Author Topic: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]  (Read 41927 times)

Offline Prime32

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2012, 04:17:16 PM »
With Prey or Hunter's damage multiplier scaling by your BAB, Fear seems like one of the more dippable madnesses, if you can call 5 levels a dip. It scales better than Joy's equivalent ability at least, despite a x3 damage +15 attack usually being more useful than +15/+10/+5 attacks (and progressing to x4 when Joy doesn't get a 4th attack).
You're right, and after some debate, I think we'll change Joy's 5th level ability to scale with BAB instead. Should it grant a fourth attack at -15 eventually? The main reason we didn't put it in was laziness, since there isn't already a feat that does that.
Just saying "you can make a full attack" works. :p

Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »
With Prey or Hunter's damage multiplier scaling by your BAB, Fear seems like one of the more dippable madnesses, if you can call 5 levels a dip. It scales better than Joy's equivalent ability at least, despite a x3 damage +15 attack usually being more useful than +15/+10/+5 attacks (and progressing to x4 when Joy doesn't get a 4th attack).
You're right, and after some debate, I think we'll change Joy's 5th level ability to scale with BAB instead. Should it grant a fourth attack at -15 eventually? The main reason we didn't put it in was laziness, since there isn't already a feat that does that.
I personally think the fourth attack is probably unnecessary. Its low accuracy enough that its fairly unlikely to hit, and there should be SOME opportunity costs.
Quote
Quick question: If you have Shot on the Run already, can you only benefit from the damage multiplier while in a trance?
No, but the case is minor enough that I can't bring myself to care a lot if people read it to the contrary. Should it be clarified?
Yeah, the multiplier is basically just a sniping enabler, and well, you're spending a feat for the privilege.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #42 on: June 27, 2012, 03:12:14 PM »
This just in:
Madness of Joy
(If a bit more delusional than the default.)

Your regularly scheduled War-Frenzying will resume once I'm on my summer break (aka within the next few days).
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 03:13:45 PM by Agita »
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2012, 07:29:11 AM »
Changed the Racing Euphoria ability to scale with BAB.

EDIT: Also, streamlined the melee/ranged applicability of Madnesses. Fear abilities only work on ranged attacks, Joy abilities only on melee attacks, Fury abilities on any attack.
The general policy is as follows: Madness abilities are agnostic with regards to melee/range, unless theme or balance demand otherwise (as they do with Joy and Fear).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 11:25:48 AM by Agita »
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2012, 11:53:14 AM »
And while I'm on a roll...

Winged Death
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Offline Prime32

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2012, 11:55:51 AM »
Explosive Takeoff (Ex): Starting at level 19, you may move up to your speed as a swift action. When you do, this ability deals sonic damage equal to 1d6 per level plus your Str modifier to creatures and objects within a 60-foot burst of your starting position. A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha modifier) halves this damage. You yourself are not affected by the burst.
Some minor knockback would fit.

Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2012, 12:03:59 PM »
Explosive Takeoff (Ex): Starting at level 19, you may move up to your speed as a swift action. When you do, this ability deals sonic damage equal to 1d6 per level plus your Str modifier to creatures and objects within a 60-foot burst of your starting position. A Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your level + your Cha modifier) halves this damage. You yourself are not affected by the burst.
Some minor knockback would fit.
That carries the risk of interfering with your own combat style, though, since thrown weapons don't have the best range. A Joy/Winged Death would love it, but on others, it might hinder more than it helps... Maybe if it Deafened anyone who fails the Ref save instead?
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2012, 12:11:45 PM »
Is that (level + Str)d6, or (level)d6 + Str for Explosive Takeoff?

Does Comet Throw count as Brutal Throw for prereqs and whatnot (not that there's anything that uses it, I think)? Brutal Throw is the same about Str for thrown weapons (using Str instead of Dex for attack rolls).

I don't quite follow Eyes of the Sky's ability to ignore cover and concealment (nor do I understand what seeing things has to do with throwing through solid objects, but whatever). By "legally target the space", do you mean having line of effect? If so, isn't the ability to ignore total cover moot since by definition you won't have line of effect to targets with total cover?

Offline Nanshork

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2012, 12:21:47 PM »
I link Winged Death, bloodstorm blade simplified.

Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2012, 12:26:18 PM »
Is that (level + Str)d6, or (level)d6 + Str for Explosive Takeoff?
The latter.
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Does Comet Throw count as Brutal Throw for prereqs and whatnot (not that there's anything that uses it, I think)? Brutal Throw is the same about Str for thrown weapons (using Str instead of Dex for attack rolls).
Well, I see no reason against it.
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I don't quite follow Eyes of the Sky's ability to ignore cover and concealment (nor do I understand what seeing things has to do with throwing through solid objects, but whatever). By "legally target the space", do you mean having line of effect? If so, isn't the ability to ignore total cover moot since by definition you won't have line of effect to targets with total cover?
At its basic level, its line of effect yeah, but to the square the target is in rather than the target itself. So it wouldn't go through a wall in the way, but something like a Tower Shield would be bypassed.
EDIT: Or Wings of Cover for the matter.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2012, 12:28:24 PM »
Is that (level + Str)d6, or (level)d6 + Str for Explosive Takeoff?
It's "1d6 per level plus your Str modifier". I thought that was clear enough. It's supposed to be (level)d6+Str. I guess I can put a comma in there to make it more obvious ("1d6 per level, plus your Str modifier").

