Author Topic: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"  (Read 22253 times)

Offline nijineko

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2012, 11:14:53 AM »
A huge percentage - arguably a majority - of 3.5 monsters are "puzzle encounters" like that, which challenge/frustrate/destroy parties who don't have the correct answer to the puzzle, and on the opposite end, are trivially easy for a party to deal with if they happen to have access to and knowledge of the correct answer to the puzzle.  As I read the OP - and I'll own the reading as my own, and not Endarire's words - DMs who don't expect nearly every encounter to be this way AND expect the party to consistently have a bag full of correct puzzle solutions handy are Doing It Wrong.  There's almost an undercurrent of "every person who volunteers to DM for a group must first pass this battery of competency tests" to the OP's sentiment, to my view (and good luck enforcing that).
Indeed, puzzle encounters are practically trivial with the right solutions, but in 3.5 are almost always beatable without(e.g. once you get Big T down to negatives, it is entirely possible to lock him away, with or without Wishes), provided you have luck and plenty of brute force.

In most such cases, the fault tends to lie with the most skilled person at the table, as they are the most able to adjust their play/GMing to fit the group best. The others simply don't have a choice, other than to lean on the stronger person's ability(which is not an option that is universally applicable). Even with someone more capable helping, there are limits.

Broad plot strokes easily abolished by not just individual ability, but with something you can buy(need to cross the kingdom in a hurry? Buy a scroll of Overland Flight to bypass the intervening distance and encounters, or a scroll of Teleport to bypass all the things), can easily wipe out preparation. In fact, such abilities can routinely screw over certain types of groups, where the scenario is predetermined(E.g. skipping the intervening encounters means you arrive at the BBEG's place...two levels too low, and without the plot devices to weaken him).

Offense outstrips defense as well, a skilled(in the optimization sense, which is completely distinct from the DMing sense) DM might make a challenging encounter consisting of high offense creatures(hydras, beholders) attacking from ambush on complex terrain...against a party that is essentially the D&D Iconics is going to flatten them, and they'd be unable to do anything about it. Against a more optimized party it might be down to a coinflip instead, winner takes all.
Emphasis mine.  Note that when I brought up similar issues to those emphasized above, a majority of responses put the blame squarely on the DM's (i.e. my) shoulders for not being able to deal with it as smoothly as apparently expected.

and the blame should be there. idic.

so they fly. big deal. that's part of a fantasy world. unless you have explicitly explained why flight works different / does not work / is harder than normal / or whatever, at some point in your world, the players have ever right to expect that to be how it works and for that to be a clever solution to the problem.

so make the encounters ariel instead of land based. a floating palace of ice, giants living on clouds, or a mysterious portal in the air, or one of the party gets kidnapped by ariel creatures and taken to an eyrie (which can be a dungeon, if that's what you wanted), you can have a storm show up, which if they were wise they would divert around - or become an encounter/adventure in and of itself, or a floating forest blows in, or launches from the ground (it's the season for it) and your goblin encounter just became a race of genasi goblins with glide-skin between their arms and legs (or even use yazarians instead of goblins) and thri-kreen which leap from floating tree to floating tree, or some kingdom takes exception to violations of airspace and nabs them to check for proper visa and travel papers (hey, works just as good in a fantasy world... you could even have the tsa search them for "contraband" or "hazmat" [i'm sorry sir, but transmutation items have known interactions with skycrystals which are common in this area of the world, and cannot be allowed in our airspace; i'm afraid we'll have to confiscate that...] ^^ )

there are so many possibilities for encounters in any environment, that there really is no excuse not to be able to adapt any encounter to a new path the players happen to take. unless, of course, you've previously established that a particular thing works differently than it is in the books for whatever creative reason (and flight is a core spell / magic effect, its not like it comes from some obscure rule book that you don't have).

be creative. be flexible. adapt. rule of yes. fly with the eagles. generally, it's more fun for everyone. and makes for a more epic, more exotic, more interesting storyline when all is said and done.



and if so many people are basically telling you "You're Doing It Wrong" ™, then maybe you should take it under serious advisement. not that the majority is always right, but on the other hand, there may be something to it.


and hey, not everyone is good at it.

