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Meta Board => Retired PbP Games => Archive => [D&D 3.5] Everything Trying to Kill You => Topic started by: dither on August 13, 2014, 02:15:54 PM

Title: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
Knock yourselves out guys.

I'll keep the OP updated with the current marching order.

---

Front line:
- 2 half-orc warriors (hirelings)

Middle line:
- Grim, human fighter (bridgar)
- human ninja (rikimaru)
- Quinder Streambed, halfling ranger (sirpercival)

Back line:
- "lesser cansin?" scholar (samnemath)
- Charles, synad wilder (mcpoyo) ;)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 13, 2014, 05:19:00 PM
I'm going with "Charles" as a name. Quotes are important.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 06:00:38 PM
I'm going with "Charles" as a name. Quotes are important.

How about Quote-Charles-Unquote as a name then? ;)

edit: Is it just me, or is everyone here evil? Lol.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 13, 2014, 06:08:55 PM
An odd emphasis when saying Charles works fine. "oh, this is Charles"
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 06:33:47 PM
I think that fighting here is the right move- we're up in numbers, we're all at full hp, and they're not hostile so we have an opportunity to trick them.

I'm not stupid enough to go in alone, though.  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 13, 2014, 06:42:19 PM
I'll push for killing if we have consensus enough.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 06:53:38 PM
The lizardfolk are suspicious despite your flattery (what, no gifts? lol) but if you can come up with a plausible distraction they'll be flat-footed for sure. They don't trust you but don't see you as an immediate threat. If you want the surprise round, you'll have to come up with something outrageous -- figure out how to outmaneuver them on their home turf or something.

This close to home (per Grim's spot check) you'll want to make sure none of them can get off an alarm.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 07:03:30 PM
How deep is the mud?

Also, where are the stats of the hired guards?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 07:10:20 PM
How deep is the mud?

Also, where are the stats of the hired guards?

RE: Mud
Gotta make DC 10 Balance check to charge.

RE: Mercs
Half-orc warriors with hide armor (6 hp/AC 13) and greatclubs* (+3/1d10+3).

* I forgot about the greatclubs, I think I said something about battleaxes earlier. They should be greatclubs. :blush


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 07:18:39 PM
How deep is the mud?

Also, where are the stats of the hired guards?

RE: Mud
Gotta make DC 10 Balance check to charge.

RE: Mercs
Half-orc warriors with hide armor (6 hp/AC 13) and greatclubs* (+3/1d10+3).

* I forgot about the greatclubs, I think I said something about battleaxes earlier. They should be greatclubs. :blush


--Dither

Hmmmmm. They're not my guards... but if they were mine, I'd bull rush them into the lizards. I doubt they'd get an AoO because they're flat footed and the mud would silence their screams. Even if the guards die, their gear is worth more than we paid for them  :lmao
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 07:22:42 PM
Amazing  :clap you could "repurchase" more guards by eventually selling the gear from these. Lol. Assuming everything works out and you can collect it, and it retain value of course.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 07:24:33 PM
Amazing  :clap you could "repurchase" more guards by eventually selling the gear from these. Lol. Assuming everything works out and you can collect it, and it retain value of course.

It's obviously not sustainable, people will stop volunteering to join us after enough people don't come back. It's also pretty conspicuous. Additionally, contrary to popular belief, there's a limited supply of mooks in the world.  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 07:25:34 PM
If you build up enough corpses, you could hire yourselves out as gravediggers.

Then hire "untrained" NPCs to dig graves.

Then kill them to produce more corpses!

edit: Hire "trained" coffin-makers for added profit!

You would very, very, very slowly amass a fortune in basic service industry!


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 13, 2014, 07:28:13 PM
Amazing  :clap you could "repurchase" more guards by eventually selling the gear from these. Lol. Assuming everything works out and you can collect it, and it retain value of course.

It's obviously not sustainable, people will stop volunteering to join us after enough people don't come back. It's also pretty conspicuous. Additionally, contrary to popular belief, there's a limited supply of mooks in the world.  :D
I'll be a thrallherd by then, so that's irrelevant.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 07:29:18 PM
It's the new cycle of death... I mean "life". :smirk
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 07:30:01 PM
Soooo, we have 3/5 majority. Who wants to kick this off?  :smirk
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 07:31:33 PM
Amazing  :clap you could "repurchase" more guards by eventually selling the gear from these. Lol. Assuming everything works out and you can collect it, and it retain value of course.

It's obviously not sustainable, people will stop volunteering to join us after enough people don't come back. It's also pretty conspicuous. Additionally, contrary to popular belief, there's a limited supply of mooks in the world.  :D
I'll be a thrallherd by then, so that's irrelevant.

I meant that more as a joke than an actual "suggestion" that we should do it lol. I would nevef expect something like that to hold up.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 07:33:03 PM
Well I do get the most out of hitting first, so if were in accord and all serious then i will
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 07:38:41 PM
Well I do get the most out of hitting first, so if were in accord and all serious then i will

Mind you, we have to kill or disable all of them in 1 round if we're planning to not immediately fight more of them...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 07:51:45 PM
Well I do get the most out of hitting first, so if were in accord and all serious then i will

Mind you, we have to kill or disable all of them in 1 round if we're planning to not immediately fight more of them...

Maybe not, he did state that the only way we could get to their village was by boat. So it may be a ways to their villagesince as far as i read. May of missed it. We can't see any sign of it.

Plus that's why i wanted a group concensus before i opened fire lol.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 13, 2014, 08:02:36 PM
Dithers.

How far away are we standing from the lizardfolk?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 11:10:00 PM
20 feet. The edge of spear throwing range.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 13, 2014, 11:10:59 PM
Are we rolling initiative orrrrrr?  :flutter
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 13, 2014, 11:23:31 PM
Everyone go ahead and roll initiative, I think that's where this is headed.

We'll start resolving combat rounds tomorrow.

I'd recommend everyone throw a couple rounds' worth of actions/tactics up here (plus rolls) in discussion so we can interpret and proceed asap. Here's an example of what I mean.

5 rounds of actions/intentions:

(click to show/hide)

Please note, you DO NOT NEED to post 5 rounds worth of actions. But you might know pretty much what you want to happen, and may be able to save yourself (and the rest of us) some time by describing what you want to happen ahead of time.

Better still, if you know what you want out of the fight, and can tell ME what you want out of the fight -- the fight is much more likely to go the way you want it to go -- but it's also possible that you've misjudged things and it will blow up in your face. So just, bear that in mind if you write out really dedicated plans in something that turns out to be unwinnable ... or a curbstomp battle.

You may want to suggest a contingency for falling back, e.g. "if I take more than half my hp in a single attack, I take my action to withdraw, or fall behind a sturdy-looking ally."

It's also helpful to me to know if you want to try and PROTECT or SAVE any allies -- I recommend choosing a buddy for combat and working out some kind of cooperative strategy. Eg. "if you get hurt, I'll pull a potion and you can take it," or "I can give you buffs if you stand in front of me."

And so forth.

The better I understand how you guys plan to play battles, the better I can cater to your particular tactics.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 12:13:37 AM
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 14, 2014, 01:52:37 AM
Surprise round:

Draws a shuriken throwing it at the nearest lizardfolk.
attack 1d20+4 : 15 + 4, total 19

dmg 1d4+1 : 3 + 1, total 4

Sudden strike
Rolled 1d6 : 6, total 6


Initiative
Rolled 1d20+7 : 4 + 7, total 11


Round 1:
Attack the nearest enemy to me with a shuriken that's flat footed still.
attack 1d20+7 : 14 + 7, total 21

dmg 1d4+1 : 2 + 1, total 3

s.s 1d8 : 1, total 1


Then I use a move action to draw my ninja-to.
I take a five foot step towards the lizardfolk.

Round two:

I try to flank with an ally tumbling past an enemy.
[roll]{tumble}1d20+7[roll]

If the tumbling at half speed gets me behind an enemy without me moving and then tumbling I'll attack from flanking, otherwise I'll move then tumble.

[roll]{attack}1d20+5[roll]
dmg 1d8+1 : 5 + 1, total 6
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 14, 2014, 01:53:39 AM
Also i was unsure of if a d2 in the roll would work so I'm using the d4  as it.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 14, 2014, 01:56:32 AM
I mistyped that round two attack so here it is lol.

attack 1d20+5 : 1 + 5, total 6
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 14, 2014, 10:03:47 AM
Combat actions: Have the mercs continue to attack, fall back when at less than 1/2 health defensively.

Make second attempt at Entangling Ectoplasm, then ready action to Entangle if any try to run away. Move up to keep within Close range if needed.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 10:48:47 AM
"Lizardfolk fight as unorganized individuals."

Talky McFancyspear
initiative 1d20+0 : 19, total 19


Twitchy the Roper
initiative 1d20+0 : 4, total 4


The Talismander
initiative 1d20+0 : 12, total 12


They'll throw spears if they get a clear shot, trigger any traps they might have, tear apart anyone who's downed, and retreat when bloodied.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 11:51:44 AM
Do we have surprise round, or battle starts as normal?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 11:55:06 AM
Do we have surprise round, or battle starts as normal?

I didn't see any crazy ideas about how to outflank them or somehow get the drop on them, so there's no surprise round this time.

They'll just be flat-footed until they take their first turn.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 12:12:22 PM
OK!

Since I will likely go first with my 26 initiative lets talk about actions.

I have the following Maneuvers prepared:
Unbound Words
Spiritual Birth
First Pyramid

Move: Move to about 25ft from Mr Fancyspear
Swift action: Spiritual Birth to get my int to attack
Standard: Unbound words

Ranged Touch
Rolled 1d20+4 : 7 + 4, total 11


Damage (Desipher Script)
Rolled 1d20+8 : 13 + 8, total 21


Chance for my scroll to need fixing due to Unbound words
Rolled 1d100 : 78, total 78
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 12:13:46 PM
If I go first, I will write the IC post for my attack.

