Non-Epic Mechanics Changes & Spell Rewrites

[sirpercival]

Much more will be added to this, I'm sure.



Spell rewrites:

I've made a list of the problematic types of spells which need to be altered, and the changes I'll be implementing to fix them, with the goal of un-breaking high-level spellcasting:

• Action generation & interruption - Spells which generate actions, like Time Stop & Celerity, will be limited in what types of activities you can use those actions for.  Spells which interrupt other actions (like Wings of Cover) will be specific in the type of effects they interrupt (no one has a problem with Feather Fall, for example).
  
• Polymorph spells - Use the PF Metamorphosis chain instead, since it allows for modularity, power, and keeps the flavor of the spells without being uber haxxorz.
  
• Planar Ally/Binding/Calling - To call a creature, you must know its specific name (divination, knowledge, etc); no calling generic creatures.  Once you've called it, there's no compulsion of service -- you have to negotiate the terms, and the creature will always require you to complete a specific task, of the same magnitude of whatever it is you're asking it to do.
  
• Teleportation - There will be distance limitations, which can be bypassed with waypoints.  In addition, we'll be using this Plane Shift variant.
  
• Spells which break WBL - Magic items will be decoupled from mundane wealth, so no one really cares about these.
  
• "Choose your spell" effects - Wish, Limited Wish, Miracle, Reality Revision, Bend Reality are all removed.  There's really no way not to break the game by using these; they're plot devices, not spells.
  
• Shadowcrafting - As a subset of the above, this is no longer "choose your spell".  Instead, it has a modular set of possible effects.
  
• Divinations - Foretelling divinations grant you a series of omens (like tarot cards or zodiac signs) which grant you bonuses when the conditions of the omens are met.  Higher level = more omens.  Scrying requires stronger connections, and has distance limitations; you can't scry off-plane.  Scrying spell level determines the connection strength required and the distance limit.
  

Psionics are being fixed as well:

• Linked Power does not exist; in fact, most of Complete Psionic is out, as either crappy or broken.
  
• Action economy breakers - Just like for spells, these are limited to specific types of activities that the actions can be used for.
  
• Recharge - You can't regain pp that you've spent.
  

List of (and eventually links for) spells to rewrite:

• Alter Self, Polymorph, PAO, Shapechange.
• Celerity et al, Time Stop, Wings of Cover, Synchronicity, Hustle
• Teleport, Greater Teleport, Plane Shift, Greater Plane Shift
• Planar Ally et al, Planar Binding et al, Gate, and other Conjuration (Calling) spells
• Divination, Commune, Contact Other Plane, Augury, Omen of Peril, and Divination (Scrying) spells.

[Prime32]

For planar binding, what if you have to accept a "devil's mark" (or a demon's mark/angel's mark/whatever) to maintain control over the creature, which is hard to hide? Maybe even influence, a la binding a vestige.
Or the contract is continually enforced by a magic item created as part of the spell, which you must wear (or for higher-level spells, which must exist). Maybe other people can use the item to hijack the creature, as long as they meet a minimum character level. There could also be, say, a purchasable/artefact magic ring which can be used as a focus for multiple binding spells at once. Or some ability which lets you store the bound creature inside the item when you don't need it, genie-style (possibly including release conditions so it can serve as a guard); this also opens up a potential PrC that specialises in binding Fiends of Possession to empower their gear.
If you lose control of a creature it becomes hostile to you, unless you have some feat or class feature which gives you authority over them.

[Garryl]

I think you're combining two distinct concepts there. Short term binding (Craig's List for Outsiders) and long term binding (itty bitty living space). It might be better to split the two.

[sirpercival]

I like the "task" mechanic better than having some method of control over the creature.  Makes it much closer to the traditional bargaining with demons, etc., and more difficult to cheese through optimization.  However, you could adjudicate the task in terms of a mark of some kind, which could have effects like Geas/Quest or Mark of Justice.

[phaedrusxy]

I like the "task" mechanic better than having some method of control over the creature.  Makes it much closer to the traditional bargaining with demons, etc., and more difficult to cheese through optimization.  However, you could adjudicate the task in terms of a mark of some kind, which could have effects like Geas/Quest or Mark of Justice.

The thing is, then being able to subvert the "mark" somehow (and everyone will try to) will probably allow you to abuse those spells, much like you can now via various means (Charm/Dominate/kill and reanimate/etc).

So I'd actually avoid tying it to other mechanics, which might be able to be subverted, and just put in the text "if you don't fulfill your end of the bargain, neither does the called creature", or something like that. And make sure it is air-tight.

Even then, people will likely try to just bully whatever they've summoned into doing what they want for essentially nothing. You'll have to put in things to prevent that.

[Prime32]

I like the "task" mechanic better than having some method of control over the creature.

I wasn't saying to control it. Just that the deal becomes void if you don't keep the physical contract safe. And that the contract is generally something like a ring rather than a piece of paper. Taking up a body slot is an additional cost.

[oslecamo]

Whatever mechanic you decide for calling/binding, remember to put in some way to prevent it of becoming a glorified source of free minions for a necromancer/mindcontrolmancer. Contracts are irrelevant if you simply kill and reanimate the creature or mindrape them, and that's trivial when you know where and when they'll show up.

