Author Topic: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)  (Read 27136 times)

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #40 on: December 19, 2013, 06:50:23 PM »
I haven't got Dragon or Planescape; could you PM me the feats?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #41 on: December 20, 2013, 04:34:57 PM »
Kirnon is done except for background, not really sure what to do with that part. 

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2013, 02:13:48 AM »

Risada having declined, there is now one vacancy for a player, if there is one sufficiently intrigued. (MetroMagic has expressed interest; however, as he is in the related campaign, I feel others should first be given a chance to join, if relevant.)
Edit: this post now obsolete.

Hi all! PM from Quill: I’m in.

I sent him three possible character concepts, based on my own mistaken concept of what he was running. I came across this game in mid-creation, read a couple of backstories, and it seemed the characters had died… so I thought it was a game for dead characters :D

However, my mistake was inspiring, because a character immediately came to mind, mostly because: he’s dead {sound of headslap}; I’ve played variations of him as a dead character in games before. Immediately followed by two more characters that came to mind, all three having this in common: They were all killed out of games unjustly, at least IMHO, and deserve to be continued. I don’t mind if a character dies for justified reasons… well, I mind anyway, as do most of us, but… you get the idea.

So I wrote to Quill about joining, he set me straight, but I told him I’d love to join anyway.  It’s a cool world to wander in. And maybe dead will work anyway for Quill and the rest of the party… see what you think after reading this.

I see you’ve all been sharing character concept ideas, so here is a quick recap of the three.

For any of them, their unrest has led them across the Astral Plane to seek a new existence in this world... not necessarily a live existence, just a new existence. All were higher level than L2 where we are starting, but that's easy to adjust. They'll need adjusting anyway because all were D&D 1.0 or 2.0 characters, not D20 based. But the main thing is to keep the character concept and story, and it's easy to say any of them were weakened by death and recovery will take a while.

The first is a human barbarian shaman. He had only one magic item: his sword, which is also his mentor and trainer. The sword too would need to be toned down, and rewritten a bit, but that's not a problem: in the original concept it's only as strong as its wielder. Alignment CG. Name: The Shaman; he lost his other names when he died. Sword's name: Sunshatter.

The second is a Duergar cleric of both earth and fire, which are holy to him. His cleric themes are what's important, for example his healing feels like it sears as it heals, not a pleasant experience. Alignment CN. Name: Dhogurregdin (have to double-check the spelling).

The third is a classic adventurer, an Elven ranger mage. His one oddity is an ability to change into a bird at will (and spellcast while in bird form if desired; but typical bird sizes, *not* for example, a giant eagle) and he speaks Avian besides Elven and Common - it's important to the character concept as part of his clan story. Alignment NG, I think. Name: Bluebird Aeyrieling.

It looks like FITS is playing a Dwaerrow; we don’t necessarily need a Duergar in the party. Unless *ale* is the objective, by the cask :P  And the Elven ranger mage seems tame for this party of interesting variants, so I’m inclined toward the Shaman, which was my first choice all along. I PMed this to Quill already and said I’d play any of them, for example if he didn’t want to deal with a dead character. While he thinks, and to give you and him something more concrete to think about, here is a quick rough build for the Shaman that captures the essentials of his story and concept, while adjusting for what I could do with 2 levels in 3.5.

Race: Human, standard PHB.

Template: Ghost, from Ghostwalk.
I looked at a lot of Ghosts, from SRD to Oslecamo to homebrew, and came back to this one for several great reasons involving (a) simplicity and (b) trueness to the Shaman’s story. First, in this template, this type of Ghost is NOT UNDEAD. The text makes it clear that unlike the Monster: Ghost, this ghost is simply a dead spirit. That is all. And it’s a great simplifier, because I don’t want to try to put an undead PC into the party or game for lots of very problematic reasons. And the Shaman is not undead, he’s just dead, so it’s perfect.

