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Handbooks & Resources => Handbook Discussion => Topic started by: Nanshork on April 03, 2012, 06:12:13 PM

Title: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 03, 2012, 06:12:13 PM
I've moved this important thread (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4369) over since it hadn't been ported yet.  Look at my lovely formatting!

If any new sources are somehow scrounged up let me know and I'll add them, the same with corrections to the list.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Maat Mons on April 04, 2012, 09:50:22 PM
For completeness, you should list geomancer (Complete Divine).  Its spell versatility ability allows you to use the casting stat of one class as the casting stat of another. 

Using pre tags is causing some of the text to go off the edge, at least for me.  I think an actual table would be best. 

War mage, the prestige class, is two words.  Warmage, the base class is one word.  For clarity, people often refer to the prestige class as war mage of Krynn. 

Several entries have question marks for page number or book. 
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 05, 2012, 01:52:21 AM
I'll stick Geomancer in.

I can't code tables worth anything, if you can code good looking tables I'll put them in.  I see the things going off the page and will fix those. 

I'll add edit in the information as well, the entire thread was just copy pasted from the old bg thread and then formatted.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 05, 2012, 03:54:45 AM
Adjusted all of the formatting, it should look much better now.  I also added editions and proper source citing to some of the entries that were missing them.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Maat Mons on April 05, 2012, 06:45:26 PM
I can't code tables worth anything, if you can code good looking tables I'll put them in.

Here's an attempt. 

Strength
(click to show/hide)

Dexterity
(click to show/hide)

Constitution
(click to show/hide)

Intelligence
(click to show/hide)

Wisdom
(click to show/hide)

Charisma
(click to show/hide)

Any
(click to show/hide)

Other
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 06, 2012, 01:54:37 AM
Those tables look great.  I corrected some more formatting errors I found (there are just too many lines for me to fix them all the first time apparently) and then edited them in. 

Much appreciated!   :love
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on April 06, 2012, 02:10:46 PM
the bold option seems to be appropriate for this thread.

Quote
dragon mag 354, p54: feat (1st level only): wedded to history - allows you to pick one of the listed backgrounds, as follows:
  • apostle of the forgotten: 1/d, swift, effect of augury spell - limited to 1min in the future, CL = char lvl, +1 init bonus.
  • elder of legend: +3 bluff, intimidate, diplomacy with those who know who/what you are.
  • golden ager: UMD always class skill, can use untrained, mishap on 15+ instead of 10+.
  • hand of prophecy: 1/d +2 attack and on skill checks versus one opponent.
  • survivor: replace fort or ref with will. cumulative -1 to will after each time you use this.
  • throwback: immune to type specific effects. (favored enemy, bane effects, charm, etc...)
  • wanderer: use trained-only skills even w/o ranks, @ -2 penalty. communicate in any known language, int check, dc15.


supplemental feats
  • ancestor (prereq= wedded to history, elder of legend background): members of your race auto shift one step closer to helpful, +2 on diplomacy checks, own race.
  • master's voice (prereq= wedded to history, golden ager background, umd 9 ranks): impersonate master/creator of unintelligent undead or construct. (umd check for impersonate= dc20+hd of creature); (umd check for command= dc10+hd of creature) special: only works if actual master is not around.
  • packrat (prereq= wedded to history, wanderer background, appraise 1 rank): carry max 10gp/lvl unspecified items, but specified weight, can become any equip desired within gp and weight limit. must shop for 8 hours to replenish.
  • pawn in the great game (prereq= wedded to history, hand of prophecy background, diehard, endurance): when fail vs death attack, or go from positive to negative hit points, can make fort save vs dc25-level. success=-2 str & con, hp=1.
  • self medicating (prereq= wedded to history, survivor background): heal is always class skill. can give self long-term care. 1/d, heal 1d4+int mod (min 1hp). takes 1min. uninterrupted, and 1 use of healing kit.
  • shuffled interior (prereq= wedded to history, throwback background, great fortitude): gain 25% crit/sneak attack negation.
  • voice of bitter experience (prereq= wedded to history, apostle of the lost background, bluff 1 rank): bluff vs sense motive against divine caster about to cast. win=opponent shaken for encounter, win by 5+=opponent frightened for 1rnd. mind affecting, language dependent.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 06, 2012, 11:55:51 PM
The Vampire template class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a) online has a crazy way of replacing Con. Specifically, it uses Cha for everything that Con was used for before (well, all "quantities", but that's darn near everything). Takes 8 levels to get it, though.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 07, 2012, 01:26:48 AM
Actually it takes seven levels.   :p

Good find though, I'll add it.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: The_Laughing_Man on April 07, 2012, 06:30:33 AM
Great job, Nanshork!

Could you correct one misspelling while you are at it:
Montebank -> Mountebank

Btw, did you crosscheck that you have all the stuff from here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732)?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: CattyNebulart on April 07, 2012, 03:14:32 PM
One thing is still missing is that cat's and many other (usually cat based) creatures can use dex for jump and climb checks.

This can be exploited through antromorphic animals, or by a familiar.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: sirpercival on April 07, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
Jungle kobolds add their Dexterity modifier to Climb checks instead of their Strength modifier.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 07, 2012, 05:28:31 PM
@The_Laughing Man: There were quite a few misspellings in the original thread, it doesn't surprise me that I didn't catch them all.  Crosschecking has now been done.

@Catty: Added Anthropomorphic Cat

@sirpercival: Added Jungle Kobolds
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on April 08, 2012, 01:00:21 AM
was the wedded to history: survivor suggestion helpful? getting to use will in place of all saves is effectively replacing con and dex with wis (or cha) for saves.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 08, 2012, 02:01:47 AM
was the wedded to history: survivor suggestion helpful? getting to use will in place of all saves is effectively replacing con and dex with wis (or cha) for saves.

I'm on the fence about it.  It doesn't actually let you use Wis for your Fortitude and Reflex saves, and there are so many things that can affect those saves besides the stat (such as the base save).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ryu Hayabusa on April 08, 2012, 09:37:15 AM
Small point: For Champion of Gwynharwyf's entry (cha to saves), you have Gwynharwyf totally misspelled.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on April 08, 2012, 10:03:14 AM
was the wedded to history: survivor suggestion helpful? getting to use will in place of all saves is effectively replacing con and dex with wis (or cha) for saves.

I'm on the fence about it.  It doesn't actually let you use Wis for your Fortitude and Reflex saves, and there are so many things that can affect those saves besides the stat (such as the base save).
The Constitution section lists the various maneuvers that replace Fort/Ref/Will/Damage with Concentration checks, so if nothing else, there's precedent.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Halinn on April 08, 2012, 10:30:24 AM
Small point: For Champion of Gwynharwyf's entry (cha to saves), you have Gwynharwyf totally misspelled.
I'm fairly sure it's spelled Gwynharfarlarwhatevsyf. Or something close to that.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on April 08, 2012, 10:42:06 AM
Small point: For Champion of Gwynharwyf's entry (cha to saves), you have Gwynharwyf totally misspelled.
I'm fairly sure it's spelled Gwynharfarlarwhatevsyf. Or something close to that.
I just call her Ginny.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 08, 2012, 04:07:32 PM
I told you there were misspellings all over!  Look, I fixed it.   :p


@Agita: Good point, I forgot about those.  Wedded to History added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on April 10, 2012, 05:44:29 PM
For the CHA portion,  the Salt Mummy (MMIII) gets CHA to HP, like the Dry Lich.  It is 12 HD, +6 LA.

Also, the Ordained Champion PrC (Complete Champion) gets a smite ability that can be used on anything, regardless of alignment.  So CHA to hit by burning a turn undead (or rebuke) as a swift action.  Very handy.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 10, 2012, 11:57:22 PM
For the CHA portion,  the Salt Mummy (MMIII) gets CHA to HP, like the Dry Lich.  It is 12 HD, +6 LA.

I'm going to just leave all monsters with Unholy Toughness out of it minus the Dry Lich since that can be attained by a PrC.

Quote
Also, the Ordained Champion PrC (Complete Champion) gets a smite ability that can be used on anything, regardless of alignment.  So CHA to hit by burning a turn undead (or rebuke) as a swift action.  Very handy.

Adding.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 11, 2012, 09:25:39 AM
Incoming typos and nitpicking.

Under Charisma - Classes:
Knight of the Sacred Seal is listed as "Knight o t Sacred Seal".
Marshal is listed as "Marshall".
Platinum Knight 5's description should pluralize the word "save".
Soldier of Light is missing the level is grants Cha to saves at. Also, I'm at work so I can't check, but I think Deities an Demigods shouldn't have a space between "Demi" and "gods".
The "charisma" in Tattooed Monk 5's description should be capitalized.

Charisma - Feats:
The "cha" in Avenging Strike's description and the "con" in Beauty's Bounty's description should be capitalized.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 11, 2012, 12:06:55 PM
Fine, fine.   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on April 11, 2012, 12:51:13 PM
I'm going to just leave all monsters with Unholy Toughness out of it minus the Dry Lich since that can be attained by a PrC.
Fair enough.  Perhaps a special entry just for Unholy Toughness then, and a note or whatnot indicating which (playable) monsters actually provide it?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 11, 2012, 01:15:11 PM
I'm going to just leave all monsters with Unholy Toughness out of it minus the Dry Lich since that can be attained by a PrC.
Fair enough.  Perhaps a special entry just for Unholy Toughness then, and a note or whatnot indicating which (playable) monsters actually provide it?

Unholy Toughness does have an entry.   :p
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on April 11, 2012, 01:57:21 PM
 :banghead  Carry on then.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ryu Hayabusa on April 14, 2012, 02:07:33 AM
Under Wisdom, the sources for Mortal Hunter and Moon Warded Ranger are mixed up. Moon Warded Ranger is the Dragon Magazine one, and Mortal Hunter is from BoVD.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 14, 2012, 03:43:24 AM
Fixed.   :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Tr011 on April 22, 2012, 12:47:32 PM
Escalation Mage 1: Charisma to HP
Wendigo: Charisma to AC
Phantom Template (not Incorporeal Subtype): Charisma to AC
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 22, 2012, 02:44:22 PM
Escalation Mage 1: Charisma to HP
Wendigo: Charisma to AC
Phantom Template (not Incorporeal Subtype): Charisma to AC

Sources?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ryu Hayabusa on April 23, 2012, 12:20:44 AM
Faiths of Eberron, Fiend Folio and Monster Manual 5, respectively.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Endarire on June 02, 2012, 02:18:51 AM
May we also get the sections for just Pathfinder material, for the bonuses (AC, initiative, etc.), and whatever else is in the latest X to Y (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125732) thread?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 02, 2012, 10:09:59 AM
Oh fine, it will take me awhile though and I'm not integrating Pathfinder into the regular sections.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 12, 2012, 08:45:41 PM
Pathfinder has been added.

Sorry that took so long, I kind of forgot about it.   :blush
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: veekie on July 14, 2012, 07:45:06 AM
Smith Evil?

Also, should the Oracle abilities be specified? I think some of them are mutually exclusive, which the guide doesn't make apparent.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on July 14, 2012, 08:07:02 AM
Smith Evil?

Also, should the Oracle abilities be specified? I think some of them are mutually exclusive, which the guide doesn't make apparent.
All of them are mutually exclusive, so yes, they should.
Also, the Wis section could use the Conversion Inquisition (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo---inquisitor-archetypes/inquisitions/conversion-inquisition).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 14, 2012, 12:48:04 PM
Smith Evil?

Also, should the Oracle abilities be specified? I think some of them are mutually exclusive, which the guide doesn't make apparent.

I'll fix that.  :blush


All of my pathfinder stuff was ported exactly from the thread Endarire linked.  If you'll tell me which Oracle abilities are from where I'll add that information. 

Conversion Inquisition added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on July 14, 2012, 01:38:35 PM
All of my pathfinder stuff was ported exactly from the thread Endarire linked.  If you'll tell me which Oracle abilities are from where I'll add that information. 
Nature mystery, Nature's Whispers revelation adds Cha to AC and CMD in place of Dex. Lore mystery, Sidestep Secret revelation adds Cha to AC and Reflex save in place of Dex. Lore mystery, Lore Keeper revelation adds Cha to Knowledge checks in place of Int.
Heavens mystery, Guiding Star revelation also lets you add your Cha to all Wis-based ability and skill checks, in addition to your Wis modifier.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 14, 2012, 01:50:27 PM
Added, thank you.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on July 14, 2012, 03:13:10 PM
You got two of them mixed up. The AC/CMD one is listed as Heavens, Sidestep Secret, while the Wis checks one is listed as Nature, Guiding Star.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 14, 2012, 06:07:56 PM
I hate coding these tables.   :banghead

Fixed again.  Did I mess anything else up or are we good now?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on July 14, 2012, 06:28:48 PM
Broken code on the Paladin 2 ability under Cha (presumably, Divine Grace).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 14, 2012, 06:57:01 PM
Picky picky.   :p

Fixed.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on July 14, 2012, 07:00:50 PM
You used a font I don't like
Looks fine now.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 14, 2012, 10:06:50 PM
You used a font I don't like
Looks fine now.

