Author Topic: Southpaw OOC  (Read 45614 times)

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #100 on: March 21, 2013, 11:25:27 PM »
Just quickly read Spelljammer – looking better! One immediate observation – ranges need to cover hexes once a helm is active: 600 yards = 1 hex, otherwise not useful ship to ship. Another: Smalljammers can fly themselves in wildspace and the phlogiston, so they don’t need someone to sit at the helm. If no helm till L3, ok, but it doesn’t require a rider though a rider to provide direction (suggested direction) can be permitted. Also the fly speed is too slow, even at L8 – Star’s daughter Aspera goes 2.5% of C. A reasonable minimum cruising speed on a planetary surface for a creature with an active helm is about 200mph.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #101 on: March 21, 2013, 11:47:24 PM »
Took a quick glance at the charsheet -- at the very least you need to clean up the build summary (i.e. race & level progression, the ancestor descendant thing), since it's completely incomprehensible.  Either way you need to take your first level as Spelljammer 1 // Time Dimensional 1 if you don't want to spend feats on hybridizing.

Don't do anything with the "limited shapeshifter" template or whatever; instead take the Alternate Form feat.

Just quickly read Spelljammer – looking better! One immediate observation – ranges need to cover hexes once a helm is active: 600 yards = 1 hex, otherwise not useful ship to ship. Another: Smalljammers can fly themselves in wildspace and the phlogiston, so they don’t need someone to sit at the helm. If no helm till L3, ok, but it doesn’t require a rider though a rider to provide direction (suggested direction) can be permitted. Also the fly speed is too slow, even at L8 – Star’s daughter Aspera goes 2.5% of C. A reasonable minimum cruising speed on a planetary surface for a creature with an active helm is about 200mph.
Re: Helm, that's not an issue -- it's your fly speed, you can fly yourself where you want to go.  The Helm just gives someone else the opportunity to steer, and in particular to pull evasive maneuvers via Mounted Combat.

As per the speed itself, you need to temper your expectations a bit.  Note that you don't get to spacetravel until 18th level, and can't enter the Phlogiston until 20th.  Once you become spaceworthy, your space tactical speed will be active.   The kinds of speeds you're talking about just aren't doable for this game.
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #102 on: March 22, 2013, 12:13:16 AM »
We have to square this up somehow with the fact that Smalljammers are born in Wildspace, not on a planetary surface. They can fall to a planetary surface, but would need some flying ability not to burn up on re-entry or get squashed by falling at terminal velocity. It doesn't have to be much, not 200mph. Perhaps just move 30 fly to L1? That would be simple.

Another squaring up - to travel from world to world for their extensive knowledge, they need to get away from the planetary surface to  break into the Phlogiston. You don't do that close to a planet. Of course, perhaps a Smalljammer can... you could add that as a feature. So, the point is they need a fly speed to move away from the surface, albeit slowly, get back out into Wildspace, and go to the next world; an L1 30 fly would do that... takes time, but with several days of flying straight up, they could be far enough out of the planet's gravity.

The net of this is: I suggest you add fly 30 to L1 and "entry to the Phlogiston" at L1, or L2 at the latest.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #103 on: March 22, 2013, 12:23:56 AM »
The problem with that is that a 30-foot fly speed at level 1 can be game-breaking.  I also don't want to introduce phlogiston-stuff too early, because it completely changes the dynamic of campaigns.

In terms of the re-entry thing, that's easy.  They fall as a seed, the outer layers get stripped away and the inner regions get incubated during re-entry.  The ship stays dormant until it hits the ground, hatching it.

Also I would rather change the fluff for "well-traveled", to make it about a racial memory of different places instead.  Or something.

EDIT: I added some stuff which may help.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 02:00:29 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #104 on: March 22, 2013, 02:30:02 PM »
Yes, the adds definitely helped, thanks! There are several things for you to think about here.

Racial memory: perfect solution, and I had conceived of something like that myself… The Spelljammer knows much of what its predecessors knew, so the knowledge must be transmitted to the descendants.