Ghost Trait: Sunshatter
Within the template, the PC has a Ghost Trait, something it wants to do all the time that is typical of its life. The Shaman’s is: keeping around his sword and mentor, Sunshatter. I’m spending a lot of character building resources to simulate the sword; you’ll see how this works. In game mechanics, the sword will come from the Shaman and will not be a separate piece of equipment (since we initially don’t have equipment); the rest is just how it’s all fluffed.

Here are relevant parts of the writeup pasted from Ghostwalk.
(click to show/hide)

The template is still kind of powerful, especially the incorporeal subtype. So I’ve toned the character down somewhat in various ways. One is by spending two Feats on appearance instead of the usual things that make characters more powerful. These two Feats together counteract the usual “moment of death appearance” downside of the Ghost template, which don’t match the Shaman’s story as I have played him, but have mostly fluff value only:

Control Visage
Solid Visage

I’m spending two Feats (one doesn’t come till L3) in a chain to simulate the Shaman’s TK ability, which will also allow him to interact with the solid world. Other object and energy control abilities he had will have to wait; I can’t fit them in.
Ghost Touch
Poltergeist Hand

One Feat goes toward re-creating the Shaman’s Healing ability in 3.5:
Attune Node to Positive Plane Ability: Infusion, Cure Minor Wounds at will as Swift Action (DC9, or healing is halved)


Classes:

Using the Flexible Ghost Advancement Variant rule in Ghostwalk puts the character’s classes back on the same track as everyone else. I’ll skip the details and just observe: Simpler. And once again, fits the Shaman’s storyline.

1 Level of Dragon Shaman, refluffed to focus on Elemental stuff and the spirits in all things. I’ll be refluffing the dragon breath ability to simulate a little of Sunshatter’s elemental ability without having a “real” magic sword on hand. I would also like to trade out the “Source of Power” benefit and its Dragonblooded Template, which are at L1, and replace the two of them with these two class features from the Spirit Shaman: Detect Spirits and Chastise Spirits, also at L1. When I looked at Shaman classes and variants, this was the closest mix to match my character, with better balance.

Dragon Shaman has some flexible party buff abilities that scale with Level; from what I’ve read in the OOC so far, it’s a good party role to fill, and it’s a way for an incorporeal character to interact regularly with the rest of the world.

1 Level of Aetherforge also refluffed to focus on the spirits in all things. I think FITS is planning on an Aetherforge character; I think I have different directions to go in for the Shaman’s Forgings Known, so even though the Forging choices are restricted at L1, the characters will diverge as they level up, and the two characters will play very differently anyway, and even more so in how they’re fluffed {note to FITS, I’ll make sure that happens :) }

Specifically, the Shaman would have these three:

Weapon of Aether – refluffed as a representation of his mentor/sword, how he’ll call it into being with no equipment - see the backstory below
Aetherfire Aura – fluffed to enhance the sword
Aether Probe – matches the Shaman’s story to sense the Magic spirits in things

All conditioned on Quill’s approval; none yet!!

So, what IS that story?
(click to show/hide)

That’s a fairly detailed character build; the rest of the details won’t take long to put together, so I can catch up with everyone and be ready. If this is all OK with Quill :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 02:18:35 AM by MetroMagic »

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2013, 06:40:01 PM »
Pardon my absence; it was Christmas, then other things happened. I shall reply to what I have missed shortly.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #44 on: January 02, 2014, 02:50:09 PM »
Quill (and all) – Just so you don’t feel pressure to approve the one character I built of the three, here is the skeleton build of the other two of the three. From what I’ve seen proposed for the other characters in the game, the Shaman might be a little overpowered, or at least toward the high end. This character if approved may be a little underpowered, but I’m fine with that; the point is to play the character concept, either way. If the Shaman doesn’t fly, this character if approved would definitely fly :D

The Elven ranger-mage-part time bluebird. Name: Bluebird Aeyrieling.

The best move of the character into 3.5 that I found is Prime32’s Fixed Lycanthrope Template for 3.5. It will cost a level to take this template.

The result: 1 Level of Were-Bluebird.

To get spellcasting in bird form, there is the Natural Spell feat in the Ghostwalk version of the feat, which includes shifted forms, and the PHB version, which says you can use material components melded within your form by the shapeshift.

