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Creative Corner => Play By Post => Topic started by: Quillwraith on May 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PM

Title: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 02, 2016, 07:05:35 PM
Perhaps you took a wrong turn traveling. Perhaps you didn’t know the portal was there, until you’d stepped through. Maybe you left your house one foggy day and found that your front door lead somewhere that isn’t home, or were lost at sea and found yourself sailing a different sea entirely.
However it happened, whether captured by creatures of the planes or stumbling through darkness to another place, you unlucky strays find yourselves together
here... wherever here may be.


This is a reboot of Souls (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11686.0), one of the two campaigns I DMed a few years ago before I left the boards. Many of the players from last time are gone now, but I hope some will return as well as perhaps some of the players of Legacy of the Makers (which will not be restarting), but new players and/or characters are very welcome as well. There have been a few revisions to the setting and houserules, and I think and hope that I have improved as a DM since then.

This game is likely to be relatively low on combat as compared to diplomacy and mystery, but that's fairly flexible depending on how your characters decide to go about things. Homebrew base classes are strongly encouraged; particularly exotic parties of PCs have become a part of the style of the setting, by this point.

Level 2,  average HP, up to 2 flaws and 2 traits. Stats are 32 point buy. Moderate optimization. Houserules are here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=17249.0), setting information is here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=17246.0).

(Legacy of the Makers and Souls both died before I left the boards, though Legacy of the Makers had lasted over a year before that. Souls was very new at the time, however, which makes it my preferred choice for resurrection, since it's possible to switch players and characters without losing much progress.)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 03, 2016, 06:32:00 AM
I'd be interested in hopping in. I've certainly got enough home brew to be trying out as well. Most likely would be either an Overlord or a Commander (I'll edit links in shortly).
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 03, 2016, 11:19:45 AM
I could be tempted but I'd be making a whole new character.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 03, 2016, 12:04:42 PM
I could be tempted, pbps are slow enough to handle a couple just fine.

How about a meta character? Someone who is totally aware of how the rules work in their universe, including that they are a PC, without actually knowing about Players & Dungeon Masters. To them, the term "PC" is like what the Wheel of Time calls "ta'veren". Then combined with this, well you ran Legacy of Makers, so how about allowing some content from Munchkin d20 books? They have a bunch of meta-related stuff, like "accidentally" forgetting to record a loss of arrows and other stuff, I can comb through for a character build and if I can't find anything I like I'll just run them past you as I find (or make) something that'll work. The overall goal would be something like Red Mage meet Milo or something.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 03, 2016, 09:29:08 PM
I could be tempted but I'd be making a whole new character.
Welcome! Do you have a new concept in mind?

I'd be interested in hopping in. I've certainly got enough home brew to be trying out as well. Most likely would be either an Overlord or a Commander (I'll edit links in shortly).
I couldn't find Overlord with a quick search; I'll look it over whenever you get the link. The Commander seems like it might make things a little bit difficult, just insofar as having an additional minor character around, but I think we can work with it if you want to.

How about a meta character? Someone who is totally aware of how the rules work in their universe, including that they are a PC, without actually knowing about Players & Dungeon Masters. To them, the term "PC" is like what the Wheel of Time calls "ta'veren". Then combined with this, well you ran Legacy of Makers, so how about allowing some content from Munchkin d20 books? They have a bunch of meta-related stuff, like "accidentally" forgetting to record a loss of arrows and other stuff, I can comb through for a character build and if I can't find anything I like I'll just run them past you as I find (or make) something that'll work. The overall goal would be something like Red Mage meet Milo or something.
Much as I appreciate Milo, I'm a little wary about inviting someone like him into a campaign - this was intended as a mostly-serious setting, and met tends to lead pretty quickly to chaos and confusion. I'm not familiar with Munchkin d20, but I'm willing to take a look at it.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 03, 2016, 09:37:53 PM
Overlord. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13516.0) Of the two, I'd lean towards the Commander, it's much less effort for the DM to learn. Plus it has the whole evil necromancer thing going on.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 03, 2016, 09:39:33 PM
A concept for level 2?

Hmm, let me see...

Offhand?

Something out of this system (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=64.0), or a Gambler (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7185.0), or a necromancy focused maneuver user (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5840.0), or a paladin (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13687.0;msg=236211).

Sorry Strat, your stuff gets enough low level playtesting. :p
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 03, 2016, 09:45:59 PM
Don't make me invent a new class just to throw at you! There's always the Martyr if you don't behave :P
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 03, 2016, 10:11:47 PM
Don't make me invent a new class just to throw at you! There's always the Martyr if you don't behave :P

You can't make me play anything, especially in someone else's game.  :P
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Garryl on May 03, 2016, 11:33:30 PM
I am tentatively interested. I'm thinking of a Monk (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9324)/Spirit Warrior (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13129). Possibly an Erg (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=243.msg235732#msg235732) (from a campaign setting (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=243.msg235254#msg235254) I never finished), although that's more of a whim.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 04, 2016, 01:03:05 AM
I'm not familiar with Munchkin d20, but I'm willing to take a look at it.
A little sad humor will be limited but Munchkin does some odd stuff. Some of it can be insanely broken, like the Munchkin Domain grants Fireball at the 1st level and Wish as a 7th level Spell (magic missile is ironically 9th), but my interests lay else where. It's probably faster to list them.

