Discussion

[sirpercival]

So... you're going to pick at least one spell per level for every Ideal? 

That's what I was thinking... though I guess I could do it more piecemeal.

[Garryl]

The following don't necessarily need to be dealt with now, but they will eventually.

The feats need to properly account for having more than one expressed ideal.
Ideals for multiclassing characters need to be dealt with. A dip in both Dragonmage and Wyrm Warrior gives 2*Cha+2 uses of ideal powers, 6 ideals known, and two ideals expressed (I think).
Wyrm Warrior's exotic weapon proficiencies granted by Primary Ideals should refer to the list of weapons associated with the ideal, not the weapons associated with the discipline associated with the ideal.

So... you're going to pick at least one spell per level for every Ideal? 

He's crazy, man. You should know this by now.

[sirpercival]

The following don't necessarily need to be dealt with now, but they will eventually.

The feats need to properly account for having more than one expressed ideal.

Yeah... that's true.

Ideals for multiclassing characters need to be dealt with. A dip in both Dragonmage and Wyrm Warrior gives 2*Cha+2 uses of ideal powers, 6 ideals known, and two ideals expressed (I think).

I'll put some rules for multiclassing into the first Ideals post.

Wyrm Warrior's exotic weapon proficiencies granted by Primary Ideals should refer to the list of weapons associated with the ideal, not the weapons associated with the discipline associated with the ideal.

Yes, true.  I'll fix that.

So... you're going to pick at least one spell per level for every Ideal? 

He's crazy, man. You should know this by now.

Hey, at least spells are a well-developed mechanic and there are tons of them written... I still have no idea what to do with Scalethief, and I'm considering axing it entirely.  It will bother me to have only two base classes, though... I feel like there should be at least three.

I wonder whether I shouldn't bother having a mechanic like the disciplines or spells for the Scalethief... but I'm not sure what to replace it with.

[sirpercival]

To make the multiclassing rules work a little more cleanly, I've tried altering the WW table, taking out the Ideals Known column and moving the Ideals-learning progression into the Special column kinda like an Ardent's mantles.  Does it make sense?

EDIT: I also added the multiclassing rules in the first post of the Ideals thread.  Do they work?  Should I give an example?


EDIT2: 6000th post!!!

[littha]

Don't forget the last set of planar dragon ideals in the original thread.

[sirpercival]

Don't forget the last set of planar dragon ideals in the original thread.

I won't forget -- I'll add them in the process of reformatting & adding to all the Ideals.

[Garryl]

To make the multiclassing rules work a little more cleanly, I've tried altering the WW table, taking out the Ideals Known column and moving the Ideals-learning progression into the Special column kinda like an Ardent's mantles.  Does it make sense?

EDIT: I also added the multiclassing rules in the first post of the Ideals thread.  Do they work?  Should I give an example?


EDIT2: 6000th post!!!

What if the knowledge of ideals what entirely based on your idealist level? Different idealist classes already stack for a singular idealist level.
When you gain your first idealist level, you learn three ideals. These are considered your primary ideals. At idealist level 2 and every 3 idealist levels thereafter, you learn an additional ideal.
This way, multiclassing can't stock you up on ideals, there's no finicky wording about which class has which as primary ideals, and so on and so forth. If you want a class to grant fewer ideals, you just give a lower idealist level.

Don't forget the last set of planar dragon ideals in the original thread.

I won't forget -- I'll add them in the process of reformatting & adding to all the Ideals.

And Gold Dragon, too.

[sirpercival]

What if the knowledge of ideals what entirely based on your idealist level? Different idealist classes already stack for a singular idealist level.
When you gain your first idealist level, you learn three ideals. These are considered your primary ideals. At idealist level 2 and every 3 idealist levels thereafter, you learn an additional ideal.
This way, multiclassing can't stock you up on ideals, there's no finicky wording about which class has which as primary ideals, and so on and so forth. If you want a class to grant fewer ideals, you just give a lower idealist level.

That's actually a very good idea, and makes writing PrCs very simple as well.

[sirpercival]

OK, the rules for Idealist level are now in the first Ideals post, and Wyrm Warrior has been updated to match.  The dead levels aren't actually dead because of the Ideal powers.  I'm going to go update Dragonmage as well.

Dragonmage updated.

[sirpercival]

OK, I had an awesome brainstorm for the Scalethief.  The only problem is that I'll have to axe the capstone for the Dragonmage...

[sirpercival]

Scalethief mechanics are up.  I know it can't be fully critiqued until at least one of the scaletheft progressions is posted, so I'll do one ASAP.

[Prime32]

The scalethief can spend two uses of his Ideal powers as a standard action to cause his wyrmspirit to become a normal corporeal dragon of the appropriate kind and age category for a number of rounds equal to the scalethief's Charisma modifier.

So... what's to stop you from turning the spirit into a wyrmling Time Dragon?

[Garryl]

Did I miss something, or is the dragon spirit always a wyrmling?

[sirpercival]

Did I miss something, or is the dragon spirit always a wyrmling?

No, it changes (it's on the table).

The scalethief can spend two uses of his Ideal powers as a standard action to cause his wyrmspirit to become a normal corporeal dragon of the appropriate kind and age category for a number of rounds equal to the scalethief's Charisma modifier.

So... what's to stop you from turning the spirit into a wyrmling Time Dragon?

I was thinking about that myself -- it's actually very simple (though I need to add the rules for this and edit the Ideals): the Epic dragons are Epic Ideals, which you have to have IL>20 to learn.  I've been thinking about epic rules for the classes, and this seemed elegant.  Once you're an epic Scalethief, you can get a wyrmling epic dragon.

[littha]

I was thinking about that myself -- it's actually very simple (though I need to add the rules for this and edit the Ideals): the Epic dragons are Epic Ideals, which you have to have IL>20 to learn.  I've been thinking about epic rules for the classes, and this seemed elegant.  Once you're an epic Scalethief, you can get a wyrmling epic dragon.

The Force Dragon Ideal needs to be a hell of a lot stronger if you can only take it at epic levels.

[sirpercival]

I was thinking about that myself -- it's actually very simple (though I need to add the rules for this and edit the Ideals): the Epic dragons are Epic Ideals, which you have to have IL>20 to learn.  I've been thinking about epic rules for the classes, and this seemed elegant.  Once you're an epic Scalethief, you can get a wyrmling epic dragon.

The Force Dragon Ideal needs to be a hell of a lot stronger if you can only take it at epic levels.

That's why I said I need to edit it

[FireInTheSky]

Can the wyrmspirit be affected by Force effects?

[sirpercival]

Can the wyrmspirit be affected by Force effects?

Not unless it's Shaped or Pacted.

[sirpercival]

Thanks to littha, I've posted a variant for True Dragons to branch out with their dragoninity by taking levels in Idealist classes.

[littha]

Thank's muchly, It looks (and reads) so much better with proper formatting.
Why did you go with the scales ability not adding energy resistance though? intrigued