Both of these require some approvals for adjustments from Quill:

First, a smaller Size: The Lycanthrope template says the animal form has to be one Size different from the humanoid form. A bluebird is size Diminutive, not size Small. Bluebirds are 6 to 8 inches and weigh about 1 ounce, which would be size Diminutive in the SRD table. Maybe this will be OK with Quill, because a bluebird also has no effective natural attack (I’m not going to claim that getting pecked and scratched by a 1 ounce bird causes real damage) so the improved defense of 8 to armor class has some offset. The character won’t be picking up a killer animal form by spending a level on Lycanthrope Were-Bluebird.

Next, applying the Feat: Basically I need approval to cherrypick those two versions of the Natural Spell feat. The Ghostwalk version of the feat does say “You can cast spells while in wild shape or shifted form” but it also says “ability to use wild shape” as a prerequisite, so I need Quill’s approval to count the Lycanthrope shifted form for this purpose. I’ll also need to include the ability to use melded material components. The original character used a homebrew feat by the DM called “Hamecast” because the word “hame” meant shape or form in old English, or old Gaelic, or some other such language; it was the equivalent of Natural Spell as I’ve described it.

The other level of the character will be something that has some combat and some casting, maybe an initiating class, or some other way to get a little of each. There are lots of ways to do this that could fit, and I’m open to suggestions. The Aeyrieling clan is closely connected to Elemental magic, Air especially, so an initiating combat class with an Air orientation could work.

EDIT: The third character, a Fire-Earth cleric Duergar, would be easy. A Duergar has LA +1, so one level of Cleric in some Elemental oriented way; I’m sure I can find something that works. Or if you don’t want a LA +1 race, I guess he could be a gray colored half-Deep Dwarf half-Duergar, played with Deep Dwarf mechanics, LA +0. Suggestions are welcome.

This time, BRIEF in truth. Done.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2014, 03:05:33 PM by MetroMagic »

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2014, 07:08:29 PM »
The main problems with undead are the fluff and the immunities, which the Ghostwalk ghost does seem to share most of. Incorporeality could be tricky too; a place in which much of the game may take place is home to several high level characters, and it would be only sensible for the walls to be ghostproofed in some manner, but I don't want to shut you down outright.
Maybe you could simply play one of these as a living character instead?

Bluebird Aeyrieling.
I rather like that name, somehow.

It looks like FITS is playing a Dwaerrow; we don’t necessarily need a Duergar in the party. Unless *ale* is the objective, by the cask :P  And the Elven ranger mage seems tame for this party of interesting variants, so I’m inclined toward the Shaman, which was my first choice all along.
There's nothing wrong with two dwarves. There is not too much of a planned plot, so you... could just go after ale, I guess.


First, a smaller Size: The Lycanthrope template says the animal form has to be one Size different from the humanoid form. A bluebird is size Diminutive, not size Small. Bluebirds are 6 to 8 inches and weigh about 1 ounce, which would be size Diminutive in the SRD table. Maybe this will be OK with Quill, because a bluebird also has no effective natural attack (I’m not going to claim that getting pecked and scratched by a 1 ounce bird causes real damage) so the improved defense of 8 to armor class has some offset. The character won’t be picking up a killer animal form by spending a level on Lycanthrope Were-Bluebird.
This seems fine.

Next, applying the Feat: Basically I need approval to cherrypick those two versions of the Natural Spell feat. The Ghostwalk version of the feat does say “You can cast spells while in wild shape or shifted form” but it also says “ability to use wild shape” as a prerequisite, so I need Quill’s approval to count the Lycanthrope shifted form for this purpose.
This also.

I’ll also need to include the ability to use melded material components.
Need? Why?

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2014, 03:50:12 AM »
Quill - I’ve been dithering today, over which to play. So many characters, so little time! Here is my thinking:

The setting is going to be a place that is home to several high level characters, with ghostproofed walls and the other kinds of defenses that high level characters should have… that’s why they have lived to be high-level characters.