Race: Half-Kender* Human
Abilities(?): Str 10, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14 (will readjust to fit your strange odd rule later)
Class: Spellthief 2
Feats: Ammo Written in Pencil1, Magic Marker2, Marker Mayhem3, Juggle The Numbers4.
Skills: Anyx2, Bluff, Craft[weaponsmithing], Knowledge[adventure spoilers]5, Pose6, Search, Disable Device.
Spells: 0th Mage Hand, Least Wish (aka prestidigitation); 1st Cheat, Scholar's Touch; 2nd Heroics, Mirror Move.
*: Half-kender is essentially meaningless. He is a very short human that claims he is half-kender when his height is pointed out.
1: DC 18 (28 if magical) to keep an arrow after being shot. The goal will be to stockpile 1~3 of every arrow possible, like +1 holy silver, +1 bane[fey] cold iron, +1 splitting, etc. since you can partially buy them for the ultimate in versatility.
2 & 3: Essentially adds wizard-like casting to the spelltheif class. Two spells of every spell level, no bonus & no changing spell choice. It'll nicely buff up the spellthief's weakness (in that is pretty much sucks).
4: I can swap spells cast, uses of a feat, damage, and 11ft pole numbers around, like instead of taking 4 damage four 11ft poles appear in my backpack. For a nice moderate power gain thanks to having such terrible spells (it'd be broken if I were a sorcerer), zero poles can be swapped to 0 spells cast today so for instance I can cast heroics twice in a single day rather than once-only. Technically says "once per session" on use but pbp don't have sessions, 1/encounter (I want to play with the poles too!) with a special 1/day limit on spells work?
5: Knowledge checks to spoil the planned adventure. Technically meaningless at level 2 if you decide everything is a "tough question" but if handled like bardic knowledge (PCs only use that to obtain exposition of the plot anyway) it works fine.
6: The DC is unnoted (10+hd?) and "-2 moral" doesn't say what it applies to (att/dmg/save/checks?), but every time I do something cool I can make a check and impose the penalty on nearby enemies.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 04, 2016, 06:10:42 PM
Something out of this system (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?board=64.0), or a Gambler (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7185.0), or a necromancy focused maneuver user (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5840.0), or a paladin (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13687.0;msg=236211).
The Spellshaping system is allowed, though there are too many classes for me to look at individually yet. Gambler is allowed. Necromancy focused maneuver users are allowed. Aura!Paladin is allowed.



I am tentatively interested. I'm thinking of a Monk (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9324)/Spirit Warrior (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13129). Possibly an Erg (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=243.msg235732#msg235732) (from a campaign setting (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=243.msg235254#msg235254) I never finished), although that's more of a whim.
Monk/Spirit Warrior strikes me as a lot of systems to deal with at once, but it's acceptable. Erg is allowed.



I'm not familiar with Munchkin d20, but I'm willing to take a look at it.
A little sad humor will be limited but Munchkin does some odd stuff. Some of it can be insanely broken, like the Munchkin Domain grants Fireball at the 1st level and Wish as a 7th level Spell (magic missile is ironically 9th), but my interests lay else where.
I'm not opposed to humor in its own right, exactly; what I'm concerned about is humor that disrupts other aspects of the game. It seems to me that a setting in which characters know they're in a game rapidly stops making much sense if it wasn't made with that sort of a premise in. If this was a fundamentally silly campaign, that wouldn't matter, but since it mostly isn't, I'd like to preserve it's ability to mostly not be.

Race: Half-Kender* Human
*: Half-kender is essentially meaningless. He is a very short human that claims he is half-kender when his height is pointed out.
I don't know exactly what a kender is, but it doesn't sound like I even need to, necessarily. Allowed

Abilities(?): Str 10, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 14 (will readjust to fit your strange odd rule later)
If you mean the houserule about effects based on one-half of an odd ability modifier, it's pretty minor; you almost certainly don't need to adjust your build based on it.

Class: Spellthief 2
Feats: Ammo Written in Pencil1, Magic Marker2, Marker Mayhem3, Juggle The Numbers4.
Skills: Anyx2, Bluff, Craft[weaponsmithing], Knowledge[adventure spoilers]5, Pose6, Search, Disable Device.
Spells: 0th Mage Hand, Least Wish (aka prestidigitation); 1st Cheat, Scholar's Touch; 2nd Heroics, Mirror Move.

1: DC 18 (28 if magical) to keep an arrow after being shot. The goal will be to stockpile 1~3 of every arrow possible, like +1 holy silver, +1 bane[fey] cold iron, +1 splitting, etc. since you can partially buy them for the ultimate in versatility.
2 & 3: Essentially adds wizard-like casting to the spelltheif class. Two spells of every spell level, no bonus & no changing spell choice. It'll nicely buff up the spellthief's weakness (in that is pretty much sucks).
4: I can swap spells cast, uses of a feat, damage, and 11ft pole numbers around, like instead of taking 4 damage four 11ft poles appear in my backpack. For a nice moderate power gain thanks to having such terrible spells (it'd be broken if I were a sorcerer), zero poles can be swapped to 0 spells cast today so for instance I can cast heroics twice in a single day rather than once-only. Technically says "once per session" on use but pbp don't have sessions, 1/encounter (I want to play with the poles too!) with a special 1/day limit on spells work?
2 is definitely okay. I can't picture the fluff on 1 and 4, but the mechanics are tentatively allowed.

