Author Topic: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )  (Read 14323 times)

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
« on: October 23, 2016, 03:23:52 PM »
edit ---- retitled, with more previews.


ninja'd Wilb ... didn't know my kitty avatar could do that so early in the morning  :eh

Product link
http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/volos-guide-to-monsters


Firbolg link (also on the one above)
http://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/Volo_Firbolg107.pdf

Just a smidgen of powercreep.  Wis +2, Str +1.
Short Rest Detect Magic, ~Disguise are o.k.
but the sub-Invisible, will get lots of use.
SoBaL is right up Druid's alley.
Q1 ... I'm wondering if a Wisdom based Monk could work ?
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 05:49:08 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 01:02:15 AM »
I don't quite see the power creep other than it being the first +2 Wisdom race, not counting Variant Human taking a +1 Wisdom feat.  What build would want to use that race that wouldn't benefit more from a different race?  Hidden Step won't get a ton of use since it's once a short rest.  It's a nice ambush tool but I'm hard-pressed to come up with an ambushing build that doesn't already have similar tools built into it.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2016, 01:09:52 AM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 11:00:43 AM »
Damnit! Your kitty distracted my giant eye and I've let this happen!!!

Well, Volo's seems to bring something interesting to the table, and the other previews showing "more of the same" to us old timers, with ceremorphosis, neothelids, alhoons and beholderkin.

But this Firbolg is a travesty! Voadkyn + Volodni much to the freaks at WotC? They are grotesque and their lore is like "Svirfneblin but furrier, fey-er and larger" and no names as well, and throw utter devotion to nature, to give it an elfin touch....
Lovely Zoma...

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 04:40:30 PM »
hmm
 
I'm thinking the 3 short rest level ~1s,
compare well to the Magical Training feat.
Hidden Step is > any Hide action.


Zendikar has Elves and 1 Merfolk , with +2 Wis.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 05:22:30 PM »
Since racials carry over to WS as a druid unless they're specifically overridden by it, it does give you a bit of leeway from the item-pinata effect when dropping down to weaker/smaller forms. And some pretty silly carrying capacities in larger forms too.

Get yourself an enlarge spell cast on you, and you can pretend that you're the giant eagle from Golden Axe, carrying small armies around on your back while cruising to your destination.


There's a few things that might be useful with Hidden Step as well. Mostly things that are "Use an Item", but aren't an attack persay. Be prepared to Rules Lawyer your way through a debate of who caused the saving throw the creature had to take. You, the creature itself, or the caltrops/ball bearing/flaming oil they're now in :)

It's a good skill anyway, but there seems to be quite a bit of jiggle room available in the wording for certain situations and spells.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 06:44:26 PM by sambojin »

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2016, 10:13:06 AM »
Zendikar has Elves and 1 Merfolk , with +2 Wis.
http://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/magic/Plane%20Shift%20Zendikar.pdf

I forgot about those since I haven't seen them mentioned much since a month or so after that Planeshift came out.

I haven't seen anyone use those in optimization outside of the original topic here.  The Kor's Lucky feature would be enough to make me consider them for any wisdom class even though they only get +1.  The probability protection has to outweigh the boost to an ability score with an upper limit in the long run, especially since the non-ranger wisdom classes tend to have low feat requirements.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 12:14:37 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 04:19:48 PM »
No right, there's been almost no chatter.
Some of those are re-named core things,
which blurs the distinctions that much more.

ENWorld ~didn't and then they got hacked so search gets zero.
Giantitp I've searched to naught, perhaps an insider knows.
reddit I don't search well.
rpgnet I haven't bothered in a long time.

All of the possible search terms, skew toward any
of the other possibilities, like M:tG or other D&D.
I mean "plane shift" is way too noisy and diverse.
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 06:40:33 PM »
Wis based characters also have a pretty low Wisdom requirement too (on top of low feat requirements). It gives you a bigger prepared spell variety more-so than outright attack power, due to many useful spells not being damaging.

You can get by with 13Wis quite handily on druids and clerics if you want to, making +1-2Wis either way better or way worse, depending on how you look at it. More is better, of course, but it can almost be considered a dump stat in some builds.


