Dread NecromancerBlCoCrDSDgHiISc
Drow ParagonClCrHiIJLMSScSpSuSw
DruidCoCrDmHAHeLRScSpSuSw
DuskbladeClCoCrDSJRSMScSw
Dwarf ParagonAClCrIJSMSu
EidolonBaBlCoHiILSMSpSu
EidoloncerCoSc
Elf ParagonClCrDmHiJLMSScSpSuSw
Erudite
ExpertAny 10Any 10
FactotUMDABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHAHeHiIJLMSOLRSeSMSoHSLScSpSuSwTuUMDUR
Favored SoulCoCrDmHeJSMSc
FighterClCrHAIJRSw
Gnome ParagonBlClCrDmHiJLMSScSw
Half-Dragon ParagonABlCoDmDgGIHeHiIJLMSSeSMScSpSuSw
Half-Elf ParagonBlClCrDmHiJLMSSw
Half-Orc ParagonClCrHAIJRSuSw
Halfling ParagonBlClCrDmHiJLMSSuSw
HealerCoCrDmHAHeSMScSu
HexbladeBlCoCrDmIRSc
HUMDan ParagonAny 10Any 10
IncarnateCoCrSc
JesterBaBlClDDDgEAGIHiIJMSOLSeSMSoHSLTuUMDUR
KnightClHAIJRSw
Kobold ParagonBlClCoCrDDEAGIHiJLMSSeScSpSw
LurkBlClCoCrDgEAHiJLMSSoHSpSwTu
MagewrightCoCrHASc
MarinerBaBlClCrEAGIJSLSuSwTuUR
MarSoHalBlDmHAILRSMSLSpSuSw
MasterABaBlCoCrDSDmDDFGIHAHeILMSOLRSeSMSoHSLScSpSuTuUMDUR
MlarCoCrScSu
MonkBaClCoCrDmEAHiJLMSSMSpSwTu
MountebankABaBlCoDmDDDgEAFGIHiIMSOLSeSMSoHScTuUMD
MysticCoCrDmHeSc
NightstalkerBaBlCoCrDmDDEAGIHiLMSOLSeSoHScSpSuUMDUR
NinjaBaBlClCoCrDDDgEAGIHiJLMSOLSeSMSoHSpSwTu
Noble
Orc ParagonClCrIJLSpSuSw
PaladinCoCrDmHAHeRSM
PsionBaBlClCoCrDmDDDgGIHeIJLRSMSpSuSw
Psychic RogueABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHiIJLMSOLSeSMSoHSpSwTuUR
Psychic WarriorClCoCrJRSeSw
RangerClCoCrHAHeHiJLMSRSeSpSuSwUR
RogueABaBlClCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHiIJLMSOLSeSMSoHSpSwTuUMDUR
Samurai (CW)CoCrDmIRSM
Samurai (OA)ClCrDmIJRSMSw
SavantABaBlClCoCrDSDmDDDgEAFGIHAHeHiIJLMSOLRSeSMSoHSLScSpSuSwTuUMDUR
ScoutBaClCrDDEAHiJLMSRSeSMSLSpSuSwTuUR
SoHa'irBlCoCrDSDmLSMSc
SoHadowcasterCoCrHiIMSScSp
SoHamanCoCrDmHeSc
SoHugenjaCoCrDmHeSc
SoheiCoCrDmHe
SorcererBlCoCrSc
SoulbornClCoCrHAHeJRScSw
SoulknifeClCoCrHiJLMSSpTu
SpellthiefABlCoCrDSDDEAGIHiJLMSOLSeSLScSpSwTuUMD
Spirit SoHamanCoCrDmHAHeLRScSpSuSw
SwaSoHbucklerBaBlClCrDmEAJSMSwTuUR
SwordsageBaClCoCrHeHiIJLMSRSMSwTu
Tiefling ParagonBlCrDgHiLMSSoHSp
TotemistCoCrHALRScSpSuSw
TruenamerCoCrUMD
Urban DruidBlCoCrDmGIISMSLScSu
WarbladeBaClCoCrDmIJSwTu
WarlockBlCoCrDsIJSMScUMD
WarmageCoCrISc
WarriorClHAIJRSw
WilderBaBlClCoCrEAIJLSMSpSwTu
WizardCoCrDSSc
Wu JenCoCrSc

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2013, 10:24:45 PM »
Table 2: Separate or non-PHB Skills

ClassAHIFKAKeKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKPsKRKPlLDMLPerProPsiTSUP
Aberrant Paragon
AdeptKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
ArchivistKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
ArdentAHKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiProPsiUP*
AristocratKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPer
ArtificerKAKEKtPPro
Barbarian
BardKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPerPro
BattledancerPer
BeguilerKAKLPro
BinderKAKHKRKtPPro
ClericKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
CommonerPro
CrusaderKHKRML
Death MasterKAKRKtPPro
Divine MindAHKRKPsiProPsi
Dragonfire AdeptKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsi
Dragon ShamanKNa
Dread NecromancerKAKRPro
Drow ParagonKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
DruidKNaPro
DuskbladeKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsi
Dwarf ParagonKDPro
EidolonKtP
EidoloncerKAKNaKRKtP
Elf ParagonKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
Erudite
ExpertAny 10Any 10
FactotumAHIFKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiLDMLPerProPsiTSUP
Favored SoulKAPro
Fighter
Gnome ParagonKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPerPro
Half-Dragon ParagonKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPer
Half-Elf ParagonPerPro
Half-Orc ParagonPro
Halfling ParagonPerPro
HealerKNaKRPro
HexbladeKAPro
Human ParagonAny 10Any 10
IncarnateKAKRKtPPro
JesterKLKNoPer
KnightKNo
Kobold ParagonKAKDPro
LurkAHKPsiProPsiUP
MagewrightKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
MarinerKLKNaPro
MarshalKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPer
MasterKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPerPro
MlarPro
MonkKAKRPerPro
MountebankKtP
MysticKAKNaKRPro
NightstalkerKAKLKRPro
Ninja
Noble
Orc Paragon
PaladinKNoKRPro
PsionAHKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiProPsiUP
Psychic RogueAHKLKPsiPerProUP
Psychic WarriorAHKPsiProPsi
RangerKDKGKNaPro
RogueKLPerPro
Samurai (CW)KHKNo
Samurai (OA)IFPerPro
SavantAHIFKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiLDMLPerProPsiTSUP
ScoutKDKGKNa
Sha'irKAKtPPro
ShadowcasterKAKtPPro
ShamanKAKRPro
ShugenjaKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
SoheiIFKRPro
SorcererKAPro
SoulbornKAKtPPro
SoulknifeAHKPsiPro
SpellthiefKAKL
Spirit ShamanKGKHKLKNaPro
SwashbucklerPro
SwordsageKHKLKNaKNoMLPro
Tiefling ParagonKtPPro
TotemistKAKNaKtPPro
TruenamerKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPerTS
Urban DruidKEKHKLPerPro
WarbladeKHKLML
WarlockKAKRKtPPro
WarmageKAKHPro
Warrior
WilderAHKPsiProPsi
WizardKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro
Wu JenKAKEKDKGKHKLKNaKNoKRKtPKPsiPro

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2013, 10:26:05 PM »
Classes in Tier 1

"Erudite" variant Psion (with Spell to Power ACF)
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • Do you want to cast a 9th level arcane spell spell, including ones wizards can't access? CHECK
  • Do you want to cast every non-discipline 9th level power? CHECK. So far, those double-casting progression classes are more than jealous.
  • Does you DM allow RAW alternate source spell scrolls? If so, congratulations! You're a triple 9 build in a can!
(click to show/hide)


Archivist
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • Casting every divine spell in the game? What could go wrong?
  • You've got some knowledge skills too
(click to show/hide)


Wizard
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • All the good spells are wizard spells. That's a rule when making a splat book, it seems.
  • The ACFs don't hurt either.
(click to show/hide)


Druid
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • Casts almost as well as a cleric.
  • Have a free fighterbear.
  • Become a bear yourself. Very SAD.
  • Obvious decisions: Max Con & Wis, Wilding Clasps + Natural Spell ASAP, Fleshraker + Venomfire at low levels, Aberration or Frozen Wildshape or even Planar Shepard
(click to show/hide)


Cleric
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • Second best spellcasting list. If it isn't on the wizard list (and often even when it is), then it's here.
  • DMM is often an easy boost, if you are going persist.
(click to show/hide)


Artificer
Why it Can Do Just About Anything:
  • Ever wanted to break WBL?
  • Do you enjoy spamming broken spellsinfusions?
(click to show/hide)

Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2013, 10:26:51 PM »
Classes in Tier 2

Psion
Why it's So Powerful:
  • It’s got the most powers learned, RAW, including discipline powers.
  • This alternate magic system is the king of the roost, mainly because of borked, RAW, magic-psionics transparency.
(click to show/hide)


Spirit Shaman
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Spontaneous druid casting that you can change spells known every day. This is superior to spontaneous druid ACF.
  • Pre-buffed metamagic is nice.
  • Most of the class features are meh. The best are the contingent heal and the free CL1 revivify. The free ghost touch and the free undersong is okay.
(click to show/hide)


Sha'ir
Why it's So Powerful:
  • With some optimization, the spellcasting is kind of nice. It allows things that wouldn’t for a DM who doesn’t allow alternate source spell.
  • Other than that it’s a weaker version of a wizard: longer preparation times for the same list, etc. Even the class features aren’t worth a wizard feat.
(click to show/hide)


Sorcerer
Why it's So Powerful:
  • The best list in the game.
  • A smart player picks the best spells (to spam) first, so the limited spells known isn’t a huge deal, but it’s a solid nerf over the wizard.
  • No wizard feats, and a feat tax to apply metamagic.
(click to show/hide)


Death Master
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Get alternate source spell and DMM your otherwise arcane list.
  • It’s a straight upgrade over the dread necro list, with the exact same niche
(click to show/hide)


Favored Soul
Why it's So Powerful:
  • It’s a slight buff over a spontaneous cleric that didn’t want to DMM.
  • More spells, some meh class features. The usual
(click to show/hide)


Wu Jen
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Of the ‘own list’ t2’s it has a decent, unique list.
  • It has a weird place in the canon due to the OA update. Hopefully your DM allows you to take either Watchful Spirit or Sudden Burst for those that have that DotU ring.
(click to show/hide)


