Author Topic: General Discussion and Suggestions  (Read 211583 times)

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #420 on: October 24, 2016, 02:32:30 AM »
Sound. Thanks for your thoroughness.

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"CAST type is minor" since it's pretty much the same as warforged and warforged are one of the most popular 3.5 races.
Thought the immunities it does get were denied as well. Didn't see it right. Never mind!

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Friendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.
Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
That might be pretty hard considering they don't even have to be there. They can take turns using it while miles away in their homes since they don't even require being close or even seeing the fight.

Even with proximity rules, they could be standing about in plain sight among other civilians and watching the fight. Can't start a witch-hunt in the middle of a fight so you're mostly stuck with indiscriminate slaughter.
I don't see a way to stop abusing this that doesn't involve a cooldown between applications. One 2nd effect per round and one 3rd effect per minute or somesuch. There's certainly another ways to deal with it but as is it is way too easy. Or then everyone gets a hundred minion spammers and the fights never end.

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Random musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?
Tricky. Something to consider... would removing all extra reactor options be a bad thing? Or perhaps increasing the recovery cost of the maneuvers to make them harder to spam.
Getting more energy already increases the amount recovered every round, so having enough energy is still possible to those that invest in it while making it harder to manage for those who don't. Maybe coupled with lower energy gains if you want to make it harder to manage.
The maneuver's energy-based recovery otherwise has to be revamped with your suggested standardization. If you do bring it to every maneuver's recovery costing the same, however, you may have to bring back the readied maneuvers since the resource per level is no longer linked to their power (since having acces to everything known like a sorcerer is no longer limited by higher costs for strongest stuff).
I'd say go for standardization since many low-level maneuvers scale and having to get the costs to account for it (such as they do with psionic powers) is too much of a hassle.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 03:20:25 AM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #421 on: October 24, 2016, 05:06:33 AM »
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Friendship/Devotion relationship feat: Same as Cheer, with a group of minions that keep bringing you back/giving you rerolls and the like.
Well that's actually intended to promote "kill the mooks first/simultaneously!".
That might be pretty hard considering they don't even have to be there. They can take turns using it while miles away in their homes since they don't even require being close or even seeing the fight.
Actually they do, since you can't take immediate actions if flat-footed.

Even with proximity rules, they could be standing about in plain sight among other civilians and watching the fight. Can't start a witch-hunt in the middle of a fight so you're mostly stuck with indiscriminate slaughter.
That's surprisingly appropriate for the mecha genre. Either make sure to evacuate the civilians or you need to butcher everything that moves just to be sure.

I don't see a way to stop abusing this that doesn't involve a cooldown between applications. One 2nd effect per round and one 3rd effect per minute or somesuch. There's certainly another ways to deal with it but as is it is way too easy. Or then everyone gets a hundred minion spammers and the fights never end.
If you have a hundred minion spammer that can you can customise the stats for, then it's pretty hard to end the fight even with no relationship feats.

But fair enough, nerfed the third options so that you can only use them if adjacent to your special one.

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Random musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?
Tricky. Something to consider... would removing all extra reactor options be a bad thing? Or perhaps increasing the recovery cost of the maneuvers to make them harder to spam.
Getting more energy already increases the amount recovered every round, so having enough energy is still possible to those that invest in it while making it harder to manage for those who don't. Maybe coupled with lower energy gains if you want to make it harder to manage.
The maneuver's energy-based recovery otherwise has to be revamped with your suggested standardization. If you do bring it to every maneuver's recovery costing the same, however, you may have to bring back the readied maneuvers since the resource per level is no longer linked to their power (since having acces to everything known like a sorcerer is no longer limited by higher costs for strongest stuff).
I'd say go for standardization since many low-level maneuvers scale and having to get the costs to account for it (such as they do with psionic powers) is too much of a hassle.
Basic layout I have in my mind is something along the lines of:
-Base energy is 100. Some robots may have less or more but always on the same scale.
-You only recover 5 energy per round base.
-Arsenal options and super robot upgrades increase that by small increments.
-Maneuvers cost would remain the same. So a 9th level maneuver (45 energy) eats almost half your base energy while a 1st level maneuver (5 energy) can be spammed every round.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #422 on: October 24, 2016, 05:12:39 AM »
But then how do I nova my energy reserves with 2-4 maneuvers in a single round!?