5: Knowledge checks to spoil the planned adventure. Technically meaningless at level 2 if you decide everything is a "tough question" but if handled like bardic knowledge (PCs only use that to obtain exposition of the plot anyway) it works fine.
This represents the character being genre savvy, yes? Occasionally spoiling the planned adventure is likely to result in a less planned alternate adventure, which isn't a major problem for me; it sometimes happens with high knowledge checks or good guesses anyway. Allowed.

6: The DC is unnoted (10+hd?) and "-2 moral" doesn't say what it applies to (att/dmg/save/checks?), but every time I do something cool I can make a check and impose the penalty on nearby enemies.
For the sake of decisiveness, I'll rule that the DC is 10+HD and the penalty applies to attacks and checks, but not damage or saves.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 04, 2016, 06:38:56 PM
You'll want to know what a kender is if he plays the character like one.  Trust me.   :p
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 04, 2016, 06:48:24 PM
I'm not opposed to humor in its own right, exactly; what I'm concerned about is humor that disrupts other aspects of the game. It seems to me that a setting in which characters know they're in a game rapidly stops making much sense if it wasn't made with that sort of a premise in. If this was a fundamentally silly campaign, that wouldn't matter, but since it mostly isn't, I'd like to preserve it's ability to mostly not be.
I can understand that, which is also why I referenced Milo.

Red Mage from 8bit comic is essentially what you're talking about. So wrapped up in the meta he doesn't pay attention to what's happening in front of him. HP&Nd20'stake on things is much more milder, more like the observation on some of the rules of reality such as normally casting a spell every six seconds, or that special people come along and change things, or the law of reality are actually subjective thinks to the over deity DM favoring spectacular stories and will step in if the rules of reality are abused.

Kenders are btw a Drgonlance specific race and can be reboiled down to a Halfing variant. They are known for their fluff of not having any concept of ownership and would picket a gold coin just because it's shiny which is often invoked to mean theft is fair game. Except, often left out by the very same Players is a Kender would also just as easily lose the gold coin, refuse to spend it, or return it and apologize even if they don't understand why someone complained because their ADD & lack of ownership isn't all positives.

The fluff of Juggle The Numbers is pretty easy. Think of all the Maneuvers, Spells, Powers, and even Feats that already do stuff like reducing damage and such. It's just imperfect and has a side effect of producing large wooden sticks. And ditching what amounts to the excess waste allows your magic to run more efficiently like cleaning out the air filter. And yeah, genre savvy would be another way to explain it.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: phaedrusxy on May 04, 2016, 08:56:47 PM
Kenders are btw a Drgonlance specific race and can be reboiled down to a Halfing variant. They are known for their fluff of not having any concept of ownership and would picket a gold coin just because it's shiny which is often invoked to mean theft is fair game. Except, often left out by the very same Players is a Kender would also just as easily lose the gold coin, refuse to spend it, or return it and apologize even if they don't understand why someone complained because their ADD & lack of ownership isn't all positives.
They were also completely immune to fear, and insatiably curious, which often combined for great hilarity.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 04, 2016, 10:46:25 PM
Still thinking about traits, pondering and thinking. The Munchkin ones really are too powerful...
Specialized: +1 k-genre savvy, -1 all other knowledge.
And.... Theatrical: +1 bluff & pose, -1 strength-based skills (climb/jump/swim)?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 06, 2016, 06:02:17 PM
I'm bored at work so I'll narrow things down a little more.  Yes, I've got some diametrically opposed concepts here.  I've got enough ideas that I'll just pick once everyone has things a little more finalized so that I can fill any gaps.

Character ideas (In no particular order):

Gambler (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7185.0) - Social/skill/Chrisma based martial adept
Death Knight (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5841) - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
Elemental Adept (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=851.msg5267#msg5267) - Pew pew.  Uses a new casting system (spellshaping, like spells combined with maneuvers).


...off the top of my head that's all I can come up with for homebrew that looks good for second level that I am in the mood to play right now.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 06, 2016, 06:17:09 PM
Started in on the character build - Commander PC (http://).

And I'd vote for the Necromancer, but that's always my taste  :D
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 07, 2016, 12:17:18 AM
Death Knight (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5841) - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
The campaign has no Positive/Negative Energy Plane, it's split into a bunch of different Elven-ruled planes.

I think you should murder and reanimate them all to restore the Negative Energy Plane to it's rightful place.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Garryl on May 07, 2016, 03:03:16 AM
Huh, I forgot that I'd expressed interest in this game the first time around, too. I'm going to have to think about my original idea, too (anthropomorphic bat thaumaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?86550-Thaumaturge-Base-Class) with a goal of cataloguing the sounds of magic).
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 07, 2016, 08:19:43 AM
So, I've mostly ironed out the PC/Cohort, with a couple questions. First off, should the cohort be a different race than human? Main ones in mind are Dwarf and Warforged. Second one is where to go with feats, since I've got a fair pile and haven't taken any yet. General thoughts are Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip for the PC (that leaves one feat slot still open), and Combat Expertise and Improved Trip for the cohort if human.