5% Kor rerolls aren't amazing, but it does save from whiffing in vital situations, especially with advantage creating or +d4 spells going for you. I'm probably more favourable to the free skills than the reroll-1's, although it's actually quite good as a built in, always-on ability. But athletics and acrobatics usually come into play regularly enough that having them allows for some weird skill builds with almost any class, regardless of training opportunities (or lack thereof).


For the monk question, sure, why not? Free Wis is free armour, which is always nice. AniMonk (monk or druid heavy) is always a good thing, especially with +2Wis and higher carrying capacity. Why be a bear, when you can be a big punchy bear?


Disguise Self "should" kind-of carry over if precast too. I'm wondering how far you could take the "same basic arrangement of limbs" factor in a WS form. Can you look like a human while in WS bear-form? Apes definitely have the same basic arrangement of limbs as a humanoid, but does a bear/dog/crocodile/horse? At least you can look like a nine foot tall monk when you want to, one that's only medium sized. But can you be an itty-bitty Shetland warhorse, or a cute little face savaging "teddy" bear? When or what from does the spell effect kick in? Can you say "Three foot shorter, that is all" to make smaller looking wildshapes, or would you look like a short Firbolg/humanoid that's actually a bear in disguise when you WS (which is probably far more useful)? I'm pretty sure you'd look like a Firbolg/whatever-humanoid-you-chose (illusion is set at time of casting), but would WS fizzle the spell if the "same basic arrangement of limbs" clause wasn't met any longer? Is four limbs and one head enough, or are hands and feet different, and do front hooves/claws/paws count as feet, or can they be hands? Bears *can* walk on two legs a bit naturally, but crocodiles, dogs and horses aren't renowned for it without extensive training, even if their front and back "legs" are quite different in form and use from each other, as different as our human "arms" and "legs" are.

Bipedal vs quadrupedal, or four limbs = ok? And are bears at least occasionally bipedal?



Another weird side effect from Firbolgs and moon druid WS: everything you carry can be merged into your form (but not necessarily used). You've got large and bigger forms, and a +1 size modifier. Guess who's carrying the Paladin's horse into the meeting, all secret like? Or you can do Ultima 6 Dupre duty, where you carry the boat/skiff for the party at all times, on the off-chance you want to go fishing at some point. I have no idea where "equipment" and "things carried" stop being one another from a player's perspective. There's plenty of stuff you carry in most games, that is equipment, that don't have anything to do with "magical item slots" or anything like that. It's just stuff you carry, in case you need it, thus equipment, thus merge-able into WS. Could you merge a familiar that normally sits in your top pocket? Because if the answer is yes, you can damn well merge in a pally's gee-gee too. And if it's a "living stuff=no, objects=yes" thing, it's still good. Probably not as exploitable, but still good. It might be druidic bears all the way down otherwise.....

There's little to no limit to the random and huge shit you can merge into a WS form either, so you may be carrying a small siege engine or supply cart for all they know, which are "equipment", as long as you could lift it in the first place. Which you often can with +1Str and a size modifier, after a few tries. At worst, WS into something big and strong, lift it, WS into the same form again and merge it. All your stowage problems are now sorted....

Item pinatas are funnier when they hit you for the last of your WS HP and an entire alchemist's lab pops out.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 09:32:07 PM by sambojin »

Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 09:59:53 PM »
Quote
5% Kor rerolls aren't amazing, but it does save from whiffing in vital situations, especially with advantage creating or +d4 spells going for you. I'm probably more favourable to the free skills than the reroll-1's, although it's actually quite good as a built in, always-on ability. But athletics and acrobatics usually come into play regularly enough that having them allows for some weird skill builds with almost any class, regardless of training opportunities (or lack thereof).

The old board had a detailed and long thread about how probability would catch up to you eventually as a PC and how higher tier options had ways to negate or avoid those situations.  If you play a year+ campaign, the Lucky racial is likely to turn a loss into a win at least a couple times.  You're turning the chance of a natural 1 from 1/20 to 1/400.
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Offline sambojin

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 12:25:58 AM »
True. And, as said, you've got advantage providing spells available as a druid, turning rolling a 1 (or triple 1) into a truly negligible 1/8000'ish chance. Enhance Ability and Faerie Fire turn it into virtually zero whiffs for skills/saves or attacks respectively at that point. Well, even less than normal, over the course of a year long campaign (ie: it probably won't happen twice).

