Author Topic: Spirit List  (Read 8060 times)

Offline oslecamo

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Spirit List
« on: September 13, 2012, 04:09:54 PM »
Spirit List


Never understimate a pilot important enough to have a customized machine!


NOTE: Each spirit has a [Real Pilot], [Super Pilot] or [Ship Captain] tag. If that's not your highest level class, then the Spirit costs +20% spirit points to use. If you have multiple classes tied for highest level, you must pick one as your "primary".

The number in (parentesis) is the spirit cost. Effects that reduce the cost of spirits never stack, apply only the highest reduction.

A character may never know more than 6 spirits. If they would learn more, instead just increase their max spirit points by an amount equal to half the number of spirit points they would gain that level, rounded up.

A Pilot’s first three spirits must be selected from the Spirits I list, the 4th and 5th must be selected from the Spirits II list, and their final spirit must be selected from the Spirits III list.

(click to show/hide)

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« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 04:06:53 AM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 12:39:42 PM »
Alert vs Break the Unbreakable: which wins?

Focus is curious in that I'm not sure when you would consider using it.

Valour is vastly more expensive than Strike, which looks odd--for twice the cost, you get something that basically gives you an automatic critical by another name but has to hit first?

Zeal... oh god. At level 14, a Real Pilot with the highest available Spirit-boosting item can use this twice in a row to gain three turns straight. By level 20, that goes up to four turns in a row (20*6 = 120, 120 + 100 = 220. Actually available level 19). It's basically guaranteed length time stop, only without any restrictions on which actions are available for use.

Love just looks all over the place. It gets the full bonus of Valour, and the effect of Strike on that specific hit, but it then has weakened versions of Accel and Focus tossed in. So the most expensive Super Pilot Spirit... is actually kind of vague (use Strike and Valour on the same turn--immediate double damage, plus up to three other attacks all hit, and if that's a full attack you actually deal about 5x damage rather than 2x) on what it's for. And it only costs 4 more spirit, as well as giving you two options to use individually.

Here's a strange thing: Ship Captain Spirits cost more to use than the equivalent self-buffs. Odd. Also, Enable + Zeal. We've got this guy up to five turns straight, now.

Does Fierce Fight stack with Valour? Also, since this isn't double damage, does this mean rolling and then multiplying by one and a half.

Refresh seems strictly inferior to Guts even for the cost, assuming your mecha HP is not strictly 10 x Pilot Level. Same deal for Trust and Faith, with the added addition of Xd6 healing being pretty low.

Side note: Warrior Spirit has given me the suspicion the best way to build a Super Robot is to take as many extra attacks as possible and go with multiweapon fighting.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 12:55:57 PM »
Ship Captain spirits cost more and/or are less powerful because they work on allies as well as yourself. That's a really big deal, esp healing wise.

Refresh is only inferior to Guts if you wait to use Guts until you've taken more than half your HP in damage, which is risky. Refresh also synergies better with spirit regen, since you can use it more frequently for a lower cost.

My issue with the healing spirits is that Super Pilots seem to get all the healing while Real Pilots get none. A Real Pilot can't access nanomachines at all (unless they prestige out) and they have to pay a surcharge on healing spirits. Given that these abilities are pretty friggin powerful (both are actionless healing for a considerable amount), that's potentially problematic.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 01:02:05 PM by Concerned Ninja Citizen »

Offline ketaro

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 12:58:10 PM »

Zeal... oh god. At level 14, a Real Pilot with the highest available Spirit-boosting item can use this twice in a row to gain three turns straight. By level 20, that goes up to four turns in a row (20*6 = 120, 120 + 100 = 220. Actually available level 19). It's basically guaranteed length time stop, only without any restrictions on which actions are available for use.


In the description of the Spirited class ability in each respective pilot class it says you can't activate the same spirit multiple times a round.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 01:13:18 PM »
Refresh is only inferior to Guts if you wait to use Guts until you've taken more than half your HP in damage, which is risky. Refresh also synergies better with spirit regen, since you can use it more frequently for a lower cost.

