Author Topic: Character Generation and Discussion  (Read 24166 times)

Offline Drammor

  • Honorary Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 583
  • Seer of Void
    • View Profile
Character Generation and Discussion
« on: July 08, 2017, 02:28:11 PM »
Hello and welcome to The Exiled City! This is a 7 out of 10 hardness game about a faith-based expeditionary force sent to investigate the demons and undead recently being produced by the "Harrow Gate," a magical gateway in the side of a mountain that leads to an ancient city that should be all but uninhabited.

    Character Generation
    • Starting Level: 9
    • Stat Generation: 32-point buy.
    • Wealth: Normal wealth by level; full crafting is allowed and supported. Players cannot spend more than 1/2 their starting wealth on a single item.
    • Classes: Gestalt for PCs and cohorts. Base character classes will be chosen from a pair of lists, as seen below: one choice from list A, and one choice from list B.
      Racial hit dice, level adjustment and prestige classes may fill up to one side of the gestalt. Prestige classes are subject to approval, but generally allowed. ACFs are acceptable. Non-gestalt tier 4-6 and no prcs for followers.
      Class list A: Bard, Crusader, Fighter, Hexblade, Incarnate, Marshal, Ranger, Spellthief, Swordsage and Totemist
      Class list B: Barbarian, Binder, Dread Necromancer, Factotum, Paladin, Rogue, Shadowcaster, Warblade, Warlock and Warmage
    • Races: No races with LA greater than +2, before buy-off. Each character may have up to 1 minor bloodline, 1 intermediate bloodline or 1 major bloodline. Instead of coming with effective level, these will come with XP penalties of -10%, -15% and -20%, respectively.
    • Templates: Unseelie Fey is banned, no templates greater than LA +1, before buy-off.
    • Hit Points: Max at 1st level, average per level, rounded down.
    • Alignment: No alignments. All references to alignment will be ignored, alignment subtypes will be removed, and alignment-dependent mechanics will also be removed or ignored.
    • Religion: All characters in the party must serve the same church on a more-than-nominal basis. Following the same deity is not strictly required, but would probably make following this rule easier.
    • Organizations: Allowed.
    • Feats: Characters may ignore the regional requirements of Regional feats, but not their racial requirements. Wild Cohort, Leadership, Undead Leadership or similar feats are recommended, and will not be provided automatically, despite the nature of the campaign.
    • Leadership: Your leadership score will not be capped at 25, use the epic leadership table if your score would allow for it. Cohorts get the elite stat array. Followers of 5th level and above will use the elite stat array, followers of 4th level and below will use the standard stat array.
    • Flaws/Traits: 2 flaws, 2 traits. No anti-feats.
    • Sources Allowed: WotC 3.5, 3.5 Dragon mag (please give source); some Pathfinder (ask). Homebrew with permission, but only one homebrew item per character (such as a specialized feat tree, feature system, prestige class, martial discipline, bloodline, set of uses for a skill, et cetera). Heroes of Battle is recommended reading material, as many encounters will consist of maneuvering and commanding troops or operating inside situations with them.
    • Optimization Level: Moderate. No broken/clearly overpowered combinations, infinite loops or use of Pazuzu will be tolerated. You'll want to be very good at what you do, but remember that the game emphasizes the team effort, not the individual. If you have a leadership score, you are encouraged (but not required) to design the general features of your army for yourself. This can include races, classes, unit compositions, favored strategies and standard equipment.
    • Difficulty: Attention will be paid to weather, food and water, traps, diseases, poisons and taint. The campaign is designed with a “Darkest Dungeon” feel. Encounters with tier 1 or 2 classes (and equivalent monsters) will be heavily limited. The monsters will be played to their strengths and be given equipment expected for their NPC level, but will not have the All-Seeing-AI, nor will they always be motivated to annihilate the players. It's not Tomb of Horrors hard, but each encounter will be calibrated to the party’s capabilities.
      Many monsters will be modified, bringing them in line with their intended CRs, removing their immunities to poison, and flying and teleportation effects will be reduced throughout the entire campaign.
    Play will include combat scaled per the Heroes of Battle supplement, with strategy and tactics, of the players and their army against forces of darkness including demons, the fey, the obyrith and the undead, as well as more "traditional" encounters featuring just the players and a few opponents at a time. Leadership is not only allowed, but comes highly recommended for this one. Despite this, the PCs will be isolated for most of the campaign, meaning that once a follower is dead, it will not be replaced. The Exiled City will have some elements of horror, including lurid descriptions and creepy stuff, but is not designed to be a horror campaign.

