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The PBMC Metacompendium / Weapon Statistic Reverse Engineering
« on: March 22, 2018, 08:40:23 PM »
"I love how 3.5 lays bare many of the rules and says "here, customize it as you wish.' I'm trying to deduce the weapon creation guidelines used for based off damage categories and all other stats that influence it. Though I don't expect them all to line up perfectly (plus or minus 1 category is good enough), I do hope for guidelines similar to how magic items are priced. What I have so far:
Categories: Ranged Projectile with ammunition, Ranged Thrown, Simple Melee, Martial Melee, or Exotic (which usually require a feat tax). Otherwise its improvised (-4hit, damage of comparable size, worst crit, threat and range increment) which basically doesn't count as much of a weapon.
Damage Type: Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing.
Threat Range: (the "/" means on a roll of) 19-20/ or 18-20/ for a x2 multiplier, otherwise /20. Increasing this eat step counts as a damage increase.
Critical Multiplier: x2, x3, x4. Increasing this each step counts as a damage increase.
Handedness (not chirality): light, one or two-handed. Each one causes one die bump in damage per the same size (see short sword -> long sword -> great sword) and double the weight. Many ranged weapons require two hands and therefore have a built-in damage bump.
Sized: The default sized weapon is medium. Each bump in size causes a damage bump and a change in weight of double if going up or half if going down. Weapons cease to be lethal below 1d1. Depending on the original size the progression is usually 1->1d2->1d3->1d4->1d6->1d8->2d6->3d6 and then double the previous entry (so ->4d6->6d6->8d6, etc). Weapons may start at 1d12 or 2d4 but then progress normally after that. Weapons may start at 1d10 and progress to 2d8 and 3d8 and aside from the d8's they continue normally.
Damage: Each bump above increases the points alotted by one except Two handed and exotic seem to give an additional 1 to the range. Simply light 5-6bumps/points, simply 1handed 6-7bumps/points, simply 2handed 7-9bumps/points, martial light 6-7bumps/points, martial 1handed 7-8bumps/points, martial 2handed 8-10bumps/points, exotic light 6-8bumps/points, exotic 1handed 7-9bumps/points, exotic 2handed 9-11bumps/points. I have no idea about ranged weapons baseline damage. They seem to have a correlation between loading, thrown and range increment. Anyone care to throw some statistics at it for me?
Weight: Anywhere from .5lb to 15lb (? there are probably heavier than the Naginata). Seems to have little effect but might be a tie-breaker for an on-the-fence case.
Cost: Anywhere from 0gp (club) to 400gp (are there handleable weapons more expensive than a heavy repeating crossbow?). Seems to have little effect.
Lastly, Ranged Weapons have a Range Increment: anywhere in multiples of 5 from 10' to 120'. See the end of the damage remarks.
Common Boolean Values, most of which are added in lieu of a damage increase:
Is it Finesseable?
Is it a Double Weapon? This seems to often only cost damage on one side.
Is it a Special Monk Weapon?
Does it deal nonlethal damage without penalty?
Is it Reach? If so, can it Attack Adjacent enemies?
Can you Trip with it? If so, can you be tripped? If so, can you drop the weapon to avoid it?
Example (Popular) Weapon of Kurari-gama:
1 for 1d6/1d4 as a double weapon
5 for the larger 1d6 damage
1.5 Has Reach but can strike Adjacent enemies
1 can Trip with it and can drop to avoid being tripped
1 Finessable
= 9 which fits the 9 to 12 points for a exotic 2handed weapon.
So what else am I missing that is a special feature present in more than one weapon? Are special features that are present in only one weapon 'line' (like lances) worth mentioning? What about apparently unique effect like shurikens counting as ammunition for enchanting (unless there is another instance of this in another weapon when not improvised)?
Edit: I've gone through all of the PHB weapons and they all line up except whip, halberd, great club and light hammer. Only the halberd is better than it should be."
"I was reading an article a while back where one of the 3.x designers basically broke down the weapon "template":
For starters, each weapon is allotted a # of points based on size and proficiency category:
- size -- light = 1 ; 1-handed = 2 ; 2-handed = 3
- proficiency -- simple = 1 ; martial = 2 ; exotic = 3
so, all weapons will have 2-6 points.
This assumes that you are building a weapon for a medium-sized creature.
the base "weapon" starts as 1d3, 20/x2
Then you purchase upgrades, each upgrade costs 1 point:
- each die-size increase
- each increase in critical threat range
- each increase in crit multiplier
- special qualities
sometimes the special qualities are shoehorned in via "eyeballing it" ..... just like everything else in the game.
but that's just for melee wpns .... I'm not exactly sure how range wpns are run." - Wotmaniac
"Your numbers seem right. Though the whole system seems to have exceptions... so it seems to be "use this as a base and play it by ear."