 :lmao
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Cagemarrow on August 07, 2012, 04:49:46 PM
Is carrying capacity ever listed as a str check anywhere? It'd be nice for a factotum build I'm working on. Shapesand is heavy.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on August 07, 2012, 04:52:17 PM
Nope, it isn't a check.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Cagemarrow on August 08, 2012, 08:12:22 AM
That's what I thought but I figured I'd ask since there's people on here that know a lot more of the little details than I do.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on August 08, 2012, 08:42:37 AM
Basically, to be a Strength check, it has to fulfill two conditions:
One, it must be a d20 roll.
Two, it must be based (only) on your Strength modifier (plus miscellaneous bonuses).
Or, more strictly, it must be specifically called out as a Strength check (this would be the RAW, the two conditions listed before are useful for the mythic "common sense houserules").
Carrying capacity fulfills none of these (it's based on your full Strength score, not your modifier).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on August 08, 2012, 02:24:36 PM
side question... regarding your description, how do you recommend one to tell if the non-existent someone with whom one is conversing is not actually the one who exists and that ones' self is the one who does not exist?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: sirpercival on August 08, 2012, 02:28:29 PM
side question... regarding your description, how do you recommend one to tell if the non-existent someone with whom one is conversing is not actually the one who exists and that ones' self is the one who does not exist?

Start drinking until the tequila monster shows up, and ask him.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on August 08, 2012, 02:33:47 PM
heh. alcohol is not a recourse available to me. but thanks for trying. ^^ any other suggestions?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Agita on August 08, 2012, 02:40:09 PM
heh. alcohol is not a recourse available to me. but thanks for trying. ^^ any other suggestions?
Use Cartesian logic and declare that you think, therefore you must exist, while the existence of your opposite is uncertain.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on August 08, 2012, 02:55:28 PM
yet by the logic of the period of the "hundred schools of thought" as typified by the comments of chuang cho (zhuang zhou):

Quote
Once upon a time, I, Chuang Chou, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of my happiness as a butterfly, unaware that I was Chou. Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly, dreaming I am a man.
Quote
    * How do I know that enjoying life is not a delusion? How do I know that in hating death we are not like people who got lost in early childhood and do not know the way home? Lady Li was the child of a border guard in Ai. When first captured by the state of Jin, she wept so much her clothes were soaked. But after she entered the palace, shared the king's bed, and dined on the finest meats, she regretted her tears. How do I know that the dead do not regret their previous longing for life? One who dreams of drinking wine may in the morning weep; one who dreams weeping may in the morning go out to hunt. During our dreams we do not know we are dreaming. We may even dream of interpreting a dream. Only on waking do we know it was a dream. Only after the great awakening will we realize that this is the great dream. And yet fools think they are awake, presuming to know that they are rulers or herdsmen. How dense! You and Confucius are both dreaming, and I who say you are a dream am also a dream. Such is my tale. It will probably be called preposterous, but after ten thousand generations there may be a great sage who will be able to explain it, a trivial interval equivalent to the passage from morning to night.



...cartesian logic cannot answer the question of dreaming that one is thinking. After all:


Quote
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find someone who's forgotten words so I can have a word with him?...
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on August 08, 2012, 03:30:39 PM
and back on topic: the Master of the Unseen Hand needs to be added to the Other and/or CHA section of the handbook, as it allows not only the use of CHA to Telekinesis instead of INT, it also allows Psionics to benefit from the class abilities due to how it is worded.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 08, 2012, 04:13:21 PM
and back on topic: the Master of the Unseen Hand needs to be added to the Other and/or CHA section of the handbook, as it allows not only the use of CHA to Telekinesis instead of INT, it also allows Psionics to benefit from the class abilities due to how it is worded.

Added to Other because it can be Int or Cha.
I'm not putting the psionics benefit because it is beyond the scope of this guide, but good catch anyway.

Also, thanks for getting back on topic.   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: estradus on September 11, 2012, 01:40:36 PM
To what extent are weird 3rd party books allowed in this? I've got a few...

The Ceptu race in Oathbound: Realms of the Forge can use int for their attack and damage rolls with melee weapons instead of strength, though can use charisma with weapon finesse. (they use a weird extremely simple telekinesis and thus hold melee weapons with their mind). I have to talk about this book whenever I get a chance because anything that considers a race of giant floating telekinetic jellyfish to be a normal player race (listed under the races chapter, only has +1 la, etc...) needs more love then its getting. There is also a pathfinder edition of this book, so the race can be added to that list as well.

In the Warcraft Rpg - Horde Guide there is a pair of feats for undead: Mind Over Matter allows undead to add their charisma to their hit points in place of constitution, and a sequel feat named Mental Stamina lets them use charisma for everything that they would normally use con, including fort saves, barbarian rages, breath weapon dcs, etc.

In the D20 modern rpg, the Int hero base class can add their int to attack rolls in place of strength or dex against one opponent for the rest of combat if they make a dc 15 int check (minimum possible level to get this is 3) and the feild scientist presteige class can, at first level, add their int bonus to ac, though they loose it if they would be denied dexterity.

The most questionable set of sources I have is the varied "Complete" guides that Goodman Games have produced; with rules like "drow liches have d20 hit dice" and "beholders get along quite well, building empires of 800 different specialty beholders to take over the world with" so of all my sources these are the ones that shouldn't be included in probably any list, but in their guide to fey they have a series of races and classes intended to be made into any basic fey from like the monster manual. To this end, there are a couple of feats (can only be taken by fey) meant to replicate the abilities of like nymphs and stuff; Unearthly Grace adds their charisma as a bonus to all saves, while Unearthly Luck grants it as a bonus to armor class.

This is just a "abilities I remember off the top of my head" list, but I can do a thourough search of my sources if theres any interest in this at all; I'm sure this list will be more useful and fun to produce then my last couple lists, which include "all outsiders ranked by challenge rating" and "every advanced material for armor/weapons" (both of which are a little outdated at the moment, but I could upload if anyone wanted them and could tell me where would be a good place to do such a thing.)

Edit: I don't have access to my copy of Oathbound at the moment and I only have the srd for the d20 rulebooks so I don't have page numbers for those. The ones regarding undead and charisma are in the Horde Player's Guide, both on page 34; and even though I shouldn't be acknowledging its existence the last ones I mentioned (the ones for fey) are page 45 in The Complete Guide to Fey.

Also, Masters of the Wild, a proper, not 3rd party dnd book has a variant on page 18 for letting barbarians use strength on intimidate checks.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Maat Mons on September 11, 2012, 03:02:46 PM
I'm sure this list will be more useful and fun to produce then my last couple lists, which include "all outsiders ranked by challenge rating" and "every advanced material for armor/weapons" (both of which are a little outdated at the moment, but I could upload if anyone wanted them and could tell me where would be a good place to do such a thing.)

I'd be interested in a special material list.  This (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19569550/Special_Materials_Index) is currently the best link I have for that.  I'm a fan of putting such lists in the handbook section. 

Also, Masters of the Wild, a proper, not 3rd party dnd book has a variant on page 18 for letting barbarians use strength on intimidate checks.

Which reminds me, dread tyranny (Races of Destiny, p154) adds strength to intimidate on top of charisma. 
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 11, 2012, 03:36:43 PM
I'm including no third-party material.  I'm on the fence about unupdated 3.0.

I'll get Dread Tyranny in when I get home from work.   :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Mithril Leaf on September 11, 2012, 04:01:22 PM
I'm including no third-party material.  I'm on the fence about unupdated 3.0.

I'll get Dread Tyranny in when I get home from work.   :)

What's your feeling on 2nd party stuff like Dragonlance stuff beyond the Campaign Setting?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 11, 2012, 05:30:57 PM
I'm including no third-party material.  I'm on the fence about unupdated 3.0.

I'll get Dread Tyranny in when I get home from work.   :)

What's your feeling on 2nd party stuff like Dragonlance stuff beyond the Campaign Setting?

Hmmm, I'm on the fence about that too.

I just realized I already have some 3.0 stuff in the guide (Savage Species being a prime example).  If it is unupdated I'll put it in. 

For 2nd party I'd like some input from other people.  I don't have anything against Dragonlance, but I don't know just how much might pour in if I open that door because I don't know what else counts as 2nd party.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: sirpercival on September 11, 2012, 05:35:50 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 11, 2012, 05:44:38 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Mithril Leaf on September 11, 2012, 06:01:04 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 11, 2012, 07:47:29 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on September 15, 2012, 02:09:38 AM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.

they are still work in progress. i've done a smidgen of editing for them, so it still has a way to go, despite having released official product.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 15, 2012, 12:22:03 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.

they are still work in progress. i've done a smidgen of editing for them, so it still has a way to go, despite having released official product.

Except that they're never going to work on their 3.5 stuff again, they came out and said so.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on September 16, 2012, 01:43:06 AM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.

they are still work in progress. i've done a smidgen of editing for them, so it still has a way to go, despite having released official product.

Except that they're never going to work on their 3.5 stuff again, they came out and said so.

ah, so? link, please?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 16, 2012, 11:25:40 AM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.

they are still work in progress. i've done a smidgen of editing for them, so it still has a way to go, despite having released official product.

Except that they're never going to work on their 3.5 stuff again, they came out and said so.

ah, so? link, please?

The closest to officially declaring it I've ever seen is here (http://arena.athas.org/forums/ds-3/topics/athas-org-and-ds-3-future#post_2916).  There's also the fact that no updates to it have been posted since October of 2008.

I'm not adding Athas.org material. 
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Mithril Leaf on September 16, 2012, 12:23:58 PM
2nd party is officially licensed stuff.  So, for Dragonlance it's stuff like Age of Mortals, Bestiary of Krynn, etc.  You'll also get athas.org, the Spelljammer stuff, planescape stuff, things like that.

Yeah, but how many books is that?   :P

I'm fairly certain it's the designation for all Dragon and Dungeon Magazine content.

Even if it is I am not going to add every 2nd party publication.  Athas.org is right out for one, they couldn't even edit properly.

they are still work in progress. i've done a smidgen of editing for them, so it still has a way to go, despite having released official product.

Except that they're never going to work on their 3.5 stuff again, they came out and said so.

ah, so? link, please?

The closest to officially declaring it I've ever seen is here (http://arena.athas.org/forums/ds-3/topics/athas-org-and-ds-3-future#post_2916).  There's also the fact that no updates to it have been posted since October of 2008.

I'm not adding Athas.org material.

How about http://www.planewalker.com/ (http://www.planewalker.com/)? It's a bit better.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 16, 2012, 01:54:37 PM
That isn't even officially licensed...

How about this, I'll accept all Dragonlance stuff, those are officially licensed printed books.

New Rule: If it isn't in a printed book (or magazine in the case of Dragon) I'm not putting it in here.  I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material, I have seen games that allow Dragonlance and Dragon material.  If there are other sources that I'm missing that are printed and are also officially licensed, let me know.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: betrayor on September 16, 2012, 02:00:10 PM
That isn't even officially licensed...

How about this, I'll accept all Dragonlance stuff, those are officially licensed printed books.

New Rule: If it isn't in a printed book (or magazine in the case of Dragon) I'm not putting it in here.  I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material, I have seen games that allow Dragonlance and Dragon material.  If there are other sources that I'm missing that are printed and are also officially licensed, let me know.
What about the Kingdoms of Kalamar line?
They were licenced by Wotc and they are printed.....
Also the Diablo 2 campaign setting which was also published by wotc.....
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 16, 2012, 03:01:50 PM
That isn't even officially licensed...

How about this, I'll accept all Dragonlance stuff, those are officially licensed printed books.

New Rule: If it isn't in a printed book (or magazine in the case of Dragon) I'm not putting it in here.  I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material, I have seen games that allow Dragonlance and Dragon material.  If there are other sources that I'm missing that are printed and are also officially licensed, let me know.
What about the Kingdoms of Kalamar line?
They were licenced by Wotc and they are printed.....
Also the Diablo 2 campaign setting which was also published by wotc.....

See, this is why I wanted to avoid second party....
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: betrayor on September 16, 2012, 03:04:32 PM
That isn't even officially licensed...

How about this, I'll accept all Dragonlance stuff, those are officially licensed printed books.

New Rule: If it isn't in a printed book (or magazine in the case of Dragon) I'm not putting it in here.  I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material, I have seen games that allow Dragonlance and Dragon material.  If there are other sources that I'm missing that are printed and are also officially licensed, let me know.
What about the Kingdoms of Kalamar line?
They were licenced by Wotc and they are printed.....
Also the Diablo 2 campaign setting which was also published by wotc.....

See, this is why I wanted to avoid second party....
Funny things is that the Diablo 2 thing is first Party....
It was written and published by wotc and it even has D&d Supplenent on the cover....

