Author Topic: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure  (Read 18745 times)

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2014, 10:25:03 PM »
For once in my life, I am inclined to take Leadership.

Because Epic Leadership indicates that you can get really old dragons as Cohorts. And I was planning to go for draconic heritage of some description (I like those spells). Much use as that would be against a god, aiming for a Wyrm or Ancient Wyrm red or gold dragon sounds fun. :p

Though now I'm trying to remember if the bonuses from tomes and casting Wish stacks. :lmao
Bonuses don't stack, they're both inherent.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2014, 10:29:19 PM »
For once in my life, I am inclined to take Leadership.

Because Epic Leadership indicates that you can get really old dragons as Cohorts. And I was planning to go for draconic heritage of some description (I like those spells). Much use as that would be against a god, aiming for a Wyrm or Ancient Wyrm red or gold dragon sounds fun. :p

Though now I'm trying to remember if the bonuses from tomes and casting Wish stacks. :lmao
Bonuses don't stack, they're both inherent.

I made a thread to check this. : D

The wording, as it turns out, is in Wish. Maximum inherent bonus is +5, and they don't stack.

Offline professorgear

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Vian
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2014, 12:55:40 AM »
Sorry if this seriously inconveniences people, but I'm going to require people be human (with templates, if you like) because it will make the narrative easier to handle. Otherwise we'd have to find a place in the heavens for a non-human god stealing a divine spark from a human pantheon.

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2014, 12:59:05 AM »
Aw, damn. And I had a fluff-backstory-thing written for the Phaerimm, too.

Hm. Hum hum hmm. Maybe I'll stick with the theurgic follower of Mystra idea, but take a different approach...

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2014, 09:07:52 AM »
Mm... well, not really so interested, then. Humans are boring. The thing that makes them good is meaningless with this scale of levels. And finding a place for a nonhuman god is surprisingly straightforward, since I imagine the Secrets thing isn't going to simply vanish into nowhere. That, or things like Shapechange.

Well, going to make a try at it anyway, since I forgot this was PF, which means Human Sorcerer gets some VERY nice tricks.

Also, 32 PB, really? :O

EDIT: Well, my current idea is Sorcerer 30/Incantatrix 10/Cleric 5/Walker in the Waste 10 if some way presents itself of getting at the Thirst or Sand domains (because I don't think FR clerics can just follow an ideal). Almost certainly going to be linked with Netheril somehow, even if it's just historical curiosity. Only adds up to 55 because WitW adds a +5 LA template at level 10.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 03:42:11 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2014, 05:54:20 PM »
Thinking of a Sorcerer / Cleric / Dweomerkeeper (maybe with Incantatrix as well, though I'm liking the theurgy more); power source of the sorcerer would be Phaerimm bloodA Wizard Did It (TM), just because I can't stop thinking of this motivation:

Quote
I will remove these last, straggling members of the Netherese from this place. This is my right.

In my blood flows the power of the ancient Phaerimm, the sorcerers who brought the Sarrukh empire crashing down thirty-three thousand years ago. I carry the power of my heritage, the same Phaerimm who turned the empire of Low Netheril into the broken, burned desert of Aunaroch.

In my mind is held the magic of Mystra, the Lady of Mysteries and Our Lady of Spells. Her strength supports me and her power buoys me in my quest. I hold and fuse the Weave from both my blood and my faith, and it powers my quest. I will end that pitiful 'Lady of Loss', and rip from her the divine spark, control and rule beside Mystra. I will burn her hidden, Shadow Weave, and I will watch it burn alongside the Netherese.

These last survivors who live in the desert? Those last, pitiful Netherese who call themselves sorcerers and mage-kings? I will send their floating home crashing into the desert sands that was once their empire, and never will be again.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2014, 06:00:48 PM »
So... your ideal is anti-Netheril, mine is pro-Netheril that possibly escaped the collapse of the Empire by not even beginning to be present in Abeir-Toril at the time?