Binder (with Online Vestiges)
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Free summons, all day, everyday. Fill up rooms with them. Sink battleships. Have lulz.
  • Telepathy and mindsight. Yummy. Now all you need to do is enjoy the crafting vestage.
(click to show/hide)


Mystic
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Cleric casting
  • You get a domain too. Okay it’s inferior to a spontaneous cleric.
(click to show/hide)

Spirit Shaman
Why it's So Powerful:
  • Having your own list is a drag.
  • The upside is the class is fairly flavorful with a few decent goodies along the way.
(click to show/hide)
         

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2013, 10:27:36 PM »
Classes in Tier 3

Factotum
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • Pretty much anything the classes below can do, you can too. Need a skill monkey? Need a strange spell? Heck go tell a warmage about your bypassing SR if you want to make him cry.
  • You are a ToB-ified version of a true chameleon class: you can emulate most of the juicy class abilities and do you stuff every encounter.
  • The board love for this class is well known, so I'll just give an example: you can turn undead better than all the other classes below, even when not using DMM (which RAW requires a feat to make the spells divine) because it functions off wisdom and it can even heal the way you always wanted it to.
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Wilder
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • With good power selection, you can be more than just an overloading bomb
  • You have to stretch better than a psion, so you have to be even more careful about picking only augmentable powers from the few you are given.
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Beguiler
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You wish are like a sorc but you know a few more spells and focus in illusion and enchantment which is overcome by true seeing and mind blank respectively. It's not a bad list but its very, very small.
  • Your class features feel like wizard feats without the choice or sorc ACFs, so you'll feel solid without overwhelming power. The capstone is okay, but look above for factotum.
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Warblade
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You are a fighter/barbarian with nice things. You have int synergy if you want, which is why everyone loves to gestalt warblade.
  • The weapon aptitude is the inverse of the weapon enhancement and does some unintuitive things. Stance mastery is a nice capstone if you can wait.
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Dread Necromancer
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You are supposed to be a "I control the dead guy" with some necromancy spells. And why you are that, you have heals, buffs, debuffs, and some utility available.
  • The casting or the rebuking or the familiar, or the necromancy abilities or the self buffs on their own aren't enough to write home about. But when combined, it makes for a well-rounded class
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Shugenja
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • It's supposed to be an elemental blaster, but it has spells that do more than that like SNA
  • It's a weaker version of sorcerer, but divine with staple spells rather than goodies.
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Swordsage
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You are supposed to be an "all of the maneuvers" class with some sneakiness thrown in. It pretty much works unless you purposely chose bad manuevers.
  • Your class features are decent, but nothing to stay single-classed over past 9. Only the psuedo identify is bad.
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Binder
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • Whatever you want to do, you can just change out your abilities the next day: first your a natural attack machine, then your a pouncer, then you're a debuffer, then....
  • None of your toys are particularly powerful, but it's hard to continuously bang your head against a wall.
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Ranger (Wildshape variant)
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You kick out the fighter part and become fully half a druid.
  • Sure, you can gain WS with an item, PrC or template, but this way still allows to to advance it with MoMF
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Ardent
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • Although it is normal to havemanifesting limited only by ML, ardent is more obvious at that under its "Dip right here" sign.
  • You are no psion and you can't nova like a wilder, but you could go fifteen levels deep and get out what you put in, even without substituting mantle powers
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Crusader
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • You are supposed to be a martial version of a barbarian-paladin. You can still kind of smite, tank, and avoid partial saves, but you can also load up on useful party, often party-benefiting maneuvers
  • Don't expect to be teh tankzors, because you won't be. Don't expect to be teh party bufferz because you won't be. You'll just hold your own and be useful without overshadowing everyone.
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Bard
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • It's supposed to be a singing party face, but you can also be a good divination specialist
  • The buffs from the singing can be pushed quite hard, and the spellcasting does have some gems in it.
  • Even with no 7th or above level spells, the casting requires an even casting progression fix to truly shine, so don't get your hopes up.
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Incarnate
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • It's job isn't well defined other than "be the full caster of incarnum", which you do pretty well. You have all the binds and the most essentia. The class features aren't bad.
  • With the most choices available to you, you can change out your binds and reallocate your essentia as you need, although you still have the normal feat vs magic item problems associated with incarnum.
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Psychic Warrior
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • It still has access to all the usual psionic goodies like linked power.
  • The 3/4 progression tax makes it more like a bard than a fighter, but that's to be expected for daring to have some BAB.
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Shadowcaster
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • A shadowcaster is supposed to be a shadow subschool based pseudocaster who gets better and better at these will save-allowing spells, but you end up with a bunch of cool buffs and utility spells.
  • You are basically a sorcerer who traded the best spell list in the game for a fairly limited, branching one that can cast as (Su) or (SLA) for your lower level spells.
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Spellthief (Trickster variant)
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • Gaining the bard list is totally worth the no SA progression, trapfinding and -2 skill points plus losing Appraise, Bluff, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Swim & Tumble.
  • It's supposed to just steal spells but now it actually has a decent CL which is very important for CL abuse with Master Spellthief.
  • Your garbage 4th level spells only list gets bumped up to a core list of 6th level spells. It's still begging for an equal spell progression but anything that moves your main shtick away from "I melee attack a caster" is a step up.
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Duskblade
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • As a bit more than a half caster using what is essentially spamming a weapon enhancement except including 4th and 5th level spells and on a full attack. So if you've ever wanted to charge up your laser sword, this class is for you
  • Except that you can do other things on accident, like buff yourself of allies. Still you're almost in tier 4 territory here, so don't get too excited about your casting.
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Psychic Rogue
Why it Can Do More Than its Job:
  • Those 5th level powers do more than just substitute for the skillmonkeying and DPS of a rogue
  • For instance, compression and psionic true seeing allow your "rogue" to do things it would normally have to beg a caster for
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2013, 10:28:24 PM »
    Classes in Tier 4

