Fun Finds v7.0 - Now with +15% more reposts!

[Garryl]

Setting Sun Strike is a relatively unimpressive feat. It lets you apply Stunning Fist to your Setting Sun strikes with unarmed strikes. For the most part, that doesn't mean much. You can do that anyways with Stunning Fist for the non-throw strikes, so it's only giving you the feat's secondary benefit of +1 to the save DC of the stun and maneuver. However, the entire strike is a stunning attack, and Stunning Fist forces a save vs. stun to anyone damaged by a stunning attack. There are three Setting Sun strikes that deal damage to multiple creatures.
- At 4th level, Comet Throw damages the creature you throw, and if you throw them into a space occupied by another creature, damages that creature as well.
- At 6th level, Ballista Throw damages the creature you throw and all creatures in the 60-foot line you throw them through.
- At 9th level, Tornado Throw lets you double move and throw a creature with every 10 feet of movement.

It's nothing amazing, but having access to an AoE stun (on top of these maneuvers' normal effects) would be fun for an unarmed Swordsage.

[Nunkuruji]

While it's likely difficult to ever be able to use the class...

There are two aspects of Maho-Tsukai that I've long overlooked and originally misinterpreted in my mind, a recent revisit had me realize...

1. It actually has the Wizard and not the Sorcerer progression for spell level known. This might be interesting for Ultimate Magus on the spontaneous side.

2. Conversion allows one to dip into about as many spellcasting classes as one desires, and then upon Conversion the spellcasting list remains available for spells known. Similar usefulness of Generic Spellcaster for particular PrCs such as War Weaver.

3. Conversion converts the level of spellcasting, and is not a replacement of the spellcasting class. By doubling up on spellcasting levels with Mystic Theurge, early entry, nets 9th level spells at 11th level.

[Kremlin K.O.A.]

*blink*
Would you kindly stat that out?
I am not fully seeing it.

[nijineko]

Oh, that was messed up of them. At first the language made it seem like they only could keep their previously learned spells as a spontaneous caster, but then they go and say they can learn spells from their previous arcane lists.

Is it just me, or does the maho-tsukai serve as a decent template for Dark Sun magic? Obviously would have to replace the blood component with life-force / defiling, but still, it seems to be a nice framework of rules to start from....

[Ryshin]

Scampering maw is a psionic aberration monster introduced in the manual hyperconscious p82, it has as an extraordinary special attack SCHISM, now metemorphosis let you transform into aberration and use extraordinary special attacks, so basically at lv7 your egoist psion (or at lv9 any other non egoist or telepath psion) will have free schism. Enjoy.

[Stratovarius]

Scampering maw is a psionic aberration monster introduced in the manual hyperconscious p82, it has as an extraordinary special attack SCHISM, now metemorphosis let you transform into aberration and use extraordinary special attacks, so basically at lv7 your egoist psion (or at lv9 any other non egoist or telepath psion) will have free schism. Enjoy.

Just going to point out this belongs in the second party thread, not this one.

[Nunkuruji]

Here's the stat out for the Maho-Tsukai

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cDrc1rbZSr-3aNhiU1f1Jiy96kPRMcu3G042lHHrhog/edit?usp=sharing

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As for Dark Sun, I'm actually currently running the modules from athas.org and converting City by the Silt Sea squeezed in.

Blood -> Life-Force/Defiling in the context of Dark Sun is much closer to the Epic Dragon Magic (Su) feature of the Athasian Dragon - offsetting gold/xp costs.

That said, they don't really conflict.
Environment/Defiling is a modifier on the arcane caster level
Tainted Spellcasting governs DC

I think the way to handle it is make "Defiler Taint" = Taint Score, where every time you Defile or use Blood Magic, it is considered Tainted Spellcasting parameters, and you trigger the Fort Save vs. increasing Taint Score.
Probably have Defiler/Raze feats permanently increase Taint Score as well.

Whether you want to use HoH or UA/OA rules is mostly consequential to the practical upper limit on DCs.

Might have been a better way to entice players into arcane spellcasting, instead I've got a pile of psionics users among my core players, and an arcane heirophant preserver who shows up every once and awhile.

[nijineko]

Might have been a better way to entice players into arcane spellcasting, instead I've got a pile of psionics users among my core players, and an arcane heirophant preserver who shows up every once and awhile.

Must be nice. I can rarely find anyone who will allow psionics other than me around here.

