Author Topic: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes  (Read 40463 times)

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #80 on: March 07, 2016, 05:50:37 PM »
I'll trust your math, you sound like you know what you're talking about.

Effective reduction in hits from +AC: (AC bonus / (21 - roll needed)) * 5% (ignoring the parts where you're only missing on nat 1s or on hitting on nat 20s)
Effective reduction in hits from miss chance: Miss chance% (duh)
Roll needed for parity: 21 - ((AC bonus * 5% / miss chance%) / 5%)

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I'll agree that rounds per day is bad because you can switch out auras.  Rounds per hour maybe?

Are you hinting that I need to help make an ACF?  :p

The only thing I should be hinting at is that my brain is still totally fried from spending ~30 hours over 4 days on a take-home midterm for Advanced Electromagnetics. If I never hear about radar cross-sections again... well, it'll kind of be a waste since I spent so much effort on it, but you know what I mean.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #81 on: March 07, 2016, 06:10:01 PM »
Yeah, I'm a nerd but not a math nerd.  :P


Well if you need a break from homebrew it wouldn't be the first time. 

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2016, 12:11:43 PM »
Just a little update. I added a bit to the Paladin spell list, mostly spells that I mistakenly thought were already there, but also some that I missed the first time around that fit with this version's slightly expanded themes.
  • 1st Level: Remove fear and shield of faith.
  • 2nd Level: Aid and spiritual weapon.
  • 3rd Level: Continual flame, create food and water, invisibility purge, magic vestment, and tongues.
  • 4th Level: Divine power.
  • 5th Level: True seeing.
  • 6th Level: Cloak of chaos, holy aura, and shield of law. (Yes, these are normally 8th-level spells for Clerics, but it really fits with the Paladin's kit, Paladins don't get them until 16th level anyways, and the Bard set a precedent for this sort of level reduction with irresistible dance already.)
I also made a minor change a week and a half ago with how Perseverance aura's delayed damage effect works to make it use the Crusader's Steely Resolve delayed damage pool mechanics instead of its own thing. Mostly this just means that you can now heal the damage while its still delayed, and that it works like something that already exists instead of being a unique thing with its own nuances to trip you up.

Edit: Added in spiritual weapon, too.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 01:41:39 PM by Garryl »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #83 on: June 17, 2016, 12:39:45 PM »
All of the changes sound good.  I don't have an issue with the reduced spell levels, paladins still get them after clerics do anyway.

Using existing mechanics is pretty much always a good thing in my opinion.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #84 on: June 17, 2016, 06:01:10 PM »
I'm moving Seeking Smite from 1st level to 2nd level. A swift action True Strike just feels too good as a 1st-level spell. I tried just dropping the attack bonus to +10, but it still handily beats out the target power level for a 1st-level spell once you throw Power Attack into the mix. Any lower attack bonus and it just wouldn't feel auto-hit-like enough. It's still distinctly more powerful than the nearest equivalent maneuver (Emerald Razor, one melee attack against touch AC as a standard action, Iron Heart 2) due to both being usable in a full attack, ignoring concealment, and giving an even greater effective attack bonus against foes with less than +20 armor/shield bonuses, which is appropriate given that it's a daily resource instead of one that is rechargeable mid-fight.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #85 on: June 17, 2016, 06:24:36 PM »
I can see that, I never realized that True Strike was a standard action.  Quickened True Strike is higher than a second level spell so moving it up beyond first is a good move.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #86 on: June 17, 2016, 10:59:17 PM »
I'm just spitballing some PrC ideas here, since I've got them.

Chromatic Warlord
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Dragon Champion
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Gemstone Aspirant
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Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #87 on: June 18, 2016, 11:00:49 AM »
I like them!

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #88 on: June 19, 2016, 12:18:13 PM »
Non-minor auras that gave bonuses to skills, to saves against specific, limited effects, and to other things that minor auras can boost equally effectively now do so at twice your aura bonus. They were generally feeling kinda weaksauce benefits compared to other auras. It also fits with the precedent set by the Paladin's more recently adjusted Cleansing, Courage, and Resolve auras.

Also, Knowledge (Divine Mind) and Insight (Dragon Shaman) auras got buffed to give automatic disbelief/recognition saves on nearby illusions. They needed something extra added in, since before they were just skill and very limited save bonuses.

Are there any other auras that still seem way too weak and never worth taking?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #89 on: June 19, 2016, 04:43:00 PM »
Auras

Divine Mind
Consumption - does this include spell attacks?

(Also, the ACF link is broken.  Here's a working one: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)


Dragon Shaman
Everything looks worth okay.


Marshal
Bloodlust - does this include spell attacks?


Paladin
Alacracity - why doesn't this get the skill bonuses the movement speed auras of the other classes grant?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #90 on: June 19, 2016, 06:13:21 PM »
Auras

Divine Mind
Consumption - does this include spell attacks?