Last bit is the commander auras - since they'll be affecting the whole party, figure the rest of you should get a say. 3 are available currently. Was personally leaning towards Toughness, Vigor, and either Attack or Transfer of Power.

(click to show/hide)

Current plan is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: FireInTheSky on May 07, 2016, 11:39:49 AM
Huh, I forgot that I'd expressed interest in this game the first time around, too. I'm going to have to think about my original idea, too (anthropomorphic bat thaumaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?86550-Thaumaturge-Base-Class) with a goal of cataloguing the sounds of magic).

Sound Shaper (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=12466.0) :D
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 07, 2016, 08:05:16 PM
Spells (armored 22% asf: 0th Mage Hand, Least Wish (aka prestidigitation); 1st Cheat, Scholar's Touch; 2nd Heroics, Mirror Move.

Could you give more details on the 'Marker' feats? You said wizard-like casting, but neither wizards nor spellthieves get second level spells at level 2.

I can understand that, which is also why I referenced Milo.

Red Mage from 8bit comic is essentially what you're talking about. So wrapped up in the meta he doesn't pay attention to what's happening in front of him. HP&Nd20'stake on things is much more milder, more like the observation on some of the rules of reality such as normally casting a spell every six seconds, or that special people come along and change things, or the law of reality are actually subjective thinks to the over deity DM favoring spectacular stories and will step in if the rules of reality are abused.
It's generally my view that the rules like rounds being six seconds exactly are abstractions for the sake of making a playable game, and not actually true in-setting. That doesn't mean you can't play a character that's aware of them, of course, it'd just mean that from the perspective of anyone else in the setting, he's crazy, even though we as players know that he's right, in a way.

Also, I'm going to name one of the first heroes after Milo, now that I think of it. 




Character ideas (In no particular order):

Gambler (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=7185.0) - Social/skill/Chrisma based martial adept
Death Knight (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5841) - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
Elemental Adept (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=851.msg5267#msg5267) - Pew pew.  Uses a new casting system (spellshaping, like spells combined with maneuvers).
I have a slight preference for Gambler or Death Knight over Elemental Adept for reasons of plot hook compatibility.  Any choice you make is good, though.

Death Knight (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5841) - To paraphrase Garryl, it's like a martial adept version of the Dread Necromancer
The campaign has no Positive/Negative Energy Plane, it's split into a bunch of different Elven-ruled planes.
I'm not sure where you're getting 'elven-ruled'. The negative planes are mostly uninhabited except by creatures unharmed by negative energy or storing enough to ignore; this does not include most humanoids. There isn't really any one group that rules the negative planes, though if anyone could be said to, it would be the Queen of Air and Darkness,



So, I've mostly ironed out the PC/Cohort, with a couple questions. First off, should the cohort be a different race than human? Main ones in mind are Dwarf and Warforged. Second one is where to go with feats, since I've got a fair pile and haven't taken any yet. General thoughts are Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Improved Trip for the PC (that leaves one feat slot still open), and Combat Expertise and Improved Trip for the cohort if human.

Last bit is the commander auras - since they'll be affecting the whole party, figure the rest of you should get a say. 3 are available currently. Was personally leaning towards Toughness, Vigor, and either Attack or Transfer of Power.

(click to show/hide)

Current plan is as follows:
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Looks fine. Feat-wise, maybe martial study? Devoted Spirit or White Raven could fit the character, though I suppose the way IL works may incentivize holding off for a few levels.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 07, 2016, 08:52:36 PM
I thought about it, but the cohort gets manoeuvres for free, as it were. Might have Bob grab the White Raven feats instead of Tr'Bon.

Still not sure about that last one. I'll have to raid a few more handbooks.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 07, 2016, 09:58:46 PM
Could you give more details on the 'Marker' feats? You said wizard-like casting, but neither wizards nor spellthieves get second level spells at level 2.
Oh, yeah I suppose it's a little misleading. I'm supposed to prepick all the spells when the Feat is taken but I doubt the game last long enough to gain three levels to worry about charting beyond the 2nd level so that's all the further I went. But what I can cast is still only up to the 1st level. Through I think I did use Heroics as an example of repeating via Juggle the Numbers which probably didn't help, eh all well.

And yes I see the six seconds / one attack thing as abstracts, normally, but I'm going a different direction with flavor. And on the Elves.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 08, 2016, 12:04:55 AM
I can go with Gambler or Death Knight, either way I'm melee focused and that helps others who might be on the fence about their role.

What's the Cosmological view of Negative Energy and Undead?  Still the default of Evil?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Garryl on May 08, 2016, 12:40:13 AM
Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Dr_emperor on May 08, 2016, 09:15:59 AM
So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 08, 2016, 12:17:20 PM
Elves, Fey, what's the difference? Murder them all.
They're not particularly related, but if you want to murder planes, feel free to try anyway.