Kingdoms of Calamar has the same legitimacy as Dragonlance......
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 16, 2012, 03:09:39 PM
I'm not adding Diablo 2 or Kingdoms of Kalamar.  I believe that those go beyond the scope of this project.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: betrayor on September 16, 2012, 03:13:15 PM
I'm not adding Diablo 2 or Kingdoms of Kalamar.  I believe that those go beyond the scope of this project.
I hope that you din't misunderstood me....
I never said that you should add them....
I just stated the status of these books......

Honestly I don't think that these books have anything that it is worth to add.....
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 16, 2012, 03:17:03 PM
The status of those books is why I wanted to avoid second party.  I find almost all second party books to be niche and pointless unless playing in that actual campaign setting.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Mithril Leaf on September 17, 2012, 12:47:03 AM
The status of those books is why I wanted to avoid second party.  I find almost all second party books to be niche and pointless unless playing in that actual campaign setting.

How about Dungeon Magazine?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 17, 2012, 11:55:48 AM
The status of those books is why I wanted to avoid second party.  I find almost all second party books to be niche and pointless unless playing in that actual campaign setting.

How about Dungeon Magazine?

I've already got Dragon, I see no problem with adding Dungeon as well.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on September 18, 2012, 12:04:04 PM
I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material...
you have not been looking hard enough; all of my games, online or in person, allow all wotc recognized official material, which includes all the designated official websites and the various publications.

as do several games i participate in as a player.

while we may disagree as to what we want to bother to include in a particular project / thread, what is official is pretty cut and dry. i have a thread attempting to detail it around here somewhere, which has gotten bogged down with time constraints and the sheer mass of what is actually considered official. =P


*edit: i should think that wotc's definition of official is the only one that counts or matters, regardless of whom else may be asked, or might have an opinion.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 18, 2012, 12:12:32 PM
I've never seen a game that allows Athas.org material...
you have not been looking hard enough; all of my games, online or in person, allow all wotc recognized official material, which includes all the designated official websites and the various publications.

as do several games i participate in as a player.

while we may disagree as to what we want to bother to include in a particular project / thread, what is official is pretty cut and dry. i have a thread attempting to detail it around here somewhere, which has gotten bogged down with time constraints and the sheer mass of what is actually considered official. =P

Official has different connotations depending on who you ask.  To some people, official is anything with a WotC logo.  To others it is only things printed to WotC itself, and everything else is just stuff recognized by WotC but not actually official 3.5, just material compatible with it. 

But yeah, that's enough of that in this thread.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Maat Mons on October 11, 2012, 03:05:22 AM
For the Pathfinder section, the undead type (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/creature-types#TOC-Undead) changes many con-based things to cha. 

Quote
Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution(such as when calculating a breath weapon’s DC).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ryu Hayabusa on March 12, 2013, 11:28:31 AM
From Dragon 349, page 92:

Quote
Fearsome Gaze

Your merest glance can break a man's will to fight.

Level: 6th.

Replaces: If you choose this ability, you do not gain the indomitable will ability and your trap sense ability is reduced by 1.

Benefit: You gain a +4 bonus on Intimidate checks and can use Strength instead of Charisma as your key ability for Intimidate. You and your target must be within 60 feet and must be able to see one another.

Nice to see another way to apply strength to something, it's far too rare.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 12, 2013, 03:14:59 PM
Added and did some formatting editing while I was at it.   :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ryu Hayabusa on March 12, 2013, 08:41:21 PM
You mixed up the sources for Dread Tyranny and Fearsome Gaze, by the way.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 12, 2013, 11:10:44 PM
So I did...

That's what I get for just copying the Dread Tyranny line and pasting it right under itself to make the change.  Fixed now.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on June 25, 2013, 04:20:20 PM
A few more Pathfinder updates:
Scarred Witch Doctor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc) (ARG) archetype lets a Witch use constitution as primary casting stat instead of intelligence. Also enables ludicrous DCs with con buffs.

Wisdom in the Flesh (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/wisdom-in-the-flesh-god-of-perfection) trait (APG - if you're using traits, you're using APG) allows you to pick one str/dex/con skill (I know, con-based skills don't exist.) and add it as a class skill, using your wisdom modifier instead.

The Flexing Arm (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/the-flexing-arm-kurgess) trait (Faiths of Purity) allows you to use strength instead of dex for Escape Artist.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 25, 2013, 04:55:27 PM
Thanks, added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on June 25, 2013, 05:00:31 PM
Two more:

Guided (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapons-non-core/weapon-property---guided) weapon property (PF10: History of Ashes) allows you to attack using Wisdom score instead.

Also undead (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead) creatures use Charisma instead of con for hp and fort saves (but they autoimmune any fort save unless it can target objects or is "harmless"). The Knight of the Sepulcher (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/antipaladin/archetypes/paizo---antipaladin-archetypes/knight-of-the-sepulcher) archetype (Ultimate Combat) becomes a proper undead at level 20.

Also, you listed Wisdom in the Flesh as being from ISWG, but it's from the APG.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 25, 2013, 05:30:52 PM
Wisdom of the Flesh was a copy/paste error.

Guided and Undead added (the second is good to know) but I won't be adding any ways to become undead.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on June 28, 2013, 12:55:23 PM
Bestow Grace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/b/bestow-grace) spell (APG) will add a sacred bonus to all saves equal to the target's charisma modifier. (As written, it shouldn't be able to self-target, although spell-trigger or familiar cheese could go around that.)

Bestow Grace of the Champion (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/bestowGraceOfTheChampion.html#_bestow-grace-of-the-champion) spell (Ultimate Magic) will turn a lawful good target into a pseudo-paladin, complete with the "add charisma modifier as untyped bonus to all your saves." (Yup, Bestow Grace stacks with this.)

Osyluth Guile (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/osyluth-guile-combat) feat (Cheliax, Empire of Devils) will let a person who is fighting defensively add their charisma modifier as a dodge bonus vs one melee target within sight.

Focused Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/focused-shot-combat) feat (APG) lets a player burn a standard action to make a single attack with a (cross)bow and add their intelligence modifier to the damage roll. It also sucks if you're not playing low level campaign.

Belt of Mighty Hurling (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-of-mighty-hurling) item (Ultimate Equipment) lets you use Strength instead of Dex to make ranged attack rolls with thrown objects.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 30, 2013, 12:19:19 AM
Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on July 07, 2013, 02:07:22 PM
A few more traits from Ultimate Campaign (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/characterBackground/traits.html):

These ones replace an ability modifier with another:
Planar Savant - Use Cha to Knowledge (Planes)
Pragmatic Activator - Use Int to UMD.
Precise Treatment - Use Int to Heal & +1 trait bonus to Heal skill.
Bruising Intellect - Use Int to Intimidate & Intimidate is a class skill.

These ones add an ability modifier to your check:
Alchemical Intuition - 1/day free action: Add Cha mod to a single Craft (Alchemy) check. May be used retroactively to succeed a failed roll.
Wrecking Wrath - 1/day after landing a hit with a melee weapon: Add Str mod to dmg roll a 2nd time. This has 25% chance to break your weapon.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 07, 2013, 03:43:18 PM
All added.

Also, I really appreciate you digging through all of the traits.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on July 07, 2013, 04:56:38 PM
Thanks.

Knock Out (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/buccaneer#TOC-Knock-Out-Ex-) from Buccaneer Bard archetype (PPC: Pirates of the Inner Sea) lets a Bard add Cha bonus to attack rolls and class levels to nonlethal damage rolls until he lands nonlethal damage to the target (or uses Knock Out on new target). Meaning: a Buccaneer can Knock Out for Cha bonus to attack rolls & do lethal damage for as many attacks as he wants until he uses nonlethal (for the bonus damage) for the finisher.

Also, Smite Evil adds Cha mod (if any) as deflection AC bonus vs attacks made by the target.

BTW: Under int you listed Sage bloodline as Saga (typo) bloodline and you copy&pasted Pragmatic Activator instead of Precise Treatment for heal.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 07, 2013, 05:08:08 PM
From Planescape...

Addled Mind add 1/2 your insanity score to Wis score for Will saves.
Detached add 1/2 your Wis mod as luck to all saves.
Evaluating the Outcome add your Int mod to any check after you know it won't be successful .
Infiltrator add your Cha mod on Will saves to avoid detection.
Natural Alpha adds your Str mod to Intimidate, plus Str to Diplomacy v Sodkillers.
Brains over Brawn replace your Will base save w your Fort base save against mind-affecting.
Unhealthy Fixation add 1/2 your Wis mod for Wis skills.
Mountain's Stoicism add your Con mod to AC when fighting defensively.
The Stuff of Legends add your Str mod to Endurance feat checks. Add your Con mod to Str score for carrying capacity.
Swiftness of Flames add Cha to initiative to round after a crit.
Calculating Vigilance replace your Str w Int for bonus damage.

From Dark Sun....
Dissimulated add Int to Bluff.
Fearsome replace Cha w Str for Intimidate.
Inspiring Presence add Cha as morale to Will saves to all allies within 10ft.
Tikchak add Wis again to Survival checks when hunting.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 07, 2013, 05:41:34 PM
@Power: Added/corrected

@zook: IMO athas.org and the planescape website aren't "official" official and I don't add them.  I appreciate the thought though. :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on July 07, 2013, 06:13:43 PM
Shield Marshal 1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/shieldmarshal#TOC-Eye-for-Detail-Ex-) PrC (Paths of Prestige) - Add Int to Perception and Sense Motive.

Agent of the Grave 1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave#TOC-Unholy-Fortitude-Su-) PrC (AP45) - Use Cha for HP bonus for all new character levels (old levels unaffected), replaces Con.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 07, 2013, 06:27:08 PM
Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on July 07, 2013, 06:38:30 PM
Hellknight 1 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/hellknight#TOC-Smite-Chaos-Su-) PrC (Inner Sea World Guide) - Smite Chaos, does same as Smite Evil.
Agile Maneuvers (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/agile-maneuvers-combat) feat (Core) - Use Dex for CMB instead of Str
Rage Prophet 3 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/rage-prophet#TOC-Indomitable-Caster-Ex-) PrC (APG) - Add Con to Concentration Checks.
Rage Prophet 7 (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/n-r/rage-prophet#TOC-Ragecaster-Su-) PrC (APG) - Add Con to DCs if casting while raging.
Enlightened Philosopher 20 (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/oracle.html#_enlightened-philosopher-%28archetype%29) Oracle Archetype (Ultimate Magic) - Add Cha to all saves.
Monkey Style (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/ultimateCombatFeats.html#_monkey-style) feat (Ultimate Combat) - Add Wis to Acrobatics checks (also does other stuff)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 07, 2013, 08:11:55 PM
@zook: IMO athas.org and the planescape website aren't "official" official and I don't add them.  I appreciate the thought though. :)

they are officially licensed, so 2nd party. That's no different than Pathfinder
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on July 08, 2013, 12:04:08 AM
@zook: IMO athas.org and the planescape website aren't "official" official and I don't add them.  I appreciate the thought though. :)

they are officially licensed, so 2nd party. That's no different than Pathfinder

wizards says they are official. wotc is the final arbiter of what is official and what is not. people are welcome to have differing opinions, but "official" is what wotc says it is, period.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 08, 2013, 12:24:49 AM
There's quite a few 2nd party material.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on July 09, 2013, 10:31:53 AM
There's quite a few 2nd party material.

i know! when i made the handbook of official content, i thought i had most of it, but boy was i wrong. i'm still not done.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
nijineko and I already discussed this last September, including different perspectives on the word official.

Athas.org and the planescape website are not getting added to this project, I don't want any and all second party sources as that is way too much scope creep in my opinion.

If someone else wants to make a second party X stat to Y bonus thread I'll happily link it in the guide though just to make you people happy.   :p

Edit: Power I haven't forgotten you, I'll try to add those after I get off work.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 09, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
I understand totally, because you'd have to add Kalamar, and that's a big headache
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2013, 11:55:10 AM
I understand totally, because you'd have to add Kalamar, and that's a big headache

That's pretty much it, when I start allowing more it becomes harder for me to draw a line to stop at.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on July 09, 2013, 02:37:21 PM
I understand totally, because you'd have to add Kalamar, and that's a big headache

That's pretty much it, when I start allowing more it becomes harder for me to draw a line to stop at.

yup, i understand as well. i had this same discussion with a friend and co-player who allows all d20 content in the games he runs. =P i had to explain that i drew my line at whatever wotc says is official which is quite a lot of content when all is said and done. his response seemed to me to be something on the order of 'well, that's kinda silly, but okay if that's what you want'. ^^

he had a hard time understanding why i was being so "limiting & restrictive" when in the past we've gleefully used multiple game systems for our sessions and simply did the math to translate equivalent stats, effects, and damage (we had some pretty epic characters and stories using mix-n-match elements of whatever we wanted from Palladium, TSR, and SJG all in a single concept back in the day)

(and let me tell you from personal experience, taking gurps and rifts element-using characters into d&d yields system shattering breakage annihilation apocalypse on a level above and beyond what d&d provides in self-context. you know, reflecting upon it, it was kinda like playing synnibarr when you toss out and reroll any bad rolls. yes, i've actually played synnibarr.)

i confess that i'm not always happy with the amount of stuff that winds up being official and the content is highly variable in quality, but i figured that what the owner says is official was the firmest definition i was going to find. (and recently i've discovered things that should be there, but simply aren't, grrrrr.)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 09, 2013, 03:25:43 PM
To me, the consistency of 3rd party is sooo variable, most is horrible, while some is totally broken
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on July 09, 2013, 05:28:21 PM
To me, the consistency of 3rd party is sooo variable, most is horrible, while some is totally broken

yuppers. i have read an occasional good idea, but seriously, finding those few are such a pain.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: deuxhero on July 13, 2013, 02:07:37 AM
Oh look, Int to Diplomacy (persuasion only, no Gather Information) and bluff (lying only, no feint)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/student-of-philosophy
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 13, 2013, 11:36:39 AM
All of the ones Power mentioned have been added (sorry, I forgot about them).