Also, much like the magic item creation rules you will want to clarify that the DM has final say. Note the difference between a spiked chain and a warmace... I mean damn." - bobthe6th
Categories: Ranged Projectile with ammunition, Ranged Thrown, Simple Melee, Martial Melee, or Exotic (which usually require a feat tax). Otherwise its improvised (-4hit, damage of comparable size, worst crit, threat and range increment) which basically doesn't count as much of a weapon.
Damage Type: Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing.
Threat Range: (the "/" means on a roll of) 19-20/ or 18-20/ for a x2 multiplier, otherwise /20. Increasing this eat step counts as a damage increase.
Critical Multiplier: x2, x3, x4. Increasing this each step counts as a damage increase.
Handedness (not chirality): light, one or two-handed. Each one causes one die bump in damage per the same size (see short sword -> long sword -> great sword) and double the weight. Many ranged weapons require two hands and therefore have a built-in damage bump.
Sized: The default sized weapon is medium. Each bump in size causes a damage bump and a change in weight of double if going up or half if going down. Weapons cease to be lethal below 1d1. Depending on the original size the progression is usually 1->1d2->1d3->1d4->1d6->1d8->2d6->3d6 and then double the previous entry (so ->4d6->6d6->8d6, etc). Weapons may start at 1d12 or 2d4 but then progress normally after that. Weapons may start at 1d10 and progress to 2d8 and 3d8 and aside from the d8's they continue normally.
Damage: Each bump above increases the points alotted by one except Two handed and exotic seem to give an additional 1 to the range. Simply light 5-6bumps/points, simply 1handed 6-7bumps/points, simply 2handed 7-9bumps/points, martial light 6-7bumps/points, martial 1handed 7-8bumps/points, martial 2handed 8-10bumps/points, exotic light 6-8bumps/points, exotic 1handed 7-9bumps/points, exotic 2handed 9-11bumps/points. I have no idea about ranged weapons baseline damage. They seem to have a correlation between loading, thrown and range increment. Anyone care to throw some statistics at it for me?
Weight: Anywhere from .5lb to 15lb (? there are probably heavier than the Naginata). Seems to have little effect but might be a tie-breaker for an on-the-fence case.
Cost: Anywhere from 0gp (club) to 400gp (are there handleable weapons more expensive than a heavy repeating crossbow?). Seems to have little effect.
Lastly, Ranged Weapons have a Range Increment: anywhere in multiples of 5 from 10' to 120'. See the end of the damage remarks.
Common Boolean Values, most of which are added in lieu of a damage increase:
Is it Finesseable?
Is it a Double Weapon? This seems to often only cost damage on one side.
Is it a Special Monk Weapon?
Does it deal nonlethal damage without penalty?
Is it Reach? If so, can it Attack Adjacent enemies?
Can you Trip with it? If so, can you be tripped? If so, can you drop the weapon to avoid it?
Example (Popular) Weapon of Kurari-gama:
1 for 1d6/1d4 as a double weapon
5 for the larger 1d6 damage
1.5 Has Reach but can strike Adjacent enemies
1 can Trip with it and can drop to avoid being tripped
1 Finessable
= 9 which fits the 9 to 12 points for a exotic 2handed weapon.
So what else am I missing that is a special feature present in more than one weapon? Are special features that are present in only one weapon 'line' (like lances) worth mentioning? What about apparently unique effect like shurikens counting as ammunition for enchanting (unless there is another instance of this in another weapon when not improvised)?
Edit: I've gone through all of the PHB weapons and they all line up except whip, halberd, great club and light hammer. Only the halberd is better than it should be."
"I was reading an article a while back where one of the 3.x designers basically broke down the weapon "template":
For starters, each weapon is allotted a # of points based on size and proficiency category:
- size -- light = 1 ; 1-handed = 2 ; 2-handed = 3
- proficiency -- simple = 1 ; martial = 2 ; exotic = 3
so, all weapons will have 2-6 points.
This assumes that you are building a weapon for a medium-sized creature.
the base "weapon" starts as 1d3, 20/x2
Then you purchase upgrades, each upgrade costs 1 point:
- each die-size increase
- each increase in critical threat range
- each increase in crit multiplier
- special qualities
sometimes the special qualities are shoehorned in via "eyeballing it" ..... just like everything else in the game.
but that's just for melee wpns .... I'm not exactly sure how range wpns are run." - Wotmaniac
"Your numbers seem right. Though the whole system seems to have exceptions... so it seems to be "use this as a base and play it by ear."
Also, much like the magic item creation rules you will want to clarify that the DM has final say. Note the difference between a spiked chain and a warmace... I mean damn." - bobthe6th
Ohh that's niice, especially if you can find that link.I really wish I could ... I've been looking for that thing for years.@wotmaniac: That seems isomorphic to the system I'm describing.Then it would appear that you are on the right track