Do I hit?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 12:15:46 PM
If I go first, I will write the IC post for my attack.

Do I hit?

You will definitely hit their touch AC -- but do you ready/delay for the ninja to get in his sudden strike?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 12:19:03 PM
Well I see no point.

Fancy spear goes before him, so he can't sudden strike him. Unless I am missing something??
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 12:21:19 PM
Well I see no point.

Fancy spear goes before him, so he can't sudden strike him. Unless I am missing something??

I only ask because in earlier discussion, the question as to whom would strike first came up and the ninja volunteered.

Then again, you did roll higher on initiative so it's up to you whether you want to wait or go. :)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 12:25:24 PM
If we had surprise round I would be glad to wait. But waiting now just means fancyspears will have time to hit someone. So since Azureus didn't manage to avert the fight he will try to end it as fast as possible.  :)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 12:50:39 PM
Here are 5 rounds of attacks/damage for the mercs:
+3/1d10+3

"Battleaxe"
(click to show/hide)

---

"Overbite"
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 01:14:29 PM
Listen
Rolled 1d20 : 10, total 10
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 01:34:42 PM
Listen
Rolled 1d20-2 : 12 - 2, total 10
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 01:38:21 PM
In the future, if you want to throw some miscellaneous d20 rolls for skill checks into your combat blocks -- which I can use for situation/reaction rolls -- that'd be great. I don't generally want to roll on behalf of the players, it's just better if I don't.

---
So! Anyone have a plan for getting that lizardfolk in the water, or do we search the area, ... or do we start looting?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 01:57:22 PM
I have zero abilities that will help get him in the water.

So look around to see if the water is deep enough all around, or if he will have to resurface to move.

Spot:
Rolled 1d20+3 : 4 + 3, total 7


Knowledge Nature if needed
Rolled 1d20+14 : 8 + 14, total 22
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 02:02:49 PM
I have +6 swim and decent grapple but I'll probably get fucked if I go in after him...  :-\
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 02:31:50 PM
So look around to see if the water is deep enough all around, or if he will have to resurface to move.

Knowledge Nature
8 + 14, total 22

While this isn't enough to find where the lizardfolk submerged (the spot is hidden among the reeds), it is enough to reduce the Spot/Search DC to make it easier to find it. Basically, you can advise everyone what to look for and how.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 14, 2014, 02:36:29 PM
I've a psicrystal, darkness is irrelevant to it, and it can see and hear within 40', I've got this.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 03:22:52 PM
I've a psicrystal, darkness is irrelevant to it, and it can see and hear within 40', I've got this.

Tsk. It's too bad you don't take an XP hit for the death of a psicrystal. :lmao

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that was hilarious.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 03:42:43 PM
I say we loot the bodies with some people on watch. I only have +1 search but I also only have +0 spot and listen so I'm pretty terrible at both  :rolleyes
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 14, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
I have a little spot, so I can watch while we loot, although looting two almost naked lizardmen shouldn't take long.

Spot
Rolled 1d20+3 : 18 + 3, total 21
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 04:07:20 PM
Items found:
- 50 feet of rope
- masterwork spear

erp...
- spear
- 2 heavy "reed" (wooden) shields


Such riches! ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
Items found:
- 50 feet of rope
- masterwork spear

erp...
- spear
- 2 heavy "reed" (wooden) shields


Such riches! ;)


--Dither


Masterwork isn't cheap at lvl 1  :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 04:10:17 PM
Such riches!

Masterwork isn't cheap at lvl 1  :P

You guys picked the right lizardfolk to down. Talky McFancyspear was the one with "all the loots."

edit: Is it safe to assume no one is stabilizing Twitchy? Alas, poor Twitchy...


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 14, 2014, 04:14:03 PM
Is it a spear, or a shortspear?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 04:41:58 PM
edit: Is it safe to assume no one is stabilizing Twitchy? Alas, poor Twitchy...


--Dither


Thought about it but don't have heal  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 14, 2014, 04:43:24 PM
Is it a spear, or a shortspear?

Spear spear.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 14, 2014, 05:32:05 PM
If no one else has a desire for it, I'll take it and use it.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 08:01:23 PM
Soooooo, someone take the rope and let's scout the tower or suicide on a village of lizards.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: sirpercival on August 14, 2014, 08:22:27 PM
holy crap this is moving way too fast. can someone give me a recap? i'm not used to this speed, i have no idea what's going on.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 08:43:53 PM
holy crap this is moving way too fast. can someone give me a recap? i'm not used to this speed, i have no idea what's going on.

Met 3 lizards -> killed 2 lizards -> third lizard gets away through the water to its village
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: sirpercival on August 14, 2014, 08:45:55 PM
we... finished the first combat already? right... lol.

ok so what's happening now?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 08:54:08 PM
we... finished the first combat already? right... lol.

ok so what's happening now?

We have a choice between going to the lizard village and definitely dieing or going to the tower and probably dieing (the lizards are afraid of the tower)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 14, 2014, 09:01:20 PM
To the tower. For future reference tho i should point out that i can use sleight of hand to of stopped them from seeing me draw a shuriken so if you would of given me the chance to still attack first i could of gotten a lone surprise round with that alone.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 14, 2014, 09:09:28 PM
Soooo, we head to the tower, I guess.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 14, 2014, 09:15:12 PM
The combat is over so quickly because it lasted two turns into round 1.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 15, 2014, 03:25:20 AM
To the tower. For future reference tho i should point out that i can use sleight of hand to of stopped them from seeing me draw a shuriken so if you would of given me the chance to still attack first i could of gotten a lone surprise round with that alone.

Oops ok! I will keep it in mind for future battles  :)

Onto the tower and uncertain death!!

Spot if needed while we walk
Rolled 1d20+3 : 4 + 3, total 7


Listen
Rolled 1d20-2 : 4 - 2, total 2
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 15, 2014, 09:40:44 AM
To the tower. For future reference tho i should point out that i can use sleight of hand to of stopped them from seeing me draw a shuriken so if you would of given me the chance to still attack first i could of gotten a lone surprise round with that alone.

Oops ok! I will keep it in mind for future battles  :)

Onto the tower and uncertain death!!

Spot if needed while we walk
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 1d20+3 : 4 + 3, total 7

Listen
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 1d20-2 : 4 - 2, total 2

It's ok. These things happen. It's just good for future reference :)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 10:37:19 AM
You have to learn to fail before you can ever succeed. :)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 15, 2014, 10:47:35 AM
 :lol
You have to learn to fail before you can ever succeed. :)


--Dither

True enough.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 01:24:03 PM
So, step one: check/clear ground floor buildings to ensure that we don't get surrounded when we climb the tower and to set up a base of operations.

Make sure that only people with high dex/reflex check buildings to avoid building falling and crushing people.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 15, 2014, 01:35:25 PM
So, step one: check/clear ground floor buildings to ensure that we don't get surrounded when we climb the tower and to set up a base of operations.

Make sure that only people with high dex/reflex check buildings to avoid building falling and crushing people.

I fully support this plan, as it doesn't put me at any risk!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 01:57:26 PM
I don't want to bog down the game thread in case this becomes a lengthy discussion.

RE: The Psicrystal
It has a negligible Strength score and therefore a -5 penalty to Swim checks. As a construct, it isn't susceptible to nonlethal damage (from trying to swim) and it isn't at risk of drowning. I compared DMG and Stormwrack for information about currents, which both suggest a DC 15 Swim check to move one-half speed.

I wasn't able to find any information about very large or small creatures getting caught in fast-moving water, but I feel inclined to impose an additional penalty based on its diminutive size (-4, I think). That would put it more or less at the mercy of the river and anything it might happen to encounter.

Depending on what sort of orders you give the psicrystal, it could potentially be swept several miles downriver.

20 feet per round...
200 feet per minute...
12,000 feet (2+ miles) per hour...

Could be fun. *snerk*

This isn't a final ruling, I'm willing to hear arguments.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:01:59 PM
I don't want to bog down the game thread in case this becomes a lengthy discussion.

RE: The Psicrystal
It has a negligible Strength score and therefore a -5 penalty to Swim checks. As a construct, it isn't susceptible to nonlethal damage (from trying to swim) and it isn't at risk of drowning. I compared DMG and Stormwrack for information about currents, which both suggest a DC 15 Swim check to move one-half speed.

I wasn't able to find any information about very large or small creatures getting caught in fast-moving water, but I feel inclined to impose an additional penalty based on its diminutive size (-4, I think). That would put it more or less at the mercy of the river and anything it might happen to encounter.

Depending on what sort of orders you give the psicrystal, it could potentially be swept several miles downriver.

20 feet per round...
200 feet per minute...
12,000 feet (2+ miles) per hour...

Could be fun. *snerk*

This isn't a final ruling, I'm willing to hear arguments.


--Dither


Don't psycrystals fly (perfect)? Can't it just fly straight up, out of the water, and then come back?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:04:40 PM
Don't psycrystals fly (perfect)? Can't it just fly straight up, out of the water, and then come back?

At 9th level.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:05:17 PM
Don't psycrystals fly (perfect)? Can't it just fly straight up, out of the water, and then come back?

At 9th level.


--Dither


Looks like that crystal is gone  :lmao
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:08:08 PM
Looks like that crystal is gone  :lmao

Or it could be the beginning of a fantastic adventure! lolol

As of right now, it's probably been swept at least 200 feet (one minute).