Dhogguregdin probably wouldn’t do well there. As a cleric of fire and stone, the last big warded building he was in… didn’t do too well either. When the fight breaks out, his methods are too destructive for polite company, especially in someone else’s house. And he isn’t polite company even under the best of circumstances. Someone with a little subtlety and better table manners :D might be a good idea.

Bluebird has subtlety, and flexibility, but he’s really at his best outdoors. Changing into a bluebird indoors has limited applicability, and his magical combat style is also not good for buildings, or furniture for that matter. Air magic blows out windows, wrecks curtains, and completely overturns any hope of keeping the housemaster’s desk papers in order. I had a side conversation about Sniper with FITS because it would do well for Bluebird… but the indoor setting is the reason FITS isn’t playing a Sniper himself. That kind of settled my thinking about Bluebird… great character, wrong game.

This seems to leave the Shaman. I could play him in a body that looks like him. It’s happened before; in two games since his death, the DMs via the local deities put him into a body – one at the outset, one eventually. It was ok; he lived survived made it through the adventure anyway. And I like the opportunity here to create Sunshatter from class attribute mechanics and fluff without actually having a magic sword as an item… cool! And appropriate!  The Shaman is respectful, and has some subtlety, and flexibility, so he is ok for the setting, but as a barbarian his heart is in the outdoors, not in some powerful person’s house… and I might get to play him in another campaign anyway that is faltering after a start but might go forward… pretty good chance. A consideration outside this game but still relevant.

Another alternative occurred to me, from a campaign that seems very unlikely to go forward. My latest favorite character. (And weirdest in concept.) Here’s another great advantage: She’s just about ready to go in this game. She was created as a L8 gestalt, but would be very easy to unwind into a L2 non-gestalt. Coincidentally (or maybe not) in some ways she’s like Blisss, but some of her core motivations are very different.

CaraVela appears to be a beautiful lady, with some Elven blood. Human-equivalent appearance early to mid 20s. About 5’7”, 105lb. Thin, very athletic build, like a dancer not a wrestler. Light, rich creamy tan skin, the color of sycamore bark; unruly long golden hair; intensely cerulean blue eyes, matching the headband barely containing her hair. Likes to dress in light browns and blues. Prefers dark ruby jewelry; curiously, she says the color matches her eyes. No makeup or perfume; in fact, she has no scent at all: she isn’t a biological creature in the ordinary sense, doesn’t sweat or produce pheromones. She is room temperature, to the touch. She seems restless, always pacing, but a very close look shows she is floating, blue boots not quite touching the floor.

Classes: Smalljammer 1, a Living Construct monster class; Holomancer 1

Feats:

1st – Mindsight, detect and pinpoint beings with INT 1 or higher, including the being's type and INT score

1st (Flaw) – Deceivingly Innocent Form
(click to show/hide)

1st (Flaw) – Extractor, Wandering Shoes, select a Feat, keep it active by moving; she usually uses this for a low powered healing Feat (until L3 Holomancer when she gets more Healing) but could use it for a little other magic if the party needs it more, mostly L0, a little L1.

Yes, she’s from Spelljamming. No, you don’t have to include spelljamming in the game; she’s not capable of true flight at L1 anyway and not capable of true spelljamming until L7. (in her personal history, she’s just kind of drifted from world to world at random, as I will post.) She hadn’t made L7 even in that higher level game, which means not ever in her history. And she doesn’t know what spelljamming is or what sort of creature she is, so she can’t even bring up the subject. No worries.

As a living construct CaraVela does get some immunities, but the list and impact aren’t quite as drastic as incorporeal creatures. At least she’s solid!

High charisma, well mannered, flexible, not particularly destructive, respectful, and has a personality trait to keep a low profile by defensive habit, to stay out of trouble. She doesn’t want to get run out of town… or worse, off-world… again. Seems very good for operating inside someone’s living spaces.

So I think she’s moved up to first on the list, all things considered, if she’s ok to play. With the Shaman as a good Plan B, put into a body… therefore maybe Made-Eyed, if you’d like to hand out a bonus feat :)

For your consideration.

