Author Topic: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas  (Read 5473 times)

Offline Libertad

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Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« on: May 15, 2015, 05:22:09 PM »

Taiia from Deities & Demigods

An interesting aspect of fantasy literature is the use of a creator deity.  Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings and CS Lewis’ Chronicles of Narnia series did not overtly state their world’s cosmology, but there were implications of a single god responsible for the creation and oversight of reality.  This is not a surprise as both men were very religious Christians.  Deliberate or not, it’s quite common for a writer’s personal beliefs and experiences to feature in their work.
 

There is a lot of appeal to polytheist settings, in part because multiple deities offer a lot of variety for players and thus more potential character concepts for Cleric PCs.  But in recent days I’ve wondered about ways of creating a monotheist D&D setting which does not simply replicate the Abrahamic God.  The goal of this is not to create a religion which demands only worship of one deity or who believes in one deity, but a setting cosmology where the existence of but one deity is an objective truth.  Even in settings where one entity is responsible for the creation of reality itself (Ao from Forgotten Realms or the High God of Dragonlance), such “overdeities” are often distant figures who are not worshiped.

True Monotheism vs. Monolatrism and Dualism

Many campaign settings for Dungeons & Dragons attempt to go the polytheist route, but this doesn't always feel genuine.  As mentioned in my earlier Pantheist Priest post, true polytheism is rare.  A lot of fictional religious traditions acknowledge the existence of multiple deities but clerics and mortal populations choose to honor one.  This practice is actually monolatrism, for monotheism is both the belief and worship of one deity.  There is also the case of dualism where both divinities are equally strong and divine.  While Christiantiy and Islam have a Satanic figure and enemy of God, his power and wisdom is but a fraction of the true Abrahamic deity.

In some rare cases there are deities (such as Lolth of the Forgotten Realms) who keep their followers in the dark about the existence of other gods and goddesses so that they can consolidate their power base.  This is a more accurately monotheist, but it is often a constructed lie which flies in the face of cosmological evidence in the campaign setting.  In this case, the setting is still polytheist and monotheism is objectively false.

Nature Spirits, Demonic Cults, and the Granting of Spells



Oath of Druids by Daren Bader

In some settings divine magic can come from non-godly sources.  Druids draw their power from nature itself, while demon lords and archdevils can grant spells to mortal followers despite not being true gods.  While most D&D settings have divine spells as an essential part of deity worship, in a monotheist setting this may not necessarily be the case.  Below are a list of options for one to use in a monotheist setting.

Option One, Lesser Servitors and Patrons: A monotheist deity may act through divine intermediaries such as angels and saints to commune with the faithful.  Perhaps the One God’s wisdom is too great for any mortal mind to handle, so they instill an infinitesimal fraction of their essence into numerous servants to carry to the mortal realm.

Or maybe so-called “divine” spells are merely a powerful entity sharing its gifts with another; a powerful dragon or nature spirit may be able to instill spells, but they are not gods because they can fall prey to the vices of arrogance and short-sightedness.  They are merely children of the One God, like everything else in the universe.

Option Two, Stealing the Gift: An individual’s communion with the One God results in holy gifts in the form of spells, meant only for the most virtuous of servants.  Demons, devils, and false prophets might have found a way to tap into this universal consciousness of divinity and take the spells which rightfully belong to the One God.

This is an especially vile form of spellcasting, for it allows otherwise good men and women to be tricked into following selfish and wicked folk who wield divine magic as “proof” of the One God’s favor.

Option Three, the Nature of Magic: Arcane magic is ill-described in most settings as-is.  It is an irreligious form of spellcasting which comes about via study or a supernatural entity in one's ancestral bloodline.  Christianity and Islam (I cannot say for sure about Judaism) posit magic as a negative force granted by demons, evil spirits, and the like.  One could go this route, although in this case this can be very restrictive on party dynamics if clerics and mages are expected to be mortal enemies.

