Author Topic: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB  (Read 3323 times)

Offline Amechra

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The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« on: July 27, 2012, 12:47:23 PM »
Well, hello everyone; I've been thinking about this topic, and I have come up with some tinkering.

Now, I don't expect to fix everything, but, as I said, this is tinkering; if you see anything you violently disagree with (or that you think could be improved), and I will take it into account.

Now, on to the stuff!
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Offline Amechra

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Full Attack Changes
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2012, 12:47:49 PM »
First of all, you only ever get 1 attack in a Full Attack, unless an ability says otherwise; as long as your natural BAB is equal to your level, you may take 10 on your attack rolls.

However, starting at 6th level, you gain the ability to make a second attack at your full attack bonus; all attacks in a Full Attack must be targeted at the same creature (representing the fact that you aren't striking out multiple times, but are instead you moving the weapon in such a way that it really messes up the creature's innards); the only exception to this is when you are two-weapon fighting (which is an automatic thing; you don't get extra attacks from Two Weapon Fighting, but in return there is no feat tax. More on that later.), and when you kill or destroy a creature, in which case you may strike a different soon-to-be corpse (no point in clubbing a dead horse over and over again, is there?)

At +6 BAB, this brings a -2 penalty on all attacks in this round; at +11 BAB, this penalty goes away, and at +16 BAB, you get a +2 to hit on all attacks this round, as the placement of your weapon better lets you aim where you strike and how you twist that dagger just right to inflict maximum damage.

In addition, at +5 BAB, whenever you make a full attack, you get a +2 bonus to your AC for that round, as you correct your posture through an all out assault; this bonus to AC goes up by 2 at +10, +15, and +20 BAB. At +7 BAB, whenever you make a Full Attack, you may also make an attack as a Swift action; at +14 BAB, this is improved to making an attack as an Immediate action.

Finally, at +12 BAB you may double the damage each of your attacks does for that round whenever you make a full attack.

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« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 01:05:43 PM by Amechra »
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Offline Amechra

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Combat Techniques (New/Old)
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2012, 12:48:26 PM »
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« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2012, 12:48:52 PM »
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Offline Amechra

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« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2012, 12:49:29 PM »
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Offline Morph Bark

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 01:19:28 PM »
My main problems with this is that the progress with the amount and power of attacks isn't linear and appears to a bit random too, plus now you have to keep track of what benefits a certain amount of BAB grant and all that. In addition to that, an immediate action cannot be taken during your turn, but that's not much of an issue as it can be taken right after your turn, it just feel awkward in ruling.

I do like the idea of less rolls and less attacks. I don't really like the effective TWF nerf.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 01:44:05 PM »
You can take an immediate action on your turn, it's just a swift action at that point.
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Offline Ziegander

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2012, 02:02:59 PM »
I've actually been thinking of tinkering with the BAB rules recently, myself, so kudos to great minds!

What I've been considering doing is making the following changes:

  • Characters get a bonus [Combat] feat at BAB +1, and for every two points of BAB they possess. This replaces the Fighter class.
  • Bard gets d8 HD. Clerics and Druids are reduced to d6 HD and Poor BAB. Monk gets full BAB an d10 HD. Paladin gets d12 HD. Ranger gets d10 HD. Rogue gets d8 HD. Wizards and Sorcerers get d6 HD.
  • There is no "full attack action." Instead, characters get extra attacks in an attack action at BAB +6/+1, BAB +11/+6/+1, and at BAB +16/+11/+6/+1. An attack action is a standard action, as normal.
  • Characters are entitled to an attack action at the end of a Charge. This obviates the need for Pounce.
  • Characters may make a number of attacks of opportunity each round equal to the number of attacks they are entitled to make in a standard attack action. When an enemy provokes an attack of opportunity, the provoked character may respond with an attack action making any number of attacks in a single attack of opportunity as they wish, up to their per round limit, and suffering iterative attack penalties as normal. The penalties for iterative attacks made as attacks of opportunity carry over to the remaining attacks of opportunity a character has in the case that they split these attacks between different provoking creatures.This necessitates a change in the benefit of the Combat Reflexes feat.
  • Characters may split their movement and attacks as they wish, effectively granting characters with multiple attacks "free" Spring Attack/Bounding Assault/Rapid Blitz and so on.
  • Characters that fight with multiple weapons add off-hand attacks to their attack actions, thus granting them extra attacks to be used during attacks of opportunity.
  • Creatures with Intelligence 3 or less have BAB 0, regardless of class levels or HD; however, they gain a racial bonus to attack rolls equal to half their HD.
  • Manufactured weapons and natural weapons cannot be combined in an attack action. Creatures with both must choose which attacks to use when using the attack action (and when making attacks of opportunity for the round).
  • Pounce is now the purview of creatures with natural attacks that need to attack with several at the end of a charge.

