Author Topic: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?  (Read 2799 times)

Offline phaedrusxy

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One of the Blood Quickening rituals of the Spellscale race gives +1/2 their character level as a bonus on Spellcraft checks. This could be tremendous for an Incantatrix... Would Alter Self allow them to skim this, or would they actually need to be a spellscale?

One the one hand, it is a racial bonus to a skill, which the spell normally grants. On the other hand, Spellscales have to do a ritual in the morning to choose which boon to get for the day...
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Offline faeryn

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 12:14:09 AM »
Given the fact that Alterself does NOT grant you the extraordinary or special attacks or abilities of the assumed form... no... you could not benefit from Blood Quickening via Alter Self...


You can however become a spellscale permanantly via a ritual...

Quote
of Spellscale Assumption enables individuals of other races to become spellscales.

Rite of Spellscale Assumption Edit
The Rite of Spellscale Assumption is a rare procedure that allows a character to fully manifest latent draconic potential within his body, transforming from a member of his original race into a spellscale.

Becoming a spellscale is a choice that is made only after long consideration. Giving up one’s heritage is not to be done impulsively. It is a choice one makes knowing full well that when the rite is complete, all vestiges of one’s former race are wiped away, replaced by a body and a look that might at first seem alien and awkward.

When the rite begins, the subject spends six consecutive days fasting and meditating on texts discussing spellscale history, demeanor, and characteristics. The character uses this time to fully get into the heart of what it means to be a spellscale.

After the meditation ends, the prospective spellscale bathes in a special mixture of fragrant salts, water, and dragon scales for 24 hours, with a spellscale ritualist standing over the water, chanting the words of the rite. When the period of chanting has passed, the character arises from the bath. As he does so, he finds himself magically transformed into a spellscale.

Prerequisites: Any willing humanoid can undergo the Rite of Spellscale Assumption. The rite must be performed by a spellscale who can cast the polymorph spell and who has at least 10 ranks in Knowledge (arcana).

Benefit: This ceremony converts any nondraconic humanoid into a spellscale. A character who undertakes this rite is stripped of all his racial traits, and in their place gains the racial traits of the spellscale race. See the Substituting Spellscale Racial Traits sidebar for details.

Time: The Rite of Spellscale Assumption takes seven consecutive days to complete. The ritual cannot be conducted on an unwilling subject.

Cost: This rite requires special salts and a collection of dragon scales gathered from ancient dragons of varying colors. These materials cost 2,000 gp.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 12:31:08 AM »
Hmm... interesting. So a human would lose their bonus feat and skill points I guess? That might be worth considering...

However, I'm not quite convinced that Blood Quickening is actually a racial ability of any kind. It's a ritual, which is a set of behaviors done methodically. Anyone could do it, but only Spellscales would actually get anything mechanically from it. It's basically how they choose their racial abilities for the day, but perhaps isn't a racial ability itself...

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Offline faeryn

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 06:48:25 AM »
The ritual itself could be performed, but there wouldn't be a benefit from it unless you were actually a spellscale... it's kinda like trying to use a magic item that imparts a special benefit to beings of a certain race... you could use it normally but won't get anything special out of it unless your a member of that race.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 06:50:08 AM by faeryn »

Offline Gazzien

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2015, 01:40:57 AM »
You could maybe get it by using Alter Self and then performing the ritual.

Offline faeryn

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2015, 01:58:01 AM »
You could maybe get it by using Alter Self and then performing the ritual.

Thats what he was already implying... and what I already said won't work... Alter Self doesn't give you the abilities of the race, only the physical characteristics.

Offline linklord231

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2015, 03:26:33 AM »
Interesting.  Alter Self unambiguously gives racial skill bonuses, but might not give the special quality Blood Quickening, which gives you the racial bonus in the first place. 

Ultimately it boils down to whether you believe Blood Quickening is Ex or Su.  If it's Ex, then Alter Self grants it.  If it's Su, then it doesn't.  The sample Spellscale NPCs in the book are printed with the new statblock that doesn't specify whether a special quality is Ex, Sp, or Su, so we can't tell for certain.  It's a DM's call.

Interestingly, Alter Self also grants racial bonus feats, so you'd probably get whatever feat is tied to your Blood Quickening choice as well. 

Personally, I tend to rule in favor of the player if something is ambiguous, so I'd say that it works.  However, activating Blood Quickening takes an hour, and I'd rule that time spent meditating counts against the duration of the spell, so they'd have to be at least 7th level to get any benefit out of it.
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Offline faeryn

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2015, 04:26:26 AM »
Interesting.  Alter Self unambiguously gives racial skill bonuses, but might not give the special quality Blood Quickening, which gives you the racial bonus in the first place. 

Ultimately it boils down to whether you believe Blood Quickening is Ex or Su.  If it's Ex, then Alter Self grants it.  If it's Su, then it doesn't.  The sample Spellscale NPCs in the book are printed with the new statblock that doesn't specify whether a special quality is Ex, Sp, or Su, so we can't tell for certain.  It's a DM's call.

Interestingly, Alter Self also grants racial bonus feats, so you'd probably get whatever feat is tied to your Blood Quickening choice as well. 

Personally, I tend to rule in favor of the player if something is ambiguous, so I'd say that it works.  However, activating Blood Quickening takes an hour, and I'd rule that time spent meditating counts against the duration of the spell, so they'd have to be at least 7th level to get any benefit out of it.

Um...

Quote
You acquire the physical qualities of the new form while retaining your own mind. Physical qualities include natural size, mundane movement capabilities (such as burrowing, climbing, walking, swimming, and flight with wings, to a maximum speed of 120 feet for flying or 60 feet for nonflying movement), natural armor bonus, natural weapons (such as claws, bite, and so on), racial skill bonuses, racial bonus feats, and any gross physical qualities (presence or absence of wings, number of extremities, and so forth). A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two-weapon attacks) than normal.
You do not gain any extraordinary special attacks or special qualities not noted above under physical qualities, such as darkvision, low-light vision, blindsense, blindsight, fast healing, regeneration, scent, and so forth.
You do not gain any supernatural special attacks, special qualities, or spell-like abilities of the new form. Your creature type and subtype (if any) remain the same regardless of your new form. You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn't change the creature type or subtype.

Ex or Su doesn't matter... it doesn't grant either. Blood Quickening doesn't come across as a physical quality, so it's unlikely to be granted by Alter Self

Offline linklord231

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Re: Alter Self into a Spellscale, gain 1/2 character level to Spellcraft?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2015, 09:16:52 AM »
You're putting the emphasis on the wrong part. You don't gain any Ex special qualities not noted above.
Extraordinary special qualities that are noted above, such as racial skill bonuses, are given.

Supernatural special qualities are not given, regardless of whether they're noted above or not.
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