[sirpercival]

Whatever mechanic you decide for calling/binding, remember to put in some way to prevent it of becoming a glorified source of free minions for a necromancer/mindcontrolmancer. Contracts are irrelevant if you simply kill and reanimate the creature or mindrape them, and that's trivial when you know where and when they'll show up.

If the creature dies, it goes away just like a summon.  Not sure about the mind controlness, any ideas?

[Prime32]

In stories such beings are generally hard to control directly - either they're way stronger than you are, an aspect of something that is, they don't have minds in the mortal sense, or making mental contact with them could destroy a mortal mind.

One option would be that the "protection from mental control" aspect of a magic circle against evil also functions when the spell is turned inwards. Or that beings of pure evil don't act any differently while charmed because they have no concept of friendship. Or that part of the Pact Primeval (or something) has a clause that mind control voids contracts.

What do you think of making planar binding a PrC with Diplomacy, a summoning spell and magic circle against evil as prereqs? That way you give up some of your casting ability to use it. You could also limit the creatures that can be bound to a specific list, with a minimum level and requirement for each creature - e.g. maybe only devils can be bound, as a remnant of their pact to defend places in need from demons. Tying everything to devils would also make it easier to enforce penalties against abuse, given that everything you bind is filing reports on what you asked it to do.

As another thought, maybe you can't regain the spell slot used to cast planar binding until the contract is complete.

[sirpercival]

So, PB/PA/etc. will definitely have specific lists of available creatures.  One problem is, if you Mindrape the creature who cares about the contract?  Voiding it doesn't help.

Maybe part of the calling process makes the creature immune to mind control -- or maybe even immune to influence at all, besides what's built into the calling itself.  You can't pull the Geas trick on them with the glass of water, because you can't cast on the called creature, you have to bargain with it as-is.

[Garryl]

So, PB/PA/etc. will definitely have specific lists of available creatures.  One problem is, if you Mindrape the creature who cares about the contract?  Voiding it doesn't help.

Maybe part of the calling process makes the creature immune to mind control -- or maybe even immune to influence at all, besides what's built into the calling itself.  You can't pull the Geas trick on them with the glass of water, because you can't cast on the called creature, you have to bargain with it as-is.

Now planar binders will work in pairs. One to summon, one to do the mind control. Unless you meant that planar binding has a built in Mind Blank effect, in which case you've just lowered the level of Mind Blank from 8th to 6th.

What you really need is a way for the bargaining to conclude before the risk of mind control even comes up, followed by penalties and enforcement methods to ensure that the bargain is upheld.

[sirpercival]

Penalties and enforcement are the easy part.  How do you prevent having another dude ready an action to mindrape as soon as the creature appears?

[Garryl]

The same way you prevent the caster from readying an action to mindrape as soon as the creature appears. If you start conspiring to attack your called creatures, the contract says that shit happens to you.

[sirpercival]

The same way you prevent the caster from readying an action to mindrape as soon as the creature appears. If you start conspiring to attack your called creatures, the contract says that shit happens to you.

Well, it depends on how you're defining "contract".  If the creature can't make a contract with you because you mindrape it, then who cares?

How about this: when you cast the spell, until the contract has been agreed upon, (a) you can't cast any more spells on the creature, (b) no one else can see or interact with it, and (c) the creature can't leave or make actions through the circle.

[Garryl]

The same way you prevent the caster from readying an action to mindrape as soon as the creature appears. If you start conspiring to attack your called creatures, the contract says that shit happens to you.

Well, it depends on how you're defining "contract".  If the creature can't make a contract with you because you mindrape it, then who cares?

How about this: when you cast the spell, until the contract has been agreed upon, (a) you can't cast any more spells on the creature, (b) no one else can see or interact with it, and (c) the creature can't leave or make actions through the circle.

That's exactly what I said before. Well, minus the specific implementation.

What you really need is a way for the bargaining to conclude before the risk of mind control even comes up, followed by penalties and enforcement methods to ensure that the bargain is upheld.

[sirpercival]

Oh I see.  OK, yes then I agree with you.

[Prime32]

So, PB/PA/etc. will definitely have specific lists of available creatures.  One problem is, if you Mindrape the creature who cares about the contract?  Voiding it doesn't help.

Which is where the Pact Primeval^FC2 comes in. There's already a clause that devils can't magically compel people into selling their souls.
You could also argue that mindrape has limits on how far it can warp an aligned outsider's personality, since they are literally made out of their alignment.

[phaedrusxy]

You could also argue that mindrape has limits on how far it can warp an aligned outsider's personality, since they are literally made out of their alignment.

Hmm... this gives me an interesting idea on how to RP outsiders now... Basically, it would make sense to RP them like the "Agents" in the Matrix: technically "sentient" and definitely "intelligent", but not really "free-willed" (except in some extraordinary cases where they break free of their "programming" somehow). They would be limited in their range of responses, and appear much alike emotionally and intellectually in many ways, as each type is from the same "mold".

[Prime32]

You could even have something like "whenever an aligned outsider would have its mind altered, it takes damage/is dazed instead". Outsiders have Body and Soul as one unit; why not Mind as well?

[sirpercival]

Hm... that's an interesting idea.  So it's essentially immunity to mind-affecting, but you take damage (has to be damage, not daze because it's easier to be immune) instead.  Hm.