    Setting Info
    Zelescoria, your home city, is the greatest presence of Evening Glory in the world. It is located in a vale-like gap within forested buttes on all sides, between which are many winding, naturally occurring corridors that serve as a protective maze. Death and undeath are seen as natural parts of life in Zelescoria, and the city's population is just as much undead as they are alive. Water for the city is provided by a network of underground springs, and food for the living portion of the population is attained by farming and hunting in the forests above the city. Zelescoria is also the closest settlement in the world to a structure known as the Harrow Gate, on the side of a mountain called Phuaoake's Needle, which leads to an ancient and mysterious city.

    You can imagine your government's surprise when demons and unhallowed undead appeared on the outskirts of Zelescoria and began destroying the forest and crops. Scouts and divination suggest that the invaders emerged from Phuaoake's Needle, and based on the number of them which have appeared, your characters have been selected by the theocracy to investigate the cause of these incursions and deal with them as you see fit and as best protects Zelescoria.

    The Approach
    Possibly the shortest arc, herein we'll cover the generality of military logistics and travel from the outskirts of Zelescoria to Phuaoake's Needle. Low on story, but high on figuring how to play this game, what with its ambitious rules and all.

    Taking the Gate
    Prepare for your first real large scale battle, as Phuaoake's Needle is the location of the Harrow Gate. Without spoiling too much, this location is fortified by whoever is currently holding the Gate.

    The Exiled City
    The characters' first encounter and extended stay in the Exiled City, with plenty of opportunities to explore the environs and character climates.

    The War of Chaos
    Embroil yourselves in this ongoing war between demons and obyrith, hash out the truth of the danger, and determine for yourselves how to defend Zelescoria!

    « Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 02:26:02 PM by Drammor »
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 02:59:05 PM »
    Alright, so with that Diadem I have gotten my Leadership score to 19 which means yay, I get an Elite follower.

    Now I can get back to more important matters. Namely hashing out my potential menagerie.

    Truthfully, I can tame probably anything short of 20 HD. Might even be able to tame a wild Rex if I work it right. Just need to Charm it long enough to make it friendly. Same with a Hydra even. (Although there is that Fast Empathy feat in PF to use Wild Empathy as a Standard...)

    Anyone got any Beastmaster requests?
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

    Offline sirpercival

    • Epic Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 10855
    • you can't escape the miles
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 03:51:09 PM »
    Hey D, is Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313, pg 94) ok for a LA+1 template post-buyoff?

    EDIT: Also, are armies equipped out of our WBL?
    I am the assassin of productivity

    (member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

    It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #3 on: July 08, 2017, 04:03:02 PM »
    Hey D, is Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313, pg 94) ok for a LA+1 template post-buyoff?

    EDIT: Also, are armies equipped out of our WBL?

    If I recall right. We equip them from the NPC WBL chart. Although it is only for themselves, or the greater army. I'm deducting gold from each for example, to put towards their food and water.
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

    Offline Drammor

    • Honorary Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 583
    • Seer of Void
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #4 on: July 08, 2017, 04:50:56 PM »
    Hey D, is Half-Minotaur (Dragon 313, pg 94) ok for a LA+1 template post-buyoff?

    EDIT: Also, are armies equipped out of our WBL?

    Half mino is fine, and the army has its own WBL, as Rekmond said.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #5 on: July 08, 2017, 07:59:11 PM »
    question. Extraordinary Artisan seems to be intended to only discount Magical Items by the flavor text, but the actual wording says ANY item.

    Do I get the RAW benefit? Will make kitting out my troops easier.
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

    Offline Drammor

    • Honorary Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 583
    • Seer of Void
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #6 on: July 08, 2017, 10:18:43 PM »
    Yes, the RAW benefit :)
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #7 on: July 08, 2017, 11:25:49 PM »
    ...I only just remembered that our Cohorts were able to take Traits and Flaws.

    I have some cost calculation to redo.
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

    Offline Archon

    • Sr. Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 334
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 01:20:52 AM »
    My cohort is Dread Necromancer 8 // Hexblade 6/Drow LA, and leadership stacking seems to be fair game, at least a little bit, so can I take undead leadership for him?

    This will be mostly for the pool of animated dead purposes (and maybe a gravetouched ghoul as a cohort). But it might still be a edge.