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:14:24 PM
Looks like that crystal is gone  :lmao

Or it could be the beginning of a fantastic adventure! lolol

As of right now, it's probably been swept at least 200 feet (one minute).


--Dither


It could still move perpendicular to the current, correct? Half speed or something? It would eventually reach shore.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:18:34 PM
It could still move perpendicular to the current, correct? Half speed or something? It would eventually reach shore.

That's tricky. It would have to be able to do so without getting dragged toward the middle. I don't know the maths behind it, I was ready to roll 1d6 every couple minutes to see if it escaped the river. :p


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 15, 2014, 02:23:39 PM
Well, it has 8 legs, so that's probably worth something, and it doesn't half to breathe, so as soon as it touches anything. Hoorah climb! It has a +15 climb, can take 10 even when normally prevented, so climbing the bottom of the river bed to the side and out is an option.

Either way, as long as it doesn't plane hop elsewhere. I can talk to it and keep it locomotive. Plus, this may be a good thing. Everywhere it goes counts as me having visited for teleporting, so...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:25:16 PM
I'm flashing back to Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey. :lmao


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 15, 2014, 02:32:33 PM
Oh, and since it doesn't need to breathe, and therefor float, it can intentionally sink itself and settle to the bottom.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 15, 2014, 02:33:08 PM
Or Milo and Ortis.

Did I just show my age?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:34:36 PM
Only gamers would put this much thought and effort into this  :clap
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 15, 2014, 02:38:04 PM
Or Milo and Ortis.

Did I just show my age?

No matter how I answer, it puts me in the same boat.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:40:26 PM
Oh, and since it doesn't need to breathe, and therefor float, it can intentionally sink itself and settle to the bottom.

Ah, there's an idea. It would still need to climb "against the current" though, right? Since the water would continue exerting force or whatever on it. I looked but couldn't find anything really in-depth about what the psicrystal is made of, apart from the creator's personality (and some ectoplasm for legs). It appears to be a crystalline construct, but is it just made of ectoplasm like the legs?

Or Milo and Otis.

Fixed it for you. And climbed in the boat with you.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:43:01 PM
Oh, and since it doesn't need to breathe, and therefor float, it can intentionally sink itself and settle to the bottom.

Ah, there's an idea. It would still need to climb "against the current" though, right? Since the water would continue exerting force or whatever on it. I looked but couldn't find anything really in-depth about what the psicrystal is made of, apart from the creator's personality (and some ectoplasm for legs). It appears to be a crystalline construct, but is it just made of ectoplasm like the legs?

Or Milo and Otis.

Fixed it for you. And climbed in the boat with you.

--Dither


Is ectoplasm water soluble?  :o
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 02:44:04 PM
Is ectoplasm water soluble?  :o

I was wondering how dense it is. I think it can maintain its form.

Come to think of it, can you "dismiss" a psicrystal, like a familiar?

edit: Also, who's going to check the buildings? And the tower?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 02:53:00 PM
The ninja is definitely the best person to search them. He has high dex, good reflex, and the right skills for the job.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 03:26:58 PM
I'm totally rolling up some treasure right now.

I hope you guys find it. :D


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 03:30:16 PM
I'm totally rolling up some treasure right now.

I hope you guys find it. :D


--Dither

We hope we find it too.  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 03:40:03 PM
Sorry for double post, I think I'll post some d20s for things like spot, listen, reflex, search, init, etc:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 03:41:23 PM
Sorry for double post, I think I'll post some d20s for things like spot, listen, reflex, search, init, etc:

Good idea.

What to do while we wait for the rogue ninja...

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 03:54:54 PM
Sorry for double post, I think I'll post some d20s for things like spot, listen, reflex, search, init, etc:

Good idea.

What to do while we wait for the rogue ninja...

--Dither

Is it possible to get a thread for practice battles?  :eh
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 03:57:52 PM
Is it possible to get a thread for practice battles?

Sure, what do you want to fight?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 03:58:42 PM
Is it possible to get a thread for practice battles?

Sure, what do you want to fight?


--Dither

Iunno... Something of appropriate challenge?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: sirpercival on August 15, 2014, 04:03:37 PM
How about a dojo for sparring w/ each other?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:04:56 PM
Done and/or done. :)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 04:07:01 PM
Do we have weapons n stuff in this bar?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:08:17 PM
Do we have weapons n stuff in this bar?

Sure.

Does it matter? I thought this was for practice? You can set your own terms.

I set the stage 'cause it needed some kind of environment.

I plucked one out of the air.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 04:09:03 PM
Is the half-ogre armed?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:10:03 PM
Is the half-ogre armed?

I grabbed the half-giant from XPH.

Here are stats if you want to take a look (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm).


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 04:21:57 PM
Dem rolls tho.  :lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:24:20 PM
Dem rolls tho.  :lol

I'm going to grab your first roll out of that "d20" post for a Reflex save. Mmkay.

edit: Which just happened to be a natural 20. Wowzers.

edit 2: Tsk. If I'd read your post a little more carefully (or not posted as quickly) I might've realized you intended those rolls for initiative as well. That means you still would have missed AND the half-giant would have dumped you on your ass for 1d4 nonlethal and a barrel of lolz.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 04:34:53 PM
Dem rolls tho.  :lol

I'm going to grab your first roll out of that "d20" post for a Reflex save. Mmkay.

edit: Which just happened to be a natural 20. Wowzers.

edit 2: Tsk. If I'd read your post a little more carefully (or not posted as quickly) I might've realized you intended those rolls for initiative as well. That means you still would have missed AND the half-giant would have dumped you on your ass for 1d4 nonlethal and a barrel of lolz.


--Dither

 :lol I'm gonna get dumpstered anyway
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:41:11 PM
:lol I'm gonna get dumpstered anyway

Beer has been spilled. Blood will follow.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 15, 2014, 04:41:39 PM
Psicrystals are crystal, just created from psychic thought, but the limbs are made of ectoplasm, but are turned into crystal as part of the process. They aren't dismissable, I don't think, unless you get into some of the Dreamscarrrd Press stuff.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 04:53:37 PM
The half-giant moves or steps toward Grim, and (maybe) paints the bar red:
(click to show/hide)

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 04:55:46 PM
The half-giant moves or steps toward Grim, and (maybe) paints the bar red:
(click to show/hide)

--Dither

I... died really fast...  :clap
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:05:29 PM
I... died really fast...  :clap

Aw, man. I'm going to be all like, "Remember that one time you died?" and you're going to be all, "I thought that wasn't for real," and I'll be like, "Dang. Are you sure? 'Cause I remember killing you pretty hard." And then you'll be like, "Nope. Definitely not real." :lmao

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 05:15:24 PM
Oh boy! I get to play again?  :love

Time to die again because this character's lvl 1 is shit.  :shakefist
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:19:39 PM
Oh boy! I get to play again?  :love

Time to die again because this character's lvl 1 is shit.  :shakefist

I saw the little shake-fist emoticon and thought, "lol, u mad bro?" But that really isn't the sort of thing I would tease people with -- honestly, I don't know that there's anything necessarily wrong with your 1st-level build. It isn't godly but very few 1st-level characters are.

Have you looked at the other PCs? I have this feeling the soro_lost is holding out to see if the group gets TPK first, so he can step in and loot bodies before everyone gets done re-rolling PCs. :smirk


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 05:23:23 PM
Oh boy! I get to play again?  :love

Time to die again because this character's lvl 1 is shit.  :shakefist

I saw the little shake-fist emoticon and thought, "lol, u mad bro?" But that really isn't the sort of thing I would tease people with -- honestly, I don't know that there's anything necessarily wrong with your 1st-level build. It isn't godly but very few 1st-level characters are.

Have you looked at the other PCs? I have this feeling the soro_lost is holding out to see if the group gets TPK first, so he can step in and loot bodies before everyone gets done re-rolling PCs. :smirk


--Dither

It's a mid-tier build that doesn't peek for a long time and isn't particularly great until it peaks. It's what I get for playing a martial without maneuvers.  :D

Soro is definitely going to take our stuff when we die. 3hp OP  :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:26:55 PM
Goblin slave with homemade shiv A:
attack 1d20+2 : 18 + 2, total 20

damage 1d4 : 2, total 2


Goblin slave with homemade shiv B:
attack 1d20+2 : 17 + 2, total 19

damage 1d4 : 1, total 1


"I CUT you!" (Translated from goblin.)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:28:45 PM
...And they both threatened critical hits.

Critical threat A:
crit confirm 1d20+2 : 9 + 2, total 11

crit damage 1d4 : 3, total 3


Critical threat B:
crit confirm 1d20+2 : 5 + 2, total 7

crit damage 1d4 : 2, total 2



--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 05:29:40 PM
Goblin slave with homemade shiv A:
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 18 + 2, total 20
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 2, total 2

Goblin slave with homemade shiv B:
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 17 + 2, total 19
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 1, total 1

"I CUT you!" (Translated from goblin.)


--Dither

Unless I'm flat-footed, I killed one with an AoO as it moved into range.  :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:31:00 PM
Unless I'm flat-footed, I killed one with an AoO as it moved into range.  :P

There were four goblins at the start, I haven't double-checked but I'm pretty sure you killed one immediately, then one with AOO -- so you'll note I only rolled attacks for two goblins here -- and forgot to add flanking bonuses... but they wouldn't have helped anyway...


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 05:32:27 PM
Unless I'm flat-footed, I killed one with an AoO as it moved into range.  :P

There were four goblins at the start, I haven't double-checked but I'm pretty sure you killed one immediately, then one with AOO -- so you'll note I only rolled attacks for two goblins here -- and forgot to add flanking bonuses... but they wouldn't have helped anyway...


--Dither

I already killed 2??? I might actually win this. I thought my piss-poor initiative would have them go first.