What's the Cosmological view of Negative Energy and Undead?  Still the default of Evil?
  Negative energy and undead aren't inherently evil, but if a spell is tagged as [Evil] or a creature's alignment given as 'always evil' in the rulebooks, that's still true. Thus, most of the common spells that use negative energy are Evil, as are most common types of undead, as are most necromancers. This is mostly because, although negative energy isn't evil, the deities who've laid claim to it are.

Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?
The Ways were a casualty of revision; the Maze now connects both the positive and negative planes, and is counted among both.

So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon

Masked Moon is of more than standard power for a martial discipline; maybe replacing Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw for a swordsage?

Using Obscured Existence as a non-warlock seems questionable. Could you tell me a bit more about what you're aiming for with that?

Spirit Sense is allowed.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 08, 2016, 12:22:54 PM
Okay, I'll wait to see how party alignment pans out before choosing between my two options.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Garryl on May 08, 2016, 12:26:25 PM
Speaking of cosmology, you have The Maze listed under both positive and negative planes. Was the positive one supposed to be The Ways, instead?
The Ways were a casualty of revision; the Maze now connects both the positive and negative planes, and is counted among both.

You still list The Ways as the home of the Seelie Fey court, so you might want to update that as well. Are both courts supposed to rule parts of The Maze, or something?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 08, 2016, 05:59:58 PM
Yeah, it's a two-layered plane, half positive and half negative. I'll add more about the negative-aligned planes to the world thread today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Dr_emperor on May 08, 2016, 09:45:41 PM

So thinking about building a character for this.  Part of me wants to use spirit sense from Heroes of Horror to talk to dead people.  I was considering swordsage with homebrewed disciplines, but it keeps leading to some problems due to needing wisdom to have time to talk to people and then charisma to get them to communicate.  I think I found a solution though so.  If I can get some disciplines ok'd

Obscured Existence -warlock
https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Obscured_Existence_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29

Masked moon.
http://age-of-warriors.appspot.com/school?school=Masked%20Moon

Masked Moon is of more than standard power for a martial discipline; maybe replacing Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw for a swordsage?

Using Obscured Existence as a non-warlock seems questionable. Could you tell me a bit more about what you're aiming for with that?

Spirit Sense is allowed.

 The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers.  I do understand. I was kind of looking to switch out most of the swordsage disciplines.  In the end I want one ranged discipline (still looking), masked moon, and a debilitating discipline which obscured existence worked for, but there are other ways to improve an intimidate score.  Everything else would be gravy.

Also agree on the trade for Masked Moon.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 08, 2016, 11:20:03 PM
The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers
fyi, Warlocks are far from MAD. Every caster needs Int/Wis/Cha for casting, Dex for Rays/AC/Initiative, and Con for HP (unless going undead). However a Warlock can ditch the offensive need for Dexterity by using Eldritch Glaive and over half his Invocations don't even have a Save DC nor does he gain any Bonus Spells making his Charisma pretty tankable. Hell, with a Desecrate Corpsecrafter Necromancer led Necropoliton ritual you can ditch Constitution and use a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item[persist] on a Minor Schema of Devil's Ego to enable using Hellfire and land a +4 profane bonus to Charisma. I guess what I'm saying here is a Warlock is probably the second least MAD casters in the game, the only thing better than it is the DFA because everything worthwhile runs off it's Constitution.

Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place. I might go Warblade using custom Disciplines too. I can drop Marker Mayhem for Weapon Finesse (which gives dex-to-dmg) and 900gp is one hell of a terrible limit to mange arrows too so Ammo Written in Pencil would make a better 3rd level Feat than 1st, so maybe Point Blank Shot. A quick poke for some ranged Disciplines and I came up with this.
Any recommendations?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on May 09, 2016, 07:07:02 AM
Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place.

Eh, I'm just planning on using White Raven, and otherwise sticking fairly close to ToB.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Dr_emperor on May 09, 2016, 10:04:22 AM
Soro of those disciplines; Iron reign and Blood sage were the only ones that warblades could use, according to there text.  Swarming hornet is intended to be used with a homebrew class The hunter though it does have another discipline Striking eagle
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 09, 2016, 11:56:15 AM
Soro of those disciplines; Iron reign and Blood sage were the only ones that warblades could use, according to there text.
I'd like to introduce a new Discipline called Swarming Bees. It's mechanically similar to Swarming Hornet but the flavor is more mundane based.  :rolleyes

Asking a DM to allow things to me is synonymous with asking for tweaks. Strictly reading stuff means to need to have faith that the writer wrote mechanically comparable content. Like maybe they wrote Warblade mechanics, flavored it to be holy for the Crusader, intended it for the Swordsage, claimed it replaces Diamond Mind because archers focus on stuff, their 1st level Maneuver deals 1d6*IL, and they can dump one Spell Slot into it to cast the same Spell five times in a row (don't laugh, there is homebrew that does that).

If I wanted to break things, I don't need homebrew to do that. I just want to merge campaign-spells onto an archer and be comparable with the rest of the party. In theory the marker feats pretty much take care of one half of that.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 09, 2016, 03:39:42 PM
The idea is for a minor fey with multiple magic abilities.  Warlock as maneuvers also fixed the MAD by giving bonuses to the face skills and it fit feylike powers.  I do understand. I was kind of looking to switch out most of the swordsage disciplines.  In the end I want one ranged discipline (still looking), masked moon, and a debilitating discipline which obscured existence worked for, but there are other ways to improve an intimidate score.  Everything else would be gravy.