Student of Philosophy has been added.

Formatting has been adjusted slightly and some things weren't in alphabetical order so that has been fixed too.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on October 01, 2013, 03:00:30 PM
You forgot to add Rage Prophet 7. Also, Kobold Confidence (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/kobold-confidence) (Kobolds of Golarion) lets a Kobold use int/wis/cha (pick one) to determine fortitude saves and max negative hp.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 01, 2013, 03:19:19 PM
Both added, Kobold Confidence is in the Other section since it can use multiple ability scores.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: sirpercival on December 02, 2013, 08:39:04 PM
Mindspy gets Cha to attacks and AC (up to your class level) vs creatures whose thoughts you're detecting.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 10, 2014, 08:23:52 PM
Could you update the links?  All of the links that started with http://www.wizards need to have the www replaced with archive so they'll work since things got moved around on their end.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 10, 2014, 09:17:38 PM
Could you update the links?  All of the links that started with http://www.wizards need to have the www replaced with archive so they'll work since things got moved around on their end.

The links should all be updated now.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 13, 2014, 04:10:15 PM
For the Pathfinder section:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder The Warder's 1st level Defensive Focus ability lets them use Int in place of Dex to determine the number of AoOs allowed per round from the Combat Reflexes feat.  The Warder also gains Int to CMD to defend against enemies using Acrobatis to avoid an AoO.

The Warder's 4th level Tactical Acumen ability allows them to use Int in place of Dex for Reflex saves and Initiative rolls.

Finally, the 19th level Born of Steel ability adds Int to AC against critical confirmation rolls.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warder/warder-archetypes/dervish-defender-warder-archetype The Dervish Defender Warder archetype gets Int to AC at 1st level if wielding two weapons or a double weapon, using light or no armor, and not using a shield heavier than a buckler.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/stalker  The Stalker class's Combat Insight ability lets them add their Wis mod to Reflex saves and Initiative as an Insight bonus at 2nd level.  It adds onto and does not replace Dex.  At 8th level the Stalker adds their Wis mod as a competence bonus to confirm critical hits.

Dodge Bonus:  When using a full-round action to recover maneuvers, the character adds their Wis mod as a dodge bonus to AC.

Misc Stalker abilities:

Alacrity:  Gain Wis bonus to Acrobatics checks.
Deadly Recovery:  When recovering maneuvers, gain use of Combat Reflexes feat and use Wisdom in place of Dex for number of AoOs.


Warlord (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/classes/warlord) stuff isn't included yet because it's kinda crazy how many things the Charisma mod can apply to.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 13, 2014, 04:45:01 PM
Added, minus warlord.

Here's my notes on the Warlord, let me know if I'm missing anything

Warlord's Gambit
1 - Cha to attempt Warlord's Gambit

Tactical Presence
2 - Cha to Fort saves vs. death effects, fatigue or exhaustion effects, or poison effects to allies within 30 feet
5 - Cha to Will saves versus fear, death effect, or compulsion effects to allies within 30 feet
9 - Temp hp crap that's complicated to write out

Force of Personality
3 - Cha to Will

Tactical Flanker
4 - Cha as bonus recieved for flanking, replaces normal +2

Tactical Assistance
8 - Cha as bonus granted for using aid another, replaces normal +2
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on November 13, 2014, 05:24:01 PM
Yeah, it's probably best to simplify the Gambit effects to say "Various d20 rolls for using Gambits."  And a bunch of Rewards for those Gambits.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 13, 2014, 05:25:39 PM
Yeah, it's probably best to simplify the Gambit effects to say "Various d20 rolls for using Gambits."  And a bunch of Rewards for those Gambits.

Yeah, I'm not putting all of those in individual lines.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on November 20, 2014, 09:18:21 PM
Order of the Hammer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-hammer-cavalier-order) grants Str to Acrobatics in addition to Dex

Order of the Penitent (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavalier-orders/order-of-the-penitent) grants Str to Escape Artist in addition to Dex
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 21, 2014, 10:35:25 AM
Added.

I also got around to adding the Warlord stuff.  Tactical Presence 9 didn't make the cut, I'm not sure how to write it and it's just temp hp anyway.

I also fixed the Constitution section, I just noticed some formatting errors that have probably been there for forever.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2015, 09:48:20 PM
Clever Wordplay is a trait that allows you to use Internet on any one Cha skill.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on March 03, 2015, 09:54:55 PM
Clever Wordplay is a trait that allows you to use Internet on any one Cha skill.

Internet?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2015, 10:07:09 PM
Oh sry here  (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/social-traits/clever-wordplay)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 03, 2015, 11:06:39 PM
Clever Wordplay is a trait that allows you to use Internet on any one Cha skill.

Internet?

 :lmao Using the internet on a Cha skill sounds like a penalty.

Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 03, 2015, 11:42:39 PM
Oops.... new phone
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 09, 2015, 09:30:48 PM
Investigator Empiricist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/investigator/archetypes/paizo---investigator-archetypes/empiricist) archetype replaces several things w Int
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 10, 2015, 12:17:55 AM
Added. 

Also I felt that spending an inspiration point to get Int to saves vs. a single illusion spell was too minor to add.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 10, 2015, 12:40:40 AM
Ceaseless Observation is what I was more focusing on
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 10, 2015, 11:28:12 AM
Ceaseless Observation is what I was more focusing on

Like I said, added.   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 10, 2015, 11:51:49 AM
Lol
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 27, 2015, 02:57:53 PM
Added the Slashing Grace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat) feat.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Endarire on May 12, 2015, 01:48:19 AM
Arcane Duelist (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) - L2 gets +INT mod to AC

Duelist and Bladesinger: Max INT bonus to AC equal to class level.  Requires having a 1-handed weapon and no shield.  Bladesinger requires a longsword or rapier as that weapon.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 12, 2015, 11:22:27 AM
Arcane Duelist is Cha to AC, not int. 

All three of those classes are already listed.  :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Ithamar on August 26, 2015, 08:00:21 PM
Just discovered this one.  Yochlol Blessing, a Cleric 4 spell from Drow of the Underdark, gives you 8 tentacles and CHA to AC as a deflection bonus.  It is a Drow only spell, but still pretty nifty.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 26, 2015, 08:37:20 PM
Just discovered this one.  Yochlol Blessing, a Cleric 4 spell from Drow of the Underdark, gives you 8 tentacles and CHA to AC as a deflection bonus.  It is a Drow only spell, but still pretty nifty.

Added!  I'm surprised there's still unfound stuff in 3.5 books.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Triskavanski on October 13, 2015, 08:45:54 AM
Artful Dodger - Int replaces Dex for Prereqs of feats.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 13, 2015, 02:36:45 PM
Artful Dodger - Int replaces Dex for Prereqs of feats.

3.5 or PF?  Source?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Triskavanski on October 13, 2015, 08:16:11 PM
Pathfinder, Melee Tactics Toolbox.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 13, 2015, 09:15:05 PM
Pathfinder, Melee Tactics Toolbox.

Confirmed and added.  Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 11, 2016, 12:17:36 PM
It looks like there hasn't been much traction when it comes to new Pathfinder material for the guide.

Is there enough material/ interest for making an X Stat to Y Bonus post for 5E?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on April 29, 2016, 04:09:49 PM
Do things that increase the multiplier of your stats to things also count, like using more than 2 hands on a weapon for an extra 50% of Str mod to damage per hand, or using a footbow (RotW) for 1.5 Str with a bow? I imagine it would mostly be with Str to damage for that sort of thing.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 29, 2016, 04:23:00 PM
Footbow is a definite yes, and if footbow is I'd say everything else of that sort should be.

However, I'm hesitant to put the more than two hands thing because then I'd feel obligated to talk about two-handed weapons.  It's basic rules text so I'm not sure if it fits.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 01, 2016, 01:34:47 AM
Ultimate Intrigue has a Druid archetype that has Cha-based casting
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 01, 2016, 12:47:21 PM
Feyspeaker Druid Archetype added

Also Fencing Grace feat, Starry Grace feat (both Dex)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nytemare3701 on July 27, 2016, 10:50:45 PM
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc

I don't see Con replacing Int for casting.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 28, 2016, 03:35:22 AM
That's the same on Archives of Nethys

Here's from my 1st printing pdf...

Quote from: ARG 140
Constitution Dependent: A scarred witch doctor uses
Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining
the highest level of spells she can cast, her spell save DCs,
number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her
hexes normally determined by her Intelligence.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nytemare3701 on July 28, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
That's the same on Archives of Nethys

Here's from my 1st printing pdf...

Odd.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 28, 2016, 03:37:03 PM
They must have stealth errata'd it somewhere, which is odd because normally the pf srd notes the erratas.

I checked the book's product page and they made errata between the first and second printing.  I'll update the table to note that.

Edit: So noted, this will help people (like me) who might only reference the book keep up with the changes.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 31, 2016, 07:56:35 PM
Was that in the errata?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 31, 2016, 10:35:31 PM
Was that in the errata?

Yeah, it's in the actual Advanced Race Guide errata pdf.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2016, 04:14:30 AM
Crazy
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 01, 2016, 10:37:55 AM
Crazy

Agreed.  I guess they thought it was overpowered so instead they made half-orcs the default race to take that archetype...
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on August 01, 2016, 12:01:48 PM
They decided to go from awesome to meh
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 29, 2016, 09:03:19 PM
Added from Horror Adventures:

Int
Kineticist (Dark Elementalist Archetype)
Wizard (Elder Mythos Scholar Archetype)

Wis
Kineticist (Psychokineticist Archetype)
Paladin (Tortured Crusader Archetype)

Cha
Barbarian (Fearsome Defender Archetype)
Cleric (Elder Mythos Cultist Archetype)
Mesmerist (Dreamstalker Archetype)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 19, 2016, 08:05:57 PM
Added from Paths of the Righteous
 - Flame Blade Devish feat (Charisma)
 - Devoted Muse prestige class (Charisma)
 - Heritor Knight prestige class (Charisma)
 - Erastil's Blessing feat (Wisdom)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on December 20, 2016, 05:10:34 PM
They decided to go from awesome to meh

That's pretty much Pathfinder in a nutshell.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on December 30, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
Divine Anthology
-Desna's Shooting Star
-Torag's Patient Strikes
-Expert Cipher rogue talent

Haunted Heroes Handbook
-Haunted psychic discipline 5
-Pact Wizard Greater Power 15
-Rivethun Spirit Channeler
-Udall Wendover

Legacy of Dragons
-Scaled Fist

Might have missed a few, but got most
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 30, 2016, 02:49:12 PM
Too busy to check right now, are any of these in d20pfsrd yet?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on January 02, 2017, 01:24:46 PM
Divine fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/divine-fighting-technique-combat)
No Cipher :-/

haunted (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/psychic)
pact (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/pact-wizard-wizard-archetype)
channeler (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/medium/archetypes/paizo-llc---medium-archetypes/spirit-channeler-medium-archetype)
wendo  (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/occult-adventures/occult-classes/medium/archetypes/paizo-llc---medium-archetypes/wendo-medium-archetype)

scaled  (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/scaled-fist-monk-archetype)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 02, 2017, 02:12:10 PM
Divine Fighting Technique feat added for Dex, Wis, and Cha.

Haunted Archetype for Psychic added (I missed this one somehow).

Pact Wizard Archetype added.

Spirit Channeler Archetype for Medium added.

Wendo Caller Archetype for Medium added.