The Adversary



Eye of Sauron from Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings

As a monotheistic setting requires an unorthodox reworking of the cosmology, this raises the ever-important question of the deity's status and why evil occurs.  The true god might be equivalent to a wise parental figure who seeks to guide mortal kind to greater awareness and prosperity.  In many cultures the presence of evil is caused by a fallen figure, a malevolent force which seeks to lead the righteous away from the oneness of God.

Or perhaps the deity is entirely beyond morality, equivalent to a force of nature of the cosmos which simply is.  That very same deity might have multi-faceted personalities, the creator and the destroyer, bringer of harvests and plagues.  Different cultures might worship and prize different aspects as befits their circumstances.  In a way it is similar to druids who revere different aspects of nature, or religious denominations who share certain core assumptions but differ on several key issues.

Or a potential idea is that the deity is actually malevolent, a cruel tyrant who cares more for loyalty above all and will inflict a host of plagues upon nonbelievers.  This is more common in some Japanese Role-Playing Games, where the mortal priesthood is not just corrupt but the creator of the world itself is a tyrant who the heroes must destroy or seal away.  This Game Theory video has a good article on Final Fantasy's religious symbolism.  Such a campaign is the most unorthodox one, as it puts heroic PCs against the power structure of not just established religious orders but the cosmology itself.

Going for a classic fantasy trope of good vs. evil is a ready-made trope common in fantasy media as well as our own culture.  But making the leader and/or originator of evil a deity or equivalent power would make the cosmology a dualistic one instead of a monotheistic one.  If the monotheistic deity is truly good, why does she/he not vanish evil from the world?  Is the creator omnipotent and/or omniscient?  Why are mortal heroes and good-aligned outsiders relied upon as intermediaries?

As these very questions have yet to be answered in a satisfactory manner in the real world and spawned centuries of debates among philosophers and theologians, you don't need to concoct an answer in your own campaign immediately.

Monotheism for Pathfinder

The 3rd Edition book Deities & Demigods had an entry on designing a monotheist cosmology for D&D.  It also contained the sample deity Taiia, a universal entity of creation and destruction with major denominations honoring different aspects (and thus a different set of domains).  The guidelines were that a monotheist deity should have at least 20 domains, which at the time there were 22 domains total in the Player's Handbook.  In Pathfinder's Core Rulebook, that number has almost doubled to 35 domains!  This is not including the myriad new domains provided in supplements for either game.

As the vast majority of domains govern aspects of the world (artifice, fire, war, etc) with only a few specifically devoted to morality (chaos, evil, good, law), one should allow Clerics to pick 2 domains of their choice as a sufficient option.  A Cleric with Chaos and Liberation might be drawing upon the One God's teachings of overthrowing tyranny and fighting unjust social structures, while another Cleric of that same deity derives inspiration from Artifice and Fire to build great creations and temples.  Evil, Madness, and Void might be a little too macabre for a "fair and just" deity of light, but otherwise 32 domains is more than enough for most character concepts.

Further Reading

This idea has been bandied about before, so here's a list of articles and threads:

Monotheism in Fantasy RPGs

Does monotheism have a place in fantasy?

Monotheism or Polytheism?

Making Monotheism Work in Pathfinder

How would you handle a monotheistic religion?

Although it's purely in the idea stage, I'm also hard at work on writing up a sample monotheist fantasy setting.  I might explore it in future posts if this one generates enough interest.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2015, 03:19:07 PM »
Monopsychism ... is far enough from the more
loudmouthed orthodox groups, to be useful.
I've thought of it as if the 13th+ Rings of the Hinterlands
are progressively more fantastic and beyond normal.
And the further out you go the closer you get to the 1 mind.
So it's just our relative incapabilities (Lolth and Thor too)
that we the d&d multiverse don't know we're all 1 mind.
A cantrip is to Wish : as Wish is to "Uber>SDA".


Henotheism ... is a reasonable description of very late
Roman / Mediterranean mythos.  There's a High God
and the rest of them are "merely" Avatars via that SDA
good ol' Elminster was yammering about the other day.
Whatevs, just cuz I failed my Knowledge Religion check
doesn't mean you hafta rub it in my face.
I pray to Aphrodite 3 nights a week  ;) but I bet Ra don't mind.
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Offline PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2015, 06:01:39 PM »
the existence of but one deity is an objective truth.
Easy enough, especially if you cheat and use reality.