Offline InnaBinder

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2012, 11:28:13 AM »
Are you saying that veekie, who pointed out in this thread how problematic such abilities can be to some encounters, is also wrong, or am I the only special snowflake you're essentially telling not to DM anymore?
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Offline nijineko

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2012, 11:48:08 AM »
Are you saying that veekie, who pointed out in this thread how problematic such abilities can be to some encounters, is also wrong, or am I the only special snowflake you're essentially telling not to DM anymore?

i'm saying that any given ability is only as problematic as the lack of creativity and adaptability of a given individual.

if you're players are happy, then you should keep on dm'ing the way you are. if they are not, or you are frustrated constantly, or "the majority" is saying that "you are to blame", then i'm saying consider learning how to do it differently; learning some new tricks and approaches.

i am not, never have, nor ever will, tell you to stop.

your relative degree of 'snowflake specialness' is up to you and your players to determine.

Offline InnaBinder

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2012, 01:01:15 PM »
Are you saying that veekie, who pointed out in this thread how problematic such abilities can be to some encounters, is also wrong, or am I the only special snowflake you're essentially telling not to DM anymore?

i'm saying that any given ability is only as problematic as the lack of creativity and adaptability of a given individual.

if you're players are happy, then you should keep on dm'ing the way you are. if they are not, or you are frustrated constantly, or "the majority" is saying that "you are to blame", then i'm saying consider learning how to do it differently; learning some new tricks and approaches.

i am not, never have, nor ever will, tell you to stop.

your relative degree of 'snowflake specialness' is up to you and your players to determine.
See the linked thread - among others - for attempts to do that very thing (learning to do it differently), including the chance to draw your own conclusions about its success against the metric.
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Offline veekie

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2012, 01:17:03 PM »
so they fly. big deal. that's part of a fantasy world. unless you have explicitly explained why flight works different / does not work / is harder than normal / or whatever, at some point in your world, the players have ever right to expect that to be how it works and for that to be a clever solution to the problem.

so make the encounters ariel instead of land based. a floating palace of ice, giants living on clouds, or a mysterious portal in the air, or one of the party gets kidnapped by ariel creatures and taken to an eyrie (which can be a dungeon, if that's what you wanted), you can have a storm show up, which if they were wise they would divert around - or become an encounter/adventure in and of itself, or a floating forest blows in, or launches from the ground (it's the season for it) and your goblin encounter just became a race of genasi goblins with glide-skin between their arms and legs (or even use yazarians instead of goblins) and thri-kreen which leap from floating tree to floating tree, or some kingdom takes exception to violations of airspace and nabs them to check for proper visa and travel papers (hey, works just as good in a fantasy world... you could even have the tsa search them for "contraband" or "hazmat" [i'm sorry sir, but transmutation items have known interactions with skycrystals which are common in this area of the world, and cannot be allowed in our airspace; i'm afraid we'll have to confiscate that...] ^^ )
Not quite applicable unless you want to discard Generic Fantasy Setting as the basis. Those things don't generally exist across a large stretch of the map, nor your agreed themes with the players. All it does is invert the problem, now the players need flight/planar travel to get there and have their adventure, if they don't they get to sit it out. Supernatural geography is a fine thing, but the pseudo medieval Europe setting that most fantasy is based on don't have those as a staple, but as highly notable exceptions.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2012, 01:54:25 PM »
@the Tarrasque and creatures like it

I actually find that, if you want to call the Tarrasque (and creatures like it) a puzzle encounter, it's at least of the right sort.  It tends to reward creativity more than system mastery/memorizing the monster manuals.  The Tarrasque is intended to be a melee monster of epic proportions -- it's really solid in the deal and take damage department.  But, it's a big dumb brute without any exotic abilities other than being immune to a bunch of stuff.  Hence, it's well-known vulnerability to stealth, flight, etc.  Really, to anything that doesn't challenge it in its bailiwick. 

My players tossed a potion of gaseous form down it's throat then wished that the gas would go into an ink well and remain inside as a gas until someone opened the ink well.

Some DMs can't think fast. Other's can. I played in one GURPS campaign where you literally could not go ANYWHERE but what the GM planned for that evening. I've never been so railroaded before in my life. Well... Jen in college was also bad. And Jamie. But you know, Jen was creative inside the encounter and Jamie was just... weird. Surreal adventures can be fun. The GURPS guy? That was just boring.