If you have more than 200 HP, Refresh gets weaker and weaker, comparatively. I think that's the bit that bothers me. At level 20, it restores an average of 110 (and because of the way normal distributions work, that's going to be kept to pretty closely). As you add on more and more health, it gets easier and easier to survive to the point Guts is the better option. I guess I'm more baffled by the way one scales with max HP and the other doesn't.

As for why Super Robots have all the healing, I guess it's for the same reason that Reals get all attacks in a full round hitting, movement, and general precision and skill type stuff; thematics. Super Robots are the things that seem to have a compulsion against dying.


Zeal... oh god. At level 14, a Real Pilot with the highest available Spirit-boosting item can use this twice in a row to gain three turns straight. By level 20, that goes up to four turns in a row (20*6 = 120, 120 + 100 = 220. Actually available level 19). It's basically guaranteed length time stop, only without any restrictions on which actions are available for use.


In the description of the Spirited class ability in each respective pilot class it says you can't activate the same spirit multiple times a round.

It specifies turn. There's no reason to use Zeal more than once a turn anyway, so you can use it like this.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 01:21:57 PM »
Refresh is only inferior to Guts if you wait to use Guts until you've taken more than half your HP in damage, which is risky. Refresh also synergies better with spirit regen, since you can use it more frequently for a lower cost.

If you have more than 200 HP, Refresh gets weaker and weaker, comparatively. I think that's the bit that bothers me. At level 20, it restores an average of 110 (and because of the way normal distributions work, that's going to be kept to pretty closely). As you add on more and more health, it gets easier and easier to survive to the point Guts is the better option. I guess I'm more baffled by the way one scales with max HP and the other doesn't.

So Refresh is a better low level option, while Guts is stronger at high levels? Isn't that a pretty standard setup?

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 01:27:03 PM »
Not really, because Spirits don't seem to be replaceable, and everything scales pretty linearly. At level 4, I only heal, on average, 22 HP. Either pilot can have a 65 HP mecha at that point.

Offline Concerned Ninja Citizen

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 02:17:34 PM »
Spirits aren't replaceable but you get several of them over your career. Like stances.

At level 4 you have 32 spirit points if you're a Super Pilot or 24 if you're Real. Refresh still seems like a superior choice if you plan to do anything else with spirits at all (even if you don't, much of the time.) This is doubly true if you add spirit regen to the equation, which I would be inclined to do for pretty much any character that decided to care about spirits.

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 03:29:57 PM »
Alert vs Break the Unbreakable: which wins?
That maneuver's latest version already mentions that.

Focus is curious in that I'm not sure when you would consider using it.
Cheap bonus numbers.

Valour is vastly more expensive than Strike, which looks odd--for twice the cost, you get something that basically gives you an automatic critical by another name but has to hit first?
Hmm, yes. Hiting already is easy if you know what you're doing. Doubling damage, now that's more rare.

Zeal... oh god. At level 14, a Real Pilot with the highest available Spirit-boosting item can use this twice in a row to gain three turns straight. By level 20, that goes up to four turns in a row (20*6 = 120, 120 + 100 = 220. Actually available level 19). It's basically guaranteed length time stop, only without any restrictions on which actions are available for use.
My bad, you're completely right, put in a 1/round limitation.

Love just looks all over the place. It gets the full bonus of Valour, and the effect of Strike on that specific hit, but it then has weakened versions of Accel and Focus tossed in. So the most expensive Super Pilot Spirit... is actually kind of vague (use Strike and Valour on the same turn--immediate double damage, plus up to three other attacks all hit, and if that's a full attack you actually deal about 5x damage rather than 2x) on what it's for. And it only costs 4 more spirit, as well as giving you two options to use individually.
It also costs more spirits known, which you have a very limited pool to pick from. You can go for Valor and Strike and four other spirits, or you can go for Love and five other spirits.