[Nunkuruji]

Might have been a better way to entice players into arcane spellcasting, instead I've got a pile of psionics users among my core players, and an arcane heirophant preserver who shows up every once and awhile.

Must be nice. I can rarely find anyone who will allow psionics other than me around here.

I'm pretty liberal in terms of what I'll allow, as long as they're not trying to derail the campaign (they don't), and their tactics don't take up (or cause) too much time (sometimes this is a problem). I think they're executing their turns a little quicker than previous experience with classic spellcasters, PP is easier book keeping, and there's less decision paralysis on Ardent/Wilder with their limited powers known.

That said, I try to stick to the peculiarities of the campaign setting, so in this case they're also dealing with pretty thin WBL and lack of metropolis level of magic mart. Items are often also more fragile, so they get blown up easier  . In addition, as the modules are written, the encounter level ranges are very wide, so running and surviving is sometimes really the best option. Their meta knowledge of the campaign and monster material is also thinner, so it's also been easier to keep them on their toes without bending rules.

[nijineko]

Might have been a better way to entice players into arcane spellcasting, instead I've got a pile of psionics users among my core players, and an arcane heirophant preserver who shows up every once and awhile.

Must be nice. I can rarely find anyone who will allow psionics other than me around here.

I'm pretty liberal in terms of what I'll allow, as long as they're not trying to derail the campaign (they don't), and their tactics don't take up (or cause) too much time (sometimes this is a problem). I think they're executing their turns a little quicker than previous experience with classic spellcasters, PP is easier book keeping, and there's less decision paralysis on Ardent/Wilder with their limited powers known.

That said, I try to stick to the peculiarities of the campaign setting, so in this case they're also dealing with pretty thin WBL and lack of metropolis level of magic mart. Items are often also more fragile, so they get blown up easier  . In addition, as the modules are written, the encounter level ranges are very wide, so running and surviving is sometimes really the best option. Their meta knowledge of the campaign and monster material is also thinner, so it's also been easier to keep them on their toes without bending rules.

Sounds like it might stick around for a bit!

My one group is always yelling at me for being behind the power curve. I get these wild ideas in my head that D&D doesn't support, so I minmax the crap out of the rules to get my character concept built... and wind up about 5-10 level in power BEHIND the rest of the group because I had to use such an odd and complicated combination of things to make the character concept actually happen... lol.

[Nanashi]

A strong, healthy slave costs between 50 and 100 gold pieces in lands where slavery is common.

I think this is the only general slave price given in WotC 3E material. Others I can recall are from licensed stuff (I recall a Dragonlance book had pricing guidelines), or for a single buyer (that one source that's based on HD and mostly used as an exploit to let you tell how many HD something has with the Appraise skill).

[awaken_D_M_golem]

While it's likely difficult to ever be able to use the class...
There are two aspects of Maho-Tsukai that I've long overlooked and originally misinterpreted in my mind, a recent revisit had me realize...
1. It actually has the Wizard and not the Sorcerer progression for spell level known. This might be interesting for Ultimate Magus on the spontaneous side.
2. Conversion allows one to dip into about as many spellcasting classes as one desires, and then upon Conversion the spellcasting list remains available for spells known. Similar usefulness of Generic Spellcaster for particular PrCs such as War Weaver.
3. Conversion converts the level of spellcasting, and is not a replacement of the spellcasting class. By doubling up on spellcasting levels with Mystic Theurge, early entry, nets 9th level spells at 11th level.

Sweeeeeet.
googles
hmm ... I could see a singular class be counted, but can't see that as the Only possible answer.
Big thread decent arguments, similar direction :
https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?553798-Maho-Tsukai-Madness

Confirmed.    to nunku.

^{< note : that's a clap , not the clap , to nunku >}

So what does HoH Taint do different than OA Taint ??

[Kremlin K.O.A.]

Here's the stat out for the Maho-Tsukai

*Big bow of respect*

[Nunkuruji]

I've got one player who makes horribly complicated builds like that, but has the forethought to make sure to hit certain capabilities at the right times.

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Heh, so at least Maho-Tsukai has been noticed before.