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #423 on: October 24, 2016, 05:25:15 AM »
Preventing nova of max-level maneuvers would be an intended effect.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #424 on: October 24, 2016, 06:49:31 AM »
Well I'm just saying a base energy of 100 utterly murders the moon vanguard's recovery mechanic when the regen rate starts at 5 and sounds to barely increase beyond. Not to mention when combined with Main Weapon super upgrades and that each square of flight would then cost 5% of your total energy. Fly ten spaces and suddenly you're at half energy and you can almost forget being capable of actually moving more than a double move without dropping out of the sky like a rock and that's before counting energy costs of maneuvers and/or extra energy costs of maneuvers than also provide free action movement.

On the upside, it would incredibly devalue the necessity and overpoweredness of the Zeal Spirit  :smirk

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #425 on: October 24, 2016, 07:28:40 AM »
Flight movement would be adjusted to 1 energy per 5 mu of course.

Moon Vanguard recovery actually pulls ahead before 5th level maneuvers. Low level ones would be dirt cheap to recover when you have 100 energy. Only by 6th-9th you need to pay more, and then you'll have 6+ maneuvers readied which don't need energy to be used the first time. And then  a Moon Vanguard would also have Overdrive System at least 2 times per day.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #426 on: October 24, 2016, 08:33:56 AM »
If energy regen is that tight, it sounds like readied maneuvers are going to give you more opportunity to use even mid-level maneuvers. Let alone counters. Also moving, and in some scenarios normal attacks.

Also, reminder that two of the arsenal options take more than 100 energy per attack. :lmao
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 08:39:12 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #427 on: October 24, 2016, 11:22:06 AM »
My only issue that I can see with the new size scaling is that it makes it a little awkward because you have to roll multiple die sizes on your weapon. But that's a minor gripe at best given what it fixes

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #428 on: October 24, 2016, 12:55:12 PM »
Random musings: I was thinking about removing energy progression and standardizing costs, since right now energy reserves scale pretty quickly but energy costs don't scale at all. Make energy work more like how arsenal costs work right now. Anyone has thoughts on it?
Energy does need reworked by quite a bit. The weapons go from barely using it, with no notation if it's per hit/missed attack or per round for ambiguity too, to here is a 200 energy antimatter sword, so hope you saved up.

Racial abilities pass to the mecha.
So a Shifter piloting a Mech can grow claws?

Cheer/Fortune spirits: Might want to put a limit to it so that someone with, say, Leadership, do not get a huge amount of extra weapons/feats by training his horde and having weak mooks fed to them.
Good point, added non-stacking.
For the Phantasy Star campaign, given Leadership feeding is not something you'll agree with and how you banned using cost reduction to obtain more items than you should, how do you feel about using followers to feed you all their wealth so you can spend 159k on your character's gear when you should have a 110k limit?

No reach. It's kinda of a clunky mechanic to begin with and not really in the spirit of mecha.
You really have an anti-range stance here :p

That sounds good, added it to the Index. Thanks!
The change to +6d6 for Colossal should nerf a ton of the more recent figures.

I HATE RANGE!
*sigh*

POS bow vs uber optimized AC and you're like nah it's hit rate sucks. No kidding, it didn't spend anything on it's attack. And 20mu range? Actually with hide and wanting to hit 95% on the first attack it's 60mu, 100mu if you spend 150gp on a scope. But more importantly is the fact that these things are comparable which means there is no clear choice that players will ever pick. It's a shame through that Ranged already provokes AoOs, have penalties when shooting into melee, obstacle rules favor melee/flanking, and you purposely added a serve limitation on multi-round usage and reduced damage on top of that. Additionally you're little rant about how you should spend gold on cooler things than weapons is self-defeating becuase maybe I want to spend upgrade points on cool stuff to. But I bring this up because the only way Built-Ins can have all those penalties added is by taking Transform(tank) and also giving up Flight. Jesus, it's not like a melee opponent can't simply charge someone in the first place you don't need to screw Ranged over at every single step. Also Gear dependent? Hi Welcome to D&D and let's add a Mech that if you glue the hatch shut it will piss off a player far more than a disarmed weapon will because you've created a campiagn setting that's more dependant on items than the Power Rangers need morphers. :banghead

It basically just boils down to the whole "I hate you, this topic is a black hole, forget about it" part. SRW the board game includes Gundams which are primarily ranged combatants but I guess you're entirely focused on Mazinger Z or Getter Robo (which ever one is like no guns!). Then you're off thinking the action scene of the underdog shooting people to steal their guns to shoot more people is far more interesting than how the very media genre you're trying to mimic doesn't do that. They are badass robots and they get unique weapons/traits/decals, underdog weapon swapping is for the loser's crowning moment of achievement which only happens once. And do you know what the irony is? It's not that you can steal a lv7 gun, but no one is going to run around stealing guns in the first place like you imagine them to because your guns suck so bad the only thing PCs are going to steal is a melee weapon, if it's better, and keep it forever.