Halfling lucky with advantage, right when you need it most :)

Kors ain't bad. It doesn't help on all the twos and stuff that fail miserably, but you won't roll many ones, which helps a bit. Advantage is better (or double competency, or even +d4 on-call cantrips/spells for "average'ish" rolls required), but never rolling ones is good. And Kors almost never do, for FREE!

But the twos and threes will kill you just as dead as the ones do, with the exact same probability of rolling them initially.


Give me Bless or Guidance or Resistance or Faerie Fire or Enhance Ability any day of the week. Even as a Kor. I'm tempted to say that +2Wis, +1 strength, +1 size-carry, mini-invis, and Disguise Self/short rest is "more powerful" than re-rolling ones, even as a non-Wis class. You can do a lot in-game with pseudo-stealth and magic-vision. With any class (even non-druid "ask your DM dude, that's the answer" classes for Disguise Self).

Thus why I like the Kor's inherently useful skill-set too, on top of whiff removal.

I wouldn't really call either Kors or Firbolgs power-creep, because they gave us Aarakocra's straight off the bat, intended to be exactly as they are. Firbolgs and Kors are interesting and useful, but there's nothing inherently "bad" about either race for most campaigns, early or late. Good, but not busted or broken.



"Oh, look! Just kidding, you can't. I'm now an invisible bear that looks like a human that knows where all you expensive stuff is..... And now I'm riding a horse......"
Be the Firbolg your DM wants you to be.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 02:56:44 AM by sambojin »

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2016, 04:31:28 PM »
I'm picturing Wee Man bull+ball fighting "Oh it's just a baby bull".
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DmzTBvntJFE/maxresdefault.jpg

Reroll 1s is +9.5 / 20 = ~+0.5 , as a basic bonus, but
yeah the real power is in the get-out-of-jail-free part.

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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2016, 02:21:53 PM »
The full PC race list is out:

Aasimar (3 subraces)
Bugbear
Firbolg
Goblin
Goliath (reprint)
Hobgoblin
Kenku
Kobold
Lizardfolk
Orc
Tabaxi
Triton
Yuan-Ti Pureblood

The leaker is unfortunately not willing to post full stat blocks but the pictures floating around look believable.
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2016, 05:06:52 PM »
 :plot
1st impression is it'll be a lot of usable material.

edit --- This ENWorld poster says it was on 5e Facebook
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?488493-Player-Races-in-Upcoming-Volo-s-Guide-to-Monsters/page23&p=6933093&viewfull=1#post6933093


Aasimar ... DMG p. 286 has the basics, but the VGtM
details are ++ the srd's shortened racial summaries.
Seeing as how the base has already been hashed,
I presume these'll get lots of use.

Bugbear MM is in the SRD.  4e did a bit with these guys.

Firbolg ... previous topic in this thread.

Goliath ... TenJ noted

Goblin ... most of it is on DMG p. 282
Hobgoblin ... as are the rest of these
Kenku
Kobold
Lizarfolk
Orc

Triton might be a Merfolk variant, might not.

Yuan-ti ... is in the MM but not the SRD.  3e had some racial stats.

Tabaxi ... huh?  New and News to me.  Googles.
Well idk how many times I looked through my old 1e
Fiend Folio but these dudes didn't stick even once.
And lord knows, I'm attracted to Cat Girls.
 :???

**

Gnolls too, background for Lizardfolk
http://kotaku.com/an-early-look-at-d-d-s-newest-monster-bible-1788410991

more Monstery stuff
http://io9.gizmodo.com/an-inside-look-at-the-creepy-creatures-of-dungeons-dr-1788412425
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 05:15:56 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2016, 07:50:14 PM »
Starting to see some stuff floating around for stats

Bugbear:
(click to show/hide)

Goblin:
(click to show/hide)

Hobgoblin:
(click to show/hide)

Kobold:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 03:33:31 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2016, 02:33:34 PM »
Aasimar:
(click to show/hide)

Kenku:
(click to show/hide)

Lizardfolk:
(click to show/hide)

Tabaxi:
(click to show/hide)

Triton:
(click to show/hide)

Orc:
(click to show/hide)

Yuan-Ti Pureblood:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 03:16:41 AM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Monsters book, and Firbolg
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2016, 03:19:30 PM »
So that's everything that wasn't a reprint or already revealed in an official preview.