Scaled Fist Archetype for Monk added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 01, 2017, 11:56:12 PM
Psychic Anthology has been gone through
 - Kinetic Knight (Con)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 05, 2017, 11:10:25 PM
Noble Scions
Noble houses throughout Golarion train their courts to
focus on the ideals and skills most appropriate for their
given region. The Noble Scion feat (Pathfinder Campaign
Setting: The Inner Sea World Guide 288) provides benefits to
noble characters. Presented below are a number of benefits
that can be taken in place of the standard selection of
benefits provided by the feat.
Scion of Highhelm: You use your Constitution modifier
instead of your Charisma modifier for the purpose of the
Leadership feat.
Scion of Kyonin: You use your Dexterity modifier
instead of your Charisma modifier for the purpose of the
Leadership feat.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 06, 2017, 12:06:23 AM
What book are those options from?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 10, 2017, 11:00:50 AM
Oh sry, Heroes of the High Court
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 10, 2017, 12:26:48 PM
They've been added, thanks!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on April 16, 2017, 07:12:34 PM
Qadira, Jewel of the East

Regional Trait
Empathic Diplomat: You have long followed the path
of common sense and empathic insight when using
diplomacy. You modify your Diplomacy checks using
your Wisdom modifier, not your Charisma modifier.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 16, 2017, 07:48:56 PM
Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 02, 2017, 08:59:02 PM
Pathfinder stuff added from Legacy of the First World and Adventurer's Guide

Str
 - Sanguine Angel

Dex
 - Aldori Swordlord

Con
 - Deepwater Rager (Barbarian Archetype)

Cha
 - Seducer (Witch Archetype)
 - Nornkith (Monk Archetype)


Someday if I'm ever motivated I'll standardize the language in the entries. (Probably not going to happen.)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 03, 2017, 12:59:48 PM
The guide has been overhauled.  The tables are now nicer, and I've standardized the language as I kept talking about.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 03, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Looks good.

We missed a vanilla Mesmerist's Tower of Iron Will
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 04, 2017, 12:32:52 AM
How did that happen?  Added!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 05, 2017, 04:24:56 AM
Pretty meh, but counts...

Sorrow psychic discipline

Numb to the Pain (Ex): You gain a morale bonus equal
to your Charisma bonus on saving throws against mind-
affecting spells and effects. This bonus cannot exceed your
psychic level.

Order of the hero

Monster Expert (Ex): At 2nd level, the cavalier learns how
to dodge the attacks of his monstrous foes and the traps in
their lairs. He gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus on
Fortitude and Reflex saves against abilities and spells that
have an area of effect.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 05, 2017, 11:10:13 AM
Sorrow isn't in d20pfsrd, I found it in Archives of Nethys but the source listed isn't the source.  Do you know the source?

Order of the Hero added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 05, 2017, 10:44:44 PM
Legacy of the First World pg22

sorrow (http://karzoug.info/srd/classes/psychicDisciplines/sorrow.htm)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 05, 2017, 11:04:02 PM
Huh, I missed that one.  Added.

Also, there are too many srd websites.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 06, 2017, 12:27:30 AM
Couldn't figure whichbook, so just used Neutral Evil Google to figure it out
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 06, 2017, 12:57:20 AM
Couldn't figure whichbook, so just used Neutral Evil Google to figure it out

 :lmao
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 26, 2017, 01:45:51 AM
Elemental Master's Handbook is done.  It has some "gain class feature X from another class but use a different stat" abilities, I didn't add those.  I'm not sure how I would list them.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 04, 2017, 01:53:00 PM
Mystery Cultist and Celestial Obedience for Arshea..

2: Flawless Form (Su) Gain an armor bonus equal to your
Charisma modifier (minimum +1) whenever you wear
revealing clothing and no armor.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 04, 2017, 06:48:32 PM
What the hell book is that from?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 04, 2017, 07:42:41 PM
Chronicles of the Righteous, the Empyreal Lord book
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 04, 2017, 10:36:57 PM
Added.  And here I thought Paizo had avoided sexy class features.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 05, 2017, 01:32:18 AM
there's several divine obediences that require sexual acts.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 05, 2017, 10:30:55 AM
there's several divine obediences that require sexual acts.

 :facepalm
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 06, 2017, 05:21:15 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 06, 2017, 07:19:01 PM
 :nonono
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 06, 2017, 08:00:31 PM
Despite being the creepiest IMO, The Green Mother's base obedience gives one of the best bonuses of any obedience out there. In PFS, it got nerfed to charm and compulsion only.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 06, 2017, 09:39:36 PM
Despite being the creepiest IMO, The Green Mother's base obedience gives one of the best bonuses of any obedience out there. In PFS, it got nerfed to charm and compulsion only.

At least it doesn't require interacting with the plant life? 
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 06, 2017, 11:25:41 PM
If you don't have a friend, just grab the closest cucumber and whisper secrets to your newfound friend.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 06, 2017, 11:27:33 PM
I'll just pass on making characters with sex based abilities.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on September 07, 2017, 12:19:55 AM
Agreed for the most part
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on November 09, 2017, 03:43:45 PM
Socothbenoth's Sentinel Boon from Book of the Damned pg 94

3: Sensuous Facade (Su) Your form has achieved the utmost
perfection, granting you a measure of protection and
filling you with a surge of prideful wrath whenever your
beauty would be sullied by others’ assaults. Your physical
appearance becomes darkly beautiful and sexually
appealing, granting you a +2 profane bonus to your Charisma
score. As long as you do not have an armor bonus to your
Armor Class, you gain a profane bonus to your AC and on
Fortitude saving throws equal to your Charisma modifier.
Whenever a creature deals damage to you with an attack,
you gain a profane bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on
your next weapon attack roll against that creature.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 10, 2017, 11:04:44 AM
Is that part of the Sentinel (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/sentinel/) prestige class or something else?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on November 10, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
Yeah, or using Fiendish Obedience and Damned Soldier feats (allows you to pick between Evangelist and Sentinel)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 10, 2017, 01:13:41 PM
Added both classes and the Deific Obedience feat because that's what's in the SRD.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 01, 2018, 01:27:00 AM
Herbalist Alchemist uses Wis for all Alchemist abilities.

(click to show/hide)

Blighted Defiler Kineticist uses Str for all Kineticist abilities.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 04, 2018, 09:57:42 PM
Where are those from?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: TC X0 Lt 0X on March 04, 2018, 10:04:40 PM
Both appear to be in Ultimate Wilderness.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on March 04, 2018, 10:53:52 PM
Yup
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 07, 2018, 10:28:43 PM
Ugh, I looked through that book and missed both of those.

Blighted Defiler added.

I'm not finding Herbalist Alchemist.  What page number is it on?  Oh wait, there it is. Not with the other archetypes because it's racial.  Blergh.  Done.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2018, 08:07:51 PM
how'd we miss Calistria's 3rd exalted boon?

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Calistria

or Desna's 2nd Evangelist boon

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Desna


Erastil evangelist 3 also
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 09, 2018, 10:12:04 PM
By we you mean you.   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on April 09, 2018, 10:43:34 PM
Hey now! :-p you could have seen them too!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 14, 2018, 08:47:26 PM
Added.  That took me too long.

I only look at new books if I get my hands on them.  I don't have a group anymore so I'm not motivated.  :p
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on April 15, 2018, 01:07:15 AM
The obedience stuff is very tedious, but there's some amazing ones. Most of those are from Book of the Damned
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 15, 2018, 11:29:00 AM
Well if you find anything that I missed, let me know.   :p

I thought about adding a post for Starfinder but they pretty much removed stat replacement there.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 02, 2018, 11:45:11 PM
Distant Realms has been gone through, Mnemostiller archetype for Alchemist added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Jackinthegreen on July 17, 2018, 12:40:28 AM
For the Dex feat Companion Guard Style in Dragon 315 the page number is page 52.

For the wisdom feat Serenity in Dragon 306 the page number is 100.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 17, 2018, 07:37:37 PM
I've added the page numbers.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 03, 2018, 12:50:54 PM
Heroes from the Fringe and Planar Adventures have been gone through.

Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 17, 2018, 11:21:40 AM
Martial Arts Handbook is done..

Construct Handbook done (nothing there).

Plane Hopper's Handbook was also void of items for the guide.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on November 28, 2018, 12:11:03 AM
Wis bard (http://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Dwarven%20Scholar)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: awaken_D_M_golem on November 28, 2018, 04:27:44 PM

Wis bard

Oh nice, something for a Duergar Ardent dual ~caster.

Is it roughly a Combat Feat is converted to a Fighter Feat?
(for purposes of 3.5 + 3.PF crossover usage)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 29, 2018, 12:06:02 AM
Added, and fixed some capitalization inconsistencies.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on December 10, 2018, 10:46:56 PM
Theres some stuff from Wayfinder that's qualify, or is that too 3rd party for the list?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 10, 2018, 11:51:43 PM
Theres some stuff from Wayfinder that's qualify, or is that too 3rd party for the list?

What's Wayfinder?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on December 11, 2018, 12:20:53 AM
Fan made magazines through paizo
here (https://paizo.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/Store.woa/wa/search?q=Wayfinder&what=products&sort=0&f=productType%2FMagazines)

Also, lunar oracles (http://www.aonprd.com/MysteryDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Lunar) get Cha to replace Dex to A.C. and Reflexes
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 12, 2018, 07:44:58 PM
They're published by Paizo Fans United, that's not first party enough for me.

Lunar Oracle added!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: magic9mushroom on February 17, 2019, 06:57:54 AM
Faerie Mysteries Initiate is missing from the Int section for some reason. It was in the prototype table on page 1 of this discussion thread; it seems to have been deleted somehow.

Also, Walker in the Waste 10 and Dry Lich should be combined into one entry; you cannot be a Dry Lich without being a Walker in the Waste 10 and Walker in the Waste 10 doesn't give Cha to HP except via allowing Dry Lich.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 18, 2019, 05:23:16 PM
I don't know what happened to the feat, I'll re-add it tonight when I'm at a computer.

I am leaving the class and template separate, I see no reason to combine them. Nobody should be using any of the entries without looking at the source material, and taking out one or the other would reduce the value as a reference in my opinion.

Edit: as a clarification, I have run into multiple people who remember either the name of Dry Lich or of Walker in the Waste, and WitW is explicitly called out in a prestige class and thus easily obtained by players. That's why I prefer it the way it is

If half-dragon had an x stat to y bonus it would have an entry as well.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 18, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
The feat is back in the table where it belongs.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: magic9mushroom on February 18, 2019, 09:23:52 PM
Alright.

You should probably list Dry Lich's +5 LA alongside its entry, since all the other races and templates have RHD/LA listed.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 18, 2019, 10:00:24 PM
Alright.

You should probably list Dry Lich's +5 LA alongside its entry, since all the other races and templates have RHD/LA listed.

On that one I'm torn. 

On the one hand, all of the other templates have LA listed.

On the other hand, unlike you I do not believe that any of the transformational prestige classes require the character to gain the LA of the template granted by the prestige class.


Eh, fuck it.  I'll add the LA to make things consistent.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: magic9mushroom on February 19, 2019, 01:23:05 AM
On the other hand, unlike you I do not believe that any of the transformational prestige classes require the character to gain the LA of the template granted by the prestige class.

To be perfectly clear on my position:

IMO the RAW on most transformative PrCs that grant a template is somewhat unclear (and ridiculous FAQ responses like the Dread Necro one saying the phylactery doesn't do anything don't help). It's a valid reading in most cases that the LA doesn't apply, and it's the reading I'd personally use because it's the most sensible.

Walker in the Waste is different in its transformative element in two ways:

1) the transformation isn't automatic upon getting the level, but requires a ritual that can't be done alone,
2) the transformation uses a template (rather than simply being handled by class features), but the template can only be applied to people who've completed the PrC.

Furthermore, unlike most transformative PrCs, there's an explicit example of someone who's completed the PrC, and they are listed with an LA. I don't really see a way to claim that WitW 10 -> Dry Lich doesn't give you the LA when we can plainly see a sample WitW 10 -> Dry Lich in the book and he has the LA.

The above is my interpretation of RAW, not my personal opinion on what makes sense or is reasonable. If I were DMing and a PC went Dry Lich, I'd houserule away the LA - it's just plain silly.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 19, 2019, 04:16:53 PM
Fair enough, and I have no issue adding the LA to my table for completness sake (I'm honestly not sure why I didn't originally).

Using the example characters for any OrC isn't the best way to claim rules authority though because there have been multiple ones that have actively broken the rules.

I've just seen you post in multiple guide discussion threads about your opinion so I felt that it was worth mentioning.

Also, just FYI most of the guides are no longer maintained because those users are no longer active so if you never get a response that would be why.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 25, 2019, 10:58:56 PM
Wilderness Origins done.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: magic9mushroom on February 26, 2019, 06:23:22 AM
Bloodtouched Rite misspells "Eberron" in the book name as "Eberrron".
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 26, 2019, 09:22:44 AM
Fixed.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on April 30, 2019, 01:59:45 PM
Dance of Chains (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dance%20of%20Chains)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 01, 2019, 07:50:03 PM
Dance of Chains (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dance%20of%20Chains)

Added!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 06, 2019, 05:24:58 AM
Hastur's exalted boon 3 (https://aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hastur) grants Cha as Deflection to AC.

Stack a bunch of other Cha to AC bonuses. Just use Sifkesh to cherry pick them via several Obedience feats.

Grants Cha instead of Dex (oracle)
Grants Cha as untyped (Calistria; alternate Deific Obedience)
Grants Cha as deflection (Hastur; Deific Obedience)
Grants Cha as armor (Arshea; Celestial Obedience)
Grants Cha as profane (Socothbenoth; alternate Deific Obedience)
Grants Cha as dodge (Shelyn; Devoted Muse)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 06, 2019, 01:49:52 PM
Hiding rules text in an adventure path, for shame! I don't go through those.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 06, 2019, 10:43:47 PM
Hiding rules text in an adventure path, for shame! I don't go through those.