My PCs actions were determined before I could do anything. Any attempt to divert from the plan was corrected. I remember I spend several weeks IC locked up as a prisoner in order for him to "fix" things. He seemed boggled when my PC gave up all hope and wanted to join the bad guys. Then NPC heroes showed up and killed all the bad guys but spared me. Any attempt to gather power was thwarted. We had a healer in the party. He rendered her completely useless by adding another healer who was vastly superior. The "wizard" wasn't allowed to learn combat spells. Or illusions. Or how to make magic items, or... anything. In Short, I now hate GURPS with a passion. GURPS sucks. I don't care if it was one bad GM. Any game that could attract a inhuman GM who railroads like that needs to be burned. There must be something wrong on a fundimental level with GURPS for anyone like him to want to play GURPS so bad. In my Gut, I know, GURPS is wrong. The Angles are wrong. The game will drive a man insane and make them want to shave their head and masterbate in public. I have no proof of this. I just KNOW. In my heart. It. Is. WRONG.

Personally, I don't get the discussion. Some DMs suck. Others don't. Some PCs suck. Other's don't. What's the point? What are you really trying to figure out here? Look water is wet. The sky is up. Some people got it, others don't.
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Offline Captnq

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2012, 02:03:43 PM »
Ya know, I gave it some thought...

What frustrates me as a DM is when players work against each other. As the DM, I can't lose. I have an unlimited amount of crap to create.

Poof. I just created a half-human, half-tiger, cursed fighter with a desire to become a Monk and start his own order in service to a Giant Oytugh who he hopes to make into a God to replace the old God of Rot. They have a monistary based around brewing alcohol. The head of the brewery will be a one legged dwarf named Beets. Why? Because the motherfucker loves beets. That's why.

But if the players hate each other ICly or OOCly and start to cut each other down, I can only do so much. Making adventures is easy. Having players who work as a team is hard.
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2012, 03:38:19 PM »
I feel like things have gotten off-track.  I think the OP was referring to charopp type of not handling rather than the abilities that can short-circuit a plot.  Would it be worth it to break that off to a different discussion?  That being said, I think that discussion has been hashed over at some length already. 

The abilities that can wreck plots -- as contrasted to those that "merely" wreck encounters -- are, I think, pretty well-known.  I tend to resort to the standard -- you need to know what kind of game you're playing/running.  Are you running something like Planescape or Eberron?  That is, something with high-powered and ubiquitous magic?  If so, then overland flight, teleport, etc. might be things that need to be taken into account.  Or, are you running Birthright or Middle Earth? 

Excise or restrict the abilities that might destroy plots.  That's my advice.  There are workarounds, but there's no need to make things difficult -- just get rid of or restrict them.  Anyone willing to sign onto "let's play Middle Earth" ought, on pain of dickishness, to be willing to sign up to "no teleporting right to Mordor." 

The thing is, nothing in the genre really hangs on being able to trivially teleport from Sydney to Dubai.  It's not an icon of fantasy literature or anything.  On the other hand, run a DC Adventures game and say "sorry, no flight" and be prepared to dodge books.

P.S.: 
...
All it does is invert the problem, now the players need flight/planar travel to get there and have their adventure, if they don't they get to sit it out. Supernatural geography is a fine thing, but the pseudo medieval Europe setting that most fantasy is based on don't have those as a staple, but as highly notable exceptions.
Not quite true.  It's very easy for players to acquire the means to reach the supernatural geography.  Indeed, that sort of is a staple of fantasy stories (e.g., Krull, Perseus and Pegasus, Kratos and ... err ... Pegasus). 

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2012, 03:46:30 PM »
Quote
Not quite true.  It's very easy for players to acquire the means to reach the supernatural geography.  Indeed, that sort of is a staple of fantasy stories (e.g., Krull, Perseus and Pegasus, Kratos and ... err ... Pegasus).
And One Piece.
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Offline nijineko

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2012, 06:27:55 PM »
regardless of the actual setting, or the degree of power involved, this is actually a discussion of one individual who can't handle in-scale actions of another individual playing the same game. the main dissonance seems to be different expectations or views on the part of the individuals in question, with the occasional, oh-i-forgot-about-that thrown in for variance.

a dm whom is completely capable of doing so that fails to make the scale known ahead of time, or fails to know the characters, or fails to be creative, flexible, and innovative in the face of the unexpected, should accept the blame.

it is reasonable to assume that anyone who is going to take on the role of gm/dm/storyteller/whatever has some actual competence in the game, and at least knows the rules and setting, is creative, and is capable of conveying all parameters before game play starts. it is also reasonable to classify anyone who fails in such basic defaults as a poor candidate for running that particular game. betatesting and homebrew and brand new first time dms are likely to fall into a different category. works in progress, and all that.