Marshal
Bloodlust - does this include spell attacks?

I think I originally intended it not to, but I don't think it would be imbalanced. I'll have to adjust the wording and put in some safeguards to prevent any broken interactions (such as a permanent Wall of Fire back home with a continuous stream of summoned creatures walking into it for a continuous stream of healing, or Fireball on an anthill to heal from each ant).

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Paladin
Alacracity - why doesn't this get the skill bonuses the movement speed auras of the other classes grant?

Probably a leftover from early design when I was still working out the exact details of how a Paladin's auras would be weaker for allies. The skill bonus is in now. Also, I replaced the bonus on saves against movement-impairing effects (which should have been doubled in this morning's pass) with immunity to fatigue and exhaustion (it felt too much of an overlap with Freedom aura's Freedom of Movement effect and the straight-up identical bonus it granted as a general aura effect).

Also, Clarity aura now also grants personal immunity to blinding and dazzling. The reduced aura radius hits it a bit harder than other auras ported from other classes, since the whole "see through darkness" bit is directly tied to the aura's tiny radius.

I'm thinking about adding a bit more to the Cleansing, Courage, and Resolve auras. Not too much, since they do give immunity to effects that are somewhat more common than the newly-added immunities mentioned above, but they still fee like they need a bit.

Am I just power creeping? I always worry about that when I get into a cycle of buffing things.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #91 on: June 19, 2016, 08:32:58 PM »
Well, cleansing could maybe use some adjustment because you get immunity to disease as a class ability. 

Courage is in line with other class auras.

Resolve seems fine, it compares to the bonuses vs mind-affecting auras.  Double the bonus but only against two common types of mind-affecting effects seems okay.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #92 on: June 20, 2016, 01:31:20 PM »
Well, cleansing could maybe use some adjustment because you get immunity to disease as a class ability. 

Courage is in line with other class auras.

Resolve seems fine, it compares to the bonuses vs mind-affecting auras.  Double the bonus but only against two common types of mind-affecting effects seems okay.

More spitballing of ideas. This time for replacements of the Fort/Ref/Will save bonuses of Cleansing/Courage/Resolve.
- Cleansing: +2b save vs. disease/poison, +2b on Heal checks, act as though having b fewer negative levels and 2b less ability damage/drain to each ability score that is damaged/drained. Personal: Immune to disease/poison, heal b points of ability damage to a single score every round.
- Courage: +2b save vs. fear, +b attack and AC until the start of your next turn (ie: while charging's AC penalty lasts) when you charge. Personal: Immune to fear, +bd6 damage on charge attack.
- Resolve: +2b save vs. charm/compulsion, +b attack and AC while fighting defensively, using total defense, or going at least +/-3 with Combat Expertise. Personal: Immune to charm/compulsion, +2b DR while fighting defensively, using total defense, or going at least +/-3 with Combat Expertise.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #93 on: June 20, 2016, 03:53:28 PM »
Cleansing is interesting, I've never seen a mechanic that ignores ability score/level drain.  Seems a little clunky.

Courage is fine.

Resolve is fine except that I've never seen anyone fight defensively/use total defense/use Combat Expertise.  :p


Giving more unique bonuses is something I approve of since we've got a bonus to all saves aura already.

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #94 on: June 20, 2016, 04:28:39 PM »
Cleansing is interesting, I've never seen a mechanic that ignores ability score/level drain.  Seems a little clunky.

I figured counting as having a lesser penalty was less likely to open up the sort of crazily unintended combos that my first idea (Strongheart Vest-style ability damage/drain reduction) would.

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Courage is fine.

Resolve is fine except that I've never seen anyone fight defensively/use total defense/use Combat Expertise.  :p

Well, hopefully this might make them able to show up a bit more. Total Defense still sucks, because you're giving up your turn that could be better spent making people unable to attack you in the first place. Fighting defensively, though, is -4 attack for +2 AC (or +3 AC if you have 5 ranks in Tumble) as part of making other attacks, so this aura would mitigate its penalties (eventually negating them entirely at 18th level and leaving it with just +6 AC).

Might go for something else defensive instead, though. I'm not quite feeling it.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #95 on: June 20, 2016, 04:51:43 PM »
Strongheart vest style would be easier.  Hmm, you could try to negate abuse by saying that it doesn't heal ability score burn and also doesn't heal any ability score damage taken voluntarily by using racial/class abilities.  I'm not saying that's better, or even less clunky.  It's just what came to mind.


Defensive alternative ideas for resolve:
 - damage reduction
 - temp hp
 - something like the deflect arrows feat but without needing a free hand (shrugging off ranged attacks basically)?

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #96 on: June 20, 2016, 10:37:39 PM »
Here's what I've got now.