Edit: I'll let you post again before I make my next round.

Edit Edit: Uh-oh... May not win, even against little gobbos.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:47:21 PM
Even if you step back one, they can both step forward and still reach you with their pointy, pointy knives.

Shiv-master A
attack 1d20+2 : 6 + 2, total 8

damage 1d4 : 2, total 2


(in case of crit)
attack 1d20+2 : 18 + 2, total 20

damage 1d4 : 4, total 4


---

Shiv-master B
attack 1d20+2 : 20 + 2, total 22

damage 1d4 : 4, total 4


(in case of crit)
attack 1d20+2 : 2 + 2, total 4

damage 1d4 : 1, total 1


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 05:49:29 PM
Even if you step back one, they can both step forward and still reach you with their pointy, pointy knives.

Shiv-master A
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 6 + 2, total 8
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 2, total 2

(in case of crit)
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 18 + 2, total 20
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 4, total 4

---

Shiv-master B
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 20 + 2, total 22
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 4, total 4

(in case of crit)
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 2 + 2, total 4
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 1, total 1

--Dither


I misplayed that pretty badly by not moving back with the move action.  :-\ Now I know.
I'm at 1 hp, btw.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 05:57:17 PM
Not a single crit actually landed. You've taken two regular attacks. When I double-checked your rolls, I saw that you killed a third goblin (so I rolled too many dice), and I missed with his attack anyway.

So you've still only taken 3 damage (those first 2 attacks that threatened but didn't crit).


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 06:25:06 PM
Oh, nice.  :cool
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Ohhh... nasty. Let's see how this turns out. <_<

No AOO 'cause you're out of his reach... >_>

opposed disarm 1d20-2 : 20 - 2, total 18


If he's still armed, I'll need this...
attack 1d20+2 : 2 + 2, total 4

damage 1d4 : 2, total 2


If he's disarmed though, he'll drop to his knees and beg for his life...

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 15, 2014, 07:03:54 PM
I have been gone for a few hours and there 3 new pages on this thread????!!!  :???  :lol

Ok before sending the ninja to be crushed by falling plasters I decided to do some knowledge checks for structural stability.

Also I will be gone tomorrow so dither or sirp can play my character.

Just remember Azureus likes plans and does not rush ahead. He is a glorified librarian, he knows his limits and wants to live.

He always prepares Unbound Words, Spritual Birth and Pyramid,

He uses Spiritual birth to hit with Unbound words and Pyramid only when someone is very near him and a threat.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 07:14:44 PM
Ohhh... nasty. Let's see how this turns out. <_<

No AOO 'cause you're out of his reach... >_>

(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
opposed disarm 1d20-2 : 20 - 2, total 18

If he's still armed, I'll need this...
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
attack 1d20+2 : 2 + 2, total 4
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
damage 1d4 : 2, total 2

If he's disarmed though, he'll drop to his knees and beg for his life...

--Dither

I should get an AoO for him moving through my threat but that's okay. I put myself at 15 ft after the disarm failed through clever use of 5 ft step.
I have not read 5-ft step rules a long time. I'm dumb.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 15, 2014, 07:25:18 PM
Hey guys,

I wanted to let y'all know that I'm taking off for the weekend. There may be some updates, but I have my wedding anniversary dinner tonight, and the weekend is when I get to sleep and play video games and crap. So I'ma do that. Probably. ;)

See y'all on Monday.

I have not read 5-ft step rules a long time. I'm dumb.

No worries, I have been running, playing, and designing for 4e the last four years. I have had to reacquaint myself with the entire 3e rule set piece-by-piece. Of course, before I started playing 4e, I ran, played, and designed for 3e for seven years. So I've been pretty quick on the uptake.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 15, 2014, 08:03:19 PM
Hey guys,

I wanted to let y'all know that I'm taking off for the weekend. There may be some updates, but I have my wedding anniversary dinner tonight, and the weekend is when I get to sleep and play video games and crap. So I'ma do that. Probably. ;)

See y'all on Monday.

I have not read 5-ft step rules a long time. I'm dumb.

No worries, I have been running, playing, and designing for 4e the last four years. I have had to reacquaint myself with the entire 3e rule set piece-by-piece. Of course, before I started playing 4e, I ran, played, and designed for 3e for seven years. So I've been pretty quick on the uptake.

--Dither

Have a happy anniversary and congratulations!  :clap :D :clap :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 15, 2014, 09:14:31 PM
I'm all for going in and searching the tower. This is part of what my character is for. If I'm not available when you guys de ide you wanna check it out sirpercival or bridgar can roll my character for me. I work over nights so i sleep during the day.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: SorO_Lost on August 15, 2014, 09:42:46 PM
I might be confused which thread is which, but ready to die in the water dungeon.

And after a few PCs and levels, come back and freeze the darn thing. That's the real story behind Zora's Domain, Gannon hates water dungeons.

Edit - Judging back the sudden stop in activity. Either I need a bath or several people were posting from work and taking the weekend off. Getting paid while playing D&D sounds great :p
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 17, 2014, 10:45:41 AM
Hehe, or living in a different timezome and post after work.

Dither wants weekends off so things froze I guess until monday
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 17, 2014, 11:40:13 AM
I post before, during and after work lol.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 17, 2014, 01:10:33 PM
Rikimaru, usually all out of character comments are better put in spoilers, such as rolls and actions.

Azureus will give you all a one time bonus to a roll (a +2 to +4) with the Bight Teacher stance. I can only give you a bonus to a roll that can be boosted with aid another.

I will put the rolls for the boost. Anything that results in 10 or higher is +2, 20 and higher +3, 30 or higher +4.

Rikimaru
Rolled 1d20+14 : 4 + 14, total 18

SorO
Rolled 1d20+14 : 17 + 14, total 31

Bridgar
Rolled 1d20+14 : 14 + 14, total 28

Sirp
Rolled 1d20+14 : 5 + 14, total 19

McPoyo
Rolled 1d20+14 : 20 + 14, total 34

Hired Muscle 1
Rolled 1d20+14 : 10 + 14, total 24

Hired Muscle 2
Rolled 1d20+14 : 4 + 14, total 18
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 17, 2014, 01:18:45 PM
I did just start doing pbp so i don't yet know how do do spoilers so if you could please enlighten me :)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 17, 2014, 02:35:54 PM
Code: [Select]
Just use the following code. You put the text between the two tags.  :)
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 17, 2014, 02:39:42 PM
Code: [Select]
Just use the following code. You put the text between the two tags.  :)
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Thank you :)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 17, 2014, 03:18:49 PM
Just don't forget all of you to say to what you wanted a bonus for (as the bonus from aid another).

If someone doest consider it is for your next attack roll.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 18, 2014, 10:55:33 AM
Okay, I think I've caught up reading everything that was posted over the weekend.

Let's resolve some Search and Seizure actions. ;)

edit: Here's an inconspicuous couple of d8s (I'll reroll if adding these to a modified post triggers the tamper alert):

inconspicuous d8s 2d8 : 3, 8, total 11



--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 18, 2014, 11:33:46 AM
Well at least the whole played out scene makes for a funny image when you imagine it happening lol  :lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 18, 2014, 11:42:11 AM
Well at least the whole played out scene makes for a funny image when you imagine it happening lol  :lol

I did note your post said "look without entering" but searching/scanning/crouching is difficult to do effectively without interacting with the door on some level. You'll have to just chalk that one up to a failure on my part to describe "in narrative" what it was that your character did.

You rolled a bunch of dice and the ones you rolled poorly on were the ones that got you KO'd. But you got a bunch of information from the good rolls!


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 18, 2014, 12:39:36 PM
Can any of us heal?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 18, 2014, 12:49:57 PM
Can any of us heal?

A quick check of PCs in the build thread suggests no one invested ranks in Heal but perhaps with Wisdom bonuses -- someone can make Heal checks at maybe a +1/+2 bonus.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 18, 2014, 01:04:06 PM
And it seems no one has healing spell either.

Hmmm this should be interesting.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 18, 2014, 01:19:21 PM
Haha, well could be worse :p at least it's nonlethal dmg
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 18, 2014, 01:21:32 PM
Haha, well could be worse :p at least it's nonlethal dmg


Hahaha. I thought you were dead.  :clap
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 18, 2014, 01:27:58 PM
I believe it did say nonlethal lol. May be wrong.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 18, 2014, 01:37:21 PM
I believe it did say nonlethal lol. May be wrong.


I dunno. I'm not reading spoilers intended for other people.  :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 18, 2014, 01:39:00 PM
Haha nice, well it does ruin things if u do i guess. :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 18, 2014, 01:50:54 PM
The spoiler tags are there for you guys.

If you want to roleplay as though you didn't have the information, I've tried to make it easier.

I don't particularly care -- the nature of the game is KNOWING the metagame.

We make decisions all the time with OOC knowledge -- that's what enables the game.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 01:29:39 PM
Listen: 1d20+1=17 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612053/). Distance penalties mean I don't hear theblizards, I think.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 01:32:01 PM
Listen: 1d20+1=17 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612053/). Distance penalties mean I don't hear theblizards, I think.

I only included the base DCs, I didn't account for distance. Just noise level plus muffling walls, etc.

Battleaxe
Listen 1d20+0 : 10, total 10


Overbite
Listen 1d20+0 : 19, total 19



--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 01:33:33 PM
Overbite will report hearing a weird sound like birds coming from inside.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 02:15:54 PM
Listen:
Rolled 1d20 : 16, total 16
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 02:25:16 PM
Azureus will use listen, if he doesnt reach the dc he will use knowledge local and arcana to combine his knowledge of the local wildlife and the sound the merceneries described.