    Totemist
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You can make yourself into a scary natural attack machine. But you will still be a meleer.
    • Due to the way incarnum (aside from the totem bind) works, you are going to reduce your use of WBL by closing off slots or throw every feat you have trying to fix this.
    (click to show/hide)


    Jester
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • A straight downgrade to the bard in most respects, trading some class features for a worse spell list
    • Have fun with the silly part of bard cranked up to an 11. It will feel underwhelming when looking at normal bard PrCs, though.
    (click to show/hide)


    Barbarian
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You get mad and hit things. Don't expect to make it through an area of grease, though
    • You can kind of tank but in and out of core, if you build for it.
    • You are a shoe-horned version of the fighter with okay class features, so keep in mind you are not invincible.
    (click to show/hide)


    Savant
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You are a skillmonkey buffer that buffs skills. Yes, mostly useless skills. If your party is closeby. It can be useful if you are smart about it.
    • Your spell list is only a page long and your divine spells come very, very late. You do get FoM and Divine power, but only by the time sorcerers have 9th level spells...
    (click to show/hide)


    Adept
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Its an NPC mage so don't get your hopes up
    • But in a low OP game, its has just good enough spells to hang in there are fill a general 'weak caster' role
    • 0: Very good, 1: sleep, cure, detect x, protection from x, 2: buffs, x invis, scorching ray, 3: animate dead, 4: polymorph, 5: baleful polymorph, raise dead, heal, true seeing
    (click to show/hide)


    Marshal
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You are a charisma dip if there ever was one. Oh and if you want to eat the dead levels you can chose the auras you thought weren't worth getting up front.
    • The major auras are (per their bonus) worse than the minor ones and the advancements aren't worth the ECL. But boy is this class a strong dip.
    (click to show/hide)


    Ranger
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • It's basically a two thirds of half a druid and a third of a fighter.
    • Yes, you can track things but you have to ACF or PrC when the enemy just plane shifts or teleports.
    (click to show/hide)


    Rogue
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Pick one: DPS, skillmonkey, or UMD abuser.
    • You can try to do all of the above, but it will take far more optimization than you'd expect, and you'll still be begging for buffs from the casters
    (click to show/hide)


    Warlock
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You are a casterish rogue who does UMD even better. You bonus damage can be 250' away as a touch attack
    • Often knee-jerk nerfed by DMs used to 1/day Tier 5 classes, your bag of tricks is spammable but small and limited. Don't think that you can do any one of those tricks better than a properly built sorcerer unless your DM is unaware of you character or is trying to play to your strengths
    (click to show/hide)


    Fighter (Dungeon Crasher variant)
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Now you can break down doors like a barbarian, avoid traps kind of like one, and most importantly do tons of damage if you can smash enemies onto walls.
    • Despite trading two feats for three cool abilities, you are still a fighter.
    (click to show/hide)


    Dragonfire Adept
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • As another UMD user, you will find yourself getting into the bookworm role when not DPSing. Don't stretch too thin.
    • You are the warlock's little brother trading DPS for pseudo casting. Your invocations can do some of the same things and some are your own, but you'll want his toys more than he will want yours.
    (click to show/hide)


    Spellthief
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You are supposed to be able to somehow get close enough to a magical opponent that is supposed to be vulnerable to sneak attacks. Only then can you gain random and probably not useful spells. Aren't you glad you didn't just be a caster yourself so you could chose what you get?
    • This class can allow for some interesting spamming of SLAs, but you may have a hard time convincing a party member to play a warlock if your DM doesn't allow leadership.
    • When you're not gaining the buffs from your warlock buddy or ocassionally targeting weak monster SLAs, your 1st-4th Sorc/Wiz casting (without Conjuration,
      Enchanment, or Necromancy) can help. These schools aren't even banned schools, so you can't unban them via feats.
    (click to show/hide)


    Master
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Another skill-based class (surprise surprise), you have some options to make you a weak artificer, bard, party face or factotum depending on your path
    • Most notable is the highest tier class thats emulated. The class works well in low magic games by stretching mundane items into what is normally magic item territory.
    (click to show/hide)


    Warmage
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Concerning casting, you wish you were a wizard specializing in evocation, which sounds as bad as it is. You can spit out more spammy fireballs than a wizard, but your class features are nothing to write home about. Heck even your wizardwarmage feats are unoptimal every 5ish levels.
    • Rainbow warmages not withstanding, straight blasting without metamagic optimization is about as worth while as focusing on healing spells.
    (click to show/hide)