I feel you are mechanically pushing people towards one choice even through you claim you don't want that. I also feel like you pushing irrelevant themes that are not in the mimicked material. I also feel like the homebrew is all over the place and needs a ton of work with some ridiculously borked traits in it that give me stuff like off handed examples of seventy thousand damage to use as a point when I feel like it. But, you just don't want to hear about so w/e. I've lost my urge to give a fuck.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 12:16:51 AM by SorO_Lost »

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #429 on: October 24, 2016, 02:41:35 PM »
I just realized I misremembered flight costs and they're already 1 per 5mu so my point is moot goodbye :v

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #430 on: October 25, 2016, 01:10:07 PM »
Energy overhaul applied across the board. Let me know if I missed something.

Also most arsenal options got a bunch of built-in penalties.

If energy regen is that tight, it sounds like readied maneuvers are going to give you more opportunity to use even mid-level maneuvers. Let alone counters. Also moving, and in some scenarios normal attacks.

Also, reminder that two of the arsenal options take more than 100 energy per attack. :lmao

Yeah, weapon energy costs were also overhauled.

Racial abilities pass to the mecha.
So a Shifter piloting a Mech can grow claws?
Yes. Not sure if they're still worth it.

Cheer/Fortune spirits: Might want to put a limit to it so that someone with, say, Leadership, do not get a huge amount of extra weapons/feats by training his horde and having weak mooks fed to them.
Good point, added non-stacking.
For the Phantasy Star campaign, given Leadership feeding is not something you'll agree with and how you banned using cost reduction to obtain more items than you should, how do you feel about using followers to feed you all their wealth so you can spend 159k on your character's gear when you should have a 110k limit?
No.

No reach. It's kinda of a clunky mechanic to begin with and not really in the spirit of mecha.
You really have an anti-range stance here :p
The irony since reach weapons make it harder to 5-feet step away to fire safer.

POS bow vs uber optimized AC and you're like nah it's hit rate sucks. No kidding, it didn't spend anything on it's attack. And 20mu range? Actually with hide and wanting to hit 95% on the first attack it's 60mu, 100mu if you spend 150gp on a scope. But more importantly is the fact that these things are comparable which means there is no clear choice that players will ever pick. It's a shame through that Ranged already provokes AoOs, have penalties when shooting into melee, obstacle rules favor melee/flanking, and you purposely added a serve limitation on multi-round usage and reduced damage on top of that. Additionally you're little rant about how you should spend gold on cooler things than weapons is self-defeating becuase maybe I want to spend upgrade points on cool stuff to. But I bring this up because the only way Built-Ins can have all those penalties added is by taking Transform(tank) and also giving up Flight. Jesus, it's not like a melee opponent can't simply charge someone in the first place you don't need to screw Ranged over at every single step. Also Gear dependent? Hi Welcome to D&D and let's add a Mech that if you glue the hatch shut it will piss off a player far more than a disarmed weapon will because you've created a campiagn setting that's more dependant on items than the Power Rangers need morphers. :banghead
Well if it's one of the reasons I added the tac feats that allow a super to summon their ride and the real to call mook machines that they can commandeer.


It basically just boils down to the whole "I hate you, this topic is a black hole, forget about it" part. SRW the board game includes Gundams which are primarily ranged combatants but I guess you're entirely focused on Mazinger Z or Getter Robo (which ever one is like no guns!).
Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.

Gundams on the other hand get more than their share of kills in melee. Heck, the more recent gundam animes, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn and Thunderbolt, all have their climatic battles end with "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword/fist."

And the only recorded instance of a Zaku II (aka basic "evil grunt") defeating a Gundam was by a pilot managing to get close enough to hit them with their heat axe. Because the Zaku II's basic machine gun and even the rocket launcher never managed to do anything more than scratch a Gundam's paint even when wielded by named ace pilots.