Listen
Rolled 1d20-2 : 5 - 2, total 3


Local
Rolled 1d20+11 : 9 + 11, total 20


Arcana
Rolled 1d20+14 : 14 + 14, total 28
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 04:04:56 PM
I don't think you want to take 20... it takes 2 minutes uninterrupted and there's obviously something going on here...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 04:09:04 PM
I'm content waiting 2 minutes. Pigeons are nasty little Fuckers, and I want to make absolutely sure these aren't the firebreathing kind. I figure after two minutes, if they're the firebreathing kind, they'll come out, and I can spear them.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:11:08 PM
This is going to hurt. Maybe less if I roll poorly.

Better roll initiative guys, and prepare an escape route.

Watt
initiative 1d20+6 : 19 + 6, total 25


Shock
initiative 1d20+6 : 11 + 6, total 17


Zap
initiative 1d20+6 : 12 + 6, total 18


Current
initiative 1d20+6 : 12 + 6, total 18


Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 04:16:57 PM
7!

1d20=7 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612239/)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:17:49 PM
7!

1d20=7 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612239/)

Better roll a Reflex save or four. <_<


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 04:18:56 PM
Init:
Rolled 1d20+2 : 4 + 2, total 6
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 04:21:23 PM
Reflex saves! Whoo!

1d20-3=3, 1d20-3=4, 1d20-3=9, 1d20-3=7 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612265/).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 04:23:12 PM
Reflex saves! Whoo!

1d20-3=3, 1d20-3=4, 1d20-3=9, 1d20-3=7 (http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/4612265/).


You and I are not rolling very well...  :twitch
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:28:41 PM
Reflex saves! Whoo!

So, when you roll up your next psionic character, take careful note of the 'Display' part of the power description...

...And be mindful of using 'Olfactory' powers within 20 feet of reptilian creatures. :twitch

I mean, "pigeons." ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 04:30:40 PM
Next character is going to have levels in Slayer, focusing on fire-breathing pigeons, just saying :p
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:35:47 PM
Next character is going to have levels in Slayer, focusing on fire-breathing pigeons, just saying :p

If nothing else, a TPK here would be GLORIOUS. :D

Then again, if one or two characters survive -- oh, what a tale they'll have to tell!

...What will the ninja think when he wakes up?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 04:37:54 PM
I don't think you want to take 20... it takes 2 minutes uninterrupted and there's obviously something going on here...

Who is taking 20?

I have a feeling this will go badly.

Initiative
Rolled 1d20+6 : 5 + 6, total 11
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 04:38:54 PM
I don't think you want to take 20... it takes 2 minutes uninterrupted and there's obviously something going on here...

Who is taking 20?

I have a feeling this will go badly.

Initiative
(http://www.minmaxboards.com/Themes/Thing/images/dice_warn.gif) This dice roll has been tampered with!
Rolled 1d20+6 : 5 + 6, total 11


The person who presumably just died by failing several reflex saves.  :lmao
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 19, 2014, 04:50:04 PM
The person who presumably just died by failing several reflex saves.  :lmao
After sitting quietly with his ear pressed against the wall for a couple of minutes "Hey guys! I think I hear something!"....
*ZAP*
"ARGH!" *thump*

(This looks like a GREAT game to sit in the peanut gallery and jeer about! :D )
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 04:54:10 PM
Maybe a tactical retreat? eh guys?  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 19, 2014, 04:55:27 PM
Maybe a tactical retreat? eh guys?  :D


Through the deadly swamp of death, carrying a body? I doubt we'll get away. This just gets better.  :lmao
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:56:25 PM
Maybe a tactical retreat? eh guys?  :D

It'll depend on how many PCs survive the first round.

Even the mercs might not make it out.

If each of the mercs either crits or scores max damage and takes out a lizard apiece -- the group might stand a chance. Huzzah, great clubs!


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
Oh Well.

Let's do a mass assault then?

Some  Reflex for when they will be needed.

Rolled 1d20+2 : 1 + 2, total 3


Rolled 1d20+2 : 1 + 2, total 3


Rolled 1d20+2 : 17 + 2, total 19


Rolled 1d20+2 : 1 + 2, total 3
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 04:59:16 PM
Damn that's a lot of aces  :bigeyes
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 04:59:34 PM
Oh Well.

Let's do a mass assault then?

Some  Reflex for when they will be needed.

"Oh god? Oh god? We're all going to die?" :lmao


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 05:02:02 PM
 :lmao Are you quoting Serenity?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 19, 2014, 05:02:45 PM
With that many natural ones in saves, pretty sure even his gear is ashes at this point.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 19, 2014, 05:04:35 PM
Well they are just in case. Hopefuly being in the back of the group, will make him a secondary target   :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 05:05:20 PM
:lmao Are you quoting Serenity?

Well-spotted. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 19, 2014, 07:13:41 PM
...I think we'll wait until tomorrow morning to give the rest of our players a chance to post.

If you want to throw a couple actions up here, go ahead. We can be optimistic...


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 19, 2014, 07:49:26 PM
I'm unconscious though it all lol. :p
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 20, 2014, 02:54:24 AM
OK. So do my knowledge checks give me any understanding on the nature of our enemies? Not that it matter much  :D

1st round

I try to stay about 30ft from enemies and use Spiritual Birth+Unbound Words to hit one of them.

Attack (ranged touch) if needed
Rolled 1d20+4 : 10 + 4, total 14


Damage
Rolled 1d20+8 : 15 + 8, total 23


If I have a move action I use it to recover the 2 maneuvers
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 10:36:33 AM
I'm unconscious though it all lol. :p
I think in the spirit of keeping people in the game when their PCs are maimed, crippled, or wounded -- I'm going to say that if your PC is taken out of the action for a full (real-time) day, you can roll up a new PC until they've recovered -- or you can take control of a hired merc, follower, etc.

Obviously this wouldn't apply during combat rounds.

Also, you can declare your PC dead (unconscious/dying) or retired at pretty much any time. I might give leeway if a conscientious objector argues in favor of reviving your PC, but this doesn't seem like the crow that would to that. :lmao


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 01:09:29 PM
attack rolls
(click to show/hide)

disarm rolls
(click to show/hide)

miscellaneous rolls
(click to show/hide)

Same strategy of disarming those that are 10ft away or attacking those that're 5ft away and then 5ft stepping to 10ft away
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 02:21:40 PM
I haven't seen anything from sirpercival or soro_lost, so we'll start resolving the combat.

If you guys know anyone else who'd like to play, feel free to bring 'em in.

This Is Going To Hurt
(click to show/hide)

The shocker lizards while non-sentient, are communal creatures with excellent senses. Unlike the lizardfolk, they're prone to work together on a more tactical level. While they may not be as efficient as -- I don't know, pack beasts or intelligent hunters -- they will not move into direct danger, but instead stay at the edge of range. Additionally, they're likely going to spread out to maximize the range of their combined attack.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 02:26:55 PM
I haven't seen anything from sirpercival or soro_lost, so we'll start resolving the combat.

If you guys know anyone else who'd like to play, feel free to bring 'em in.

This Is Going To Hurt
(click to show/hide)

The shocker lizards while non-sentient, are communal creatures with excellent senses. Unlike the lizardfolk, they're prone to work together on a more tactical level. While they may not be as efficient as -- I don't know, pack beasts or intelligent hunters -- they will not move into direct danger, but instead stay at the edge of range. Additionally, they're likely going to spread out to maximize the range of their combined attack.

--Dither


It's an ambiguous wording but I'm pretty sure that they all spend their turns on one shock if they all contribute.

Edit: If not, they're almost as badly designed as allips. 6 shocker lizards are stronger than like lvl 10 wizards. 6 x 12d8 dmg/round
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 20, 2014, 02:45:17 PM
Yeah... it says they all work together, which certainly seems like it means that they'd all use their actions to produce ONE shock that big (which is still easily enough to TPK a level 1 group... as it should be, given that 4 shocker lizards have an EL of 6. :P) .
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 02:59:35 PM
Yeah... it says they all work together, which certainly seems like it means that they'd all use their actions to produce ONE shock that big (which is still easily enough to TPK a level 1 group... as it should be, given that 4 shocker lizards have an EL of 6. :P) .

It's an ambiguous wording but I'm pretty sure that they all spend their turns on one shock if they all contribute.

Edit: If not, they're almost as badly designed as allips. 6 shocker lizards are stronger than like lvl 10 wizards. 6 x 12d8 dmg/round

You guys make some good arguments. It does seem like "contributing" to a massive electrical surge might be counted as a kind of "aid another" action.

I'm torn.

A supernatural effect is a Standard action but a "radius" of 20 feet doesn't describe the shape of the effect. Does it hit everything in the area? If so, that suggests it would hit the lizards -- but they're immune to electricity damage. My reading had assumed that each lizard within 20 feet contributes 2d8 to each other lizard within 20 feet -- making this a ridiculously overwhelming encounter (admittedly, my intent).

I had assumed each lizard would be attacking a single target with something like an 8d8 lightning bolt up to 20 squares away, so no matter what I'd only get one kill per lizard. (Unless you fire-bombed the building with them in it and only a couple escaped, or something like that.)

Now I wonder if the lizards would be grouping up and killing all PCs within 20 feet of them. It doesn't describe the effect as a field but with all of them contributing a standard action, it sounds like it might be the equivalent of an 8d8 electric fireball.

Huh. I think I'm going to have to go the aid-another-cum-electric-fireball route. Of the options available, it makes the most sense to me.

Any other thoughts?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 03:04:14 PM
Yeah... it says they all work together, which certainly seems like it means that they'd all use their actions to produce ONE shock that big (which is still easily enough to TPK a level 1 group... as it should be, given that 4 shocker lizards have an EL of 6. :P ) .