It's added now.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 10, 2019, 12:46:02 PM
Concordance of Rivals

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 10, 2019, 05:03:34 PM
Concordance of Rivals

(click to show/hide)

Have a link for this one?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 11, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
Concordance is not on Nethys yet
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 13, 2019, 11:34:16 AM
Fair enough. I'll have to dig up a copy just to make sure that I create the entry correctly.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 14, 2019, 12:24:18 AM
Good thing I checked, it's a different feat.  Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 14, 2019, 02:36:09 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention that. I might have only noticed that part later too.

Oddly, the it mentions the new PrC (the Proctor) and the older Evangelist, Exalted, and Sentinel PrCs get early access to the boons. But they forgot to add a rule that allows the older 3 an option swap Monitor Obedience in for Deific Obedience (like Fiendish Obedience had). Otherwise, it becomes the worst sort of feat tax required, a feat that actually does nothing (Deific Obedience in this instance).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 14, 2019, 10:38:17 AM
Fiendish Obedience is a thing? I don't have that anywhere so I probably have some incorrect entries.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 14, 2019, 08:14:21 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 14, 2019, 10:06:41 PM
Wow.  I am not motivated enough to figure out if I have all of the obedience boons correlating to the correct feat, that's a lot of feats.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2019, 06:41:58 PM
I'll go over it and see if anything stands out
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 15, 2019, 07:39:46 PM
I appreciate that, you're a lot more familiar with the boons than I am.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2019, 09:38:59 PM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 15, 2019, 10:29:14 PM
Done.  And now you know that I have no idea how obedience bonuses work and if any more pop up I need more information.   :p
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 15, 2019, 11:22:46 PM
if you need the basics...  :teach

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 20, 2019, 10:14:06 PM
Somehow, this slipped through...

Strength of Body (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Strength%20of%20Body)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 20, 2019, 10:24:11 PM
Added and fixed a couple of typos.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 02, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Chronicle of Legends done, I only found one.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Endarire on July 24, 2019, 06:27:03 PM
Any updates on Pathfinder material?

PS: Maybe this stuff (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o91Z-s0R7Vf2Ujj1lFqGC5W--9JOyU0I6uC9XRIR5to/edit?usp=sharing) will help with your guide.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 24, 2019, 07:10:04 PM
nothing that i saw in AP143
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 24, 2019, 07:35:27 PM
Any updates on Pathfinder material?

PS: Maybe this stuff (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o91Z-s0R7Vf2Ujj1lFqGC5W--9JOyU0I6uC9XRIR5to/edit?usp=sharing) will help with your guide.

PF material is pretty much done as they're ramping into the release of PF2.  I don't expect many more entries here, if any.

I'll check the google doc.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 24, 2019, 09:44:55 PM
Added:

Strength
 - Warpriest
 - Mammoth Rider
 - Composite Long/Shortbow (How did I miss this?)

Dexterity
 - Fighter (Crossbowman Archetype)
 - Fighter (Trench Fighter Archetype)
 - Gunslinger (Multiple)
 - Rogue (Counterfeit Mage Archetype)
 - Swashbuckler (Multiple)

Constitution
 - Raging Brutality feat
 - Raging Throw feat

Intelligence
 - Alchemist
 - Alchemist (Mind Chemist Archetype)
 - Cleric (Divine Strategist Archetype)
 - Cyphermage (Focused Scroll Cypher Lore)
 - Cyphermage (Insightful Scroll Cypher Lore)
 - Magus (Multiple)
 - Rogue (Kitsune Trickster Archetype)
 - Rogue (Underground Chemist Archetype)
 - Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade Archetype)
 - Witch (White-Haired Witch Archetype)
 - Wizard (Multiple)
 - Kirin Style feat
 - Targeted Bomb Admixture spell
 - Astrolabe

Variable/Other
 - Versatile Jinxer feat
 - Battering Blast spell
 - Bladed Dash spell
 - Chain of Perdition spell
 - Pilfering Hand spell
 - Strangling Hair spell


I'll have to do Wis and Cha later.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 24, 2019, 10:26:49 PM
Composite bows? Haha

Orc Hornbow works like composite
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 24, 2019, 11:42:28 PM
Composite bows? Haha

Orc Hornbow works like composite

I don't think I'm going to play that game, just like I don't list all of the classes that get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.  I know I didn't list all of the different types of Composite bows in 3.5.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on July 25, 2019, 01:40:36 AM
makes sense
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 26, 2019, 12:38:39 AM
More added:

Wisdom
 - Cleric (multiple)
 - Druid (Wolf Domain)
 - Gunslinger (Experimental Gunsmith Archetype)
 - Inquisitor (multiple)
 - Investigator (Spiritualist Archetype)
 - Monk (multiple)
 - Shaman (multiple)
 - Warpriest (Magic Blessing)
 - Warpriest (Sacred Fist Archetype)
 - Umbral Agent
 - Earth Child Style feat
 - Ki Diversity feat

Charisma
 - Antipaladin
 - Arcanist (Greater Spell Disruption Greater Exploit)
 - Bard (Magician Archetype)
 - Champion of the Enlightened
 - Gunslinger (Buccaneer Archetype)
 - Magus (Eldritch Scion Archetype)
 - Oracle (multiple)
 - Paladin (multiple)
 - Warpriest 4 (Champion of the Faith Archetype)
 - Divine Protection feat
 - Steadfast Personality feat
 - Irrepressible trait
 - Bracers of the Avenging Knight

Variable/Other
 - Smite Abomination spell

Also some general cleanup happened.

Done!
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on August 29, 2019, 01:39:55 AM
some more

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 01, 2019, 12:00:09 AM
Added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on October 15, 2019, 02:21:04 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanashi on October 16, 2019, 03:49:36 PM
Do things that replace a skill check with a check of different skill based on a different attribute count?

Dex based:
Sly Draw (Adventurer's Armor, feat) Sleight of Hand in place of Bluff to feint when you draw a light weapon.

Intelligence based:
Orator (ACG, feat): Replace Diplomacy or Bluff check (limited uses) with Linguistics check.
Esoteric Linguistics (ACG, feat): Replace UMD check to use scroll with Lingusitics check.
Applied Engineering (ACO, Investigator Talent): Replace strength check to break an object or Perception check to locate hidden door/compartment with Knowledge: Engineering (requires extra action)

Wisdom based:
Herb Witch (Heroes of the Wild, Witch Archetype): Use Profession (Herbalist) in place of Craft (Alchemy)

Charisma Based:
Versatile Performance (CRB, Bard 2/6/10/14/18): Replace Acrobatics, Fly, and/or Sense Motive (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check.
Versatile Performance (ACG, Skald 2/7/12/17): Replace Sense Motive (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check
Expanded Versatility (Blood of the Beast, replace non-first Versatile Performance): Replace escape artist or sense motive check (plus some charisma based skills) with Perform check
Dance of Disorienting Shadows (Blood of Shadows, Advanced Rogue talent): Use Perform (Dance) check in place of combat maneuver check for reposition.
Pageant of the Peacock (Dragonslayer's Companion, Masterpiece): Replace any intelligence based skill check with a Bluff check (requires extra action, limited uses per day).

There's some others that change a skill to a different skilled based on the same attribute (mostly social skill for social skill), which could be combined with  Bruising Intellect/Clever Wordplay but are so impractical at that to not really be worth noting.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 16, 2019, 08:16:49 PM
Mystery added.

For the skill checks, I don't know.  I'll have to go look at the precedent, and I'm having my tonsils removed tomorrow so will probably end up forgetting to look.  Just fyi.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on November 22, 2019, 11:10:35 AM
PF Duskwalker (https://www.aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Duskwalker) race's alternate racial trait Yamaraj's Baliff allows Duskwalkers to use Wisdom instead of Charisma to roll Bluff and Diplomacy.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on November 22, 2019, 11:33:50 AM
PF Duskwalker (https://www.aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Duskwalker) race's alternate racial trait Yamaraj's Baliff allows Duskwalkers to use Wisdom instead of Charisma to roll Bluff and Diplomacy.

Added!

That's the first real racial entry for PF (not counting Undead).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on December 02, 2019, 08:30:11 PM
Well then, may as well list some more Pathfinder entries:

Tiefling (https://aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Tiefling) alternate racial trait "Smite Good" gives 1/day swift: +Cha to attack, +HD to damage,  but only lasts until the first time you hit. Ganzi (https://aonprd.com/RacesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ganzi) racial trait Ganzi Oddity's "Chaos Champion" option gives Smite Law as 1/day swift: +Cha to attack, +HD to damage. Both of these races will make for some rather odd Paladins.

Cunning Liar (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cunning%20Liar) region trait allows you to use Intellect or Wisdom instead of your Charisma modifier on Bluff checks. Balanced Education (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Balanced%20Education) region trait allows you to 1/day replace a physical skillcheck modifier with a mental one and vice versa, using the following pairings: Strength:Intellect, Dexterity:Wisdom, and Constitution:Charisma.

By the way, it would be much better if your guide specified the trait's category when listing traits, since you need Examplar traits to get multiple traits in the same category, and that's assuming there is an Examplar trait for that category.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 03, 2019, 09:44:29 AM
Added.

Also the same argument could be said for alternate racial traits or for archetypes (Paladin for example has a lot of entries).  This guide has never been intended to be a primary source for character building, the first post even says that every single entry should be double checked before used because I only write down the parts that are about adjusting stat usage.

I just don't see a compelling reason to give traits special treatment.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on December 03, 2019, 11:56:15 AM
No the difference is that one tends to look up traits by category and this results in a lot of time wasted by people who are scrolling down the wrong lists for the trait. For archetypes it's easy to find them and figure out the rest yourself. For traits if you're flipping through 4-5 lists looking for it, it's more of a nuisance. I view listing a trait's category to be the same as listing an archetype's class. Traits should probably also have their own category to be honest, instead of being lumped under Other. Well, time to flesh out the PF list some more so...

More traits:
Animal Rustler (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Animal%20Rustler) race trait: 1/day: Add str mod on top of cha to handle animal.
Disciplined Body (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Disciplined%20Body) race trait: 1/day: Use wis mod to replace str or dex mod for attack, combat maneuver, skill check, str check, dex check, or reflex saving throw.
Intrepid Volunteer (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Intrepid%20Volunteer) race trait: Choose one strength-based skill or combat maneuver. It now uses the dexterity modifier instead.
Heedful Readiness (https://aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Heedful%20Readiness) faith trait: 1/day: add wis mod to an initiative check.
Clockwork Surgeon (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Clockwork%20Surgeon) religion trait: Start with custom healer's kit. Can add int mod to hitpoints healed when treating deadly wounds.

And now feats:
Erastil's Blessing (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Erastil%27s%20Blessing): Wis mod replaces dex mod for ranged longbow attacks.
Noble Scion (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Noble%20Scion) (of Highhelm): Con mod replaces cha for purposes of Leadership feat.
Noble Scion (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Noble%20Scion) (of Kyonin): Dex mod replaces cha for purposes of Leadership feat.
Barracuda Style (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Barracuda%20Style): Add wis mod to Swim checks.
Diabolical Negotiator (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Diabolical%20Negotiator): Wis or int mod (whichever is higher) replaces cha for diplomacy. (Also no limit on diplomacy attitude shifts and creature's attitude only sours if you roll a nat 1.)
Bladed Brush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bladed%20Brush): Glaives can receive Weapon Finesse and count as one-handed piercing or slashing weapons without an off-hand for purposes of feats and class abilities (which opens up dex mod replacing str for damage with Slashing Grace feat and class features).
Ironclad Logic (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ironclad%20Logic): Some Ultimate Intrigue-only mechanic, but "In verbal duels, when using tactics to which you assigned an Intelligence-based skill, you can add your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier to the associated skill check."
Fast Healer (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Fast%20Healer): Add half your constitution modifier to hitpoints you regain from magical effects or resting.
Conservatory-Trained (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Conservatory-Trained): Another Ultimate Intrigue-only mechanic. "You gain an insight bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier on discovery checks using the individual influence system."
Gate Breaker (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Gate%20Breaker): Add str mod on top of normal damage to damage vs objects, whether sundering or unattended.
Equipment Trick (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Equipment%20Trick) (Sling): Dex replaces str for disarm combat maneuver with sling... (Any effect that replaces attack score also replaces combat maneuver score, for the record.)
Virtuous Creed (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Virtuous%20Creed) (of Humility): Add Wis mod to Diplomacy checks (does not replace cha).
Unblinking Flame Feint (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Unblinking%20Flame%20Feint): Wis mod replaces cha for bluff checks to feint.
Linnorm Style (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Linnorm%20Style): -2 to AC, add Wis bonus to unarmed strikes replacing str/dex bonus (should say mod, but paizo editing sucks) against a creature that makes a melee attack against you until beginning of said creature's next turn.