As with any wide-sweeping changes like these, other minor changes would have to be made. For example, things like Divine Power and Tenser's Transformation would need to be edited.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:52:59 PM by Ziegander »

Offline Garryl

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Re: Full Attack Changes
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2012, 02:32:13 PM »
However, starting at 6th level, you gain the ability to make a second attack at your full attack bonus; all attacks in a Full Attack must be targeted at the same creature (representing the fact that you aren't striking out multiple times, but are instead you moving the weapon in such a way that it really messes up the creature's innards); the only exception to this is when you are two-weapon fighting (which is an automatic thing; you don't get extra attacks from Two Weapon Fighting, but in return there is no feat tax. More on that later.), and when you kill or destroy a creature, in which case you may strike a different soon-to-be corpse (no point in clubbing a dead horse over and over again, is there?)

The underlined parts seem contradictory. Why are you sometimes striking out multiple times and sometimes not? Especially when the times you are striking out multiple times (killing/destroying something), you probably have even more to do before attacking again (pulling your sword out of the corpse that's slumped over onto it).

Offline RedWarlock

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2012, 03:03:07 PM »
My own revisions of BAB are not far off, and have a lot in common with Zie's revision and your purpose:
  • The 'Full Attack' is gone as an action.
  • Criticals maximize the damage dice.
  • You have a number of 'Swings' determined by your BAB, 1 at first level, 2 at 6th level, and so on.
  • For each BAB-granted Swing you possess, your base damage multiplies by that many swings, including weapon dice and strength/etc bonus. (a BAB +11 character deals 3d6+6 rather than the stats-based 1d6+2)
  • If you miss, you can re-roll your attack, but at the loss of one damage multiplier on the hit. This repeats until your multiplier is 0.
  • Attacks of Opportunity are also a little different, you spend a Swing to make the AoO, meaning you might not get to attack on your turn if you made your 1 attack already. (Full-BAB classes get 1 extra swing as a class feature to make up for this, though it doesn't add weapon multiplier. Also, Combat Reflexes adds your Dex bonus to your number of Swings, but not extra damage multipliers.)
  • Two-Weapon Fighting, without the feat, adds the second weapon as bonus damage akin to a sneak attack, and gives you 2H str bonus. The feat itself allows you to split the weapons into two separate attack rolls, and grants extra swings for the off-hand weapon. (Further multi-target attacks are the domain of ToB-inherited maneuvers.)
  • Natural attacks are shifted to different actions, like a secondary Bite might be a swift action, or a Tail-Slap might be a Move action. (I also use 4e-style action-spending, meaning you can spend your Standard for a Move, or Standards and Moves for Swifts.)
  • Feint/Parry/Block and such would also spend swings when activated.
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Offline Amechra

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2012, 03:35:15 PM »
Hmm...

Alright, new idea; whenever you attack someone, you "invest" a number of attacks into that strike; each attack invested would normally just multiply damage (though magic/the combat techniques I'm going to stick in the second post gives you other things you can use them on). However, for every attack incorporated into a strike (or if you make multiple attacks), you get a penalty to hit according to some formula.

This allows the guy fighting with a dagger and making a BAJILLION attacks to be relatively balanced with the guy who wants to go with single, big attacks.
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Offline veekie

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Re: The Book of Mars; an Overhaul of BAB
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2012, 07:25:51 AM »
One possible consideration: Let BAB help determine AC(probably replace some of the standard magic AC sources), so that in itself, it provides all the necessary basic combat coverage for a character.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 07:28:09 AM by veekie »
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