It's an ambiguous wording but I'm pretty sure that they all spend their turns on one shock if they all contribute.

Edit: If not, they're almost as badly designed as allips. 6 shocker lizards are stronger than like lvl 10 wizards. 6 x 12d8 dmg/round

You guys make some good arguments. It does seem like "contributing" to a massive electrical surge might be counted as a kind of "aid another" action.

I'm torn.

A supernatural effect is a Standard action but a "radius" of 20 feet doesn't describe the shape of the effect. Does it hit everything in the area? If so, that suggests it would hit the lizards -- but they're immune to electricity damage. My reading had assumed that each lizard within 20 feet contributes 2d8 to each other lizard within 20 feet -- making this a ridiculously overwhelming encounter (admittedly, my intent).

I had assumed each lizard would be attacking a single target with something like an 8d8 lightning bolt up to 20 squares away, so no matter what I'd only get one kill per lizard. (Unless you fire-bombed the building with them in it and only a couple escaped, or something like that.)

Now I wonder if the lizards would be grouping up and killing all PCs within 20 feet of them. It doesn't describe the effect as a field but with all of them contributing a standard action, it sounds like it might be the equivalent of an 8d8 electric fireball.

Huh. I think I'm going to have to go the aid-another-cum-electric-fireball route. Of the options available, it makes the most sense to me.

Any other thoughts?


--Dither


SRD:
Quote
Whenever two or more shocker lizards are within 20 feet of each other, they can work together to create a lethal shock. This effect has a radius of 20 feet, centered on any one contributing lizard. The shock deals 2d8 points of electricity damage for each lizard contributing to it, to a maximum of 12d8. A [/size]Reflex save (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatStatistics.htm#reflex)[/color][/size] (DC 10 + number of lizards contributing) reduces the damage by half.


They would have to move into us to all be within 20 ft of each other and have us within 20ft of one. They would then all standard action shock for 8d8 dc 14 ref for half against all of us. That's an average of 18 damage if you make the save....... This is guaranteed TPK because they can do it every turn. I think EL 6 may have been a bit out of the reach of quasi-optimized lvl 1s.  :shakefist

Edit: In the future: https://www.wizards.com/dnd/ELCALC/Welcome.asp (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/ELCALC/Welcome.asp)

EL becomes irrelevant at later levels but is pretty accurate at low levels because there are few options for characters, thus little variation in character power (Druids being a bit of an exception).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 03:12:54 PM
...making this a ridiculously overwhelming encounter (admittedly, my intent).
[...]
(Unless you fire-bombed the building with them in it and only a couple escaped, or something like that).

They would have to move into us to all be within 20 ft of each other and have us within 20ft of one. They would then all standard action shock for 8d8 dc 14 ref for half against all of us. That's an average of 17 damage if you make the save....... This is guaranteed TPK because they can do it every turn. I think EL 6 may have been a bit out of the reach of quasi-optimized lvl 1s.  :shakefist

I think the lizards would probably first clear the door (single target, nonlethal), then move into the open and charge up for a blast -- so Charles might survive the encounter like The Ninja -- then two or three lizards would dart out to take the rest of the party dealing 4d8 or 6d8 damage within a radius-20.

Then again, an unconscious character can't save, can they? I should have remembered that. :blush

I think I'll reroll the damage based on the above strategy -- clear the door, then go out in the open.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 03:15:04 PM
...making this a ridiculously overwhelming encounter (admittedly, my intent).
[...]
(Unless you fire-bombed the building with them in it and only a couple escaped, or something like that).

They would have to move into us to all be within 20 ft of each other and have us within 20ft of one. They would then all standard action shock for 8d8 dc 14 ref for half against all of us. That's an average of 17 damage if you make the save....... This is guaranteed TPK because they can do it every turn. I think EL 6 may have been a bit out of the reach of quasi-optimized lvl 1s.  :shakefist

I think the lizards would probably first clear the door (single target, nonlethal), then move into the open and charge up for a blast -- so Charles might survive the encounter like The Ninja -- then two or three lizards would dart out to take the rest of the party dealing 4d8 or 6d8 damage within a radius-20.

Then again, an unconscious character can't save, can they? I should have remembered that. :blush

I think I'll reroll the damage based on the above strategy -- clear the door, then go out in the open.

(click to show/hide)




Welp, I can't even save to live there. I die round 1. Pretty sure everyone else does too...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 03:19:36 PM
Actually, unconscious, bound, immobile, etc still get reflex saves. Fun little change from 3.0 to 3.5.

Also, I get AoOs when they clear the door. Spear in hand ftw.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 03:21:01 PM
Actually, unconscious, bound, immobile, etc still get reflex saves. Fun little change from 3.0 to 3.5.

Also, I get AoOs when they clear the door. Spear in hand ftw.


Can you deal 13 dmg in 1 attack?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 03:27:38 PM
Actually, unconscious, bound, immobile, etc still get reflex saves. Fun little change from 3.0 to 3.5.

Also, I get AoOs when they clear the door. Spear in hand ftw.

I didn't know that -- I will have to read that on SRD and commit it to memory. I started in 3.0 and that's what I remembered.

...
Okay, so unconscious still get a save but I think many will still fail/take full damage.

Now, you guys approached the wooden, rotten building first -- which has multiple exits due to the damage. The lizards won't initially be coming out of the front door where Charles is, it's their nest. AOOs would be nice but not applicable in this situation.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 03:33:24 PM
Actually, unconscious, bound, immobile, etc still get reflex saves. Fun little change from 3.0 to 3.5.

Also, I get AoOs when they clear the door. Spear in hand ftw.


Can you deal 13 dmg in 1 attack?

I deal 12, non gritting.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 03:51:15 PM
Mercs save...

(click to show/hide)

...for half damage?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 03:54:33 PM
Mercs save...

(click to show/hide)

...for half damage?


--Dither


Even with max hp at lvl 1 and the lower of the two damage rolls, they die regardless of save... Almost everyone here dies to 10 damage. This is kind of a pointless exercise.  :pout
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 03:58:33 PM
I think only one PC dies immediately.

With everyone unconscious, the shocker lizards will retreat into their nest.

Mercs have 10% chance of stabilizing per round.
Battleaxe
(click to show/hide)

Overbite
(click to show/hide)

Unfortunately they won't regain consciousness without aid, so they're useless to save anyone else.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 03:59:52 PM
Amazingly ... no matter whether you were looking for upper percentiles (91-100) or lower percentiles (1-10), both mercenaries stabilize.

LOL. They can be saved!


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 04:00:09 PM
I think only one PC dies immediately.

With everyone unconscious, the shocker lizards will retreat into their nest.

Mercs have 10% chance of stabilizing per round.
Battleaxe
(click to show/hide)

Overbite
(click to show/hide)

Unfortunately they won't regain consciousness without aid, so they're useless to save anyone else.


--Dither


The entire party is unconscious or dead. What're we going to do?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:02:26 PM
The entire party is unconscious or dead. What're we going to do?

You have a few options. If either sirpercival or soro_lost can be contacted, they can step in and revive anyone who stabilizes on their own.

You can retreat, lick your wounds, and proceed from there.

They don't post as quickly though, so I don't know if it makes sense to wait for them.

Those of you who want to "tap out" can reroll PCs or bring in clones, loot the fallen, and proceed from where you fell.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 04:04:01 PM
The entire party is unconscious or dead. What're we going to do?

You have a few options. If either sirpercival or soro_lost can be contacted, they can step in and revive anyone who stabilizes on their own.

You can retreat, lick your wounds, and proceed from there.

They don't post as quickly though, so I don't know if it makes sense to wait for them.

Those of you who want to "tap out" can reroll PCs or bring in clones, loot the fallen, and proceed from where you fell.


--Dither


Is there, perhaps, a less challenging region? Otherwise, I'm making a much more optimized character...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:08:00 PM
Is there, perhaps, a less challenging region? Otherwise, I'm making a much more optimized character...

I initially designed a couple encounters under the assumption that there would be 5-6 PCs participating. I think it's become apparent that we have maybe 3-4. Unless you guys want to coordinate or work something out with the less-active players, I'll scale back encounters for the active players.

If you want, you can strike out on your own somewhere else (either Goldburn Mine or The Bittermarsh is a possibility), or form a smaller group.

*shrug* It's up to you guys. Still, I recommend at least rolling to see if you auto-stabilize. I've seen some amazing rolls in the 10+ years I've been playing 3e/4e.

(It's even harder to stabilize in 4e.)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 04:11:00 PM
Is there, perhaps, a less challenging region? Otherwise, I'm making a much more optimized character...

I initially designed a couple encounters under the assumption that there would be 5-6 PCs participating. I think it's become apparent that we have maybe 3-4. Unless you guys want to coordinate or work something out with the less-active players, I'll scale back encounters for the active players.

If you want, you can strike out on your own somewhere else (either Goldburn Mine or The Bittermarsh is a possibility), or form a smaller group.

*shrug* It's up to you guys. Still, I recommend at least rolling to see if you auto-stabilize. I've seen some amazing rolls in the 10+ years I've been playing 3e/4e.

(It's even harder to stabilize in 4e.)


--Dither


A larger party of lvl 1s still gets TPKd by a 20 ft-radius of save-and-die.




I'll just make a druid. I didn't think I'd have to cheese to tier 1 but I can't think of another way to beat that encounter.

Edit: If we were lvl 2, it would've been a much more interesting encounter because we would've had a possibility of 1 round of actions before dying.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:25:50 PM
I'll just make a druid. I didn't think I'd have to cheese to tier 1 but I can't think of another way to beat that encounter.

For future reference, I don't run Terminator-style encounters where the monsters will follow you until you (or they) are dead. I will allow for many, many different kinds of encounter bypass tricks provided they're clever/plausible.