Then you're off thinking the action scene of the underdog shooting people to steal their guns to shoot more people is far more interesting than how the very media genre you're trying to mimic doesn't do that. They are badass robots and they get unique weapons/traits/decals, underdog weapon swapping is for the loser's crowning moment of achievement which only happens once. And do you know what the irony is? It's not that you can steal a lv7 gun, but no one is going to run around stealing guns in the first place like you imagine them to because your guns suck so bad the only thing PCs are going to steal is a melee weapon, if it's better, and keep it forever.

I feel you are mechanically pushing people towards one choice even through you claim you don't want that. I also feel like you pushing irrelevant themes that are not in the mimicked material. I also feel like the homebrew is all over the place and needs a ton of work with some ridiculously borked traits in it that give me stuff like off handed examples of seventy thousand damage to use as a point when I feel like it. But, you just don't want to hear about so w/e. I've lost my urge to give a fuck.

Indeed, I'm not that interested in listening about how the secondary arsenal weapons that super robots get on a delayed progression to start with may or may not be less efficient that bizzarre combinations of other weapon creation rules.

I'm however quite interested in fixing clearly broken stuff like the broken maneuvers/stances and crazy weapon size scaling mentioned, which I've done so, and you indeed don't give a fuck for that, although you gave a lot of fucks rambling about wanting to make melee obsolete by mooks being able to focus fire the PCs at mega range with easily accessible uber guns (which is kinda what happened at the first battle of the campaign, third irony), and you were still editing your post hours later. If you had ever given a single fuck about fair mecha ranged combat, you would've worried first about the base ranged weapons on the real robots, not the optional arsenal ones.

In related news, non-mecha weapons now deal minimum damage against mecha and vice-versa.

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #431 on: October 25, 2016, 01:31:17 PM »

Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.

Gundams on the other hand get more than their share of kills in melee. Heck, the more recent gundam animes, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn and Thunderbolt, all have their climatic battles end with "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword/fist."

And the only recorded instance of a Zaku II (aka basic "evil grunt") defeating a Gundam was by a pilot managing to get close enough to hit them with their heat axe. Because the Zaku II's basic machine gun and even the rocket launcher never managed to do anything more than scratch a Gundam's paint even when wielded by named ace pilots.


I think the point is that you can't give Getter its machine gun, nor Mazinkaiser SKL its pistols, nor Dancouga any of its multitude of guns, etc....
And while sure, Gundams have some awesome melee....Unicorn's Beam Magnum is much stronger than any of its melee weapons, and the majority of lead gundams (barring Exia/00/Quan[T], Barbatos, and the GBF leads) are primarily ranged. Wing's Buster Rifle, Zeta's Hi Mega Launcher, Double Zeta's High Mega Cannon, F91's VSBRs, Nu's Fin Funnels (which are admittedly available), Freedom/Strike Freedom's absurd quantity of ranged weapons...
If anything, if you want to show those awesome Gundam finales, you should make ranged strong, and then make Sunder a powerful option, because that's what usually happens.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #432 on: October 25, 2016, 03:55:34 PM »
The irony since reach weapons make it harder to 5-feet step away to fire safer.
That's not how you use the word irony.

Irony is counter to expectations or what is appropriate. Since my stance is Ranged=Melee, the inherent flaws in Ranged that were designed to make it equal to it are expected and appropriate. An example of ironic be about how you think resources should be spent on cool stuff and PCs should not be gear dependent.
Well if it's one of the reasons I added the tac feats that allow a super to summon their ride and the real to call mook machines that they can commandeer.
But you require PCs to spend their Feat Slot resources in order to lessen the threats of something taking their required gear away.

Instead of irony you should use coincidentally, like this:
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Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.
So coincidentally, you're crapping on all three of the franchises instead of one.

Language aside I think we all figured out in your last post what your definition of fix means. Like when I pointed out ranged arsenal was behind every other option so you "fixed" it by widening the gap. And now here recently you're newest patch was to remove the option to use gold as a means, so the only semi-decent ranged weapon is obtained by spending a couple dozen upgrade points on a Super Robot's Tank Mode, at least until you nerf that some more too. And somehow, all this time you've known Real Pilot's ranged choice are even worse and you still don't care. Instead the only thing you want to focus on is how I didn't memorize all thirty ambiguous and self cross-referencing threads so you can claim I don't really care.

