Arcane Dilettante ROUND TWO

[SorO_Lost]

Huh? *checks* Hmm... Oops.
CF1 would be cast @CL20 for a +10 bonus.
CF2 would be cast @30 (20 base + 10 spell) for a +15 bonus.
CF3 would be cast @35 (20 base + 15 spell) for a +17 bonus.
Totally spaced on the TO trick required Greater Consumptive Field to store CLs back and forth so it operates like
CF1 would be cast @CL20 for a +10 bonus.
GCF1 would be cast @30 (20 base + 10 spell) for a +15 bonus.
CF2 would be cast @45 (20 base + 10 cf + 15 gcf) for a +22 bonus.
And that's what made it TO too, stacking the greater with the normal even through it's kind of the same effect.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Kell, you're welcome to post your build or otherwise check my math.

There are two ways to read the feat.

No there isn't.

Sigh. Notice I didn't say correct reading. That's the reason I showed the math for when you look at the trick the wrong way.

And yes BLs do wierd things with CL shenanigans. But if you'd like to challenge some of the math, I have it all laid out. For instance Ice9 being nice enough to list of the Consumptive field iterations helped.

[KellKheraptis]

Revisiting this, without using any Master Spellthief shenanigans or Mind Mage, I think the highest CL possible will be from breaking all spells on a Wizard/Red Wizard/SCM into cantrips, then using Circle Magic to Heighten them 20 slots to 20th level slots (for free +20 CL from Earth Spell) while also going off of a base CL of 40 (also from Circle Magic), then tacking on the usual CL boosters, casting GCF, building a Node, and finally casting GCF again, this time persisting it.  One could obviously keep making the Node bigger, but at that point it's a lot simpler to keep CF/GCF stacking.

I'll have to go digging for the Mind Mage thread - that one had some absolutely ludicrous potential.

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

Sounds about right. I consider circle magic's 20th level spell slots 3e fixable territory, since I can't find any other instance of higher than 9th level slots being mentioned in non-epic material. I'm fine with epic spellcasting being different from historical 10th level spellslots, but 11th to 20th level spells seems right out.

Node magic seems to be a case of mother may I with the campaign setting when it's more than just a few CL.

Since GCF is NI and loopable, I don't consider it a CO contender.

You're right that allowing ML -> CL  and visa versa is probably the easiest way to win. It is a contender I was aware of but not comparing directly. It gets messy without nerfing full psionics transparency.

If we aren't doing the above, I'm specifically comparing the Arcane Dilettante CL to circle magic's CL boost (which requires campaign world cooperation or leadership for fuel) and consumptive field (which can be fueled by magic items). As I suspected, doing things the non-fueled, brute force way is a ton of work and at best 15 CL over circle magic's CL40.

[awaken_D_M_golem]

^{(tangenting a little)}

... I can't find any other instance of higher than 9th level slots being mentioned in non-epic material. I'm fine with epic spellcasting being different from historical 10th level spellslots, but 11th to 20th level spells seems right out ...

iirc - Breaking The Core included self generated Miracle+'s and Wish+'s , and an a.h. supply of some of the Deck Of Many Things effects.  But your point is right, it's only by inference that one knows they're stronger than 9s.


2e Outlands Hinterlands section, has (had) a 10th Ring with actual 10th level spells not just the slots , 11th Ring with 11s , 12s at the 12th Ring with a specific gawd-killer spell attempted and succeeding for a short period of time.

The writers from that period are spread out and hard to find, as are their leftover web pages.  This one is probably 99% legit (I don't know, I don't have any access to originals) ... and the really interesting part, is elsewhere (I've really lost this part) his realm is deep in the 11th Ring and quite comfortable about being there.  Fluff-wise this dude is in the running for the most powerful semi-statted thing in ancient d&d history.

(click to show/hide)

https://web.archive.org/web/20050408073613/http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Vault/9974/aztec.htm
Xiuhtecuhtli
Intermediate Power, "Oldest of the Gods", AKA Otontecuhtli or Huehueteotl
AoC: Fire, space-time, opposites
Al: N
WAL: Any
Symbol: Pine tree, pepper
Home P/L/R: Outlands/Hinterlands/Hueiuhcalli
Known Proxies: None

Xiuhtecuhtli is the oldest Aztec god, and amongst the most ancient in the Multiverse. In common with a number of ancient gods, he has in his portfolio abstract concepts of space, as well as an elemental aspect. He also represents the sun and the hearth, two vital sources of fire. He defends the people in the times between the centuries (actually 52 years each) when the gods can bob humanity and go back on their deals. He appears as an old man carrying a lighted brazier on his head.

"Hueuihcalli", the Old Home of Fire.
Xiuhtecuhtli's realm is far out into the Hinterlands, near as anyone can figure. As all the Aztec gods share aspects of one another, Xihtecuhtli's relations include the god of crossroads and Huehueteotl, another older fire god. Strangely enough, Xiuh also has many ties to the high-up of the Aztec pantheon, Ometeotl. Arriving in his realm for the first time, a visitor will find himself on a neatly paved road in the middle of a hot jungle. In fact, almost all of this god's realm is steamy jungle, inhabited by creatures of fire, and roads that lead nearly anywhere in the multiverse but mostly to the elemental plane of Fire. Xiuhtecuhtli is completely unnaproachable; a body's often sighted a huge ziggurat behind the trees, but they always get given the runaround, encountering more roads, or simply seeing the ziggurat vanish behind the tall trees. He has very few petitioners, and no proxies that anyone knows of.