In this case, the encounter was initially nonlethal. The Ninja was detected and hit with a nonlethal attack. Even the second PC "through the breach" was hit with nonlethal damage -- even if my intent was lethal damage, I admitted my intentions and was totally open to talking it down.

As I said, my understanding was that the Shocker Lizards would be making single-target attacks. I was open to the possibility of the group avoiding or fire-bombing the wooden building.

Ultimately, the encounter was triggered by the Wilder using a psychic power with an olfactory display within 20 feet of reptiles.

The lizards responded in defense of their nest.

Was the encounter overwhelming? Yes. Was the encounter solvable/able to be bypassed? Yes.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 04:32:39 PM
I'm unconscious though it all lol. :p
I think in the spirit of keeping people in the game when their PCs are maimed, crippled, or wounded -- I'm going to say that if your PC is taken out of the action for a full (real-time) day, you can roll up a new PC until they've recovered -- or you can take control of a hired merc, follower, etc.

Obviously this wouldn't apply during combat rounds.

Also, you can declare your PC dead (unconscious/dying) or retired at pretty much any time. I might give leeway if a conscientious objector argues in favor of reviving your PC, but this doesn't seem like the crow that would to that. :lmao


--Dither
if nothing happens soon to be able to change it I'll be working up a new character lol.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:33:11 PM
Sorry if any of that came off as antagonistic. I thought through a number of different scenarios when you guys started to approach the building, to try and figure out how the shocker lizards might respond. I even read a few articles on Wikipedia about how reptiles smell and sense things to try and get a better understanding.

I'm not trying to lecture you or argue with you, just presenting the information that I used to make my decisions.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 04:36:13 PM
I'll just make a druid. I didn't think I'd have to cheese to tier 1 but I can't think of another way to beat that encounter.

For future reference, I don't run Terminator-style encounters where the monsters will follow you until you (or they) are dead. I will allow for many, many different kinds of encounter bypass tricks provided they're clever/plausible.

In this case, the encounter was initially nonlethal. The Ninja was detected and hit with a nonlethal attack. Even the second PC "through the breach" was hit with nonlethal damage -- even if my intent was lethal damage, I admitted my intentions and was totally open to talking it down.

As I said, my understanding was that the Shocker Lizards would be making single-target attacks. I was open to the possibility of the group avoiding or fire-bombing the wooden building.

Ultimately, the encounter was triggered by the Wilder using a psychic power with an olfactory display within 20 feet of reptiles.

The lizards responded in defense of their nest.

Was the encounter overwhelming? Yes. Was the encounter solvable/able to be bypassed? Yes.


--Dither


Bypassed? Yes.
Solved? No.
There's absolutely nothing that we can do to kill all of them, which makes the encounter entirely pointless at best (Our goal as players is to have it not happen by avoiding it).

I understand that you misinterpreted their ability but your interpretation was actually harsher- 8d8 single-target damage per lizard means that they immediately kill 4 party members. The remaining 2 party members then have to kill 4 lizards in 1 round. I think that one shocker lizard would have been an expected challenge and two would have been difficult. 4 is literally impossible for a party of level 1s (excepting druids).




I don't mean to critique your GMing, I just think that this encounter was out of our reach and effectively rocks fall, you die. We were relatively prepared and took all of the measures that we could have and still got one-shot in a single round.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:48:33 PM
I don't mean to critique your GMing, I just think that this encounter was out of our reach and effectively rocks fall, you die. We were relatively prepared and took all of the measures that we could have and still got one-shot in a single round.

I'm used to a group that sets everything on fire/blows things up at the slightest sign of resistance. Is your experience different? I'll admit that my own inclinations are to talk to everything and reach peaceable arrangements with monsters but I realize that I'm in the minority. :lmao

My understanding -- reinforced somewhat by the group's response to the first encounter -- was that you guys would be pretty ruthless, and armed with the knowledge that enemies might flee, would plan accordingly when alerted to a threat.

...
You have me dead to rights regarding the lethality of the encounter. I won't argue that. Shocker Lizards are tough even for CR 2. Four of them would be basically impossible in a straight fight for the first few levels.

However, I think the problem here was a combination of poor communication, poor planning, and bad luck. I can't do anything about those. :/


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:54:23 PM
Blocking exits / setting the building on fire would have allowed you to separate the lizards and potentially keep them far enough away to prevent them from helping each other. "Burning the nest" might provoke them to be more vicious though, so it may have ended worse all around -- it's hard to say.

Creating a fire to "smoke" the creatures out of the building may have allowed you to take the treasure without fighting them at all.

These are two solutions I thought of while considering the problem. I'm sure 3-6 of you putting your heads together could come up with more devious solutions than I could by myself. :D


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 04:59:09 PM
Sorry for flooding the post. Since phaedrus is coming in as a druid, he can potentially save anyone who stabilizes (or stabilize those close to death).

The metagame is there for you guys to use, so if you want you can prioritize those closer to death.

As far as I know, the scholar is the only PC who's died. I haven't seen a Reflex save for The Ninja, so I don't know if he succumbed. Heck, you might still make it out with only one character death from an overwhelming encounter -- and take advantage of any method I've suggested above. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 05:10:16 PM
I have 10 bonus HP, btw. Don't know if that changed anything.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 05:13:36 PM
I have 10 bonus HP, btw. Don't know if that changed anything.

It did, actually! I'm pretty sure you are only unconscious, not dead. You still have 25 nonlethal damage though, and you'll want to make some d% rolls to see if you stabilize or bleed out. :)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 05:26:59 PM
Sorry bout that was reading feed and catching up. So reflex huh. Well here we go :p

reflex 1d20+5 : 13 + 5, total 18
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 05:29:45 PM
Sorry bout that was reading feed and catching up. So reflex huh. Well here we go :p

That puts you at -6 hp plus nonlethal damage, I think.

So you have up to 4 chances to stabilize at 10% each.

...And that's if phaedrus doesn't swoop in and save everyone.

I might only get Azereus this time around. :p


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 05:33:25 PM
Just in case he does or doesn't get there I'll roll up four percentiles.

1:
Rolled 1d100 : 59, total 59

2:
Rolled 1d100 : 27, total 27

3:
Rolled 1d100 : 57, total 57

4:
Rolled 1d100 : 60, total 60
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 05:34:24 PM
Unless he gets there in time I'll be counted out lol :p
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 05:41:26 PM
Same, rolled four times, nothing lower than a 37.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 05:43:47 PM
I've always played u wanna roll high lol.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 05:54:10 PM
I've always played u wanna roll high lol.
just as bad, capped at 71.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:01:19 PM
That sucks you guys, I'm sorry.

Last night, one of the guys rolled up three characters.

First PC was Charisma-drained into a coma.  Second PC was eaten by a crocodile.

He was having a bad night. Hilarious, but his luck was pretty bad.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 20, 2014, 06:04:01 PM
You can't even get mad at the crocodile thing, either. That sounds hilarious.

Time for my Incarnate!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:13:14 PM
Time for my Incarnate!

You're welcome to "tap out" / retire PCs at pretty much any time -- not in the middle of combat, obviously.

The only real "rule" in this case is that you can't play multiple PCs at a time -- unless you have a familiar, or an animal companion, or a psicrystal, or leadership, or awakened trees, or summoned monsters, et cetera, et cetera.

This is intended as a really fast-paced game. The quicker you guys resolve encounters, the faster you can accumulate treasure, the sooner you can build your forces, and then when PCs die you have the option to revive them -- or "buy them up" to adventuring levels ASAP.

The beginning is only important because we need to establish how bloody ruthless the world is.

You guys will pick it up pretty quickly, I think. And, Oh! The stories you'll have. :D

In addition to adding to the world, those parallel sessions are there to give you an idea of how quickly things can move along.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 06:14:05 PM
Meet Eek (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=18833), the possibly overoptimized, Anthropomorphic Bat, Deadly Hunter Druid
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:17:57 PM
Meet Eek (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=18833), the possibly overoptimized, Anthropomorphic Bat, Deadly Hunter Druid

Man, now I have to go read up on anthropomorphic animals.

Make sure you post to builds.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
Meet Eek (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=18833), the possibly overoptimized, Anthropomorphic Bat, Deadly Hunter Druid

Man, now I have to go read up on anthropomorphic animals.

Make sure you post to builds.


--Dither

They have basically no mechanical drawbacks, just extreme fluff drawbacks.  :lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:26:18 PM
They have basically no mechanical drawbacks, just extreme fluff drawbacks.  :lol

Wow! Flight, and a ridiculous bonus to Wisdom.

Do you actually ride... on the riding dog?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 06:28:06 PM
They have basically no mechanical drawbacks, just extreme fluff drawbacks.  :lol

Wow! Flight, and a ridiculous bonus to Wisdom.

Do you actually ride... on the riding dog?


--Dither

Depends. Maneuver avg is pretty bad, so if it's a confined space, yeah. Don't forget that I have a 10 minute "turn into a wolf but better" spell.

Oh, don't forget +4 to spot and listen and having Blindsense...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:41:14 PM
Depends. Maneuver avg is pretty bad, so if it's a confined space, yeah. Don't forget that I have a 10 minute "turn into a wolf but better" spell.

Oh, don't forget +4 to spot and listen and having Blindsense...

You might be troubled by my general lack of concern... :devil


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 20, 2014, 06:42:41 PM
I'll be in with the druid in just a minute... let me prep spells.

And my general style of tactics at first level is:

0) Try to ambush the other guys, not let them ambush you
1) avoid melee
2) use BFC and mooks to slow down enemies
3) used ranged attacks and spells
4) if any of that fails, RUN and/or HIDE!

it sounds like that will work well for this game :lmao
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 06:47:17 PM
Depends. Maneuver avg is pretty bad, so if it's a confined space, yeah. Don't forget that I have a 10 minute "turn into a wolf but better" spell.