    Scout
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Assuming you can attack many times and not get him (which is no small feat for a mundane) the class does allow a decent amount of DPS. Again, you'll be forced to put in some optimization to get the class to work the way you'd expect.
    • The chassis and abilities are decent but feel underwhelming if you want to go to 20. You'll find the breakpoints are early and the coolest parts come far later than equivalent level spells.
    (click to show/hide)


    Dragon Shaman
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You can use your auras to buff your party along with your touch. Don't don't expect it to be the most optimal ways of accomplishing these goals.
    • Your breath weapon can be optimized, so feel free to look longingly at the DFA DPS section.
    (click to show/hide)


    Hexblade
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • Assuming you have creatures that fail will saves, you can lower those and other saves and be a semi gish
    • All but your main shtick can be recreated by other means and your casting is its own odd list, so don't think that you're a normal sorc PrC gish by any stretch of the imagination
    (click to show/hide)


    Sohei
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You are a solid off-dps, off-tank for a low optimization game. But you still have no means of overcoming all the usual problems with a normalish mundane class.
    • Just like the hexblade, you get half casting (from its own list) and mettle. Think of yourself as a monk upgrade rather than a barbarian with spells
    (click to show/hide)


    Nightstalker
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • With UMD and 3/4 casting, you still aren't a master of the dead. Enjoy the fluff, companions, and rebuking. It's all you'll get
    • There are some campaign-specific multiclassing restrictions, but no racial ones. You'll find ghost cohorts don't even out the step down from bard casting.
    (click to show/hide)


    Montebank
    Why it Can Only Do its Job:
    • You have some charisma synergy and SLAs because you're owned by nasty things (yay?). On the bright side, you can multipounce if you want to put in 10 levels. But whatever you do, don't take the capstone or you'll really be owned by nasty things
    • If you thought sudden strike sucked, wait till you read about the Mind-affecting or feignted only Deceptive strike. You basically fail at being rogue and debuffer in every way except UMD.
    • If the table is still believed, you oddly end up with some sudden strike in addition to deceptive strike (+1d6?), which proves that WotC does a worse job at Dragon Magazine material than Dragon magazine (see Gygax's Dragon 65 comments)
    (click to show/hide)
    [/list]

    Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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    Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
    « Reply #8 on: February 16, 2013, 10:28:55 PM »
      Classes in Tier 5

      Paladin
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You're supposed to off tank thanks to your healings and charge in on your mount for the smite. Too bad your MAD to do so, assuming you hit. Its better to be the mount.
      • The detect evil is worth it for nonBBEGs (who are undetectable). Not worth the aura of good bulls-eye
      • Lay on hands isn't effective healing, but its free. The real boost that level is the saves boost.
      • The aura is too situational with small range. It almost makes disease immunity look useful
      • You can pull significantly late Divine feat use and DMM shenanigans on your pansy spells. Feat tax or MAD.
      • Your default mount is a retarded animal companion. You can supermount it, but its not optimal to use the paladin class to even do that.
      • Your late SLAs are too situational and too sparse anyways. Wouldn't be the level if it were at will.
      (click to show/hide)


      Magewright
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Has 10 5th level spells if you have an Int of 30.
      • Spell mastery each time a new slot is up is enough for the gems like CoP, animate dead, and dispel magic
      • No support, tiny list, and no class features? I'd rather have one less spell level, a mount, and some class features on a decent chassis.
      (click to show/hide)


      Fighter
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Anyone can get feats. They are cheap. See my prereq handbook for the free feat diet.
      • Fighter only feats really aren't that cool, even without comparing to spells available at a similar level. Your better off whoring more general combat feats.
      (click to show/hide)


      Healer
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Clerics still heal better than you, without focusing on it.
      • You're supposed to heal with your spells right? Too bad you have a limited list rather than "all conjuration(healing) spells." If you didn't have revivify a psion would heal better than you.
      • Supplimentary out of combat healing isn't worth a level and you still have to blow metamagics to not get close for all your healing
      • As paladin, your late SLAs are less situational but too sparse. Wouldn't be the level if it were at will, but atleast level 20 doesn't have to pay the costs.
      • Your unicorn companion is a weak version of the Special Mount ability
      (click to show/hide)


      Divine Mind (with Web Enhancements)
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You can now spam astral contructs. Too bad its got nerfed so much
      • As before but you have a first level power. I would say choose wisely, but its even worse than the regular feat.
      • you can pull the divine feat tricks a paladin can and at the same level. Too bad you don't cast spells for DMM.
      (click to show/hide)


      Mlar
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You can make things. Major creation is nice.
      • Poisons anyone?
      (click to show/hide)


      Soulborn
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You can smite if you are MAD, but you are still a big target
      • These are very niche. Immunity to strength penalties is the best because evil does it better
      • You get your chakras late and you have a crappy list. Welcome to being a soulborn.
      • Sharing your immunity is cool but you can only do one at a time so its rarely useful.
      • Timeless body is later than the monks and suffers from the same problem.
      (click to show/hide)


      Eidolon
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Free multiclassing is cool if you don't build correctly to allow for dips but need feats
      • none of the ghost feats are worth it except in specific circumstances: fade for savage progression 1 or melee ghosts might want corrupting and enervating touch. Ghost Glide is suboptimal but flavorful
      (click to show/hide)