    (Actually, with My choice of bloodline as my homebrew, do other bloodlines from the same source also count?
    Cause: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?204322-3-5e-Bloodline-Glamerkin-(PEACH)&p=11265857#post11265857 would be nice for my cohort)


    Offline Chemus

    • Legendary Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 1929
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #9 on: July 09, 2017, 01:28:48 AM »
    I'll now have to dust off my Spreadsheets and get some details back up. Again, my PC has one or two crafting Cohorts who can make items for pretty cheap. I don't recall if we were going to be able to use Ambrosia (from Distill Joy), but I was building as if we were...

    Using the custom item pricing, there can be some pretty useful, cheap items possible. Of course we have to run them by Drammor first.

    My PC was, so far, going to be... an Evolved Necropolitan Magic-Blooded Lesser Aasimar Paladin (of Slaughter)//Marshal/Ftr/LegendaryLeader, with 2 LA (1 each Draconic, and Evolved) not bought off, as that was costing full XP, with no extra gained back. (The template stacking was a peeve, as I recall)

    Sample Crafting Cohort build link.
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 01:48:19 AM by Chemus »
    Apathy is ...ah screw it.
    My Homebrew

    Offline Archon

    • Sr. Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 334
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #10 on: July 09, 2017, 01:46:34 AM »
    Can Followers craft items, and if so, what do they do about xp costs.

    and just to be sure, the Deep Imaskari's Spell clutch ability does not apply to spontaneous casting like the warmages?

    Edit: Also, healers have create food and water, which means that a we can craft food and water granting items. Which items work best?
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 02:04:33 AM by Archon »

    Offline ketaro

    • Epic Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 4241
    • I'm always new!
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #11 on: July 09, 2017, 01:54:24 AM »
    Oh I didn't notice this was ours.

    "LEADER FEATS
    This book introduces a new type of feat called leader feats.
    Leader feats augment or alter the effects of the Leadership feat
    (as presented on page 97 of the Player’s Handbook and described
    in more detail on page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Typically,
    a leader feat affects your cohort and/or your followers but
    has no effect on other allies.
     Since all leader feats include Leadership as a prerequisite,
    their presence in the game is subject to the DM’s approval. If the
    DM prefers not to include the Leadership feat in the campaign,
    then all feats of the leader type are similarly off limits.
     In addition to their listed benefits, each leader feat taken by a
    character improves his Leadership score by +1
    ."

    Bottom paragraph on page 96 of Heroes of Battle.

    So that counts Extra Followers, but does Might Makes Right count?


    Edit: Also, yes, Evening Glory worship.

    Also, somebody asked for a rundown on what we already have I forgot who....

    ketaro is playing a WAAAAAAGH horde. 99% Orc Barbarians.

    Edit2: My cohort has both Craft Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous if anyone wants to donate a flying monster mount to the horde  :love
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 02:03:36 AM by ketaro »

    Offline Archon

    • Sr. Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 334
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #12 on: July 09, 2017, 02:38:26 AM »
    Wow, everyone else has such simple armys. I kinda shot myself in the foot there - I have about 40 short builds to go through now. Anyone have a good NPC stat block template?

    Offline Drammor

    • Honorary Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 583
    • Seer of Void
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #13 on: July 09, 2017, 04:06:04 AM »
    My cohort is Dread Necromancer 8 // Hexblade 6/Drow LA, and leadership stacking seems to be fair game, at least a little bit, so can I take undead leadership for him?

    This will be mostly for the pool of animated dead purposes (and maybe a gravetouched ghoul as a cohort). But it might still be a edge.

    (Actually, with My choice of bloodline as my homebrew, do other bloodlines from the same source also count?
    Cause: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?204322-3-5e-Bloodline-Glamerkin-(PEACH)&p=11265857#post11265857 would be nice for my cohort)

    Your cohorts may have leadership, and their cohorts, too. Followers may not. I should warn you about Leadership stacking, though. The unit in possession of the Leadership becomes a lynchpin; if they die, all of their followers may be lost. You can try to recruit them into missing numbers of your own followers, but you're more likely to see splintering, strife and rebellion.

    Only PCs can have bloodlines. They are Special.

    Can Followers craft items, and if so, what do they do about xp costs.

    and just to be sure, the Deep Imaskari's Spell clutch ability does not apply to spontaneous casting like the warmages?

    Edit: Also, healers have create food and water, which means that a we can craft food and water granting items. Which items work best?

    Followers can craft items, and I suppose they'd use the same rules as cohorts, except that followers don't gain or lose levels when you do.