as a tertiary point, all of the examples given so far, are really easy to deal with and completely puzzle me as to why some of you - such seemingly competent optimizers and clever individuals (especially those of you so quick to parse rules and give such highly detailed breakdowns and rules arguments) - can't seem to tackle such simple situations and even bother to bring them up or identify them as examples of problems.

let's take the flight comment as an example. d&d is a high fantasy world. flight is par for the course in the standard setting of greyhawk. if you are playing it differently on purpose, that's fine, but if you are shifting the paradigm, then everyone needs to know in advance. flight is and should be standard for heroic player characters that are supposed to be the focus of the plot and story in a standard rules d&d game, unless you are using a different paradigm, as i mentioned. and even without resorting to fairly standard fantasy geography, there are a lot of solutions, some of which i mentioned.


i think before we start pointing fingers at rules or abilities or the game at all, we need to fix the people problems first.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 06:46:31 PM by nijineko »

Offline Endarire

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2012, 07:42:00 PM »
Nijneko: Amen.  It's a matter of perspective first.  It's determining the bounds of what we're doing, which is often ignored en route to getting the game started sooner.

Spiffy arguments, all.

Offline nijineko

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2012, 11:11:34 PM »
Not quite applicable unless you want to discard Generic Fantasy Setting as the basis. Those things don't generally exist across a large stretch of the map, nor your agreed themes with the players. All it does is invert the problem, now the players need flight/planar travel to get there and have their adventure, if they don't they get to sit it out. Supernatural geography is a fine thing, but the pseudo medieval Europe setting that most fantasy is based on don't have those as a staple, but as highly notable exceptions.

look, i don't mean to offend you, and i don't know what kinda cut-down eunuch version of d&d you are playing, but i'm playing the version that is in the rule books (from od&d up through 3.x and adventures from any official source of d&d regardless of edition - conversion is easy)... you know, the one that is chock full of portals to other planes and pocket dimensions, exotic locals and locales, strange lands and magical effects, starships crashed, artificial intelligences attempting to take over the world, flying castles, underwater cities, floating forests, oceans of fire, oceans of dust, mountains of glass, ice fortresses, vast deserts with giant sand worms, dinosaur islands, mountains inverted over each other, mirror duplicates from alternate realities, bad star trek scenes in a dungeon (an elf, a djinn, a skeleton, and a dead woman on the floor - just think about it for a while) wild west rootin' tootin' pistol wielding rustler encounters, post apocalyptic mutants with insane "wands of burning rays", lightning elemental trains, player characters in wonderland and through the looking glass, defending dungeons against looting npcs, stealing power from the Powers themselves to bootstrap ones self up to their level, falling through a hole in one of the poles and into a world on the inside, traveling through time and space and spheres... and that's just off the top of my head without even putting on my thinking cap.

i'm looking around and i don't see any "Generic" fantasy setting... anywhere. your so-called "notable exceptions" are the rule in d&d. in fact, the more sources i look through, the more i see that your psuedo-medieval europe setting is itself the exception, at least in d&d.

i don't play generic psuedo-euroeval, son.

i play epic high fantasy. i play D&D.




Nijneko: Amen.  It's a matter of perspective first.  It's determining the bounds of what we're doing, which is often ignored en route to getting the game started sooner.

Spiffy arguments, all.

quite right, and excellent point.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 12:25:38 AM by nijineko »

Offline LordBlades

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #52 on: November 28, 2012, 12:50:28 AM »

let's take the flight comment as an example. d&d is a high fantasy world. flight is par for the course in the standard setting of greyhawk. if you are playing it differently on purpose, that's fine, but if you are shifting the paradigm, then everyone needs to know in advance. flight is and should be standard for heroic player characters that are supposed to be the focus of the plot and story in a standard rules d&d game, unless you are using a different paradigm, as i mentioned. and even without resorting to fairly standard fantasy geography, there are a lot of solutions, some of which i mentioned.



thing is, most of the stuff we (we as in experienced players) take for granted about D&D (the omnipresence of flight, teleport, dvinations, the huge power gap between some classes) is almost never explicit (you don't really find stuff like 'hey, don't use a druid and a monk in the same party' or 'get flight and good saves by mid levels or some stuff will eat you alive' in nice little sidebars all over the PHB), and often counter intuitive. When you're playing a new fantasy RPG, your expectations are mainly set by what you understand by 'fantasy' and 'RPG'. And the world of by-the-rules D&D is quite different from most fantasy worlds one usually comes in contact with.