  • Cleansing: Allies gain a bonus equal to twice your aura bonus on Heal checks and on saves against disease and poison. Whenever an ally would suffer ability damage or ability drain, the amount of it that they receive is reduced by half your aura bonus, rounded up. This cannot reduce the damage or drain to less than 1, however.
    Personal: You are immune to disease and poison. At the start of your turn, you cure an amount of ability damage equal to your aura bonus to one of your ability scores (you can choose which one each turn).

  • Courage: Allies gain a bonus equal to twice your aura bonus on saves against fear effects. Allies gain a bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls made as part of a charge.
    Personal: You are immune to fear. When you perform a charge, you gain a bonus to your Armor Class until the start of your next turn.

  • Resolve: Allies gain a bonus equal to twice your aura bonus on saves against charm effects and compulsion effects and on checks, rolls, and saves made to resist being bull rushed, tripped, or forcibly moved.
    Personal: You are immune to charms and compulsions. You can stand from prone as a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Also, I'm thinking about slightly weakening Righteousness, dropping the personal bonus damage against evil from 1d6 to 1d4 and changing it to only block summoned creatures from touching your allies, not entering the aura's area (as protection from evil, rather than magic circle against evil).

Edit: Also, I buffed the Divine Mind's Time mantle aura to give a Crusader-like delayed damage pool, too. It was in desperate need of something. I would not be surprised if there are still more mantle auras that could use a buff.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 10:56:19 PM by Garryl »

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #97 on: June 20, 2016, 11:54:50 PM »
The halving part of cleansing is a perfect compromise, I like it.

Courage looks good.

Resolve also looks good.  I like the "forcibly moved" addition, but does that also apply to spells?  What if someone casts that spell that's the offensive version of benign transposition for example?  (This applies to all other auras that have this language.  I'm tired, it makes my brain go in new and interesting directions.)

The Divine Mind auras are based off of the "protection from xxx" spells so I think the weakening of the aura is in order.  Also, Physical Power is 1d4 damage.

Natural World could probably use a small boost.  Having spell and power resistance as two separate auras could be combined, especially since default is that SR applies to powers and PR applies to spells. 

Offline Garryl

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #98 on: June 21, 2016, 02:32:57 AM »
Force mantle aura now more explicit about applying to everything. Light and Darkness mantle aura now also boosts Hide and Spot checks. The Planes mantle aura increased to 10 feet/bonus (instead of 5), and now addresses line of sight, line of effect, and teleporting into impassable spaces.

Still working on a good wording for Consumption (mantle) and Bloodlust (major) auras to work well with spells and powers and stuff.

I want to do a pass on the Marshal's auras, too. They're in a similar boat to the Divine Mind's auras. I'm pretty sure the Dragon Shaman is A-okay, though (aside from one or two auras that are carbon copies of other classes' auras). Ditto for the Paladin (nothing jumps out at me as an obvious issue), although I'm waffling a bit about maybe making Perseverance and Wrath work with give acid and sonic, too (it's a conceptual holdover from Diablo 2's Paladin, from which many of the auras were developed).

Resolve also looks good.  I like the "forcibly moved" addition, but does that also apply to spells?  What if someone casts that spell that's the offensive version of benign transposition for example?  (This applies to all other auras that have this language.  I'm tired, it makes my brain go in new and interesting directions.)

To spells? Yes. If you were hit by an Explosive Spell metamagicked Fireball, for example, you would get a bonus on your save.

Against teleportation? Not sure. Teleportation has always been a bit iffy on whether or not it's movement or something else (case in point, the numerous discussions and rulings about its interaction with Skirmish). I might come back to it once it's not late at night.

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Natural World could probably use a small boost.

Any ideas? Don't know if it matters, but that's one aura effect that's in use by all 4 of the classes.

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Having spell and power resistance as two separate auras could be combined, especially since default is that SR applies to powers and PR applies to spells.

I don't see quite the same need for it as you do, but neither am I averse to it. If you have any ideas for Magic or Mental Power auras, I can work that in and shift the SR/PR onto the other one. This late at night, I certainly don't have any.

Offline Nanshork

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Re: Leaders of Men - Aura Classes
« Reply #99 on: June 21, 2016, 10:38:26 AM »
Consumptive/Bloodlust, do you want it on attack spells (like melf's acid arrow) or all spells (like fireball/magic missile)?

Natural World, the best I can come up with is either granting a type of movement speed at higher bonuses or maybe granting a ten foot step instead of a five foot step at higher bonuses.

SR/PR - I don't have anything to replace one of the existing auras.  It isn't a huge deal to keep both, it's just that in most games they're effectively the same (not that there aren't plenty of other auras to choose from).  Honestly I'm now of the opinion to just leave it since there are equivalent auras in other classes.

Marshal Auras
Everything seems fine to me, what do you want to buff?