      Lurk
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You want Int-based manifesting but you only have 6th level powers.
      • You don't have a Psi War's great list. You get the left overs. Has few decent powers that are easily learned by other mainfesters.
      • You try to be a rogue but you have a SA bad progression. Your Augments suck and are unfinished.
      (click to show/hide)


      Monk
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Not sure what WotC thought the monk's role should be besides 'awesome'. I mean look at all those progressions with no dead levels! :rollseyes
      • The chasis is wrong for a meleer. You don't have full BAB, so don't expect to hit anything without severe optimization.
      • Your unarmed damage isn't great thanks to exotic weapons, but you can go king of smack if you severely optimize. Too bad you still won't hit
      • Dinky AC bonus for your MAD, naked self. Like the above, everyone can have this without the t5 ickiness thanks to a monks belt. It's like core was trying to invalidate the monk class.
      • Your speed is an enhancement bonus, so everyone and their mother can do better without wasting precious ECL. What are you going to do with it anyways? Note that spring attack is a trap.
      • Little bonuses here and there aren't class features. They are feats. You have paladin-like immunity to diseases, so now you can't become a lycanthrope. Awesome.
      • You can heal yourself some and slow fall. Its a good thing you spent levels on this rather than petty cash!
      • Spell Resistance that you can't turn off is cool. Nothing like missing that heal or buff!
      • Your mild maneuverability of improved evasion, 1/day dimension door, and level rounds/day etherealness are what casters got a long time ago, assuming they even care to blow the money on the ring. Usually, it isn't that important.
      • Poison immunity, and tongues come too late and don't get me started on a fort save ability that doesn't work on the cool types anyways.
      • Abusing aging penalties comes too late to be useful and being an outsider with sucky DR is not a capstone, no matter what WotC thinks.
      (click to show/hide)


      Samurai (with Imperious Command feat)
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Mass Staredown is mildly cool with Imperious Command.  Unfortunately, Zhentarium Fighter does it better (Swift Action, so you can still attack), and the Dread Pirate and Scarlet Corsair PrCs both provide far superior versions of this ability.
      • Samurai 10 with the Fearsome Armor enhancement (DoTU) and the Imperious Command feat can do the double intimidate 4 levels sooner than normal, and send foes cowering for 1 round first.  Of course, at that level a Zhentarim fighter with that armor can do a triple intimidate.
      (click to show/hide)


      Ninja
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Same problems as the monk on AC bonus. Doesn't even stack without optimization
      • Sudden strike is the retarded cousin of sneak attack. See the rogue entry and then try to imagine it sucking more.
      • Ki is so flavorful. Quick make it suck! Trapfinding has the same problems rogues face
      • The ghost abilities are pretty cool, I admit. Its the real thing that makes you a ninja. Abuse it before your niche fades.
      • Great leap doesn't worth with a medium load and your spider climb isn't even really a spider climb.
      • The Ghost Mind ability can be bypassed so easily, its worthless
      • Ghost sight is only 15 levels too late compared to a warlock. That's not much, is it?
      (click to show/hide)


      Battledancer
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • If the ninja is the inbred monk rogue lovechild, the battledancer is the severly inbred monk plus monk then given away to the circus child.
      • Move action Su when threatened give +4 vs fear for 5+cha. Like that helps?
      • Congratulations, your speed boost isn't enhancement. Too bad you get less than the monk so it evens out.
      • No tumble restrictions. Okay that's good anti-melee stuff. And for the teleporting casters?
      • Dancer's Strikes involve blowing a standard action to gain it for only 5+cha rounds. Raise your hand if you like action penalties to be effective in combat! Don't get excited about that (any) either; you merely pick one unchanging type.
      • You can water walk three levels after the cleric has been doing it.
      • Pounce is cool. Too bad the barbarians did it ten levels ago.
      • An AC debuff is okay but this ability only matters if your allies are stupid enough to proc a lot of AoOs. Otherwise +4str or +4dex is better.
      • A fly speed is good. It competes well with those 9th level spells, huh?
      • +2d6 and crit confirm is again not a capstone.
      (click to show/hide)


      Knight
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • Blow a swift action to hit harder assuming the opponent meets the criteria of being low CR. Snore.
      • Some people get hard ons reading about forcing agro. Its a will save. You might as well charm them, but atleast this ability isn't mind-affecting.
      • Reroll on fear assuming you are MAD. Meh
      • More must be low CR stuff. Its a dinky fear effect
      • Slipper mind, basically
      • Ex furiousity is cool but nothing new for the past however many levels.
      (click to show/hide)


      Swashbuckler
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • So you want to be a dex-based fighter, but you have no precision damage for DPS. Int to damage isn't enough.
      • The MAD is strong with this one
      • This class is jealous of the rogue. The best feature is acrobatic charge, *fog horn*
      (click to show/hide)


      Mariner
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • less damage that skirmish and you can't iterative it?
      • Worse feat list than fighter and fewer of them?
      • odd bonuses you'll never use?
      (click to show/hide)


      Expert
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • You are the skill monkey version of a commoner
      • Choosing any 10 skills goes a long way if you chose the right ones. Craft? No. Iajitsu Focus? Yes please.
      (click to show/hide)