I just reviewed some of the original print books, and there are a couple of other abilities that we’re missing:

  • Natural Illusion: This one is straight from the book. A Smalljammer can create a perfect, non-detectable illusion around itself so that it looks like another ship, an asteroid (or presumably a hillock or rock outcropping if landed, or a small island if on water), or another creature (in Wildspace, typically a space monster type). The illusion cannot be penetrated at a distance, but is automatically penetrated at close approach, within the Smalljammer’s air envelope. That’s about 30 feet off the ship, larger at a larger size. So, this effect is perfect for hiding at a distance, and useless or worse for hiding in a crowd.
  • Sense Portal: At some point the Smalljammer should probably be able to sense natural openings into the Phlogiston, and be drawn to them.

To make the character concept work, given these constraints, I guess I have to flip around the setup:

Smalljammer 7, Holomancer 1 on the descendant side
Time Dimensional 3, Holomancer 5 on the ancestor side
Net: Smalljammer 7, Time Dimensional 3, Holomancer 6

And yes, Smalljammer 1 // Time Dimensional 1 was always the plan; I have no Feats to spare to do it otherwise, and there’s no story reason to do it otherwise. If it matters, it’s easy to make the Holomancer levels never line up, via

Smalljammer 1 // Time Dimensional 1
Smalljammer 2 // Time Dimensional 2
Smalljammer 3 // Holomancer 1
Smalljammer 4 // Holomancer 2
Smalljammer 5 // Holomancer 3
Smalljammer 6 // Holomancer 4
Smalljammer 7 // Holomancer 5
Holomancer 1 // Time Dimensional 3

Does that clear up the race and progression?

Story logic: Given the current RAW, that many levels of Smalljammer are needed for her to have traveled from world to world already as a Smalljammer, for the outcast-in-hiding story. The Alternate Form has to come in at some point, still thinking about that; it needs to be an ability that improved, I think, rather than one from the start, for the storyline to work, no?. Then her one Holomancer level on the descendant side is a profession recently taken so that she could be useful in the society where she wanted to stay, and especially so that she could get hired at the Observatory where they study the stars, which fascinated her. (The Charm ability didn’t’ hurt either, in getting hired as a L1 Holomancer.) Bright shiny things have always had a special fascination for her (Weakness) and the stars especially, for obvious personal reasons. And she had a natural proclivity to Holomancer, though she didn’t know why until The Ancestor Change hit her and she suddenly found herself understanding a LOT more about Holomancy and Illusion than before.

The Story logic also worked for Smalljammer 3, Holomancer 5, but the world-to-world travel doesn’t. I have yet another idea on this subject….

First, I’ll note that for the “Smalljammer Who Fell To Earth” part of the story, I think Glide covers that without a Fly speed; she can just Glide to the surface without damage. The “seed” idea works, but only for the first world she visited.

How does +8 Jump matter much for a creature that Hovers and Glides? You could Jump up a few feet, that’s about it; could you then Hover at the new height, or would you sink? It doesn’t hurt, of course, but what do you want to accomplish? Perhaps there is something else instead? If you DO get to Hover at the new height, then it’s a way to go UP!! Albeit very slowly.

An inconsistency to resolve: Smalljammers as constructs are immune to fatigue, but the “Assisted Ram” fatigues them. Again, looking at various alternatives to go UP without a Fly speed, this is one of them. If there is no fatigue, then eventually, going up at 150ft per round, the Smalljammer would be able to get off-planet. I understand you want to limit Assisted Ram charges during combat. If the ability was usable no more frequently than every other round in combat for some other reason besides fatigue, for example because you have to re-orient your position before doing such an extreme charge again, then the limitation is there… and a way to go UP is there too, without introducing the inconsistency of fatigue. Then I could go back to the idea of Smalljammer 3, Time Dimensional  7, or now that I’ve seen more of Smalljammer, maybe Smalljammer 4, Time Dimensional 6.

I’m not sure I’ll do that though; more levels of TD may be very useful (especially TD7!!) but more levels of Smalljammer and fewer of TD, also with Holomancer mostly on the Ancestor side, are much more in keeping with YOUR story line. So I may go with SJ7 and get to the Fly speed directly. Still, the Assisted Ram trick would account for the extensive travel beginning at SJ2, which *is* more consistent with her Story, and with the “extensive geography” which could be personal as well as racial memory.

