Author Topic: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)  (Read 3827 times)

Offline AfterCrescent

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[3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« on: July 19, 2012, 01:36:48 AM »
I'm running a short campaign for a few friends while I'm visiting the other side of the country.  One of my friends wanted a dance-related class, and Shadowdancer just wasn't cutting it. Cloaked Dancer from Complete Scoundrel sounded fun, but it wasn't. It was terrible.

So I made a dance-inspired class.  It's currently being tested by my friend, but most of the people in my game are fairly new players, so I'd like a seasoned opinion on where the balance flaws are.  Thanks. :)

Dancer
Name subject to change when I come up with one better

Hit Die: d6

Requirements:
Skills: Perform (Dance) 8 ranks, Move Silently 5 ranks, Bluff 5 ranks
Feats: Dodge, Mobility

Class skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Perform, Profession, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language, Spot, Tumble, Use Rope
Skill Points Per Level: 6 + Int modifier

Class Chart
(click to show/hide)
Class Abilities
(click to show/hide)
New Feats
(click to show/hide)
Dances
(click to show/hide)
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Offline DavidWL

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 03:20:43 AM »
Some thoughts about dance, to perhaps inspire new "dances"
- Great Dancers are artists ... they have a sense of "zen-ness" in peak performance
----- Possibly can take 10 on anything movement related (including combat) 1/round
----- Some kind of still mind ability relating to mental focus
- Dancers who do partnering have great awareness of their partner's body placement
----- Advantages while grappling related to knowing what your "partner" will do
----- Advantages in any effort to seduce
- Dancers need great timing to relate to the music
----- perhaps ability to better interrupt actions, or make better use of readied actions (don't need to declare before taking)
- Dancers need to move from one movement to the next so fast that they you don't have time to think - only move
----- perhaps their actions can't be interrupted?
----- perhaps they can flurry?
- Dancers learn about "stage presence" and performing, which can also translate to some amount of real-world presence as well
- Dancers learn to use their whole body to move in ways we couldn't imagine
----- bellydancer's wave --> dodge attacks
----- ballet dancer's feet --> you can kick with great fluidity ... perhaps something like "snap kick" as a bonus feat.

Just a few thoughts for inspiration.  I imagine that if your friend wants to, you could let him/her choose a theme to focus on (Physical prowess, artistic excellence, sensativity to touch, expertise with timing, etc.).  And/or ask what kinds of abilities your friend would like.  Then make things that fit.  (Either of you could create).

Best,
David (who is a dance nut ... I've never mentioned it on the boards before, but my site is: www.LearnToDanceTango.com :))
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 03:24:21 AM by DavidWL »

Offline DonQuixote

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2012, 03:39:49 AM »
Question.  If a human takes levels in this....


....are they human, or are they dancer?
“Hast thou not felt in forest gloom, as gloaming falls on dark-some dells, when comes a whisper, hum and hiss; savage growling sounds a-near, dazzling flashes around thee flicker, whirring waxes and fills thine ears: has thou not felt then grisly horrors that grip thee and hold thee?”

Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 05:56:03 AM »
Its a little weird if you can eventually dance 6 times in an encounter, but you can only dance two dances at a time. If I'm reading it right, some of the dances are instant effect right? Seems appropriate to allow maintaining only one at a time, but not limit initiating new dances while maintaining.
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Offline FireInTheSky

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2012, 07:02:48 AM »
In the Feats and Dance descriptions, you call the class "Dancemaster," but everywhere else, you call it "Dancer."

Offline AfterCrescent

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 04:26:31 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts, David. You're definitely the type of person I'm looking to get tips from.  :D

Some thoughts about dance, to perhaps inspire new "dances"
- Great Dancers are artists ... they have a sense of "zen-ness" in peak performance
----- Possibly can take 10 on anything movement related (including combat) 1/round
----- Some kind of still mind ability relating to mental focus
They do get the ability to always take 10 on climb, jump, and balance. What other movement related checks would we need? Or were you thinking about taking 10 on bull-rush, etc?

Ohhh, what about an erratic charge? Would that fit better as an ability or a Dance? You know, not having to charge in a straight line and being able to charge over difficult terrain, etc.

I tried to capture the mental focus in the Body over Mind ability. How does it look? Too weak, or just not enough?

Quote
- Dancers who do partnering have great awareness of their partner's body placement
----- Advantages while grappling related to knowing what your "partner" will do
----- Advantages in any effort to seduce
Maybe allow them to take 10 on escape artist as well? And I tried capturing the seduction with the Diplomacy ability and a few dances that captivate.

Quote
- Dancers need great timing to relate to the music
----- perhaps ability to better interrupt actions, or make better use of readied actions (don't need to declare before taking)
I don't think I want to alter the mechanics for readied actions, but I'm curious what you're thinking about with interrupting actions...

Quote
- Dancers need to move from one movement to the next so fast that they you don't have time to think - only move
----- perhaps their actions can't be interrupted?
----- perhaps they can flurry?
A flurry Dance sounds good to me. I like that. As for interruptions, I need to clarify it, but activating a Dance should not provoke AoO. That should cover that.  Would adding a bonus to AC while dancing be too much? That could help express the fluidity of dancing making them harder to hit.


Quote
- Dancers learn about "stage presence" and performing, which can also translate to some amount of real-world presence as well
- Dancers learn to use their whole body to move in ways we couldn't imagine
----- bellydancer's wave --> dodge attacks
----- ballet dancer's feet --> you can kick with great fluidity ... perhaps something like "snap kick" as a bonus feat.
Would snap kick be that useful? I guess it could be good for a monk/rogue combo.  I think that might work better as a Dance. I'm going to see what I come up with next.

