Author Topic: Pure Crafting  (Read 61326 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #200 on: August 13, 2017, 08:32:47 PM »
Pure Lead is probably a bit too powerful.
Could you be a bit more specific? :psyduck

Some questions:
When it comes to cutting limbs, you target every eye a creature has with one hit?
Good point, limited to up to two eyes per hit and only blinded if no eyes left.

Something else I noticed:
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Heavy Armor+Tower Shield all of the previous bonus plus you become immune to effects that don't affect objects
I this meant to apply to all effects or only for the effects that demand a fort save, such as it normally is for the undead (which seems to be the intent)?
Another good point, fixed, thanks.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #201 on: August 13, 2017, 11:07:41 PM »
...At this point, I'm tempted to reword the entire setup to be mechanically equal, but much cleaner by using tables. Which save so much wording trouble. It wouldn't be the first time I was peeved enough by the wording of a homebrew to reword most of the thing. Granted, I'm pretty sure that was a hot garbage fire of a class concept to begin with, due to the sheer number of attacks available making deletion of single targets far too easy, but I was actually thinking about how to fix the monstrosity's damage output and make significant room for archetypes on top of that. I guess that'll be the next thing I do on this thread, possibly followed by fixing the mess of wording in the metals. If I can figure out what the hell the effects are from that wording...

The big thing is that the wording is bloated and confusing enough that, as I dig into it and puzzle it out, I'm finding more and more of my complaints aren't valid. After checking half-a-dozen times to be sure I understand the mechanics correctly. I'm still not sure how the heck the costs and crafting time work because of how poor the wording is. Like, I'm confused enough by the poor wording(more the issues with focusing on specific parts of the bloated blocks of text that abound in the description) that I can't figure out which of these two tables is the way it actually "works."

(click to show/hide)

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The confusion is caused by these lines:

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Those upgrades may be done to already existing Pure Metal items, and each of them further doubles the item's HP.
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If the crafter has at least 12 ranks in Craft(Weaponsmithing), they can make it Relicwork for an extra 3500 GP worth of materials and 72 hour of work.
The bolded part is the part of the repeated line that is making me wonder if it is iterative increases, like the second table, and it's three words of the line. This confusion wouldn't happen if it was a table, like I showed, or if the specified cost was the total and the first quote specified that you payed and worked the difference.

I'm really tempted to pull a piece-by-piece rewording like I did in the linked thread, just so that I can be sure I don't miss anything. Granted, in that thread, I largely abandoned the attempt due to how long it was taking. Here, I can at least take it one part at a time. Base system, then the materials one-at-a-time, then the feats, using the material rewording/critique posts as a reference to judge interactions between mixed materials.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #202 on: August 14, 2017, 07:44:32 PM »
(click to show/hide)
That is the correct table, but it's missing the extra costs for the base pure weapon and base special materials.

The confusion is caused by these lines:

Quote
Those upgrades may be done to already existing Pure Metal items, and each of them further doubles the item's HP.
Quote
If the crafter has at least 12 ranks in Craft(Weaponsmithing), they can make it Relicwork for an extra 3500 GP worth of materials and 72 hour of work.
The bolded part is the part of the repeated line that is making me wonder if it is iterative increases, like the second table, and it's three words of the line. This confusion wouldn't happen if it was a table, like I showed, or if the specified cost was the total and the first quote specified that you payed and worked the difference.
Meh, if I had put full costs then people would be claiming the upgrade options are unclear.
And the thing with "final cost" table is that one won't cut it because most special materials have specific extra costs (like adamantine) so one needs a table per metal. Did I mention how the extra cost for basic adamantine depends on armor grade? Or weight for weapons? Thus a table of final costs for adamantine alone could easily reach a hundred lines when you take in account all the weapons printed for 3.5.

But if you're willing to do said tables, I'll take them.

Offline Versatility_Nut

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #203 on: August 14, 2017, 10:48:22 PM »
That is the correct table, but it's missing the extra costs for the base pure weapon and base special materials.
Which is solved by just making sure the wording states that the cost is after the base weapon and special material costs.

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Meh, if I had put full costs then people would be claiming the upgrade options are unclear.
People who say those are unclear likely have the same complaint about magic item upgrading, given that pay the difference is the way magic items get improved. Here's the wording magic items use:
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A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword.

Quote
And the thing with "final cost" table is that one won't cut it because most special materials have specific extra costs (like adamantine) so one needs a table per metal. Did I mention how the extra cost for basic adamantine depends on armor grade? Or weight for weapons? Thus a table of final costs for adamantine alone could easily reach a hundred lines when you take in account all the weapons printed for 3.5.

But if you're willing to do said tables, I'll take them.
Again, just have one line making it clear that the Pure Crafting costs come after the special materials. And having the column for price just be labeled "cost." I used Total Cost as the label to make it be clearly stating the question.

And it's too late for me to reword the mess of a system at this point... Last time, it was a good three hours of effort to figure out how the heck the things actually worked. It'd probably take less time, here, because the wording is at least grammatically correct and what it says is largely what seems intended, but there's also more to go over. Rewording/editing will have to wait for later. If ever, given the possiblity of me just flat out forgetting about it.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Pure Crafting
« Reply #204 on: August 15, 2017, 05:26:49 PM »
That is the correct table, but it's missing the extra costs for the base pure weapon and base special materials.
Which is solved by just making sure the wording states that the cost is after the base weapon and special material costs.
It's of the first things explained:
Quote
You can now craft Pure Metal items (any metal weapons if you have the ranks in Weaponsmithing, any metal armor if you have the ranks in Armorsmithing, all metal options if you have ranks in the two skills). This works as normal crafting, but takes 8 hours of  time regardless of the item to be crafted(as long as it is whitin your light carrying capacity, regular crafting time otherwise) and raw material costs are increased by 200 GP, as you need to properly purify them (those materials must still be acquired directly from the material plane, materials created/altered by magic or from the other planes are plain useless for Pure Crafting).

And then masterwork is the usual extra cost and the superior grades are explicitly called extras too.

But I guess redundancy is important too, and somethings just need to be repeated over and over for certain people to understand. Case in point the limitation on the use of power points for psionics that's only mentioned once and thus often overlooked so lots of players think you can just sink as many pp as you want in a single manifesting. I'll see to adding a FAQ later since the main post is kinda too bloated as it is.