PS. Even with Fatigue operating, she could have a Ring of Feather Falling (2200gp) coupled with a Ring of Lesser Restoration from a Paladin(L1, 2000gp), by L4 (WBL 5400gp). Then she could go up 150ft, wait a round if necessary for the Restoration to kick in, recover, and go up another 150ft, while losing only 60ft per round. I think the Restoration Ring would work in 1 round, but if the Ring took 3 rounds for its fatigue removal to kick in as per spell, then she also needs a Ring of Feather Falling to cap the altitude loss at 180ft (net -30ft), and then with a LOT of persistence eventually she would be off-world, though it could take a long time before she was lucky enough to roll a quicker recovery than the 3 round cap, enough times more or less in a row. Or I can just give her the Quick trait, to increase base speed to 40. Then she goes up 200ft each time, and is always at least +20ft in 3 rounds, with this combo. It might take a long time, but eventually, it works. Would this ability to gain height break a game? Kind of slow, at the tactical level :-)

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #105 on: April 01, 2013, 03:10:05 PM »
You guys are getting 1 more player (DragoonWraith) who will be posting soon.  I'm going to start this up tonight or tomorrow morning.
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Offline Flay Crimsonwind

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #106 on: April 01, 2013, 05:04:58 PM »
Sweeeet! Glad to hear it, more company and start times galore! Been itching to see how this dragon works out.
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Offline DragoonWraith

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #107 on: April 02, 2013, 10:24:19 AM »
Hi all; just saying hi. Sirpercival recruited me from #legend.
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Offline MetroMagic

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #108 on: April 02, 2013, 03:53:52 PM »
Hi! Your character description looks really interesting, and the party is a little short on cleric-power, so… shaman/cleric, great! Welcome!

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #109 on: April 02, 2013, 07:05:56 PM »
Hey there and welcome. Worldhewn looks like a really interesting race. Are there stats for them anywhere around? I couldn't find them on your sheet.

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #110 on: April 02, 2013, 07:22:06 PM »
Hi!
Hi!

Your character description looks really interesting
\o/ Thanks! Glad you think so.

the party is a little short on cleric-power, so… shaman/cleric, great!
Actually my first character ever with more than a Cleric-1-dip's worth of divine spellcasting.

Welcome!
Thanks!

Hey there and welcome. Worldhewn looks like a really interesting race. Are there stats for them anywhere around? I couldn't find them on your sheet.
The stats are on the sheet, under the list of weapons, with the Worldhewn Racial Features heading. You can click on any of the listed features there to see the full text of the feature. I literally wrote up the race for this game, so they're not anywhere else.

The fluff of them is lovingly ripped off Flickerdart's Crucible elves; I really wish I could take full credit it for them.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #111 on: April 02, 2013, 08:24:44 PM »
DW, do you know where to find the Shaman's full spell list, by any chance? The page in your link only seems to have spells up to 3rd. This seems important, given that your character will have 4th level spells.

Offline DragoonWraith

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #112 on: April 02, 2013, 08:44:31 PM »
DW, do you know where to find the Shaman's full spell list, by any chance? The page in your link only seems to have spells up to 3rd. This seems important, given that your character will have 4th level spells.
No, because I haven't written it yet. Or rather, I've written up most of the 4th-level spells but haven't actually posted them. I'm hoping to get a chance to sit down and chat with sirpercival over concerns I have about the class and the spell list as a whole though. As I wrote that sheet I came to the conclusion that the class has ridiculous spell access. They're mostly random Spell Compendium and Outside-series spells without most of the killer spells (no divine power, for instance), but still, spontaneous full-list at-will casting from what is becoming a very-large list...
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:48:28 PM by DragoonWraith »
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Offline Garryl

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #113 on: April 02, 2013, 09:09:53 PM »
I've done worse. See my Mage for nigh-at-will, semi-spontaneous spellcasting with access to the full Wizard list. I'm still in the process of making it not be way more powerful than the Wizard.

Offline sirpercival

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #114 on: April 03, 2013, 02:18:44 PM »
Your IC thread is active!
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #115 on: April 04, 2013, 07:49:17 AM »
All three are go. Yay, more to read~ :D

It's a good thing I'm not in this group, I'd have studiously ignored the entrance of the ship. Easily disproved narration like 'grabs everyone's attention'? Just asking to be proved wrong. :rolleyes

I thought the ship classification was caravel, though? -Checks- Oh, wait, Portuguese spelling, carry on. XD

Offline DragoonWraith

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #116 on: April 04, 2013, 10:07:11 AM »
Honestly, yeah. Can I get some notion of the nature of the force behind CaraVela's attraction? Because you basically just described my character acting, thinking, and feeling in ways that are grossly out of character. Someone apparently weak and in need of protection would garner less attention from Liltar: written off as not a threat, and that's it. If there's magic behind it, of what sort?