As a monotheistic setting requires an unorthodox reworking of the cosmology
Not really. You can either 1) ignore all other "gods" stats (making them monsters that don't exist) or you can 2) consider them something else (like idols). The second option is incredibly easy, especially when you compare 9th level spells to the weird rules deity's have. If you were to try, you could build an incantrix that looked a lot like a 1st level deity. Then when you go into epic...

Quote
If the monotheistic deity is truly good, why does she/he not vanish evil from the world?
I like it when people think that they'd still be around after such an act. "oh I'm okay with me having free will, but not anyone else or the affect on reality or ..."   ;)

Offline DDchampion

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2015, 09:04:54 AM »
Quote
If the monotheistic deity is truly good, why does she/he not vanish evil from the world?
I like it when people think that they'd still be around after such an act. "oh I'm okay with me having free will, but not anyone else or the affect on reality or ..."   ;)

I don't think he meant evil as "free will", but rather as "Oh god why do you make children be born with horrible diseases and then you also make soul-crunching horrors spawn out of nowhere that exist for nothing but spreading pain and suffering?".

the existence of but one deity is an objective truth.
Easy enough, especially if you cheat and use reality.

I'm pretty sure that right now in reality millions of people are caught in wars because they can't agree in  which one of their big imaginary friends is less imaginary.


Offline Unbeliever

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2015, 01:03:25 PM »
One thing worth noting is that our baseline sense of "monotheism" is quite a modern and Western concept.  There's plenty of evidence, for instance, that the Hebrews didn't necessarily discount the existence of the various deities around them, but disputed the role they were purported to play in the cosmology (along the lines of what PlzBreakMyCampaign was saying). 

A few other thoughts.  First, is the question of whether the monotheistic deity is all-powerful.  You could have a single deity, but have it not being omnipotent.  Donaldson's the Land might fit into that mold.  Tolkien's overdeity Eru/Illuvatar doesn't seem all that powerful, either. 

Second, the idea of deities in the kind of modern judeo-christian sense is itself idiosyncratic.  If you look at lots of myths and stories, the so-called gods are just characters.  They have more in common with D&D characters than they do with Adonai or Jesus.  This is a central point b/c D&D has traditionally sort of sucked at dealing with it.  Part of D&D's DNA is the old sword and sorcery type of stories, a la Robert E Howard, Fritz Leiber or the Thieves' World books and maybe Malazan as a more modern example.  Gods are just kind of dudes with portfolios, there's no sense that a "god" is automatically unassailable, etc. by virtue of that title.  But, on the other hand, you have Faerun, where gods are giant cheating machines, and have kind of subtly imported something more akin to the judeo-christian sense that the divine is on a whole other power scale.  And, all these are under the heading of "gods." 

Third, what's the point?  Like, besides the thought experiment, what does monotheism bring to a game environment that is interesting and intriguing?  Sell me on the idea that there's some value in this, otherwise it seems like page padding in a Deities and Demigods type of sourcebook.

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2015, 01:37:03 PM »
Marvel Comics ... cosmology is another way to do it.
The One Above All (and not the Celestial with the same name)
has various intermediaries and various power levels.
Living Tribunal is the most obvious among the cosmics.
Infinity Gauntlet + No guiding intellect + 1 bonus Infinity gem
= temporary Nemesis, the end of the Ultraverse, and dispersal.
Cyttorak is perhaps the most powerful of them all.
Zom and Shuma Gorath are also contenders.
Although lately the whole bunch are having a
BeyonderS (plural !!) versus everything else y'all know.
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Offline bhu

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2015, 11:20:05 PM »
Unless the Overdeity is Neutral, monotheism would be tricky. 

Assume the one true God is Evil.  How does the world survive?  What hope do the PC's have?

Assume the one true God is Good.  What need does the world have for PC's at all?

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2015, 05:53:44 PM »
The D&D Timeline In-Game ... is relatively unfinished.