Arcane or Imperious Bloodline on my part. :lmao

Offline professorgear

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Vian
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2014, 06:56:37 PM »
@Raineh Daze: One thing I also had to consider was how many worshipers you would get as a new god come out of nowhere. Some practical people worship Shar, like others worship other deities, simply because they like the things she represents and could care less what personality holds that portfolio. But in the beginning at least, the vast majority of Shar's worshipers would not worship you because they did like Shar. If you were also not human, you would retain even fewer worshipers. You need some strength in your base till you can gain some converts with your winsome personality.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2014, 07:01:28 PM »
@Raineh Daze: One thing I also had to consider was how many worshipers you would get as a new god come out of nowhere. Some practical people worship Shar, like others worship other deities, simply because they like the things she represents and could care less what personality holds that portfolio. But in the beginning at least, the vast majority of Shar's worshipers would not worship you because they did like Shar. If you were also not human, you would retain even fewer worshipers. You need some strength in your base till you can gain some converts with your winsome personality.

Well, an ECL 60 spellcaster with even the most basic of god benefits is pretty damn overkill. :p

Anyway, the Cleric thing above?

I also take it that it's probably bad form to have a century-long +150 enhancement bonus to CHA, and then four more for the other stats? Just on the grounds of being ridiculous? :lmao

Huh, forgot about this, knock off 5 Sorcerer levels.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 07:53:27 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline professorgear

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Vian
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2014, 07:55:21 PM »
Oh first of all, I just found out Pathfinder point buy is not the same as 3.5. So according to Pathfinder, you will be using 25 point buy.

@Raineh Daze: Looks like if you kill Shar you would take on the Undead Qualities salient divine ability. I would suggest a slightly different build, but the one you present is perfectly acceptable.

Sorcerer 28/Incantatrix 10/Cleric 7/Walker in the Waste 10

If you give yourself 2 more levels of cleric, you would be able to cast epic arcane and divine spells. In reality, though, I would probably change your build even more.

Sorcerer 18/Incantatrix 10/Cleric 17/Walker in the Waste 10

If you give yourself 17 levels of cleric, then you qualify for the Undead Mastery salient divine ability, which you may want. Concerning which deity you would worship, you know you can choose an ideal in 3rd edition just like you can in Pathfinder? In fact, while I agree with you it can be just a kind of easy way out, in cases like this it may be preferable. I would rather you pick an ideal than a god that didn't fit the flavor. And once you become a god, your divine spellcasting will come from yourself anyway. If you do pick a god, then once you become a god we'll want to describe your new relationship with that deity as probably a subservient deity. At the very least, you would be an unwavering ally.

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2014, 08:02:40 PM »
Honestly, the only reason for picking up Cleric was to meet the criteria for Walker in the Waste, and thus pick up Dry Lich organically rather than arising from seemingly nowhere*. :lmao

Yeah, full Arcane/Divine casting would be powerful--but the difference is pretty meaningless.

Ditto for Netherese Arcanist being a bad thing in that it prevents entire Epic seeds, but to hell with it, it fits the flavour (which is that a sorcerer took a sojourn well away from the Prime Material, and was rather annoyed to find everything wrecked when they got back. Also has a personal grudge against the city in the Shadow Plane or whatever its exact name is).

*And Dry Lich gets more interesting stuff than the normal lich. CHA to HP for one.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 08:12:51 PM by Raineh Daze »

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2014, 10:28:53 PM »
I... hm... Gear, any ideas for mine? Or is Raineh just going to get it and I can stop checking this? Switched to Wizard because I can't think of a good way to have Phaerimm blood. :sad:

Idea I had been plotting out:
Male, Human DemiLich [Chosen of Mystra? FRCS, p247 as a base? It seems to be incomplete]
Wizard 5 / Incantatrix (+Wizard) 10 / Cleric 3 / Dweomerkeeper (+Cleric) 10 /  Mystic Theurge 10 / Swiftblade 10 / Lich (+4 LA) / Demilich (+8 LA)

Use both kinds of magic (Arcane, Divine). Flavor was above; burning out Shar and her last stronghold of heretic followers, reclaiming the Shadow Weave and watching it burn to leave only the pure Weave.

edit: After thought, may drop the last 10 Incantatrix to pick up Evasion / Mettle. Seems like those are useful for the save-and-still-suck heavy areas in epic campaigns.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:53:53 PM by Gazzien »

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2014, 11:02:58 PM »
I'm surprised you guys aren't using demilich, or paragon (or even pseudonatural). Just because you started out as human, doesn't mean you couldn't become... more:P

Demilich in particular looks tasty to me for this...
Quote
Magic Immunity (Ex)
Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows. A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally.
It seems like this should even work against deific magic...