Think for example about a guy with an average interest in fantasy. He's maybe read a few classics (LotR, maybe some Eragon or Song of Ice and Fire), played a few classics (Elder Scrolls, Fable, maybe Gothic or Witcher) but that's about it. Is he really going to expect a world where wizards are both omnipresent and able to drill holes in the plot at their leisure?

Not to mention there's even a ton of published D&D settings that for some reasons don't bear the marks of high level casters that are stated to exist in them.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 12:53:16 AM by LordBlades »

Offline nijineko

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #53 on: November 28, 2012, 01:05:04 AM »
thing is, most of the stuff we (we as in experienced players) take for granted about D&D (the omnipresence of flight, teleport, dvinations, the huge power gap between some classes) is almost never explicit (you don't really find stuff like 'hey, don't use a druid and a monk in the same party' or 'get flight and good saves by mid levels or some stuff will eat you alive' in nice little sidebars all over the PHB), and often counter intuitive. When you're playing a new fantasy RPG, your expectations are mainly set by what you understand by 'fantasy' and 'RPG'. And the world of by-the-rules D&D is quite different from most fantasy worlds one usually comes in contact with.

Think for example about a guy with an average interest in fantasy. He's maybe read a few classics (LotR, maybe some Eragon or Song of Ice and Fire), played a few classics (Elder Scrolls, Fable, maybe Gothic or Witcher) but that's about it. Is he really going to expect a world where wizards are both omnipresent and able to drill holes in the plot at their leisure?

Not to mention there's even a ton of published D&D settings that for some reasons don't bear the marks of high level casters that are stated to exist in them.

and that, as i've mentioned before, is the dm's job. educating the player as to what the expectations are going to be, before the game starts, is exactly and explicitly one of the duties of a dm.

so it doesn't really matter where the player starts: from some person who has never read a word (oops, just dated myself... add watched/played a movie/game) of fantasy in their lives, to someone like me who grew up more or less eating, drinking, and breathing the stuff... if either of us sit down to a new fantasy rpg that neither of us have played, it's the dm/gm/storyteller/whatever's job to educate us both as to what to expect before we start playing.

and if they do their job right, these little issues have less of a chance to crop up. (some players just won't listen no matter what you say, or how many times you say it, after all...) ^^
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 01:07:52 AM by nijineko »

Offline Endarire

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #54 on: November 28, 2012, 02:12:39 AM »
On a similar note, know of any Benchmark Handbook so people have a fair idea of what to expect to need by what level?  Even if there's no said handbook, when do you expect people need these things?

Continual flight, preferably extraordinary flight:
Teleportation:
Reliable interplanar travel:
Party revival capability:
True seeing when you need it, preferably continuously:
Death ward when you need it, preferably continuously:
Freedom of movement when you need it, preferably continuously:
Mind blank when you need it, preferably continuously:
Anything else I've missed:

Offline ImperatorK

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #56 on: November 28, 2012, 04:59:40 AM »
On a similar note, know of any Benchmark Handbook so people have a fair idea of what to expect to need by what level?  Even if there's no said handbook, when do you expect people need these things?

Continual flight, preferably extraordinary flight:
Teleportation:
Reliable interplanar travel:
Party revival capability:
True seeing when you need it, preferably continuously:
Death ward when you need it, preferably continuously:
Freedom of movement when you need it, preferably continuously:
Mind blank when you need it, preferably continuously:
Anything else I've missed:

This sounds like something for another thread ;)

Odd, I thought there was already one like that around here somewhere, but I can't find it  :shrug
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Offline Esgath

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #57 on: November 28, 2012, 07:40:00 AM »
There was on the old boards.

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #58 on: November 28, 2012, 09:00:02 AM »
...
thing is, most of the stuff we (we as in experienced players) take for granted about D&D (the omnipresence of flight, teleport, dvinations, the huge power gap between some classes) is almost never explicit (you don't really find stuff like 'hey, don't use a druid and a monk in the same party' or 'get flight and good saves by mid levels or some stuff will eat you alive' in nice little sidebars all over the PHB), and often counter intuitive. When you're playing a new fantasy RPG, your expectations are mainly set by what you understand by 'fantasy' and 'RPG'. And the world of by-the-rules D&D is quite different from most fantasy worlds one usually comes in contact with.