Deep Time goes:

the previous timeline wiped out by the Le'Shays
Erebus made it over, and waits in darkness (waits for what)
Far Realms of course, could be anything
Perpendicular "place" of Pandorym
Dragons say IO precedes this universe ; but dragons are pro-dragon.

Old Ones create the Planes, the Draeden,
the ancient Dragons.  And withdraw out of the multiverse.
Elder Evils create the Aboleths.
Aboleths say that Piscaethces The Blood Queen,
occupies spaces in-between the planes.

* Unknown powers pen the early gods
in Nirvana, creating the Concordant Opposition.
* Draeden war against the early gods,
decide to sleep them out, creating the Abyss.
** it's unclear which of these two happened first.

Atropus is the Prime Mover of the Prime Material,
having done so, is very weakened, doesn't like
what it sees, and wants to destroy it all.

Lady Of Pain is a wtf out-of-category weirdness.

Spellplague reaches back and FUBARs all of this ...  :cool
~The Sundering (or something else) reaches back for a partial undo.

Meanwhile the rest of the d&d trans-multiverse knows none of this.
The seems to be quite a few capital "A" Attempts
at being a Demi-urge of sorts, perhaps being a step
in a process to be or become The Mono.  And failing.

So who is the "Mono-" for d&d?
(click to show/hide)

 :plotting  :???

(with minor edits)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 04:05:11 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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Offline nijineko

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2015, 09:39:39 PM »
Unless the Overdeity is Good, monotheism would be tricky. 

Assume the one true God is Evil.  How does the world survive?  What hope do the PC's have?

Assume the one true God is Neutral.  What need does the world have for PC's at all?

I think it would be more like this...




a few thoughts:

maybe you could go for a race-via-chrysalis sort of theory. mortals are literally children in a (very) proto stage of existence. you could define that by sentience, sapience, or however else you feel appropriate. go with a you-have-to-know-and-choose-good-over-evil-for-yourself attitude on the part of the parents (if children you'll have to have boys and girls, unless you want to get weird with the reproductive cycle), and posit a rebellious group that wants to do things differently from the way the parents are laying it down, and there you have your necessary conflict.

you could even have multiple stages of progression starting with spiritual, then physical, then meta-spiritual-physical? you'd need some reasons why the various stages (unless you're fine with biology as a reason). good would be defined as acts that qualify you for living in an all powerful civilization with your parents. evil would be defined as anything that disqualifies you. neutrality doesn't really exist anyway, so you can leave that as a mortal-only concept and construct - probably peddled by the rebellious group mentioned above to appeal to those to whom evil doesn't appeal.

you'd need someplace useful to put those who've rebelled once the rest of your kids grow up, plus somewhere for those who don't want to toe the line, aren't really evil, but don't qualify for the full package; plus a place for those who really try. you'd probably want some sort of make-it-better mechanic in place for those who failed, but really are trying hard - i suppose you could go old school and go with a redeemer mechanic.

postulating parents who are decent (Good after all, right?) they look after their kids, eventually punish the bad ones and reward the good ones (which lag in response allows for people to make their own choices and learn for themselves - especially if you do go with a 'make-it-better' mechanic of some sort allowing for fixing stuff and righting wrongs). the response lag also would explain why terrible things are allowed to happen - people gotta choose and learn from their stupidity, but nobody gets away with anything, cause the parents will eventually reward/compensate for everything bad done to the unjustly wronged, and punish those who failed to avail themselves of the make-it-better mechanic and wronged others.



i'm short on time so i'll stop here for now, comments/questions welcome. (i use a "reality is actually mono-theistic behind the scenes, despite appearances, claims, and beliefs to the contrary" setting for all my campaigns, so i've thought about this a lot).

Offline awaken_D_M_golem

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Re: Monotheism in a D&D World: Brainstorming Ideas
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 04:42:02 PM »
Assume the one true God is Chaotic.

No I'm just saying.  My kitty avatar's Tail  wants you to say it too.
explains everything
explains everything literally
explains everything figuratively
explains everything cosmologically
... it's Occam's Razor, even if we're inclined to not like it.

And:
(click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 04:45:30 PM by awaken_D_M_golem »
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