      Soulknife
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • The base stats on a mind blade aren't great so don't pretend to have an awesome weapon. You don't.
      • Even at range (crap 30') don't pretend to do your extra damage since everyone loves being immune to mind-affecting
      • The quick draw would be good, except you can only throw the mind blade twice in a round until level 17
      • Non crappy shapes still require EWP and are at -1 enhancement bonus. Awesome
      • Enhancing your crappy weapon would be cool if you couldn't just by the same thing...
      • The feats are fine. Better than the whirlwind silliness anyways.
      • Int damage is cool, but its too little too late. First level casters can do that.
      (click to show/hide)


      Noble
      Why it Doesn't Do its Job Well:
      • So no real bardic music?
      • The book is worried about instant gather info / favor checks that are used chiefly to advance the plot being abused? It even specifically invokes the banhammer for specifics. So ... its useless?
      (click to show/hide)

      Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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      Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
      « Reply #9 on: February 16, 2013, 10:29:17 PM »
      Classes in Tier 6

      Divine Mind (before Mind's Eye updates):
      Why its Defunct:
      • worst 'progression' and 'list' in the game.
      • Epic spells 10 levels too late is laughable, like crossing the finish line years after the race was over.
      • The auras are too small too early. Party formations make you a lovely AoE target.
      • Due to your sorry progression, you can't PrC to a 3.5 class without losing 6th level powers
      (click to show/hide)



      Truenamer
      Why its Defunct:
      • WotC just discovered the best flavor in the game. "Quick let's screw up the mechanics!" They said to one another.
      • The main problems are with the mechanics of truenaming. There is no reason for the Law of Sequence to exist. It's like demanding Sorcerers may not spam grease (You can't cast that! The grease from last turn is still slippery!)
      • The Truenaming check for items and creatures should NOT be x2 CL or CR. Where you succeeded at level 1, you will fail at level 20.
      • Can do some fairly neat things, but its simply not worth the effort. If you need to abuse polymorph or an item familiar to function, well, that's a problem.
      • You have some awesomely fluffed PrC options. Too bad you will still suck when you take them.
      (click to show/hide)



      Samurai (without Imperious Command)
      Why its Defunct:
      • The best part is not being this class - falling and being a Ronin is this class's best schtick.
      • Code of Conducts are bad. Except this class is so bad, breaking the CoC is actually good.
      • Decent class skills - except you probably are dumping int to intimidate or smite and damage with your sucky weapons.
      • Class features that act as feats are not psy-ref'able. Even then your improved and greater TWF (for sucky weapons) comes too late anyways.
      PrC's:
      Exotic Weapon Master: 1 level gets the Exotic Blow ability, which is very solid PA damage.
      Ronin: Mentioned earlier.
      Kensai: The Samurai is one of the few classes with all Kensai class skills, and the oath of service meshes well with the samurai's vow.  It's not THAT exciting, but it is a very flavorful class, and choosing your own weapon enhancements is a lot of fun.
      Knight Protector: This will make you more of a tank, though none of the features are awesome (as a sidenote, you gain Tower Shield proficiency without knowing any other shields!)
      Knight of the Iron Glacier (FB): C'mon.  It already requires EWP: Bastard Sword, and you KNOW you want to ride a giant rhinoceros!
      Bloodstorm Blade (TOB): First, it requires MCing into warblade, which is better than samurai.  Second, it will let you change your EWP: Bastard Sword to any other weapon - and the same should apply to your other subpar feats that specify only a bastard sword and short sword.  Besides, throwing weapons as a full melee attack is just awesome. -Akalsaris
      (click to show/hide)



      Warrior:
      Why its Defunct:
      • Its just a chasis with full BAB
      • Allows you to fake continuing as an ex-paladin (but not with the awesome that are Blackgaurds)



      Aristocrat:
      Why its Defunct:
      • The highest starting gold (4d8x10 gp) doesn't matter if you start higher than level 1
      • Diplomancy in an NPC class-only campaign is like being the prettiest patient at the full-body, severe burn ward



      Commoner:
      Why its Defunct:
      • It is supposed to be; peasants aren't supposed to be awesome.
      • Too bad for WotC we take the silly commoner only Chicken-infested flaw seriously. Be purple and name yourself Gonzo.
      • Survivor at level 2? *Shrug*

      Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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      Re: Base Class Reference & Tier Information
      « Reply #10 on: February 16, 2013, 10:30:35 PM »
      Class Dip Length

      What makes a dip? A dip is taking a few levels in another class in order to grab a bonus feat or other useful class feature before continuing to your main classes. If the reason to take a further level is to advance the classes main progression in an even manner, logically one would progress up to 20 in a class and not dip. So even or normal main progressions are almost ignored below.

      What stops a dip? Taking a few levels stops being a dip when a character can't get anything out of each level. Just 'waiting' for a class feature further down the line means you're not dipping anymore. This is what single-classed characters do, especially in wait of the best abilities from levels 17-20.