    Quote
    Cohorts are fixed at their maximum level and given an XP pool that puts them "halfway to their next level". They gain/lose a permanent level when you do. Their pool gains or loses XP as it is gained/spent but it doesn't affect their level.

    No, the deep Imaskari's Spell Clutch applies only to prepared spell slots.

    Oh I didn't notice this was ours.

    "LEADER FEATS
    This book introduces a new type of feat called leader feats.
    Leader feats augment or alter the effects of the Leadership feat
    (as presented on page 97 of the Player’s Handbook and described
    in more detail on page 106 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide). Typically,
    a leader feat affects your cohort and/or your followers but
    has no effect on other allies.
     Since all leader feats include Leadership as a prerequisite,
    their presence in the game is subject to the DM’s approval. If the
    DM prefers not to include the Leadership feat in the campaign,
    then all feats of the leader type are similarly off limits.
     In addition to their listed benefits, each leader feat taken by a
    character improves his Leadership score by +1
    ."

    Bottom paragraph on page 96 of Heroes of Battle.

    So that counts Extra Followers, but does Might Makes Right count?


    Edit: Also, yes, Evening Glory worship.

    Also, somebody asked for a rundown on what we already have I forgot who....

    ketaro is playing a WAAAAAAGH horde. 99% Orc Barbarians.

    Edit2: My cohort has both Craft Arms & Armor and Craft Wondrous if anyone wants to donate a flying monster mount to the horde  :love

    No, Might makes Right is not a [Leadership] feat.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> A POX UPON YOU ALL!
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, J, FOR STEALING THE PURITY OF NORNS.
    [20:32] <DonQuixote> YOU, DRAMMOR, FOR ENSNARING ME IN THIS FIENDISH PRISON.

    Offline ketaro

    • Epic Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 4241
    • I'm always new!
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #14 on: July 09, 2017, 06:06:18 AM »
    Fair enough considering it already adds a number rather than replacing one. ;)

    What is everyone's leadership scores at the moment, by the way? I feel like I keep seeing scores being tossed around in the mid to upper 30s and I'm sitting here barely able to scrape out an upper 20s while still making myself a decent combatant -_-'
    « Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 06:09:50 AM by ketaro »

    Offline Archon

    • Sr. Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 334
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #15 on: July 09, 2017, 09:03:45 AM »
    mine is the only high one that I know of - my bloodline gives me +HD again, which is why it is so high (currently 38). I also optimized pretty heavily for that, so I will be less useful in straight-up combat.

    Offline Vladeshi

    • Sr. Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 349
    • Feel free to ignore me.
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #16 on: July 09, 2017, 11:01:48 AM »
    Mine is also around 27 or so.
    The following explanation has been removed due to time constraints, character limits on posts, and the DC 30 Spellcraft checks to understand large portions of it.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #17 on: July 09, 2017, 11:09:07 AM »
    I am sitting at a nice solid 19 without Cha boosters (Which I'm not certain I want to purchase, I need more direct combat potential)

    As for food and water

    I recommend the Field Provisions Box.  With a provided Create Food and Water spell, I can craft an item that feeds 15 medium sized characters for 750 gold.  *712.5 GP after applying 5% trait discount

    50 gold apiece from their WBL isn't bad at all. *47.5 GP


    Honestly bunking them might be more pricey. Anyone make a custom item for a deployable version of Leomund's Billet?  5th level Conjuration spell, houses 40 troops....seems perfect for our needs. I could house my regulars in one and put the officers up in a Daern's Instant Tent.
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura

    Offline sirpercival

    • Epic Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 10855
    • you can't escape the miles
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #18 on: July 09, 2017, 11:47:15 AM »
    Dunno if I missed these discussions from the original thread - what factors are contributing to Leadership? (What are we doing about reputation stuff? Are there more modifiers in Heroes of Battle that I'm forgetting?)
    I am the assassin of productivity

    (member in good standing of the troll-feeders guild)

    It's begun — my things have overgrown the previous sig.

    Offline Rekmond

    • Full Member
    • **
    • Posts: 224
    • DM in Training
      • View Profile
    Re: Character Generation and Discussion
    « Reply #19 on: July 09, 2017, 12:00:49 PM »
    I haven't touched reputation, and the only mods from Heroes of Battle are the Leader feats....unless you use that Substitute Military Rank for your Cha mod for purpose of determining Leadership score.

    The others....Cha boosters, Might Makes Right to add Str to Leadership score as well...etc.
    I want to be born. To live. That is all I want. -Aura