Well, once upon a time I did care enough to crunch over a dozen numbers that you never cared to do.

Offline CKirk

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #433 on: October 25, 2016, 04:06:09 PM »
Something I've just noticed. With the energy rework, you didn't change the cost on Funnels, so now it's even harder to use 'em effectively. I dunno if this is intentional or not.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #434 on: October 25, 2016, 04:37:14 PM »
Eh, irony can be used in so many ways nowadays. Isn't language evolution fun?

Offline Anomander

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #435 on: October 25, 2016, 09:08:18 PM »
About the Energy revamp

In case it wasn't meant to be, the multiclassing rules still grant increases to energy per class level.
The Einst Queen infiltrator has scaling energy as well (including its multiclassing options) along with the old energy recovery (though it'd be more limited in that department).
The Super Pilot still has energy increases with its super upgrades (though that may be supposed to be an alternative to Arsenal options).
I'll update the Engineer based on what seems to be the norm between the two across their progression.

In case that the Real Pilot and Super Pilot are meant to have energy increase options, the Ship Captain is then very limited in that department; I've a hard time imagining it doing much in a fight with its main cannon costing 50 energy and trying to use its maneuvers on top of it all. Along with flying around. It has enough arsenal space to have one reactor quality or more energy, but with the default recovery being at 5 per round a reactor is almost mandatory to do anything.
For the Main Cannon, maybe it'd be cool to have its energy cost be based on its number of base damage die, you could lower its damage for lower energy costs, which could lead to 'charging the lazzer' for a max-power shot.

The Main weapon now costing a whoopin' 10 energy per attack per pick of the upgrade suddenly makes it anything but a main weapon. It suddenly becomes the one you try to use the most sparingly since it empties your energy reserve. Except perhaps for a heavy weapon for maximum effect on multiple targets with a single attack. With 3 picks making it 30 energy per attack... I'll just note I didn't consider the second and third pick of Main to be worth their energy cost and now that the energy pool is reduced along with the energy increases, I'm not sure why anyone would consider them except perhaps to combine with a spirit/effect that guarantees a critical hit... M'yeah.

« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 09:12:29 PM by Anomander »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #436 on: October 25, 2016, 11:07:50 PM »

Double irony since Getter has a machine gun and Mazinkaizer SKL dual-wields pistols.

Gundams on the other hand get more than their share of kills in melee. Heck, the more recent gundam animes, Iron Blooded Orphans, Unicorn and Thunderbolt, all have their climatic battles end with "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword/fist."

And the only recorded instance of a Zaku II (aka basic "evil grunt") defeating a Gundam was by a pilot managing to get close enough to hit them with their heat axe. Because the Zaku II's basic machine gun and even the rocket launcher never managed to do anything more than scratch a Gundam's paint even when wielded by named ace pilots.


I think the point is that you can't give Getter its machine gun, nor Mazinkaiser SKL its pistols, nor Dancouga any of its multitude of guns, etc....
But you can, just pick arsenal and take your picks. Sure they're not going to be boss-finishers, but that was never their purpose to begin with. Mazinkaiser/Getter/Dancounga use guns to either clear away mooks that aren't worth spending energy on or wear down bigger enemies at range before getting close enough for rip and tear.

And while sure, Gundams have some awesome melee....Unicorn's Beam Magnum is much stronger than any of its melee weapons, and the majority of lead gundams (barring Exia/00/Quan[T], Barbatos, and the GBF leads) are primarily ranged. Wing's Buster Rifle, Zeta's Hi Mega Launcher, Double Zeta's High Mega Cannon, F91's VSBRs, Nu's Fin Funnels (which are admittedly available), Freedom/Strike Freedom's absurd quantity of ranged weapons...
If anything, if you want to show those awesome Gundam finales, you should make ranged strong, and then make Sunder a powerful option, because that's what usually happens.
Remind me, what gundam series had the big bad finished by one of the supposedly super ranged weapons?

(click to show/hide)

Main point is, even in the gundam series ranged weapons are mostly for clearing away nameless faceless mooks, while important enemies shrugg off all sorts of guns like a boss before getting stabbed about 99% of the time.

As for sundering, yes it's a common theme in giant robot shows, however from a gaming perspective, it would mean players pretty much need to go restock to a base after every battle to replace destroyed weapons. That's why I added the Disarming property, allowing you to remove weapons that can be easily replaced after the battle is over.