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #47 on: January 04, 2014, 03:15:45 PM »
Bluebird has subtlety, and flexibility, but he’s really at his best outdoors. Changing into a bluebird indoors has limited applicability, and his magical combat style is also not good for buildings, or furniture for that matter. Air magic blows out windows, wrecks curtains, and completely overturns any hope of keeping the housemaster’s desk papers in order.
I like him, but your reasoning makes sense.


Light, rich creamy tan skin, the color of sycamore bark; unruly long golden hair; intensely cerulean blue eyes, matching the headband barely containing her hair. Likes to dress in light browns and blues. Prefers dark ruby jewelry; curiously, she says the color matches her eyes. No makeup or perfume; in fact, she has no scent at all: she isn’t a biological creature in the ordinary sense, doesn’t sweat or produce pheromones. She is room temperature, to the touch. She seems restless, always pacing, but a very close look shows she is floating, blue boots not quite touching the floor.
Intriguing.

Classes: Smalljammer 1, a Living Construct monster class; Holomancer 1
Holomancer class okayed. Spelljammer looks fine. Why did you type Smalljammer?


Yes, she’s from Spelljamming. No, you don’t have to include spelljamming in the game; she’s not capable of true flight at L1 anyway and not capable of true spelljamming until L7.
Good; I have know idea how it works.
(in her personal history, she’s just kind of drifted from world to world at random, as I will post.)
So, is the backstory supposed to have occured before she somehow drifted to this world?

As a living construct CaraVela does get some immunities, but the list and impact aren’t quite as drastic as incorporeal creatures. At least she’s solid!
Yah, that looks fine.

With the Shaman as a good Plan B, put into a body… therefore maybe Made-Eyed, if you’d like to hand out a bonus feat.
It's a trait, not a feat, and would only occur if it was the Makers who had embodied him (unlikely).

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2014, 04:00:30 PM »
Quill (and all) - CaraVela is up on the character thread, for comments!

Ready to play, as soon as whatever adjustments Quill wants are in place.

Quill - one fine point in the mass of rules that I noticed:  If CaraVela has chosen her ability for the day to do some party healing (which she probably will, most days, unless the party needs something else) then she gets two conflicting conditions - they're exact opposites, so they probably should just cancel out, if that's OK with you. She simultaneously has 1/2 healing from healing spells cast, and 50% more healing from healing spells cast. Sounds like "cancel each other" to me!! OK?

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2014, 09:44:34 PM »
Spelljammer looks fine. Why did you type Smalljammer?

Wikipedia has a good, very brief summary of a complex topic: The vast, fullsize ship is The Spelljammer; its offspring, produced with its captain, are Smalljammers, which mature for a long time, growing and growing, and one eventually may become a new Spelljammer.

So, is the backstory supposed to have occured before she somehow drifted to this world?

Correct! Though she has traveled very slowly over a very long time between and through many other worlds, I envision that she has been on this world for a long time, a few hundred years at least, traveling, learning the local customs and geography, eventually establishing her craft as a mapmaker, craftsperson of elegant small items and tools, and research assistant as she usually does, but keeping a low profile wherever she is. She sees herself as a traveler and maker of fine objects, not really an adventurer and definitely not a crusader. And she's definitely not in it for treasure.

If the storyline you envision requires a change to this scenario, no problem; but from what you've said so far, the characters simply find themselves pulled from their daily lives and thrown into a situation that they weren't expecting, so she could have been doing her usual thing and then finds herself wherever you put her.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2014, 01:38:23 PM »
Oops, I deleted too much of the Ancestor text and ideas from the character build; I fixed this and added a Change Log at the end for your reading convenience, so that any further changes don’t require anyone to read the whole post to find out what has changed.

The changes are not drastic: Some fluff text from recalling ancient memories before her lifetime, and at L2: Intimidation -10, Cartographer skill +5, Fire Resistance 1, Init +1, Elven as a bonus language, some additional class skills, but no additional points.