For that matter, I'm going to say that Liltar cast protection from law just before entering the palace, and is going to be using detect magic, detect poison, and detect incarnum to survey the crowd.
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Offline sirpercival

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #117 on: April 04, 2013, 10:34:11 AM »
Everyone lights up as magical, and the elf lights up as incarnum (faint).  I don't believe anyone detects as poison, though...

EDIT: And (MM check me if I'm wrong) I believe those feelings are from the Charming Aura of the Spelljammer, right?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2013, 10:36:36 AM by sirpercival »
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Offline Raineh Daze

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #118 on: April 04, 2013, 10:35:47 AM »
I'm going to take a guess that it's her CHA score.

Offline MetroMagic

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Re: Southpaw OOC
« Reply #119 on: April 04, 2013, 01:15:53 PM »
Oops, in trouble already  :-)

Guilty as charged, though I didn’t specify anyone else’s character actions, or reactions – or didn’t intend to! I tried to write it carefully to be clear it is a feeling  being pushed upon you (by magical effect, not just moderately high CHA) that takes some effort of WILL to resist, rather than a feeling you had generated on your own. But it’s a push that everyone could resist if they choose to do so.

I'd have studiously ignored the entrance of the ship. Easily disproved narration like 'grabs everyone's attention'? Just asking to be proved wrong. :rolleyes
Point well taken, a character who is immune to Enchantment/Charm would not be affected and therefore would have no special awareness of her entering the room, since they have no save to make. I’m amending the post.

Any character who wants to studiously avoid her – of course! And if you wrote her off as harmless, she likes that, hopes for it, so we’re on the same page. In her backstory, she had to figure out how not to scare people, and eventually had to leave quite a few worlds prior to this one where she has finally found a comfortable place.

Even better, if SirP is willing I’d like to establish a house rule that any PC auto-saves against this effect if the player wants; it’s not my intention to Charm the party.

It’s WILL DC 21 (here), not too hard for most of the PCs in this game, but not so easy for commoner NPCs. You’ll see in backstory that she doesn’t know she’s doing this, but does enjoy being liked, at last, since that has been a problem on other worlds.

For your convenience here are the class abilities:

Charm (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, creatures are inexplicably drawn to you.  You can use charm person as a supernatural ability, requiring a standard action, a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier.  The DC to resist your charms is equal to 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Charisma modifier.

Charming aura (Su): Beginning at 6th level, your mere presence is enough to charm nearby creatures.  Any creature which approaches within 30 feet of you is automatically affected as if by your Charm class feature (this does not count as a use of your Charm ability, but does allow a save as normal).  You may raise or lower this aura as a swift action.

BTW, for the Detects to work:

For that matter, I'm going to say that Liltar cast protection from law just before entering the palace, and is going to be using detect magic, detect poison, and detect incarnum to survey the crowd.
CaraVela has Nondetect, with a CL check of DC15 to break through, as an element of the “sneak around and search” package I built for her to reflect her ancestor who is very, very good at that. She can’t lower her Nondetect easily, but if she can notice what you’re doing (she has Detect Magic up, herself, and good at Spellcraft) then she will immediately apologize for blocking the info, and tell you in a quiet side conversation that she doesn’t want to earn your distrust, and answers what you’d like to know. It’s up to you whether you trust her answers, but she is very forthcoming about the info and seems open and honest about it, and truly apologetic if her defenses blocked the Detect. OR, maybe she doesn’t notice, you simply don’t detect magic or incarnum on her, and so she is even less interesting, and a total write-off not worth your attention.

On the other hand, if you’re familiar with Incarnum, you can’t miss the cerulean blue glow in her eyes, and the cerulean blue of a crown chakra bind – so then the question might be: how come I should be Detecting the Incarnum and I’m not? As to whether this raises CaraVela to a status above “wimp to be ignored”, that’s up to you.