Think for example about a guy with an average interest in fantasy. He's maybe read a few classics (LotR, maybe some Eragon or Song of Ice and Fire), played a few classics (Elder Scrolls, Fable, maybe Gothic or Witcher) but that's about it. Is he really going to expect a world where wizards are both omnipresent and able to drill holes in the plot at their leisure?
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50/50, things like flight and teleportation become ubiquitous just b/c tons of monsters have them and every party with an arcane caster (i.e., nearly all of them) will have access to them.  This, unlike sophisticated arguments about class balance or the relative firepower of battlefield control v. blasting, becomes fairly obvious as you level up.  It just happens. 

Also, it's worth noting that the Witcher and SOIF/GoT are pretty specific genres, and ones not perfectly correlated with D&D.  Although the Witcher also has a fair bit of high magic -- in the 2nd game there are tons of sorcerors who can do "stuff" -- it's just that you're not one of them.  My point is that if someone forges into unmodified D&D without any discussion and expects Game of Thrones, a mistake has been made (a point Ninjenko has made already in this thread) -- there's a category error. 

The benchmarks listed above strike me as fairly bonkers ... just saying.  I can't remember a game I've played at high levels where the party has access to even the majority of those.  The only one I think is essential is party revival/condition removal.  And, we have successful games.  As a DM, a party continually using some of the most annoying effects in the game -- Freedom of Movement, Mind Blank, True Seeing -- ones that shut down entire schools of magic and archetypes, would piss me off pretty quickly. 

Offline InnaBinder

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Re: "I can't handle you guys!" "Well, what did you expect?"
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2012, 09:17:33 AM »
...
thing is, most of the stuff we (we as in experienced players) take for granted about D&D (the omnipresence of flight, teleport, dvinations, the huge power gap between some classes) is almost never explicit (you don't really find stuff like 'hey, don't use a druid and a monk in the same party' or 'get flight and good saves by mid levels or some stuff will eat you alive' in nice little sidebars all over the PHB), and often counter intuitive. When you're playing a new fantasy RPG, your expectations are mainly set by what you understand by 'fantasy' and 'RPG'. And the world of by-the-rules D&D is quite different from most fantasy worlds one usually comes in contact with.

Think for example about a guy with an average interest in fantasy. He's maybe read a few classics (LotR, maybe some Eragon or Song of Ice and Fire), played a few classics (Elder Scrolls, Fable, maybe Gothic or Witcher) but that's about it. Is he really going to expect a world where wizards are both omnipresent and able to drill holes in the plot at their leisure?
...
50/50, things like flight and teleportation become ubiquitous just b/c tons of monsters have them and every party with an arcane caster (i.e., nearly all of them) will have access to them.  This, unlike sophisticated arguments about class balance or the relative firepower of battlefield control v. blasting, becomes fairly obvious as you level up.  It just happens. 

Also, it's worth noting that the Witcher and SOIF/GoT are pretty specific genres, and ones not perfectly correlated with D&D.  Although the Witcher also has a fair bit of high magic -- in the 2nd game there are tons of sorcerors who can do "stuff" -- it's just that you're not one of them.  My point is that if someone forges into unmodified D&D without any discussion and expects Game of Thrones, a mistake has been made (a point Ninjenko has made already in this thread) -- there's a category error. 

The benchmarks listed above strike me as fairly bonkers ... just saying.  I can't remember a game I've played at high levels where the party has access to even the majority of those.  The only one I think is essential is party revival/condition removal.  And, we have successful games.  As a DM, a party continually using some of the most annoying effects in the game -- Freedom of Movement, Mind Blank, True Seeing -- ones that shut down entire schools of magic and archetypes, would piss me off pretty quickly.
Remember, also, that at least a significant minority of campaigns don't deal with that many instances of leveling up before the campaign ends; surveys taken on this board indicate games that last more than 4 - 5 levels before dying out (for whatever reason) are a minority - and we're fairly invested in the hobby as a rule.  That means that a lot of folks can get tunnel vision, looking only at the things their particular character may get or want within a specific band of that character's "adventuring life," never considering options that are unlikely to apply within that time period (doubly so if they're not especially optimization focused, since a lot of optimization involves planning ahead).  So, discussions of what folks learn "in the process of leveling up" doesn't necessarily apply in a lot of games, because they don't touch on those levels with those class abilities.
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