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2014, 05:48:52 PM »
Quill - one fine point in the mass of rules that I noticed:  If CaraVela has chosen her ability for the day to do some party healing (which she probably will, most days, unless the party needs something else) then she gets two conflicting conditions - they're exact opposites, so they probably should just cancel out, if that's OK with you. She simultaneously has 1/2 healing from healing spells cast, and 50% more healing from healing spells cast. Sounds like "cancel each other" to me!! OK?

150/100*50/100=75% healing, I think. 1/2 healing (where's that, incidentally?) would be canceled by double healing.

Spelljammer looks fine. Why did you type Smalljammer?

Wikipedia has a good, very brief summary of a complex topic: The vast, fullsize ship is The Spelljammer; its offspring, produced with its captain, are Smalljammers, which mature for a long time, growing and growing, and one eventually may become a new Spelljammer.
Understood. Thank you.

So, is the backstory supposed to have occured before she somehow drifted to this world?

Correct! Though she has traveled very slowly over a very long time between and through many other worlds, I envision that she has been on this world for a long time, a few hundred years at least, traveling, learning the local customs and geography, eventually establishing her craft as a mapmaker, craftsperson of elegant small items and tools, and research assistant as she usually does, but keeping a low profile wherever she is. She sees herself as a traveler and maker of fine objects, not really an adventurer and definitely not a crusader. And she's definitely not in it for treasure.

If the storyline you envision requires a change to this scenario, no problem; but from what you've said so far, the characters simply find themselves pulled from their daily lives and thrown into a situation that they weren't expecting, so she could have been doing her usual thing and then finds herself wherever you put her.
It works; having a multi-hundred year old be only level 2 seems a bit odd, but not impossible.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #52 on: January 15, 2014, 09:40:43 PM »
Quill - one fine point in the mass of rules that I noticed:  If CaraVela has chosen her ability for the day to do some party healing (which she probably will, most days, unless the party needs something else) then she gets two conflicting conditions - they're exact opposites, so they probably should just cancel out, if that's OK with you. She simultaneously has 1/2 healing from healing spells cast, and 50% more healing from healing spells cast. Sounds like "cancel each other" to me!! OK?
150/100*50/100=75% healing, I think. 1/2 healing (where's that, incidentally?) would be canceled by double healing.

Interesting. If you apply the two effects in either order sequentially, you get the same answer:
Heal 2HP. 2HP*50% = 1 HP, then 1HP*150% = 1.5HP.
Or, 2HP*150% = 3HP, then 3HP*50% = 1.5HP.

However, I wasn’t thinking of either scenario; I was applying both effects simultaneously, rather than sequentially: I’m getting healed 2HP. 2HP*50% = 1HP, I lose 1HP from the effect that reduces it by 50%. At the same time, 2HP*150% = 3HP, I gain 1HP from the effect that increases it by 50%. They cancel.

So I guess your call is whether the effects are sequentially applied or simultaneously applied.

If sequentially, then another issue arises: The Healing that she does for herself and everyone at this level is a Cure Minor, which provides 1HP. If she would only get 75% of it, what do we do with a fractional HP of healing? Round it up to 1HP, in which case it’s moot? Or drop the fraction to 0HP, in which case she can’t heal herself? Sticky question.



There is a little twist to this in a similar question, which we have to answer anyway. To avoid deluging you with detail I was going to bring it up when it happened, but here we are.

This is a separate but similar issue: She has to make a DC roll when she does a Cure through Planar Attunement, or it only supplies half. For clarity, this is a different “half” effect, not the one I was asking about above, and it applies to every recipient, not just CaraVela. For Cure Minor, it’s DC9. The Attunement roll is d20+L1+3 INT, so a 5 or more makes it; she will miss occasionally. Since Cure Minor only supplies 1HP, when she misses the DC9 roll, do the other characters, who would then get only 0.5HP, get healed because it’s rounded to 1, or not because it’s dropped to 0? (I assume no one wants to track fractional HP.) So we have to go there anyway…

I’m assuming they (and she) get no healing when she misses the DC9, otherwise there would be no penalty for missing. That consideration takes the ruling out of the realm of arithmetic technicalities.



It works; having a multi-hundred year old be only level 2 seems a bit odd, but not impossible.