Quote
Just a few thoughts for inspiration.  I imagine that if your friend wants to, you could let him/her choose a theme to focus on (Physical prowess, artistic excellence, sensativity to touch, expertise with timing, etc.).  And/or ask what kinds of abilities your friend would like.  Then make things that fit.  (Either of you could create).

Best,
David (who is a dance nut ... I've never mentioned it on the boards before, but my site is: www.LearnToDanceTango.com :))
Again, thank you for all your tips. If you're up for it. I'd love to pick your brain more about the class and help balance/improve it. :D

Its a little weird if you can eventually dance 6 times in an encounter, but you can only dance two dances at a time. If I'm reading it right, some of the dances are instant effect right? Seems appropriate to allow maintaining only one at a time, but not limit initiating new dances while maintaining.
Taking the Dual Dancing feat allows you to maintain 2 dances at once. Or maintain one and initiate another. So you can maintain Rain Dance and then use an instant effect dance and then, assuming you have actions remaining on your turn, do another instant effect. Maybe I'm just not seeing the issue?

In the Feats and Dance descriptions, you call the class "Dancemaster," but everywhere else, you call it "Dancer."
Good catch. I need to fix that during the next update. I originally had the class named Dancemaster, but that sounds super dumb to me. >.< I forgot I had two files I merged to make the first post and didn't edit the second file to correct the name. I'll get to that. Thanks.
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Offline Garryl

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 04:32:58 PM »
Quote
Body Over Mind (Su): As long as a Dancer is not physically restrained, her body attempts to dance as an initial response to her mind being invaded. If you are affected by a [mind-affecting] charm, compulsion, or fear effect and fail your saving throw, you can attempt the save again 1 round later at the same DC. You get only this one extra chance to succeed on your saving throw. This ability only functions if the Dancer is not physically restrained from dancing.

With the way this ability was described, I did not expect a Slippery Mind type effect. I'd expect something more like "whenever a charm or compulsion effect would cause you to act against your will, you instead take no action", since your body dances despite what your co-opted mind may try to do with it.

Offline veekie

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 02:33:58 AM »
Quote
Taking the Dual Dancing feat allows you to maintain 2 dances at once. Or maintain one and initiate another. So you can maintain Rain Dance and then use an instant effect dance and then, assuming you have actions remaining on your turn, do another instant effect. Maybe I'm just not seeing the issue?
Possibly, its just that Dual Dancing is effectively a feat tax, as if used straight(without the feat), you'd almost never use the swift/immediate action dances.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline DavidWL

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Re: [3.5] The Dancer (PrC)
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 03:37:32 AM »
Quote
Thanks for the thoughts, David. You're definitely the type of person I'm looking to get tips from.  :D

I'm happy to give thoughts for inspiration.  I'm not sure if I'm the best for balance, but I'm happy to chime in.

Quote
Some thoughts about dance, to perhaps inspire new "dances"
- Great Dancers are artists ... they have a sense of "zen-ness" in peak performance
----- Possibly can take 10 on anything movement related (including combat) 1/round
----- Some kind of still mind ability relating to mental focus
They do get the ability to always take 10 on climb, jump, and balance. What other movement related checks would we need? Or were you thinking about taking 10 on bull-rush, etc?

Ohhh, what about an erratic charge? Would that fit better as an ability or a Dance? You know, not having to charge in a straight line and being able to charge over difficult terrain, etc.

I tried to capture the mental focus in the Body over Mind ability. How does it look? Too weak, or just not enough?


I quite liked the take 10.  I was thinking that doing the same thing for any physical roll was valid, if you were looking for (high-level) abilities. 

Similarly, taking 10 for combat related actions, if you wanted more combat umph.

I liked body over mind - I'd say just enough.

Quote
Quote
- Dancers who do partnering have great awareness of their partner's body placement
----- Advantages while grappling related to knowing what your "partner" will do
----- Advantages in any effort to seduce
Maybe allow them to take 10 on escape artist as well? And I tried capturing the seduction with the Diplomacy ability and a few dances that captivate.

Partly, I want to make the point that you don't need to jump and twirl to take advantage of what you know of dance.  At least, you don't once you get better.

As far as taking 10 on escape artist - there is no harm.  I guess I think that you can almost have schools of dance (belly dance, ballet, etc.).  And a school gives certain abilities.  Contortion or Popping and Locking or Belly Dancing might give take 10 on escape artist.

Quote
Quote
- Dancers need great timing to relate to the music
----- perhaps ability to better interrupt actions, or make better use of readied actions (don't need to declare before taking)
I don't think I want to alter the mechanics for readied actions, but I'm curious what you're thinking about with interrupting actions...

I didn't really mean you were better at interrupting, rather, while dancing, your actions can't be interrupted.

Quote
Quote
- Dancers need to move from one movement to the next so fast that they you don't have time to think - only move
----- perhaps their actions can't be interrupted?
----- perhaps they can flurry?
A flurry Dance sounds good to me. I like that. As for interruptions, I need to clarify it, but activating a Dance should not provoke AoO. That should cover that.  Would adding a bonus to AC while dancing be too much? That could help express the fluidity of dancing making them harder to hit.

I think something like the AC bonus a monk gets (but only in light armor or less) would be fitting.
Quote
Again, thank you for all your tips. If you're up for it. I'd love to pick your brain more about the class and help balance/improve it. :D[/quote]

Happy to help, although as said, I don't know that I'm the best person for balance.

Best,
David