Author Topic: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question  (Read 4681 times)

Offline Jalle

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'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« on: November 17, 2015, 09:39:58 AM »
So I'm fiddling with a gestalt swiftblade / scout build and I got a pretty cool idea that I think works RAW but I’m not entirely sure (so I’m asking you guys), while being curious if you would allow it at your table even though it is RAW. The question is about the interaction between the rogue variant that gets fighter feats instead of sneak attack and the feat “Swift ambusher”, that stacks rogue and scouts level for the purpose of skirmish damage.

Here’s the feat:

Quote
Prerequisite
Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, Sneak attack +1d6,

Benefit
Your rogue and scout levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage and bonus to Armor Class granted when skirmishing. For example, a 4th-level scout/7th-level rogue would deal an extra 3d6 points of damage and gain a +3 competence bonus to AC when skirmishing, as if she were an 11th-level scout. In addition, you can qualify for ambush feats (see page 71) as if your sneak attack bonus damage were the sum of your skirmish damage and sneak attack bonus damage. You cannot sacrifice skirmish extra damage to use those feats, however.

So could I, with this feat (which I can qualify to with three levels of scout and dipping any sneak attack class like spellthief), get both fighter feats AND progress my skirmish damage simply by leveling rogue? And would you allow this? It seems that it is RAI that the +1d6 sneak attack comes from rogue, but in reality it doesn’t really have to be.

EDIT: Another question! Do any of you guys know whether levels in this feat rogue variant count as figher levels for the purpose of selecting specific figher feats, such as "weapon specialization" that requires 4 levels of fighter?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2015, 10:27:55 AM by Jalle »

Offline Gazzien

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2015, 01:05:38 PM »
Yeah, you could. It works RAW, and I (personally) would allow it.

AFAIK, you don't count them as fighter levels.

Offline Jalle

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2015, 04:53:44 PM »
Yeah, you could. It works RAW, and I (personally) would allow it.

AFAIK, you don't count them as fighter levels.

Thanks for the reply!

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2015, 05:22:52 PM »
alt source for "Sneak attack +1d6" , if so Check.
Rogue is Rogue, even if alternative Rogue, Check.

But the Rogue variant doesn't have a "Sneak attack"
progression at all, to be progressed by the feat.

Something more like a Bard 1 / Class X with the feat
that advances the bardic thingie.
normal Rogue 1 / Scout X / Fighter 2 or a major (dead-)fighter bloodline
is more what you have in mind.

However, I do recall some aguments that Tash + Monk
progression can happen without any Monk levels.
iirc Lycan pimped that, and SorO anti-pimped it.

If you're going that way, sure it works ; tho' disputed.
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline Kaelik

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2015, 08:14:06 PM »
alt source for "Sneak attack +1d6" , if so Check.
Rogue is Rogue, even if alternative Rogue, Check.

But the Rogue variant doesn't have a "Sneak attack"
progression at all, to be progressed by the feat.

Something more like a Bard 1 / Class X with the feat
that advances the bardic thingie.
normal Rogue 1 / Scout X / Fighter 2 or a major (dead-)fighter bloodline
is more what you have in mind.

However, I do recall some aguments that Tash + Monk
progression can happen without any Monk levels.
iirc Lycan pimped that, and SorO anti-pimped it.

If you're going that way, sure it works ; tho' disputed.

You aren't getting SA progression from the feat, because the feat doesn't grant SA no matter what Rogue class you take, it grants Skirmish damage. So you get Fighter feats + Skirmish damage from the same class. Given how garbage bad Fighter feats, and how generally pathetic Skirmish is, it certainly isn't even as strong as Straight Rogue.

Offline Jackinthegreen

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2015, 10:56:21 PM »
Yup, the skirmish progression would still work with feat rogue.  Just get the 1d6 SA from another source (hello Assassin's Stance!) and you'll qualify.  Though you'll be a more powerful character if you simply stick with feat rogue the whole way through.  The main thing that redeems scout is Swift Hunter.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2015, 05:06:00 PM »
I know (now) I made a boo-boo in there,
but I think the distinction still matters between
an actual Rogue level (providing sneak attack) and
a manuever that provides sneak attack but not Rogue levels.

While you are in this stance, you gain the sneak attack ability, if you do not already have it, which deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. If you already have the sneak attack class feature, your existing sneak attack ability deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. See the rogue class feature (PH 50) for a complete description of sneak attack.


(aDMg translation program froze)
Your codpiece is a mimic.

Offline faeryn

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Re: 'Feat rogue' and 'Swift ambusher'-feat question
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2015, 12:03:57 AM »
I know (now) I made a boo-boo in there,
but I think the distinction still matters between
an actual Rogue level (providing sneak attack) and
a manuever that provides sneak attack but not Rogue levels.

While you are in this stance, you gain the sneak attack ability, if you do not already have it, which deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. If you already have the sneak attack class feature, your existing sneak attack ability deals an extra 2d6 points of damage. See the rogue class feature (PH 50) for a complete description of sneak attack.


(aDMg translation program froze)

Well, they did say they were going to dip into another SA granting class (such as spellthief) to get the SA class feature to qualify for the feat.

All of that does appear to be pretty RAW friendly, and I don't think there are too many DMs who wouldn't allow it...