Although I'm all ears, how would such an "easy sunder" system work? First guy to win initiative blows up the other dude's biggest weapon and whoever goes second is left running a losing battle as both their damage potential and HP have been crippled and they can't recover their damage potential? Or just make ranged weapons super easy to sunder while melee ones are more durable?

Something I've just noticed. With the energy rework, you didn't change the cost on Funnels, so now it's even harder to use 'em effectively. I dunno if this is intentional or not.
Missed it, standardized to 5 energy per round, thanks!

About the Energy revamp

In case it wasn't meant to be, the multiclassing rules still grant increases to energy per class level.
The Einst Queen infiltrator has scaling energy as well (including its multiclassing options) along with the old energy recovery (though it'd be more limited in that department).
The Super Pilot still has energy increases with its super upgrades (though that may be supposed to be an alternative to Arsenal options).
Thanks as well, removed the multiclassing leftovers and updated Einst queen as well.
Super robot energy upgrade remaining is intended has supers usually have more energy. The bonus has been halved though.

In case that the Real Pilot and Super Pilot are meant to have energy increase options, the Ship Captain is then very limited in that department; I've a hard time imagining it doing much in a fight with its main cannon costing 50 energy and trying to use its maneuvers on top of it all. Along with flying around. It has enough arsenal space to have one reactor quality or more energy, but with the default recovery being at 5 per round a reactor is almost mandatory to do anything.
For the Main Cannon, maybe it'd be cool to have its energy cost be based on its number of base damage die, you could lower its damage for lower energy costs, which could lead to 'charging the lazzer' for a max-power shot.
Reduced energy beam cannon cost to 15. "Charging my lazzors" is something that's already represented by using either spirits/maneuvers or the super robot's upgrade.

The Main weapon now costing a whoopin' 10 energy per attack per pick of the upgrade suddenly makes it anything but a main weapon. It suddenly becomes the one you try to use the most sparingly since it empties your energy reserve. Except perhaps for a heavy weapon for maximum effect on multiple targets with a single attack. With 3 picks making it 30 energy per attack... I'll just note I didn't consider the second and third pick of Main to be worth their energy cost and now that the energy pool is reduced along with the energy increases, I'm not sure why anyone would consider them except perhaps to combine with a spirit/effect that guarantees a critical hit... M'yeah.
Reduced energy cost to 5 per increase.

Still, as pointed out earlier one of the purposes is to promote the use of different weapons. So a gundam uses their vulkans to clear away minor nuissances, the beam rifle to shoot down those half-decent zakus and pulls out the beam saber for big baddies. Sometimes he carried around his own rocket launcher or a hammer and sometimes he just tears stuff apart with its hands.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 11:17:19 PM by oslecamo »

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #437 on: October 25, 2016, 11:11:49 PM »
Jeebus, Main Weapon costs 10 energy per rank per swing now!? So rank 2 is 20 per swing then? Fck that you could literally never use it. And God help you if you try to main weapon a twin linked weapon for TWF. You already have to pay double energy, basically, to use maneuvers with a main weapon when that maneuver grants multiple attacks. Gosh.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #438 on: October 25, 2016, 11:29:23 PM »
Main weapon it's been updated to 5 energy per rank. Base you can get 20 swings. Rank 2 you can get 10 swings and rank 3 you can get 6 swings. Before max energy upgrades.

Offline ketaro

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Re: General Discussion and Suggestions
« Reply #439 on: October 26, 2016, 12:58:57 AM »
That's....wow that's terrible. How is that a Main Weapon now? Your main weapon is one that you always use the most and can always rely on. That on top of the incredibly reduced max energy values and the even more butchered energy regen and the awesome amount of methods the SRW system has for getting additional actions and attacks and move above the normal, all of which also need energy expended on them on top of the general maneuver costs and I'm starting to find this overhaul unplayable in any sort of casual means and that's just in regards to the new rules for Energy ~.~

This is going to be like completely making a new character soon when the level up comes around in Phantasy Star.....


I get that weapon swapping may be a sort of thing in mecha animes, but in D&D you generally have little need or want to bother switching weapons except when one stops working or when you have another that'd work better on a particular opponent. I get we're trying to emulate mecha animes here, but we're also D&D at the core of it with all this  :-\
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 01:02:29 AM by ketaro »