Author Topic: General Discussion and Sugestions  (Read 75520 times)

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #240 on: June 06, 2014, 11:12:12 PM »
It's kind of interesting, but I've yet to play it.
It seems to translate the idea of bullet hell play kind of okay to a tabletop grid. You can make your own spell cards and draw your own patterns for them :p
But while character creation seems pretty thorough, most of it does seem to just be numbers to validate fluff rather than vice-versa. Game looks a lot more roleplaying driven than mechanics.
An interesting thing about combat (both danmaku combat and "judgement"s (chitchatty back and forth)) is that while everything is opposed rolls, the goal isn't necessarily to roll higher than your opponent, but to get a die result as close to your opponents (or better exactly the same) as possible for higher Tension (use to cast spell cards) rewards! Battles are SUPER TENSE after all! Hahaha.
Which leads to the interesting idea of deciding to buy skills that not only can boost your die rolls, but subtract from your own rolls as well.

(And the artwork in the pdf is gorgeous  :D)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 11:20:52 PM by ketaro »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #241 on: June 07, 2014, 04:01:15 AM »
Hmm, the art is gorgeous I'll give you that (except Youmu's swords have both the same exact length because reasons). Seems kinda inter-Wait, the vampire mistress of the Scarlet Devil Mansion is classified as a demon? :psyduck

RRRAAAAGGGEEEEE!!!! :shakefist

Kinda nice premise of wanting to enter Gengyoko tough.

This is not the first made-from-scratch Touhou tabletop RPG I've seen around the net tough. I remember finding another a couple years ago or so.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #242 on: June 07, 2014, 07:22:27 AM »
Honestly, Remilia's status as a demon is ZUN's fault. She keeps getting referred to as a devil. Also, this line from the PMiSS article for vampires:
Quote
2: A devil's contract is absolute, thus one can never betray it.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #243 on: June 07, 2014, 07:45:47 AM »
Precisely, you can make an argument for Remilia being a devil. Not for her being a demon.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #244 on: June 07, 2014, 07:59:49 AM »
Eh, the two are more or less synonymous aside from some games. Just look at the definition:

Quote
demon1
ˈdiːmən/
noun
noun: demon; plural noun: demons

    1.
    an evil spirit or devil, especially one thought to possess a person or act as a tormentor in hell.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #245 on: June 07, 2014, 04:29:22 PM »
Quote
This is not the first made-from-scratch Touhou tabletop RPG I've seen around the net tough. I remember finding another a couple years ago or so.
I can't find it myself, but there is mention by the person who made this one having a different, older system called Youyoumu.

Demons, devils, fiends, they're all the same thing outside of D&D  :rolleyes

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #246 on: June 07, 2014, 06:12:03 PM »
So, are you claiming that chaotic drink-until-you-drop Suika would fit on the same category than the refined light drinker Remilia? :eh

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #247 on: June 07, 2014, 06:20:04 PM »
A race isn't a personality?

Everybody has a bad egg that messes with their species' refined reputation :p

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #248 on: June 07, 2014, 06:45:27 PM »
Yes? It's an umbrella term. It's not like Oni and Vampires are the same thing (given that Vampires would be the most broken Touhou race without their drawbacks, well...)

Remilia looks and acts under 10, anyway.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #249 on: June 07, 2014, 06:58:52 PM »
Remilia is vulnerable to the sun. Why she makes sure to have an umbrella when she gets out, and that's even how she's curbstomped in Sinner in Blue.

Suika on the other hand is a oni, which is basically just the japanese term for demon. She doesn't give a damn about sunlight, has horns, doesn't drink blood, and doesn't make devilish contracts.

Basically, devils have always been different from demons. Remilia is based on the old testament, the vampirish devil that sneaks around and drains the blood of the people and making murky deals. Demons are the rampaging brute monsters.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #250 on: June 07, 2014, 07:10:03 PM »
You're inserting distinctions that do not exist in either language. In English, a devil and demon are the same thing. In Japanese, Vampire contains the kanji for Oni. The result is that if you make an umbrella class of 'demon' in a Japanese game, you'll get vampires and oni.

Similarities: strength, the passage of time means nothing, and insane powers (control of density, fate, unexplained phenomena, and destruction between the four of them)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #251 on: June 07, 2014, 07:39:54 PM »
Except that Devils and Demons are different things in English all right.

Think about it for a moment. If they were the same thing, people wouldn't have bothered to come with different words in the first place.

They have similarities, yes. But by that kind of standard characters like Moukou and Cirno would count as a demons as well (they're all immortal entities with insane powers and great strength)

It's the differences that set them apart. Devils like contracts and manipulation and having servants, demons like to smash and wild party and chaotic mayhem.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 07:41:50 PM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #252 on: June 07, 2014, 07:42:58 PM »
The problem is, by that definition, the dictionary definition for demon should not be 'devil'. They might have different etymologies but, in common parlance, they mean the same thing. D&D is not an accurate template, though it obviously informs your opinions on the subject.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #253 on: June 07, 2014, 07:51:40 PM »
What informs my opinions on this subject is Zun's work. And Zun clearly states that Remilia and Suika are not the same kind of being.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #254 on: June 07, 2014, 07:52:52 PM »
What informs my opinions on this subject is Zun's work. And Zun clearly states that Remilia and Suika are not the same kind of being.

Cats are mammals. Humans are mammals. Humans and cats are not the same thing.

Thus, vampires can be devils, and oni can be devils, without vampire and oni being the same thing.

A=C, B=C, but A=/=B (if A is true, C is true; if B is true, C is true; but if A is true, B doesn't need to be true)

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #255 on: June 07, 2014, 07:59:00 PM »
Os, this isn't a real problem. :p

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #256 on: June 07, 2014, 07:59:48 PM »
Math proves nothing if you start by false premises. Zun's demons have no relation to Zun's devils, so you can't pull out of nowhere that onis are something that they're never mentioned as being.

Well, you could grasp at straws and claim that they may share some characters, but that's as absurd as claiming that a cat and Catarina the great are the same thing because they both start with the same letters. There's a lot more words out there than Japanese characters, so different terms are bound to share equal characters.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #257 on: June 07, 2014, 08:08:22 PM »
To be totally fair, every race except Humans in Danmaku Yuugi can easily fall under the category of Youkai, but they is also it's own race.

Regardless, it's not an important facet. It's a fan-made work, of course other fans may not agree entirely with their ideas just like how some of us don't agree entirely with some of your Touhou inspired ideas.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #258 on: June 07, 2014, 08:21:48 PM »
Er, no; you're the one claiming there's 'no relation', and that oni = demon but oni =/= devil. Again, you're claiming that devil =/= demon in English (answer: they do, according to the OED) and that this is an accurate summation of a translation. What most likely happened is that whoever wrote that noticed that the kanji for 'oni' is in vampire, and that vampires are described as devils anyway, and concluded that vampire = devil, oni = devil, therefore both are a type of devil/demon. All without actually being wrong, as ZUN is enormously vague.

Anyway, all this Vampire speak...



Vampire

A strange creature, new to Gensokyo, that requires blood to survive--yet can channel this blood into boosting its own capabilities, and is aptly suited to combat thriving upon said blood.

(click to show/hide)



Because the Vampire class is annoying.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Sugestions
« Reply #259 on: June 07, 2014, 08:24:48 PM »
I don''t understand the wording for how that Special works at all.......