Also agree on the trade for Masked Moon.
I'm a fan of Witch Razor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?102869-Witch-Razor-Discipline) for warlock-esque debuffs. I'll waive the feat tax if you choose it during character creation, though it still replaces Desert Wind. There's also  Star Dream (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?169100-The-Star-Dream-the-Martial-Maneuvers-of-the-Fey-%28ToB-PEACH%29), which has one or two maneuvers I'd prefer to avoid, but looks reasonable overall, and particularly relevant.



Hell, with a Desecrate Corpsecrafter Necromancer led Necropoliton ritual you can ditch Constitution and use a Minor Schema of Metamagic Item[persist] on a Minor Schema of Devil's Ego to enable using Hellfire and land a +4 profane bonus to Charisma.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't, though. :P

Anyway, everyone seems like they are going for homebrew Maneuvers which makes me a little out of place. I might go Warblade using custom Disciplines too. I can drop Marker Mayhem for Weapon Finesse (which gives dex-to-dmg) and 900gp is one hell of a terrible limit to mange arrows too so Ammo Written in Pencil would make a better 3rd level Feat than 1st, so maybe Point Blank Shot. A quick poke for some ranged Disciplines and I came up with this.
  • Falling Star (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=10640971&postcount=7)
  • Iron Rain (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?145803-Iron-Rain-ToB-saturation-archery&p=8103297#post8103297)
  • Mystic Rain (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Mystical_Rain_%283.5e_Martial_Discipline%29)
  • Solar Wind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?193295-3-5-PF-Solar-Wind-an-archer-thrown-weapon-discipline-LoB-ToB-Discipline)
  • Swarming Hornet (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=8364963&postcount=3)
  • Vile Shaft (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14367412&postcount=429)
  • Blood Sage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?135459-Blood-Sage-ToB-Discipline-PEACH-%28All-Maneuvers-Up!%29) (technically melee based, but liking the theme of debilitating pin point shots, is a ranged adaption possible?)
Any recommendations?
I'll allow Falling Star as a warblade discipline, replacing Diamond Mind or Iron Heart. Swarming Hornet likewise, replacing Diamond Mind or White Raven. I'm disinclined toward Vile Shaft and Solar Wind. I'll get back to you on the rest, probably tonight.



Bear in mind that during character creation, I'm mostly assuming your backstory covers where you learned any feat or discipline or whatever; if you want homebrew or unusual sourcebooks on level-up, you'll likely have to earn it in-game - find a scroll or a master of the discipline or  appease the Destiny Manipulator or whatever. If you've taken levels in a class or martial discipline already you can continue to advance in it, of course.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 09, 2016, 06:47:58 PM
I'm sometimes willing to make exceptions, as you've seen, but what classes a discipline is meant for is definitely a consideration; for example I'd allow Solar Wind in the game, but I don't see it as suited enough to warblades to go against what it's creator said.

Anyway. Iron Rain is allowed, though I'd disprefer it to the other options, all else being equal. Mystical Rain likewise, replacing Tiger Claw, but Water Blessing stance is now second level.

Regarding Blood Sage: I'd generally be pretty open to adapting a discipline to ranged weapons, but Blood Sage is not just melee focused but limited to a specific class of weapons (light piercing or slashing), which makes me a bit more reluctant. How about...

Point Blank Precision [Fighter]
Prerequisites: IL 2, Dex 13
You can treat a ranged attack against an opponent within 10 feet of you as a melee attack for the purposes of martial maneuvers, although you take a -4 penalty on attack rolls if the opponent is not adjacent to you. Point Blank Precision can be used in place of Point Blank Shot to qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other special ability.

And at a later level I can write up a style feat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?168817-3-5-Martial-Discipline-Style-Feats) based on Blood Sage and Falling Star that allows longer ranges.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 09, 2016, 11:49:27 PM
I'd appreciate it if you didn't, though. :P
0:)

The Feat is probably fine through a little murderous. Because in order to dodge that -4 penalty I have to let my target attack me, ranged weapons provoke AoOs. But I think pretty much all those Disciplines offer a Stance to negate that. Also fyi bolts count as daggers when improvised in melee, I just happen to be shooting them. And it's that kind of logic is where I'm going anyway  :cool

And to be fair on Solar Wind and such I really didn't look to much at the Disciplines (well, I've known about blood sage for a while).
Any recommendations?
Was me literately asking for recommendations on which ones were decent. :P
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Garryl on May 10, 2016, 01:36:58 AM
Huh, I forgot that I'd expressed interest in this game the first time around, too. I'm going to have to think about my original idea, too (anthropomorphic bat thaumaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?86550-Thaumaturge-Base-Class) with a goal of cataloguing the sounds of magic).

Quill, is this okay? I know you okayed it for the original application, but I'd like to double check, being 2 years later and all that.