Yah, it really highlights some quirks of the XP system. As every player and DM knows, a very young character could advance to a high level in a short time - months or even hours of in-game time for the characters – by a lot of intense adventuring with many monster deaths in it, and still be very young. Meanwhile, a character who just travels in a fairly solitary way, without killing anything or conquering anything, could languish without much level advancement indefinitely (which is why most games don’t go that way, at least not IC). There isn’t any easy systemic fix to this. Some DMs award XP for many things besides monsters, which helps, but there are usually still disproportionate opportunities with combat.

Not only that, the first character would have amassed a big pile of skill points even though they arguably haven’t really gotten better at much of anything except swinging a sword, while the second character would not have increased their skill levels in-game even though they undoubtedly have gained a lot of knowledge and skills during many years of wandering. Even skill points depend on level advancement. For skills, there isn’t any easy systemic fix to this either. If you handed out bonus skill points with a formula based on age, everyone would start playing ancient angels and devils, or other Outsiders who could be millions of years old.

For myself, I just pay most of my attention to Story, and I’m content (mostly) with however the XP chips fall. CaraVela certainly isn’t uber-optimized, for example she could be much more powerful in melee – but that’s not CaraVela.

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2014, 04:24:55 PM »
Interesting. If you apply the two effects in either order sequentially, you get the same answer:
Heal 2HP. 2HP*50% = 1 HP, then 1HP*150% = 1.5HP.
Or, 2HP*150% = 3HP, then 3HP*50% = 1.5HP.

However, I wasn’t thinking of either scenario; I was applying both effects simultaneously, rather than sequentially: I’m getting healed 2HP. 2HP*50% = 1HP, I lose 1HP from the effect that reduces it by 50%. At the same time, 2HP*150% = 3HP, I gain 1HP from the effect that increases it by 50%. They cancel.
That is actually rather fascinating, and I have little idea how to treat it.
Applying them sequentially is slightly more convenient math-wise, so I'm inclined to go with that for game purposes, but an actual solution would be preferred. Hmm.

If sequentially, then another issue arises: The Healing that she does for herself and everyone at this level is a Cure Minor, which provides 1HP. If she would only get 75% of it, what do we do with a fractional HP of healing? Round it up to 1HP, in which case it’s moot? Or drop the fraction to 0HP, in which case she can’t heal herself? Sticky question.
The PH says to round down if not specified, even if it's more than half, so she can't self-heal, yet.


This is a separate but similar issue: She has to make a DC roll when she does a Cure through Planar Attunement, or it only supplies half. For clarity, this is a different “half” effect, not the one I was asking about above, and it applies to every recipient, not just CaraVela. For Cure Minor, it’s DC9. The Attunement roll is d20+L1+3 INT, so a 5 or more makes it; she will miss occasionally. Since Cure Minor only supplies 1HP, when she misses the DC9 roll, do the other characters, who would then get only 0.5HP, get healed because it’s rounded to 1, or not because it’s dropped to 0? (I assume no one wants to track fractional HP.) So we have to go there anyway…
Seems so.

It works; having a multi-hundred year old be only level 2 seems a bit odd, but not impossible.

Yah, it really highlights some quirks of the XP system. As every player and DM knows, a very young character could advance to a high level in a short time - months or even hours of in-game time for the characters – by a lot of intense adventuring with many monster deaths in it, and still be very young. Meanwhile, a character who just travels in a fairly solitary way, without killing anything or conquering anything, could languish without much level advancement indefinitely (which is why most games don’t go that way, at least not IC). There isn’t any easy systemic fix to this. Some DMs award XP for many things besides monsters, which helps, but there are usually still disproportionate opportunities with combat.

Not only that, the first character would have amassed a big pile of skill points even though they arguably haven’t really gotten better at much of anything except swinging a sword, while the second character would not have increased their skill levels in-game even though they undoubtedly have gained a lot of knowledge and skills during many years of wandering. Even skill points depend on level advancement. For skills, there isn’t any easy systemic fix to this either. If you handed out bonus skill points with a formula based on age, everyone would start playing ancient angels and devils, or other Outsiders who could be millions of years old.