Magic items:
Saliharion (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Saliharion): While in possession of this tome with Sarenrae as divine patron, add cha or wis mod as sacred bonus to Heal checks and Knowledge checks to identify abilities and weaknesses of enemies.
Amulet of the Spirits (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Amulet%20of%20the%20SpiritsHeavens) (Heavens): When wearer can see open sky at night, add wis mod to all cha checks and cha-based skill checks.
Healer's Satchel (https://aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Healer%27s%20SatchelNormal): Add wis bonus to Treat Deadly Wounds when expending two uses. If you exceed DC by 5, add double wis bonus. (Likely meant to replace existing bonus for exceeding Heal DC by 5.) Probably more useful if paired with a Boline (https://aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Boline) (10gp) or Mobile hospital (https://www.aonprd.com/EquipmentMiscDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mobile%20hospital) (1000gp) to double the amount of uses you can get out of this kit per day.

Other stuff:
Expert Cypher (https://aonprd.com/RogueTalents.aspx) Rogue Talent: Int replaces cha for UMD.
Torture (https://aonprd.com/DomainDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Destruction) subdomain Painful Smite: Convert attack to nonlethal and add wis mod to damage, usable 3+wis mod times per day (also demoralize as free action, gaining intimidate bonus equal to total nonlethal damage dealt, which effectively adds the previous wis mod to intimidate).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 03, 2019, 01:19:14 PM
You and I look up traits very differently. I look up by what they give you, then I pick ones that are in different categories.

Since every trait should be manually looked at anyway and every trait entry tells you what category it is then adding the categories to the entries won't reduce work unless people are just using entries without looking them up which nobody should ever do.

I'm on my phone so won't be adding entries until later.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 07, 2019, 02:39:48 PM
Everything that isn't a feat has been added.  I don't have time for those now and will have to add them later.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on December 10, 2019, 06:45:23 PM
found the Saliharion (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Saliharion) while browsing unslotted items

Quote
If Sarenrae is the owner’s patron, the owner may instead choose to gain a sacred bonus equal to her Wisdom or Charisma modifier on <Heal checks and Knowledge skill checks to identify the abilities and weaknesses of monsters> instead of the normal +2 bonus.

lets you get Wisdom twice on Heal checks
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 11, 2019, 08:29:50 PM
found the Saliharion (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicWondrousDisplay.aspx?FinalName=Saliharion) while browsing unslotted items

Quote
If Sarenrae is the owner’s patron, the owner may instead choose to gain a sacred bonus equal to her Wisdom or Charisma modifier on <Heal checks and Knowledge skill checks to identify the abilities and weaknesses of monsters> instead of the normal +2 bonus.

lets you get Wisdom twice on Heal checks

That was in Power's list so has been added (it's in Variable/Other since you get to pick one of two stats).

I haven't had time to do the feats he posted yet.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on December 12, 2019, 01:42:55 AM
lol... didnt even see his post
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 13, 2019, 11:48:16 AM
No worries.  :lol
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 17, 2019, 11:37:46 PM
Feats finally added (Noble Scion entries were already in the list).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on December 23, 2019, 07:36:49 PM
Got more PF entries.

Feats:
Merciless Rush (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Merciless%20Rush): If you bullrush and CMB exceeds target's CMD by 5 or more, deal damage equal to str modifier.
Elven Battle Focus (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Elven%20Battle%20Focus): Int mod replaces str mod for damage rolls.
Intimidate Animals (https://aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Intimidate%20Animals): Add wis mod to intimidate checks vs animals (does not replace cha).
Ranged Trip (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ranged%20Trip): Make a ranged trip attempt as a full-round action. Use dex mod instead of str for CMB. If it hits, apply damage too.
Ranged Disarm (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ranged%20Disarm): Same, but for disarm.

Classes/Archetypes:
Sharptooth Barbarian (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Barbarian%20Sharptooth) 12: Add con mod in bleed damage to attacks.
Ascetic Kineticist (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Kineticist%20Elemental%20Ascetic): Wis replaces key ability score of Wild Talents.
Virtuoso Bravo Paladin (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Paladin%20Virtuoso%20Bravo) 1: Use dex mod instead of str for attacks with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and use cha score instead of int score to meet int prerequisites of feats.
Savage Technologist Barbarian (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Barbarian%20Savage%20Technologist) 3: Add str mod to diplomacy checks with tribal cultures.
Savage Technologist Barbarian (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Barbarian%20Savage%20Technologist) 5: Add dex mod to ranged damage rolls with firearms while raging.
High Guardian Fighter (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Fighter%20High%20Guardian) 2: Gain Combat Reflexes as bonus feat and use str mod instead of dex to determine number of bonus AoOs.

Prestige classes:
Student of Perfection (https://aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Student%20of%20Perfection) (One in Mind and Body ki power): spend 1 ki, swift: add Wisdom mod as bonus to Str or dex-based check.
Student of Perfection (https://aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Student%20of%20Perfection) (Iron Chain Strike ki power): spend 1 ki: Maintain grapple as swift action and add double str bonus to damage roll.
Student of Perfection (https://aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Student%20of%20Perfection) (Genie's Blade ki power): spend 1 ki, swift: Falchion, kukri, and scimitar (power also grants auto-proficiency in these and makes them count as monk weapons) use unarmed damage die (if greater) and apply full Str mod to attacks (ie. free Double Slice).
Mammoth Rider (https://www.aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Mammoth%20Rider) 1: Use Wild Empathy as Intimidate vs animal or magical beasts, and add Str modifier in addition to Cha modifier to these checks.
Brother of the Seal (https://www.aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Brother%20of%20the%20Seal) 4: Gain Awesome Blow as bonus feat. Add Wis mod to CMB for Awesome Blow maneuvers.
Rivethun Emissary (https://www.aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Rivethun%20Emissary) 3: Select str, dex, or con. As an immediate action, replace wis mod for selected ability modifier on a single ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check. Usable ½ Rivethun Emissary lvl + Cha mod times per day.

Traits:
Brevoy Bandit (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Brevoy%20Bandit) region trait: Choose one Profession skill and one ability score other than Wisdom. You add that ability score in addition to Wisdom on checks with the chosen Profession skill.
Voices of Solid Things (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Voices%20of%20Solid%20Things) region trait: Choose Appraise, Craft, Disable Device, or Spellcraft. Cha mod replaces normal ability score for checks.
Persuasive Insight (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Persuasive%20Insight) faith trait: More Ultimate Intrigue stuff. Use wis mod instead of cha mod to ask favors, gain influence, use tactics assigned to Diplomacy in verbal duels, or use tactics assigned to Wis-based skills.
Searing Beacon (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Searing%20Beacon) religion trait: Gain wis mod as precision damage bonus to melee crits vs undead.

Other:
Leap and Bound (https://www.aonprd.com/VigilanteTalents.aspx) Vigilante talent: Add str to Acrobatics checks.
Tiny size (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fo#v5748eaic9qnq) causes you to use Dexterity instead of Strength for CMB (https://pathfinder.d20srd.org/coreRulebook/combat.html#combat-maneuvers), Climb, and Swim checks. Useful for Druids at least. And anyone using Reduce Person from small size.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on December 23, 2019, 10:30:33 PM
That's a lot of stuff.  Hopefully I'll have time to get to it this week.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 05, 2020, 10:57:08 PM
I did not have time that week.

Everything has been added except the FAQ entry.  Despite what Paizo said they never actually made a universal monster rule for that.  I'm not sure how to list it right now.

Mammoth Rider and the Vigilante talent were already in the list.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 05, 2020, 11:09:28 PM
I got pissed off at the extra spacing I had added as padding to make things more legible so I dug into the table bbcode options and now the spacing is gone and the tables have proper borders.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on January 06, 2020, 05:03:21 PM
Driven by Guilt (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Driven%20By%20Guilt)
The Lawbringer (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=The%20Lawbringer)

Karthis
Noble Scion* (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Noble%20Scion%20(Taldor%20Variant))

and maybe
Linked Surge (https://www.aonprd.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Linked%20Surge)
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 14, 2020, 12:09:30 AM
Whoops, I read this and then promptly forgot about it until today!

Everything added except for Linked Surge.  I don't feel like it should be included but if there's a strong argument for it I'd be willing to change my mind.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on January 14, 2020, 12:53:53 AM
Nah, I only figured u should decide
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on January 14, 2020, 12:37:36 PM
I'd add Linked Surge under "Other" since you are indeed replacing your ability modifier, but with an unusual source.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 15, 2020, 07:51:09 PM
I double checked and I've got taint under the 3.5 section, at least the eidolon is a class feature.

It's been added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on January 20, 2020, 01:44:33 PM
exalted PrC for Minderhal in AP93 pg75

Quote
3: Rocky Flesh (Sp) You gain a profane bonus equal to your Charisma modifier on your Fortitude saving throws and to your natural armor bonus.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 20, 2020, 05:38:10 PM
It took me way too long to figure out what you were talking about.

Here's the Minderhal deity page for when I'm not on my phone and can add it.

https://aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Minderhal
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on January 20, 2020, 08:06:11 PM
sry about that
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on January 20, 2020, 09:16:41 PM
It's okay.  Added!

Ugh, Charisma has too many class entries.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on March 20, 2020, 11:47:03 AM
More PF entries:

Feats:
Horn of the Criosphinx (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Horn%20of%20the%20Criosphinx): Add 2x str to damage when charging with 2H weapon (or unarmed as monk).
Bulette Leap (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bulette%20Leap): Add str bonus to acrobatics jump checks.
Marid Style (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Marid%20Style): Add wis bonus to unarmed damage with elemental fist
Shaitan Style (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shaitan%20Style): Add wis bonus to unarmed damage with elemental fist
Djinni Style (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Djinni%20Style): Add wis bonus to unarmed damage with elemental fist
Efreeti Style (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Efreeti%20Style): Add wis bonus to unarmed damage with elemental fist
Ki Diversity (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Ki%20Diversity): Wis replaces str and dex for all melee or ranged attacks made that round.

Classes/Archetypes:
Instructor Wizard (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Wizard%20Instructor): Int replaces cha for Leadership score.
Solacer Bard (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Solacer): Some Horror-rules mechanic, but use cha to act as confidante and reduce sanity damage instead of int and wisdom.
Hatharat Agent Bard (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Bard%20Hatharat%20Agent): Add int mod to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate checks vs most intelligent creatures.
Rivethun Spirit Channeler (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Medium%20Rivethun%20Spirit%20Channeler): Wis replaces Cha for Medium class. It's already listed, but it's listed as Spirit Channeler, likely using d20pfsrd as a reference instead of the proper name.

Deific Obediences:
Xhamen-Dor (https://aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Xhamen-Dor) Sentinel 2nd Boon: Add cha to weapon damage vs shapechangers and polymorphed creatures
Kazutal (https://www.aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kazutal) Exalted 2nd Boon: Wis to AC as Sacred bonus.
Shelyn (https://www.aonprd.com/DeityDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Shelyn) Sentinel 2nd Boon: When using smite evil, add double your charisma bonus on attack rolls and your charisma bonus + Paladin level on damage rolls.

Spells:
Bestow Grace of the Champion (https://www.aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bestow%20Grace%20of%20the%20Champion): You listed adding cha to all saves, but missed the 1/day smite evil as a Paladin of 1/2 caster level (which adds cha to attack and cha to deflection AC vs target).
Divine Transfer (https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Divine%20Transfer): Transfer an amount of hit points up to your con score to target. Target gains DR/Evil equal to caster's cha bonus for duration of spell (1 round/level).
Line in the Sand (https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Line%20in%20the%20Sand): Gain additional attacks of opportunity equal to your spellcasting ability modifier vs targets in area of spell (5 foot emanation, can be 10 with Widen Spell metamagic).
Bladed Dash (https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bladed%20Dash): Immediately move 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. You can make one melee attack at highest BAB to an adjacent target at any point on the way. Gain cha or int (whichever is higher) as circumstance bonus to attack roll.
Greater Bladed Dash (https://aonprd.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Bladed%20Dash,%20Greater): Same as above, only you get to hit every creature on the way once.

Other:
Lay of the Scholar-King (https://www.aonprd.com/SkaldSagas.aspx) Skald saga: Add cha mod to all int-based skill checks, but take int bonus as penalty on all cha-based skills.
Tiny size (https://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fo#v5748eaic9qnq) causes you to use Dexterity instead of Strength for CMB (https://pathfinder.d20srd.org/coreRulebook/combat.html#combat-maneuvers), Climb, and Swim checks. Useful for Druids at least. And anyone using Reduce Person from small size.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on March 21, 2020, 07:05:37 PM
The Tiny Size thing was never added to Bestiary 4 or any other book which makes me very wary of putting it in since that FAQ entry is 7 years old and was never integrated into the actual rules.

Ki Diversity is already in the guide.

Rivethun added to the Spirit Channeler archetype entry.  Yes, I use d20pfsrd for pretty much everything because it is way better organized and easier to look through IMO.  I don't do organized play.