Assuming everything is still good, I'm trying to pick things.
- Ability scores: 6 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 22 Wis, 6 Cha.
- Skills: Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, Listen, and Spot. Spellcraft is +10 so I can take 10 on the DC 20 check to cast my cantrips at will out of combat. With 22 Wisdom and the +4 racial bonus, Spot/Listen are at +15, which seems pretty darn good for 2nd level.
- Feats: Improved Flight (from RotW) gets me to good maneuverability, which means hovering, among other benefits. I haven't a clue what to do with the two extra feats from flaws, though. Spell Focus (Conjuration), maybe, but there have got to be better choices. Any ideas?
- Flaws: I could go with Noncombatant (-2 on melee attack rolls) and Shaky (-2 on ranged attack rolls), since I'm not planning to ever attack, nor would I really do anything if I tried, but I feel a little dirty taking them since they're basically non-penalties for me.
- Traits: Nightsighted (+10 ft. darkvision, -1 Spot in areas of bright light) is interesting, and Passionate (+1 Fort, -1 Will) shores up a weak save in exchange for a very strong save.
- Equipment: A light crossbow is a gimme, even if it's close to useless with a +3 attack bonus (+1 if I go with Shaky) for 1d6 damage. That covers 35 gp of the 900 gp we have to spend. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: littha on May 10, 2016, 04:59:44 AM
Assuming there is still some space I would love to join. Not been in a PbP for a long time and I am really beginning to miss it.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 10, 2016, 11:59:06 AM
Any recommendations?
Was me literately asking for recommendations on which ones were decent. :P
At a glance, Falling Star and Blood Sage look the most carefully written, though I don't know any of them very well. Falling Star has better BFC than Swarming Hornet, but doesn't give extra attacks - a good trade under most circumstances, though extra attacks might compliment Ammo Writ in Pencil better.

Blood Sage has a fair number of boosts and counters that don't rely on melee attacks, actually, and I quite like the idea of a style combining it with a ranged discipline, so I guess I'd recommend Falling Star, Blood Sage, Stone Dragon, and two of (Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, White Raven), or one and Swarming Hornet. Probably keep DM for the counters, WR might be better for you than IH but there's already a party member using it.

Huh, I forgot that I'd expressed interest in this game the first time around, too. I'm going to have to think about my original idea, too (anthropomorphic bat thaumaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?86550-Thaumaturge-Base-Class) with a goal of cataloguing the sounds of magic).

Quill, is this okay? I know you okayed it for the original application, but I'd like to double check, being 2 years later and all that.

Assuming everything is still good, I'm trying to pick things.
- Ability scores: 6 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 22 Wis, 6 Cha.
- Skills: Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, Listen, and Spot. Spellcraft is +10 so I can take 10 on the DC 20 check to cast my cantrips at will out of combat. With 22 Wisdom and the +4 racial bonus, Spot/Listen are at +15, which seems pretty darn good for 2nd level.
- Feats: Improved Flight (from RotW) gets me to good maneuverability, which means hovering, among other benefits. I haven't a clue what to do with the two extra feats from flaws, though. Spell Focus (Conjuration), maybe, but there have got to be better choices. Any ideas?
- Flaws: I could go with Noncombatant (-2 on melee attack rolls) and Shaky (-2 on ranged attack rolls), since I'm not planning to ever attack, nor would I really do anything if I tried, but I feel a little dirty taking them since they're basically non-penalties for me.
- Traits: Nightsighted (+10 ft. darkvision, -1 Spot in areas of bright light) is interesting, and Passionate (+1 Fort, -1 Will) shores up a weak save in exchange for a very strong save.
- Equipment: A light crossbow is a gimme, even if it's close to useless with a +3 attack bonus (+1 if I go with Shaky) for 1d6 damage. That covers 35 gp of the 900 gp we have to spend. Any ideas?
Looks okay.

Assuming there is still some space I would love to join. Not been in a PbP for a long time and I am really beginning to miss it.
Nice to have you (back)! Six players is fine, I think, though that's about my limit now. Do you have a character in mind?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: littha on May 10, 2016, 06:02:58 PM
Assuming there is still some space I would love to join. Not been in a PbP for a long time and I am really beginning to miss it.
Nice to have you (back)! Six players is fine, I think, though that's about my limit now. Do you have a character in mind?

Depends how weird you want to go.
Been wanting to test my Deathjack (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5498.0) for a while now but I can do a spectrum between that and a basic fighter.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on May 10, 2016, 06:27:02 PM
If littha is playing a Deathjack I'm playing the Death Knight (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=5841.0).  I won't be able to help myself!
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 10, 2016, 09:10:18 PM
Weird is good. This is the game that had a baby spelljammer and a guy with a crab claw graft last time.

(I probably don't need to mention it, but the standard rule for evil and destructive characters does apply: they have to be restrained enough to work with the party.) I don't know anything about Deathjacks other than what's in your monster class thread, but it doesn't make mention of them doing much other than killing and destroying, so you might give some thought to, and tell me a bit about, how one would fit into a party/adventure/campaign.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: littha on May 10, 2016, 09:37:47 PM
The deathjack is generally a force for destruction but evil doesn't mean stupid. Just because you could level an orphanage doesn't mean its a great idea to do so.

Make no mistake, the characters final goal is just to go on an endless bloodbath. The best way to go about that is to become more powerful and for the deathjack that is by consuming souls, the safest way of doing so without attracting unwanted attention is with a group of adventurers.