For myself, I just pay most of my attention to Story, and I’m content (mostly) with however the XP chips fall. CaraVela certainly isn’t uber-optimized, for example she could be much more powerful in melee – but that’s not CaraVela.
I've always accommodated that by making really old characters higher level, but it needn't be a strict rule.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2014, 03:12:54 AM »
Looking for something to help us with the fractional HP situation, I went on a deep dive into the details.

I came up with some help, though not a complete resolution.

First, my concern about whether CaraVela  can heal herself was misplaced, which is a good thing because otherwise she would want to take some other ability on most days, probably Fast Healing, which wouldn’t let her help everyone else. Even if our party has other healing, some from CaraVela is better.
(click to show/hide)
Therefore, it looks like we don’t need to resolve the plus a half, minus a half question for this. If she makes the DC, she gets 1HP, just like everyone else. Good!

However, we still are stuck with the issue for Healing spells that are cast by others on CaraVela. On the other hand, even if we go with 75%, rather than cancellation, then at least she will get some healing, even from a Cure Light. A Cure Light normally produces at least 2HP when a 1 is rolled, so CaraVela would always get at least some healing from a Cure Light spell, 1 to 5HP less than usual.
(click to show/hide)

So here is a summary of the situation:
  • CaraVela can heal herself with the healing ability; it will provide 1HP, just as it does for others, if she makes her DC.
  • If I read your comments correctly, Quill, I think we are going with a failed DC for the 1HP healing ability resulting in no healing, whether to CaraVela herself or to another party member, since a fractional HP is rounded down to zero whether it’s 0.5 or 0.75.
  • If CaraVela is healed by someone else’s Cure Spell, or a Cure Spell cast from an Item, then you’ll have to decide what to do about cancelling the plus half and minus half effects (which is easy!) or multiplying them to get 75% (still pretty easy). Even with 75%, CaraVela would always get at least some healing from a Cure Light spell.
So the healing ability questions seem to be resolved and it just works as written – 1HP if the DC is made, 0 if not - if the foregoing is ok with you, Quill… the remaining question is what to do with Cure spells cast by others on CaraVela, and the arithmetic is done already, in the spoiler above.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 03:15:36 AM by MetroMagic »

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2014, 02:48:53 PM »
So here is a summary of the situation:
  • CaraVela can heal herself with the healing ability; it will provide 1HP, just as it does for others, if she makes her DC.
Good
  • If I read your comments correctly, Quill, I think we are going with a failed DC for the 1HP healing ability resulting in no healing, whether to CaraVela herself or to another party member, since a fractional HP is rounded down to zero whether it’s 0.5 or 0.75.
That was the intention, yes.
  • If CaraVela is healed by someone else’s Cure Spell, or a Cure Spell cast from an Item, then you’ll have to decide what to do about cancelling the plus half and minus half effects (which is easy!) or multiplying them to get 75% (still pretty easy). Even with 75%, CaraVela would always get at least some healing from a Cure Light spell.
I'm inclined to rule 75%.[/list]

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2014, 03:07:21 PM »
I'm not sure how to fit Kirnon into your universe, mainly how the Blood King class fits in.

Offline Quillwraith

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2014, 02:50:12 PM »
Blood King fluff puzzles me in general, so I may not be able to help you so easily. He's... related to everyone? The Makers decided to combine a few too many species? I guess you could fluff it like a totemist, instead of being literally descended from the bloodlines.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2014, 03:12:50 PM »
Actually, it is possible for someone to have used maker "technology" to have tried to combine and whole bunch of different species to make something?

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: The conversation that is not by the fictional people (OOC)
« Reply #59 on: January 25, 2014, 04:37:19 AM »
I’ve been thinking about how CaraVela and the world fit together too. If you’re willing to take a little world-building at the hands of players, here is some that draws directly on what you already wrote, and talks about the places where CaraVela has been and what she’s been doing there.

I guessed at the spellings of place names from the map, so you’ll probably have some corrections. See if you like the rest of it!

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 04:38:53 AM by MetroMagic »