OA/UA/SRD taint applies a penalty to wisdom score, 1/2 of taint. Spellcasting DC becomes 10 + spell-level + taint. So DC can increase much faster than the normal rate of ability score modifier.
However, this puts you at risk of death by allip, wis poison/etc., and failed wis saves. The classes themselves have bad will saves.
Tainted Spellcasting risks increasing taint score each cast.
ex. 17 Wis, 14 Taint: 10 Wis effective:  10 + spell-level + 14

HoH splits taint up into Corruption and Depravity, and uses at table that sets your taint limits based on the respect con & wis scores.
The same risk applies in terms of death by ability damage, if you get pushed too far on the table.
Tainted Spellcasting is safer since there is more headroom for increasing depravity through casting spells.
p.66 has the OA adaptation
Bonus Spells and Spell Level are determined by Depravity.
Spell DC is determined by Corruption 10 + spell-level + 1/2 corruption.
Because of the way the table scales, you effectively become a Con based caster, acquire severe corruption, and fire off DCs twice that of standard spellcasters.
ex. 17 Con with 30 Corruption: 10 + spell-level + 15

The dirty trick interpretation is that from p.62 an undead player could acquire infinite corruption with no drawback, and thus an infinite DC.

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Took me some thought on slave prices for Dark Sun. I figured 1 year of hireling time was about right, and that's about in line with the FRCS statement. It is one of the players themes as he is a Thrallherd. He wasn't too excited when I mentioned survival upkeep after getting some price quotes, definitely more excited about disposable believers  .

[Nanashi]

Amulet of Warmth from Races of the Dragon flat stops high/low temp from being an issue. Is there any other way to do that? Endure Elements has a cap.

[Nunkuruji]

Here's the stat out for the Maho-Tsukai

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cDrc1rbZSr-3aNhiU1f1Jiy96kPRMcu3G042lHHrhog/edit?usp=sharing

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As for Dark Sun...

Serendipitous to be discussing both topics at the same time, as it occurred to me a fairly legit & elegant build could be realized with the aforementioned Maho-Tsukai, Ultimate Magus and... Dark Sun's Shadow Templar.

Since Maho-Tsukai has Conversion, with Ultimate Magus there are a potential total of 27 spell levels that can be carved largely however one cares to, and the lowest/highest is of little concern.

Shadow Templar can choose to provide double 9's and/or fill out a bunch of spell slots for Augmented Casting. The required level of Templar doesn't even go to waste due to Conversion.

I updated some skeleton tables in that sheet.

[nijineko]

I've got one player who makes horribly complicated builds like that, but has the forethought to make sure to hit certain capabilities at the right times.

If we start off high enough level, it's not so bad and I can usually keep up, but I'm often still behind a bit.

When my character concept includes a potential power level boost type exploit, like my ghost character did, then I can keep up with the rest of my group.

[Arz]

Breath weapon of young green dragon. A pseudo-magical location (EH 102)

Demon glass (EH 112) - Sorting/nightmare spell focus 1200gp. Or another pseudo-magical location that makes action points into d10.

Demon glass oracle makes me think of how many die raises I can get on an action point. With a combination of 1&2 step raises theoretically might see something like d20+(d20)+(d100) per roll if you spend 2ap. Especially fun when you roll multiple & keep highest.

[Nanashi]

From Tome and Blood

Secret Component Compartment/Pocket: This is a secret compartment or hidden pocket large enough to hold the components for one spell. A pocket is added to a garment, while a compartment is built into a tool, weapon, or other item. The compartment or pocket must be added when the item is first made. Finding a secret pocket or compartment (if you don’t already know where it is) requires a successful Search check (DC 20).

What's the physically largest thing (instead of variable things like any piece of equipment that was used by a xth level fighter) that's explicitly listed as a spell component?

[TC X0 Lt 0X]

From Tome and Blood

Secret Component Compartment/Pocket: This is a secret compartment or hidden pocket large enough to hold the components for one spell. A pocket is added to a garment, while a compartment is built into a tool, weapon, or other item. The compartment or pocket must be added when the item is first made. Finding a secret pocket or compartment (if you don’t already know where it is) requires a successful Search check (DC 20).

What's the physically largest thing (instead of variable things like any piece of equipment that was used by a xth level fighter) that's explicitly listed as a spell component?

So we have Apocalypse from the Sky, which uses any Artifact as a material component. I am  pretty sure there are some large artifacts?
Quite amusingly, Sword of Darkness uses a Katana/Longsword/Bastard Sword as a material component. So Matryoshka of Colossal Swords can occur.
Animate Instrument uses any musical instrument, so I guess that depends on how big of a instrument you can construct
Despoil uses the corpse of any living creature, so colossal+ size.
And probably the easiest one to get to any size you want, Shadow Trap uses a Black cloth drape which can cover a target object of the spell, so it can get to the surface area of any object effectively.