Aasimar are mini-paladins much like half-orcs are mini-barbarians.  They all look like solid choices for anything Cha-based and paladins.  The extra damage working on attacks and spells is a nice touch so they don't too heavily favor any class moreso than their ability score bonuses dictate.

Kenku make me keep re-checking to be sure I didn't miss a racial.  The source is a picture of the page they are printed on and nothing is cut off however.

Lizardfolk have a lot of druid potential, and if you're rolling stats instead of using point buy or standard array, the natural armor is nice for a bunch of classes.

Tabaxi have some obvious absurdity with barbarian, rogue, and monk considering the interaction with multiple dashes per turn and Feline Agility.

Tritons have a nice list of stuff but nothing jumps out at me to say they would be ideal unless you're doing an aquatic campaign.

Orcs are worse than half-orcs unless you really need that limited bonus action dash.  Powerful Build is mostly a ribbon that says how much treasure you can carry around.

Yuan-ti are better tieflings than tieflings with a better saving throw racial than gnomes in place of an extra racial spell.

Bugbears have some potential for Assassin multiclass builds and barbarians.  Also a group of bugbears can line up in some interesting formations and still all hit the same target.  A 5 ft. choke point still allows 4 bugbears to stand in a straight line and hit the same target over each other's shoulders when polearms and the Battle Master reach maneuver are taken into account.  Pretty big formations of bugbears could all attack the same target without even flanking.

Goblins make pretty good monks and rangers, bringing 2/3 of Cunning Action without involving a rogue dip.  Really anything that wants Dex and Con, even as secondary stats, gets some decent survivability from picking goblin.

Hobgoblins seem like obvious wizards even though none of their lore I've ever read steers them that way.

Kobolds are amazing in dark places and have to rely on pack tactics in sunlight.  Dependent on the campaign, they could be ridiculous.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 03:33:13 PM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2016, 06:00:57 PM »
Niiiiice pile.
+ 1


Hobgoblins are very tasty Gish Wizs.
Gets rid of spell taxes Shield and Mage Armor.
RogAT too, of course and Abjure.
Oh and hey, pick Greatsword.

Fallen Aasimar ... Mass Frightened for 1 whole minute?
Surely this has a Save Ends or time limit tag to it.

Triton ...
GM :  the Dragon jumps on top of you, crushing you.
PC :  Nope.
GM :  What?
PC :   "ignore effects of deep underwater environment"
GM :  Still not seeing it.
PC :  Dragons weigh less than the Pacific Ocean.
GM :  Oh ... (thinks for a moment)
GM :  You're pinned under the Dragon and can't move, but you're otherwise quite smug about your situation.
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Offline TenaciousJ

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Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2016, 07:51:17 PM »
The Fallen Aasimar frighten is until the end of the Aasimar's next turn.  The Protector has the best transformation imo but the Scourge and Fallen have a better ability score combo to compensate.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 03:17:38 AM by TenaciousJ »
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Offline Wilb

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Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2016, 07:42:38 AM »
Wow there are some nice gems among these races...

Excelent work TenaciousJ!!!
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Re: Volo's Guide to Monsters ( Firbolg + more )
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2016, 03:51:52 PM »
Tabaxi
+2 Dex +1 Cha
60 ft. darkvision
Perception and Stealth proficiency

These strike me as the "Old School Survival Guide" to 5e , now with Cat Fluff.

**

TenJ ... have some obvious absurdity with barbarian, rogue, and monk considering the interaction with multiple dashes per turn and Feline Agility.

Feline Agility: Double your movement speed on your turn.  You can't use this again until you spend a turn moving 0 ft.
Claws: 20 ft. climb speed and you can use them to make 1d4 unarmed strikes that deal slashing instead of bludgeoning

Both of these, are simpler mechanics than the standard PHB stuff that does the same thing.
(I suppose a passive or proper Knowledge check to determine whether Bludge should switch to Slash, or vice versa)

So this part is basically "Noob's Old School Survival guide".


Perfect for new players.  :clap
And still quite use/abuse-able.
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