      Aberrant Paragon: 1 if cleric, sorc, favored soul, psychic warrior, wilder, or warlock
      Aristocrat: 0, or 1 if playing ECL1 campaign where starting gold REALLY matters
      Adept: 0. You can get spells in other ways, and you don't wait to wait for a familiar.
      Archivist: 1. Feat + spells + knowledge-based abilitiy
      Ardent: 1 or 2. You can still pick up a DCFS-able feat at level two, and some more sharable pp.
      Artificer: 1 to 4,5,7, or 9. Yeah it's a powerful class, so much so that DMs will likely ban metamagic spell trigger...
      Barbarian: 1 or 2. You know you want pounce, and maybe a feat.
      Bard: 0 or 1. Can get an animal companion and is extremely flexible with its 3/4 casting stat.
      Battledancer: 1
      Beguiler: 0
      Binder: 1. Be sure to look at the anima mage class...
      Cleric: 1. Even without being cloistered, its a good enough dip to have its own handbook.
      Commoner: 0 or 1 if you want infinite chickens
      Crusader: 0 or 1. Only bother if you need martial spirit or your DM doesn't ban white raven tactics for some reason.
      Dragonfire Adept: 1, 2, or 3. If you plan on using the BW or the nice invocations, it can be worth the ECL for certain builds.
      Death Master: 0 or 1. Only if you need another rebuke pool because the psuedo familiar is meh
      Divine Mind: 1. You can build it to be a solid dip.
      Dragon Shaman: 0 - 2. The aura -> 50% hp is one of those love it or hate it things and the class does get skill focus later.
      Dread Necromancer: 0 or 1. If your party is tomb-tainted how about 100% hp regen instead? Also has a rebuke pool.
      Drow Paragon: 1. Don't take the caster it afterward. Qualify for it without the LA+2 too.
      Druid: 1 - 4,5, or 9. Again another Tier one class that has lots of build potential even if you don't want to progress its 3 main shticks.
      Duskblade: 0 or 2. The first level isn't quite up to par but it is stomachable.
      Dwarf Paragon: 0. 3 levels for +2con is a trap
      Eidolon: 2
      Eidoloncer: 1
      Elf Paragon: 0. Dead levels up front hurt.
      Erudite: 1. Everything up front, even more-so than the psion, which you expected as a Tier 1.
      Expert: 0. You can factotum instead for the skills.
      Factotoum: 1 or 3. It's one of the most notable x to y entries, although the 2nd level is only stomachable when 1st level spells are the norm.
      Favored Soul: 0
      Fighter: 2 or 4 with optimization, non-dungeoncrasher variant of course.
      Gnome Paragon: 0. Don't eat the casting hit
      Half-Dragon Paragon: 0. The heardest to qualify for and the worse on top of being a massive trap before you read that abilities
      Half-Elf Paragon: 0 - 3. Yes you heard that right. If you can stomach the casting hit, there are ways to make the class work, but odds are its a trap.
      Half-Orc Paragon: 0. It's a tempting trap, but you don't have to be a half-orc and you can rage with an item while lawful.
      Halfling Paragon: 0. All meh. You're seeing the pattern, aren't you?
      Healer: 0 or 2 if you are cha-focused.
      Hexblade: 0 - 5. Hexing allows a will save, it's not a full divine grace, but the mettle is great. Some swear by Dark Companion.
      Human Paragon: 0 - 3. The easiest of the paragons to use, although almost always not optimal.
      Incarnate: 0
      Jester: 0 - 2. The first level is very weak.
      Knight: 0 or 2 with optimization. 3 if maneuvers are banned.
      Kobold Paragon: 0
      Lurk: 0. Requires my lurk fix for it to be worth 1 level, 2 if already trying for high SA.
      Mariner: 1. Get the feat and get out.
      Marshall: 1. The movement actions aren't worth the ECL, and the major auras blow.
      Master: 0
      Mlar: 0. Falls behind sorc progression after level 4.
      Monk: 2 - 7 with optimization.
      Montebank: 0
      Mystic: 1 only if you need a domain, the best of which is just a rebuke pool.
      Ninja: 0 or 1 with optimization. 2 in an ECL2 campaign (whoever plays that?)
      Noble: 0
      Orc Paragon: 0. You can fix light sensitivity the way Ridick did
      Paladin: 2, or 3 with optimization. Up to 5 for sub-par supermounts.
      Psion: 1
      Psychic Rogue: 0 - 2 depending on if you need SA and evasion.
      Psychic Warrior: 2
      Ranger: 2 - 8 with optimization, 10 if you using even spell progressions with the mystic ranger capstone
      Rogue: 2 - 4 with optimization
      Samurai: 0 - 3 if you have high charisma and like sub-par weapons
      Savant: 0. See factotum instead
      Scout: 0 - 5 if you need the skirmish or are going swift hunter.
      Sha'ir: 0. The psuedo-familiar isn't worth it
      Shadowcaster: 0 - 2 if you chose the right spells
      Shugenja: 0
      Sohei: 1
      Sorcerer: 1. Can be a surprisingly good dip with optimization
      Soulborn: 0 really, but 3 with optimization
      Soulknife: 1. Tasty
      Spelltheif: 0 or 1 if you need the SA
      Spirit Shaman: 0. The psuedo familiar isn't great
      Swashbuckler: 1 - 4 with my skill fixes and optimization
      Swordsage: 1
      Tiefling Paragon: 0 as usual
      Totemist: 0 - 2. Okay the first level is just bad.
      Truenamer: 0 - 2 with fixes and optimization
      Warblade: 1
      Warlock: 2
      Warmage: 0 since the int addition is only to its spells.
      Warrior: 0
      Wilder: 0 or 1 with fixes.
      Wizard: 1 - 5 with optimization
      Wu Jen: 1

      Note: all fixes are available in my sig.