Basically:
Adventurers kill things > Deathjack eats souls > Deathjack becomes more powerful > eventually (level 20?) its strong enough to actually go about and harvest all the souls it needs without the subterfuge.

In essence, I doubt the character could ever actually become strong enough to start randomly slaughtering people in a PbP game starting at level 2.

Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Dr_emperor on May 11, 2016, 09:31:35 AM
So I'll just file this goblins neutral good to chaotic neutral or evil here.  He was getting changed anyway to CN.  Quillwraith I also asked if I could pick up a ranged discipline.  Would you be ok with any of the disciplines that SorO posted for my character.  That will be my last discipline question all that is left to do is spend (2 point buy points), choose one skill, pick up a few manuevers and buy stuff (2 masterwork weapons and some food rope and tools?).

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=802752
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on May 11, 2016, 11:05:50 AM
Make no mistake, the characters final goal is just to go on an endless bloodbath. The best way to go about that is to become more powerful and for the deathjack that is by consuming souls, the safest way of doing so without attracting unwanted attention is with a group of adventurers.
Fair enough; just thought I should make sure.

So I'll just file this goblins neutral good to chaotic neutral or evil here.  He was getting changed anyway to CN.  Quillwraith I also asked if I could pick up a ranged discipline.  Would you be ok with any of the disciplines that SorO posted for my character.  That will be my last discipline question all that is left to do is spend (2 point buy points), choose one skill, pick up a few manuevers and buy stuff (2 masterwork weapons and some food rope and tools?).

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=802752
HD are maximised at first level, IIRC, so you should have 14 HP. The rest of it looks okay.

I missed your question about ranged disciplines, sorry. As a swordsage, you don't get Falling Star or Swarming Hornet, but you can trade a discipline for Solar Wind. (It says it replaces Tiger Claw, but I'm ok with you trading Setting Sun or Desert Wind instead.)




If we have a full set of players and character concepts, perhaps it's time to move to the subforum. OOC thread. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=17279.0)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: littha on May 11, 2016, 03:14:09 PM
How do you want Point buy stat generation to work with Non-abilities (Con in this case)
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: SorO_Lost on May 11, 2016, 04:06:52 PM
Why would you go an ask that Littha?
Everyone knows you start with 8s in those ;) :p
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: geniussavant on May 27, 2016, 12:49:16 PM
If room opens up, I'd be interested in playing. Just let me know.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on July 08, 2016, 09:00:34 AM
If room opens up, I'd be interested in playing. Just let me know.
It turns out Dr_emperor isn't joining, so if you're still interested, there's room. We've started the campaign already, but it shouldn't be hard to join partway in once you're ready.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on July 08, 2016, 09:21:08 AM
If room opens up, I'd be interested in playing. Just let me know.

You're just following me to every game, aren't you? :P
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: geniussavant on July 08, 2016, 01:13:04 PM
Haha maybe... Wasn't my intention, but it sure looks that way doesn't it?
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on July 08, 2016, 01:27:22 PM
Haha maybe... Wasn't my intention, but it sure looks that way doesn't it?

You wouldn't be the current leader there, actually. That's Phae. He's currently a PC in 3 campaigns I DM and a PC in the party with me in RHoD. Must be a masochist.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on July 08, 2016, 01:54:03 PM
What about me? :P
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Stratovarius on July 08, 2016, 02:00:36 PM
What about me? :P

For some reason, I forgot you were in Whispers of War. How the hell I forgot that, since you edit every word I type on these boards, I shall never know. :banghead

So, yes, Nanshork is also a PC in 3 campaigns I DM (the same three, actually), and also in a party with me (Souls). Even more of a masochist, since he does actually edit everything I write on these boards.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on July 08, 2016, 02:50:27 PM
What about me? :P

For some reason, I forgot you were in Whispers of War. How the hell I forgot that, since you edit every word I type on these boards, I shall never know. :banghead

So, yes, Nanshork is also a PC in 3 campaigns I DM (the same three, actually), and also in a party with me (Souls). Even more of a masochist, since he does actually edit almost everything I write on these boards.

Fixed that for you.   :smirk
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Quillwraith on July 09, 2016, 10:08:40 AM
What about me? :P

For some reason, I forgot you were in Whispers of War. How the hell I forgot that, since you edit almost every  word I type on these boards, I shall never know. :banghead

So, yes, Nanshork is also a PC in 3 campaigns I DM (the same three, actually), and also in a party with me (Souls). Even more of a masochist, since he does actually edit almost everything I write on these boards.

Fixed that for you.   :smirk
You didn't fix it right.
Title: Re: Souls Reborn
Post by: Nanshork on July 09, 2016, 12:50:33 PM
What about me? :P

For some reason, I forgot you were in Whispers of War. How the hell I forgot that, since you edit almost every  word I type on these boards, I shall never know. :banghead

So, yes, Nanshork is also a PC in 3 campaigns I DM (the same three, actually), and also in a party with me (Souls). Even more of a masochist, since he does actually edit almost everything I write on these boards.

Fixed that for you.   :smirk
You didn't fix it right.

That was the joke.   :P