Bestow Grace of the Champion now mentions smiting.

Bladed Dash was already there, added "/Bladed Dash, Greater" to the entry.  The entry was also incorrect, mentioning damage, so I fixed it.

Everything else has been added.


Dealing with this again made me think about the traits disagreement awhile back. I'm willing to add the type of trait to each trait entry but not willing to look up all of the traits myself because I hate updating this guide.  If someone else will do the legwork I'll get the information added.

Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on May 09, 2020, 11:30:32 PM
this (https://www.aonprd.com/MagicStavesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Crook%20of%20Unseen%20Forces) staff might qualify? look at the last ability
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on May 10, 2020, 06:27:01 PM
Yep, added to the Variable/Other section.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on June 28, 2020, 01:23:30 AM
somehow, this seemed to have slipped through the cracks

Quote
Superior Reflexes (Ex): At 11th level, kensai (magus) can make a number of attacks of opportunity in a round equal to his Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). This effect stacks with the Combat Reflexes feat. This ability replaces improved spell recall.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on June 28, 2020, 10:02:15 PM
I don't know what you're talking about, it's totally there.   :P
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 02, 2020, 10:13:28 AM
Eventide's Edge (ToB legacy weapon for Setting Sun) gives Wis to AC at 10th level. If you already have Wis to AC, it instead just gives +1 to AC. The text is basically identical to the monk version (minus the level-based scaling) otherwise.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 03, 2020, 10:15:39 PM
Added.  I'm amazed that there was a 3.5 entry that had been missed.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Garryl on July 04, 2020, 06:52:33 PM
Is it worth mentioning that the Shadow Sun Ninja also gives you the Monk's AC Bonus (and Stunning Fist daily uses) if you aren't a Monk?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 05, 2020, 07:08:07 PM
Is it worth mentioning that the Shadow Sun Ninja also gives you the Monk's AC Bonus (and Stunning Fist daily uses) if you aren't a Monk?

Yep, it's been added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on August 03, 2020, 05:10:55 AM
KITHARODIAN ACADEMY from Inner Sea Intrigue pg 28--29

Quote
Any Musical Instrument: Choose one type of instrument
from the Perform skill (keyboard, percussion, string, or
wind instruments). You can use that skill’s total modifier
instead of your modifier on Disable Device and Sleight of
Hand checks.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 04, 2020, 10:36:39 AM
Both big PF SRDs don't have anything named Kitharodian Academy and pages 28-29 of Inner Sea Intrigue are the first two pages about intrigue-themed classes.

Oh, I see the issue.  Don't give me the pdf page number, give me the actual page number.  I don't count covers in my page numbers.   :P

Added to Variable/Other.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on August 04, 2020, 03:25:19 PM
weird... i misquoted both numbers.

page 26 is the start of the school, and page 27 is the actual ability

Quote
Any Musical Instrument: Choose one type of instrument
from the Perform skill (keyboard, percussion, string, or
wind instruments). You can use that skill’s total modifier
instead of your modifier on Disable Device and Sleight of
Hand checks.

comedy should have been included
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on February 28, 2021, 01:40:08 AM
are there any lists that have skills that replace other skills? like Taunt (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Taunt) or a bard's versatile performance?
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on February 28, 2021, 08:04:51 PM
are there any lists that have skills that replace other skills? like Taunt (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Taunt) or a bard's versatile performance?

I was very confused to see a reply on this thread.   :lol

I've seen a guide for alternative ways to get skills as class skills but that's the only skill guide I've seen (and it's for 3.5).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on February 28, 2021, 10:44:02 PM
I figured this discussion might be appropriate, since it X to Y, why not X-skill to Y-skill
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: nijineko on July 11, 2021, 06:09:27 PM
I figured this discussion might be appropriate, since it X to Y, why not X-skill to Y-skill

sounds legit. ^^
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Endarire on April 19, 2022, 08:48:52 PM
Marshal auras add CHA bonus to a variety of effects like initiative for Motivate Dexterity.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on April 19, 2022, 10:19:33 PM
Marshal auras add CHA bonus to a variety of effects like initiative for Motivate Dexterity.

Marshal 1 is on the class table, everything is consolidated into a single entry because I'm not going to list our every single Marshal aura.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Annabeth on July 22, 2022, 09:57:15 AM
Nice thread

Awe-Inspiring Smash (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Awe-Inspiring%20Smash) feat.
Quote
You can apply your Strength modifier instead of your Charisma modifier to performance combat checks.

Self-Perfection (https://www.aonprd.com/PsychicDisciplinesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Self-Perfection) psychic discipline.
Wis to AC and CMD. Also, you can add wisdom mod to initiative check ("An initiative check is a dexterity check").
Quote
When you attempt a Strength-, Dexterity-, or Constitutionbased ability check or skill check, you can gain a bonus on the check equal to your Wisdom bonus.

Knowledge Is Power wizard discovery (https://www.aonprd.com/WizardArcaneDiscoveries.aspx). Good dip for Fighter Lore Warden.
Quote
You add your Intelligence modifier on combat maneuver checks and to your CMD. You also add your Intelligence modifier on Strength checks to break or lift objects.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 22, 2022, 01:13:05 PM
Those three have now been added.

Honestly I'm a little surprised that there were some items that had been missed.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Power on July 22, 2022, 01:35:24 PM
Eh, there are a few more:

Scroll Mastery (https://www.aonprd.com/MagusArcana.aspx) Magus Arcana (requires Magus 6): Spend 1 arcane pool point to use int mod for scroll DCs.
Fractured Mind (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Spiritualist%20Fractured%20Mind) Spiritualist 1: Uses Cha instead of Wis for spellcasting.
Hunting Paladin (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Paladin%20Hunting%20Paladin) 1: Hunt Evil adds cha mod to Survival, Perception, and Stealth checks vs target.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Annabeth on July 22, 2022, 04:05:40 PM
Kinetic Enhancement (https://www.aonprd.com/PsiTechDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kinetic%20Enhancement) Psi-Tech Discoveries
Quote
You can add your Intelligence modifier as a bonus on combat maneuver checks and to your CMD. You can also add your Intelligence modifier as a bonus on Strength checks to break or lift objects.

Guided Star (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Guided%20Star) feat
Quote
You can empower a starknife with magical power once per day per character level as a swift action. Until the end of your turn, add your Wisdom modifier to your damage rolls with the starknife in addition to any other modifiers you normally add.

Diva Strike (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Diva%20Strike) feat
Quote
While using Diva Style, the first time you hit with a melee weapon in a round, you deal an additional amount of damage equal to your Charisma modifier to a target that is denied its Dexterity bonus to AC.

Politics Inquisition (https://www.aonprd.com/Inquisitions.aspx)
Quote
Labyrinthine Words (Ex): You add your Wisdom modifier in addition to your Charisma modifier on Bluff checks to lie and Diplomacy checks to influence other creatures.

Building-Up Koan Ki Powers (https://www.aonprd.com/MonkUCKiPowers.aspx)
Quote
The monk must attempt a Will save (DC 15 + 1/2 the monk’s level). If successful, he gains an insight bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier to AC and on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and until the end of the round. If he fails, the monk is instead confused for 1 round.]The monk must attempt a Will save (DC 15 + 1/2 the monk’s level). If successful, he gains an insight bonus equal to his Wisdom modifier to AC and on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks and until the end of the round. If he fails, the monk is instead confused for 1 round.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Annabeth on July 22, 2022, 05:54:13 PM
Esoteric Knight (https://www.aonprd.com/PrestigeClassesDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Esoteric%20Knight) prestige class
Quote
When wearing armor or using a shield, the esoteric knight adds 1 point of her Intelligence or Charisma bonus (if any; whichever is higher) per esoteric knight class level as an enhancement bonus to her armor or shield (maximum +5).

Duelist of the Roaring Falls (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Duelist%20of%20the%20Roaring%20Falls) feat
Quote
When you use an Aldori dueling sword to deal damage to a shaken, frightened, or panicked foe, you can add your Dexterity bonus to damage rolls instead of your Strength bonus.

Redistributed Might (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Redistributed%20Might) feat
Quote
Whenever an effect would grant you an enhancement or morale bonus to your Strength score (such as via bull’s strength or a skald’s inspired rage performance), you can instead apply that bonus to your Dexterity score.

Water Dancer (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Monk%20Water%20Dancer) monk archetype
Quote
When unarmored and unencumbered, a water dancer adds 1 point of Charisma bonus per monk level to his Armor Class as a dodge bonus.
Interesting that the archetype adds charisma to AC twice.

Sword-devil (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Ranger%20Sword-Devil) ranger archetype
Quote
Beginning at 3rd level, the sword-devil can use her Charisma score in place of her Intelligence score as a prerequisite for combat feats. Additionally, she selects one type of light or one- handed slashing melee weapon. When using this weapon, she may use her Dexterity modifier instead of her Strength modifier on melee attack rolls
Archetype also grants charisma to armor class (level 4) and cha to attack and damage roll (level 19).


Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 22, 2022, 06:19:27 PM
I saw more activity and was going to update but this is too many so I'll do it sometime this weekend.  Updating the tables is a pain.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on July 25, 2022, 06:51:36 PM
Okay, they've all been added.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Annabeth on August 05, 2022, 07:29:25 AM
Warlord (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Fighter%20Warlord) fighter archetype
Quote
When unarmored and unencumbered, the warlord adds his Charisma bonus(if any)to his AC and his CMD.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 05, 2022, 10:26:53 AM
Warlord (https://www.aonprd.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Fighter%20Warlord) fighter archetype
Quote
When unarmored and unencumbered, the warlord adds his Charisma bonus(if any)to his AC and his CMD.

Done
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Annabeth on August 10, 2022, 04:29:46 AM
Divine Communion (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Divine%20Communion) feat
Quote
Once per day as a swift action, you can ponder whether or not your deity would approve or disapprove of a particular course of action, and whether that action would impact your alignment. The GM decides if the action is one your deity would approve of, and if it is, you gain an insight bonus equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum of +1) on any d20 roll made in association with that action during this round.

Radiant Charge (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Radiant%20Charge) feat
Quote
When you hit with a charge attack, you can expend all of your remaining uses of lay on hands to deal extra damage equal to 1d6 per use of lay on hands expended + your Charisma bonus.

Hands of Valor (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Hands%20of%20Valor) feat
Quote
Once per day when you use lay on hands, you can also imbue that ally with valor. In addition to the normal effects of your lay on hands, the targeted ally gains a sacred bonus on attack rolls and on saves against fear effects equal to your Charisma bonus (minimum +1) for 1 minute.

Kraken Style (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Kraken%20Style) feat
Quote
When you succeed at a grapple check while using this style, your opponent takes an amount of bludgeoning damage equal to your Wisdom modifier

Smiting Reversal (https://www.aonprd.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Smiting%20Reversal) feat
Quote
Three times per day after being targeted by the smite attack of an enemy, you can immediately make an attack of opportunity against the target. You gain a bonus on this attack roll equal to your Charisma bonus.

Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on August 10, 2022, 11:52:03 AM
Added
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Arz on September 09, 2022, 04:09:06 PM
Wisdom breeds caution (Underdark) Wis replaces Con for hp @ 1HD
Mind over body (PGtF) Int/cha replaces Con for hp @ 1HD

...I'd swear there are a few more that change 1st lvl hp but I can't find them.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on September 09, 2022, 04:27:42 PM
They've been added, and now there's finally a feat under Variable/Other.

This kind of feat is always terrible so it's okay if you don't find any more.  :lol
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on October 10, 2022, 05:04:26 PM
from Polyhedron magazine #163 pg 112

Quote
Mantle of Freedom (General) {Polyhedron Magazine 163 112}
Your faith prevents you from being easily restrained or slowed.
Patron: Trithereon
Prerequisites: Iron Will.
Benefit: You add your Charisma bonus to all grapple checks, Escape Artist checks, and Strength checks made to break bonds. You gain a +2 sacred bonus to saving throws against paralysis, petrification, and any effect that hinders movement (such as slow).
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 11, 2022, 10:38:37 AM
Polyhedron 163 is in Dungeon 104 (https://index.rpg.net/display-entry.phtml?mainid=13975) so the Mantle of Freedom that is already listed is the same one that you suggested.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on October 11, 2022, 11:44:59 AM
damn... i hoped i found something new :-p
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 11, 2022, 12:40:50 PM
If it helps I don't want anyone to find anything new.   :lmao

Also I had to dig to confirm that it wasn't anything new.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: zook1shoe on October 11, 2022, 04:20:05 PM
how obscure 2nd party do you want to add stuff to the list?

Rokugan's Way of the Daimyo has a feat that grants your Wisdom mod as a bonus to your leadership score.
Title: Re: X Stat to Y Bonus Discussion Thread
Post by: Nanshork on October 12, 2022, 12:39:22 AM
Lol, we went over this many years ago. Dragon and Dungeon magazine are the only second party 3.5 sources I'm interested in adding

Edit: And Dragonlance IIRC.