Or hell... Chosen of Mystra would work here quite well.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:09:06 PM by phaedrusxy »
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2014, 11:38:39 PM »
I'm surprised you guys aren't using demilich, or paragon (or even pseudonatural). Just because you started out as human, doesn't mean you couldn't become... more:P

Demilich in particular looks tasty to me for this...
Quote
Magic Immunity (Ex)
Demiliches are immune to all magical and supernatural effects, except as follows. A shatter spell affects a demilich as if it were a crystalline creature, but deals half the damage normally indicated. A dispel evil spell deals 3d6 points of damage (Fort save for half damage). Holy smite spells affect demiliches normally.
It seems like this should even work against deific magic...

Or hell... Chosen of Mystra would work here quite well.
... Screw those last levels, I'm going to go Demilich. Already wondering about Chosen of Mystra, too. Is there a different one than in the FRCS?

Edit: What even is the LA on a Demilich?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:41:05 PM by Gazzien »

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2014, 11:47:11 PM »
You have to go by the example, which lets you extrapolate/calculate it to be +8 (on top of the +4 for lich, for a total of +12). See this thread for discussion.

IIRC, Paragon was +12 or +15 (or was it +11?...). You also had to use the example creature to figure that one out.
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2014, 11:54:18 PM »
You have to go by the example, which lets you extrapolate/calculate it to be +8 (on top of the +4 for lich, for a total of +12). See this thread for discussion.

IIRC, Paragon was +12 or +15 (or was it +11?...). You also had to use the example creature to figure that one out.
Thank you, Phaedrus. ^__^

Edited the thing above to account for that.

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #36 on: March 19, 2014, 12:00:03 AM »
You might consider 10 levels of rogue just so you can take this epic feat. (It might come in handy if she actually gets to hit you, given that she has Annihilating Strike).
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline professorgear

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Vian
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #37 on: March 19, 2014, 12:01:23 AM »
I quite like your character's flavor Gazzien. Even if there isn't a mechanical expression of your sorcerer's heritage, we could still say in the narrative that it comes from the Phaerimm. I guess I was just preoccupied answering questions. I'm not really sure what is acceptable etiquette in this situation. How much should I ask of you guys before I make a selection? If this were lower level, I might just ask you to make a complete build. But ECL 60 is quite an investment of time. At least, for me it is, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist. I'm thinking April 1st for an ultimatum.

I didn't realize when I made the OP that ECL has been done-away-with in Pathfinder. Everything like that now relies on the CR mechanic, I'm just not sure how. I think CR is equivalent to ECL in Pathfinder. In any event, if you guys pick more than just vanilla humans with class levels, try and find the Pathfinder equivalent. If you still want something but can't find it, let me know. Concerning Chosen of Mystra, I think I was going to ask the players to choose between either that OR the Deicide spell, but not both.

I will probably be running this game on myth-weavers, so I've also placed an ad there. I'm assuming this group is strong on minmaxing. If any of you feel less than confident in your power-gaming abilities, let me know, and we'll see what we can do. However, I haven't heard enough on character backgrounds yet. Would you guys like me to create a folder where you can start application threads? Do I just ask a moderator for a subforum? Anybody know a moderator I can ask?

Offline professorgear

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 195
  • Vian
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #38 on: March 19, 2014, 12:10:58 AM »
Oh and one more thing Gazzien. I had a different applicant with a similar idea about destroying the Shadow Weave. Just because Shar, who had control over the Shadow Weave as Mystra over the Weave, used it for her particular purposes, doesn't mean you couldn't use it for your purposes, however opposed they are to Shar's (as long as it doesn't involve casting light spells, lol).

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: One-on-One Deicide/Apotheosis Adventure
« Reply #39 on: March 19, 2014, 12:22:57 AM »
Oh and one more thing Gazzien. I had a different applicant with a similar idea about destroying the Shadow Weave. Just because Shar, who had control over the Shadow Weave as Mystra over the Weave, used it for her particular purposes, doesn't mean you couldn't use it for your purposes, however opposed they are to Shar's (as long as it doesn't involve casting light spells, lol).
xD I guess. I always saw the Shadow Weave as a twisted subversion of the normal Weave, though.

Hm, guess I'm back to Sorcerer / Cleric, then? -shrug-

Are you okay with Demilich (assuming I use Pathfinder normal-lich already), and maybe even helping me 'brew / 'brewing up a half-Phaerimm or Phaerimm-blooded template? Looking for something like Half Dragon (CR +2), though I'm not sure what that would entail as a Phaerimm.