Here's a strange thing: Ship Captain Spirits cost more to use than the equivalent self-buffs. Odd. Also, Enable + Zeal. We've got this guy up to five turns straight, now.
Ship captain spirits can be used in allies. Also limited Enable to 1/round.

Does Fierce Fight stack with Valour? Also, since this isn't double damage, does this mean rolling and then multiplying by one and a half.
Yes to both.

Refresh seems strictly inferior to Guts even for the cost, assuming your mecha HP is not strictly 10 x Pilot Level. Same deal for Trust and Faith, with the added addition of Xd6 healing being pretty low.
You can pick up and start using Refresh/Trust a lot earlier than you can pick up and start using Guts/Faith.

Side note: Warrior Spirit has given me the suspicion the best way to build a Super Robot is to take as many extra attacks as possible and go with multiweapon fighting.
Well it's a viable route yes. But the top Burning Justice attacks are single attacks.

My issue with the healing spirits is that Super Pilots seem to get all the healing while Real Pilots get none. A Real Pilot can't access nanomachines at all (unless they prestige out) and they have to pay a surcharge on healing spirits. Given that these abilities are pretty friggin powerful (both are actionless healing for a considerable amount), that's potentially problematic.

Again, Super Robots are the ones that are suposed to instantly repairing themselves. Real Robots are suposed to get out of the way with Alert and Focus.

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2013, 09:19:13 AM »
Now that you've drawn my attention to it again...

Strike: automatically hit for one round. Any attack roll. Miss chances, concealment, cover? Nope. Makes sure that a save against a damaging effect fails. The wording means that it'll work on AoO's too, and if you use Zeal after Strike, that's two turns of hitting anything and everything. Its one counter is Alert, which would only block one attack. How much Spirit does this cost? It's the cheapest offensive, tied with simply doubling your crit range for one attack (and it's hard to buff crit ranges with mecha attacks, too)

Now, Valour costs double that, and will double the damage on your next attack. Just your next attack. So, probably best to use on an Area effect--except, unlike Strike,  half of that can still miss, so you'd still be dealing the exact same damage.

Mm, also: Spirit Regen x2, take Strike (well, if you're a Real Pilot, if you're a Super Pilot you'd have to take it three times), and you can dump all attack bonus-oriented abilities because there's no way that you're ever going to miss again.

What I'm trying to get at: either Strike seems massively underpriced or the critical and double damage spirits have been vastly overpriced. It doesn't matter if hitting might be easier to get than double damage when you pay half the cost per round to make everything you do hit. 'You're more likely to crit this attack' does not seem as useful as 'everything you do hits, start multiattacking like a maniac'.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 09:48:48 AM by Raineh Daze »

Offline oslecamo

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2013, 10:04:21 AM »
First of all, bear in mind that nothing prevents you from just stacking Strike and Valor. So if Valor applied to all attacks...

Now, I point out that DR is easily obtainable around here. Which means multiple weaker attacks aren't neary as efficient as a single big blow.

Then there's the part that Strike disables your possibility of criting (since you don't roll). Also you have several arsenal and real robot options that grant you great crit threats/multipliers, that can then be further combined with Super Robot Main weapon.

EDIT: And yes, Strike is kinda intended to support Macross Missile Massacre combat style.

If anything, Strike could get a price bump in spirit points. Perhaps 30.

« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 10:12:42 AM by oslecamo »

Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Spirit List
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2013, 10:13:29 AM »
Going to admit that the thing about Strike's pricing that most throws me off is the cost comparison with increasing your chance to crit. Because seriously, guaranteed round of hitting attacks is the same cost as a potential damage multiplier for one attack? :huh

Whilst DR is easily obtainable, so's negating DR.

EDIT: Yeah, the fact that Strike seems too cheap was kind of the issue, there. :p

Also, you have just given me an idea for a crit focused Real/Super. >.>