Does Comet Throw count as Brutal Throw for prereqs and whatnot (not that there's anything that uses it, I think)? Brutal Throw is the same about Str for thrown weapons (using Str instead of Dex for attack rolls).
It doesn't currently, but it probably should, I forgot about the existence of that feat. What's the source on it?

I don't quite follow Eyes of the Sky's ability to ignore cover and concealment (nor do I understand what seeing things has to do with throwing through solid objects, but whatever). By "legally target the space", do you mean having line of effect? If so, isn't the ability to ignore total cover moot since by definition you won't have line of effect to targets with total cover?
Yeah, it basically boils down to requiring Line of Effect - to the space in question, mind. Someone who has total cover relative to you can still be in a space you can target - say, someone using a tower shield, or behind a wall that gives them total cover but doesn't cover the entirety of their space. The main point of the "legally target" clause was to define interaction with invisible targets (which you still can't see with the ability) and general clarification.
As for what seeing things has to do with throwing through things, they're just two parts of the same ability - you see them, and you can target them.

EDIT: We could simplify Eyes of the Sky (and probably make it more powerful in the process) by keeping the first part as it is now, and having the second part just allow you to target anything you have Line of Sight to as if you had Line of Effect.

EDIT 2: Also, any tiebreaker opinions on what other totem we should post from among the options we put out?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2012, 12:33:09 PM by Agita »
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2012, 02:11:38 PM »
Brutal Throw is from (I believe) CWarrior, MM5, and online.

Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2012, 02:32:26 PM »
Brutal Throw is from (I believe) CWarrior, MM5, and online.
Veekie's memory to the rescue: It's from Complete Adventurer. Adding.
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »
Here's a possible alternative to the Eyes of the Sky ability. It's functionally fairly similar, but might be a bit more intuitive, maybe. Thoughts on it?

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Eyes of the Sky (Su): Starting at level 15, you may perfectly see through any impediment to your vision (darkness, fog, smoke, and so on) short of a solid, opaque object, mundane or magical, as though it weren't there.
In addition, when you have line of sight to a target or any space that target occupies, your ranged attacks with thrown weapons may target it as if you had line of effect to it and ignore all cover and miss chances, including total cover and total concealment, as well as the Mirror Image and Greater Mirror Image spells and similar effects, that the target may benefit from.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 12:34:52 PM by Agita »
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Offline Bozwevial

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2012, 12:30:41 PM »
I would rejigger* the sentence so it doesn't list the example impediments (darkness, fog, smoke, and so on) immediately after the exception to the ability. That makes the intent a lot clearer.

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Starting at level 15, you may perfectly see through any impediment to your vision (darkness, fog, smoke, and so on) short of a solid, opaque object, mundane or magical, as though it weren't there.

*The browser recognizes this as an actual word. Astounding.
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2012, 12:35:08 PM »
I would rejigger* the sentence so it doesn't list the example impediments (darkness, fog, smoke, and so on) immediately after the exception to the ability. That makes the intent a lot clearer.
Done (on the current version as well).
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Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2012, 01:56:26 PM »
Thoughts on giving fear-immunes a +5 bonus to their save against the immunity penetrating Fear?
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2012, 05:51:38 AM »
Thoughts on giving fear-immunes a +5 bonus to their save against the immunity penetrating Fear?
Specifically, we had a talk with a friend about immunity-penetrating effects. As a result, we're considering applying the above bonus to saves against the fear effect for immune creatures, and a +10 or so to AC for crit confirmation on Obliterating Hate.

As a result of the same talk, we're also considering having Obliterating Hate apply to only one attack per surge.
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Offline Agita

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #58 on: July 07, 2012, 08:36:46 AM »
Thoughts on giving fear-immunes a +5 bonus to their save against the immunity penetrating Fear?
Specifically, we had a talk with a friend about immunity-penetrating effects. As a result, we're considering applying the above bonus to saves against the fear effect for immune creatures, and a +10 or so to AC for crit confirmation on Obliterating Hate.

As a result of the same talk, we're also considering having Obliterating Hate apply to only one attack per surge.
Bumping for this and the Eyes of the Sky alternatives. Also another thing.

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Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5/PF] The War-Frenzy [Base Class]
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2012, 01:52:49 AM »
It was brought up to me that Despair's Hopeless Burden might be overly effective, since it stops all attacks without a check, especially if you have sufficient resistances to be immune to that creature's primary attack.

Ideas for mitigation(while retaining its intended purpose):
-Limit it to 1/round, except while surging(in order to allow the 17th ability to trigger).
-Immediate action to intercept an attack(requires additional wording changes to make other abilities compatible)
-(PF mode only) make a CMB check at a bonus against the attacker's CMD. If theres a suitable check in 3.5 you can think of, do tell.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.