Oh, don't forget +4 to spot and listen and having Blindsense...

You might be troubled by my general lack of concern... :devil


--Dither

I didn't want to do this because it's less fun, more work, and forces other players to optimize.  :-\

I will not be bested again, however!  :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 06:48:39 PM
I feel that perhaps some of you may have gotten in over your heads.

For your pleasure, I present the following background reading (about me):
- [4e] Flintheart's Heroes (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=11878.0)
- Seducing a fellow PC (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13282.0)
- [4e] The Book of Vile Darkness (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=13290.0)

There's a Doctor Who quote (so I'm told), that "Bad men have rules, good men don't need them."

As you may learn from the linked posts, ... I have rules.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 20, 2014, 06:55:02 PM
I should have just looted your bodies and walked away.  :lmao

Edit: His animal friends will all be just at the edge of charge range...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 20, 2014, 06:57:03 PM
I wish that I could play 4e  :( Every time that I broached the topic with my old group, I was greeted by the same "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 4E SUCKS! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! MMO! WAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"

I like MMOs  :blush
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 20, 2014, 07:05:09 PM
I wish that I could play 4e

First major downside of 4e is the sheer amount of time to build a PC. That's after you overcome the stigma.

Second major downside is that because combat powers are so implicitly detailed, it's more difficult to use them in abstract fashion. If you cut your teeth on 3e though, 4e is an absolute joy to play in this regard -- the classes are more detailed and more robust. The playing field is leveled.

Seriously, the most broken power in the game is Prestidigitation. Using nothing but this power and some knowledge checks, I've fought off illness, convinced people I'm an epic-level hero, and even "poisoned" a fellow PC (convinced him he'd been poisoned by using his own knowledge of poisons against him).

I'm definitely a fan of 4e, but then I have some problems with it on a deeper level than most, because I've found ways to break the game that most players -- I don't imagine -- even care about.

BTW, it's absolutely nothing like an MMO.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: sirpercival on August 20, 2014, 07:38:25 PM
Guys... I don't think I can keep up with this game... :( sorry...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 20, 2014, 10:27:59 PM
So do you want me to try to save the ninja, or you'd rather bring in a new character, Rikimaru?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 10:41:39 PM
I can bring in a new one if need be, if not depending on how long it "took" your character to get there u could still have a couple skill checks before he dies.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 20, 2014, 10:44:58 PM
I can bring in a new one if need be, if not depending on how long it "took" your character to get there u could still have a couple skill checks before he dies.
I have another Goodberry spell prepared (that berry was from a previous casting, as they last for a day... although I guess I should have cleared that with the DM... ). So as long as there are some berries nearby (or we can say he has some already in his bag), I should still be able to save you.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 20, 2014, 10:59:22 PM
Sounds good then lol  :clap
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 21, 2014, 02:22:10 AM
ok, I will try to  come up with new character today or tommorow
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 10:45:26 AM
I think everyone who was in danger of dying can be considered saved unless phaedrus "allows them to die."

If Grim taps out, I think that leaves Charles and The Ninja. There are also the two half-orc mercs, who are on Charles's payroll.

Once any of the above regains consciousness (that's usually about an hour, right?) they can 'splain the situation to newcomers.

Eek can join the group as soon as you like, bridgar.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 21, 2014, 11:57:57 AM
Aren't we still right next to where the shocker lizards are? So we should probably be quiet?... and drag our "friends" away from here before we start having a pow-wow?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 12:15:02 PM
Aren't we still right next to where the shocker lizards are? So we should probably be quiet?... and drag our "friends" away from here before we start having a pow-wow?

As far as anyone knows, the shocker lizards retreated back into their nest -- the rotted wooden building. They only attacked because they were provoked to do so by the smell generated by the psychic's power -- which was how they knew exactly where he was and were able to outmaneuver him.

So, it'd kind of be like sitting within a stone's throw of a bee hive. You could point to the bees -- right over there -- and be safe in the knowledge that the bees will leave you alone as long as you don't throw rocks at their hive or do anything stupid.

And I'm telling you this 'cause you have like, two druids in the party now.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 12:43:00 PM
Aren't we still right next to where the shocker lizards are? So we should probably be quiet?... and drag our "friends" away from here before we start having a pow-wow?

As far as anyone knows, the shocker lizards retreated back into their nest -- the rotted wooden building. They only attacked because they were provoked to do so by the smell generated by the psychic's power -- which was how they knew exactly where he was and were able to outmaneuver him.

So, it'd kind of be like sitting within a stone's throw of a bee hive. You could point to the bees -- right over there -- and be safe in the knowledge that the bees will leave you alone as long as you don't throw rocks at their hive or do anything stupid.

And I'm telling you this 'cause you have like, two druids in the party now.


--Dither


Druid HYPE!  :D

I actually have no knowledge nature because... min/maxing.  :rolleyes
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 12:47:43 PM
Druid HYPE!  :D

I actually have no knowledge nature because... min/maxing.  :rolleyes

Psh. You have nature sense and wild empathy. That's practically like the bardic knowledge of the wild. I think that covers basic behavior of animals and magical beasts within a few levels of your PC. Might not help with displacer beasts, purple worms, and whatnot -- but shocker lizards are covered.

Dang. I want to run an encounter with a purple worm. It's been ages. xD


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 12:55:21 PM
Druid HYPE!  :D

I actually have no knowledge nature because... min/maxing.  :rolleyes

Psh. You have nature sense and wild empathy. That's practically like the bardic knowledge of the wild. I think that covers basic behavior of animals and magical beasts within a few levels of your PC. Might not help with displacer beasts, purple worms, and whatnot -- but shocker lizards are covered.

Dang. I want to run an encounter with a purple worm. It's been ages. xD


--Dither




Yaaaaaay, Druid OPness.  :lol


We should track some stuff. I have +11 survival and swift tracker and we're on what should be considered very soft terrain. I can track anything!  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 12:56:30 PM
We should track some stuff. I have +11 survival and swift tracker and we're on what should be considered very soft terrain. I can track anything!  :D

But can you see why kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch? :smirk


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 01:09:18 PM
Spot:
Rolled 1d20+9 : 11 + 9, total 20


Because Trix are for kids?  :???
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 01:46:03 PM
Because Trix are for kids?  :???

I thought you were an anthropomorphic bat, not a rabbit. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 02:04:07 PM
I'm curious how that half-giant fight would go with this character but alas, I'm at work and do not have the spell compendium.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 02:19:56 PM
I'm curious how that half-giant fight would go with this character but alas, I'm at work and do not have the spell compendium.

I felt like goofing around before, but you guys can have that arena thread to yourself now. :)

I promise I won't interfere. :p


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 02:20:56 PM
I'm curious how that half-giant fight would go with this character but alas, I'm at work and do not have the spell compendium.

I felt like goofing around before, but you guys can have that arena thread to yourself now. :)

I promise I won't interfere. :p


--Dither


You weren't interfering. You were entertaining my unusually fast post rate.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 02:39:32 PM
I've been following updates, but have found no real need to post anything in the game thread at the moment.

You can all wake up when you feel like it, since you're no longer in immediate danger.

And a thought occurred to me...

Under normal circumstances, I don't create or use GMPCs in order to avoid the potential for abuse, etc. Not that I don't lack some desire to interact with the party on the character-level, just that I can't be accused of abusing a power that I'm not exercising. Et cetera.

In the event that posting/updates become slow however, I could be convinced to bring in an NPC or three to move things along.

Is this of interest to anyone? Do you prefer a more laissez-faire approach? I don't care, either way. If you want me to drop a heal-bot into the game, I can do that too. Otherwise I'm liable to leave you to your own devices.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 21, 2014, 02:41:22 PM
I'd rather not have NPCs in the party.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 02:43:13 PM
I'd rather not have NPCs in the party.

Cool with me. They'd probably try to kill you anyway... :D

...I probably don't need to remind you that everything is trying to kill you.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 02:43:22 PM
I've been following updates, but have found no real need to post anything in the game thread at the moment.

You can all wake up when you feel like it, since you're no longer in immediate danger.

And a thought occurred to me...

Under normal circumstances, I don't create or use GMPCs in order to avoid the potential for abuse, etc. Not that I don't lack some desire to interact with the party on the character-level, just that I can't be accused of abusing a power that I'm not exercising. Et cetera.

In the event that posting/updates become slow however, I could be convinced to bring in an NPC or three to move things along.

Is this of interest to anyone? Do you prefer a more laissez-faire approach? I don't care, either way. If you want me to drop a heal-bot into the game, I can do that too. Otherwise I'm liable to leave you to your own devices.


--Dither


I don't think we need a heal bot, we have 2 druids.  :smirk


It would be nice to have someone "knowledgable of the area" to keep us on track to do encounters the way that they're possible to complete. I don't mind a bit of railroading if it means that I don't die.  ;)

Alternatively, you could just tell us not to do something. :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 02:45:28 PM
I don't mind a bit of railroading if it means that I don't die.  ;)

What's that quote about trading freedom for security?

...And something about not deserving either? :D


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 03:27:43 PM
Aspect Of The Wolf (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/aspect-wolf--3849/) removes extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities derived from race but "maintains special attacks from class."

How does it interact with monk AC bonus (an extraordinary ability)? It seems to be trying to remove racial abilities and maintain class abilities because you're transforming but doesn't explicitly say that. There's literally no point in me using this spell until I have natural form if I can't keep my AC bonus.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 04:05:51 PM
Quote
You lose any extraordinary special abilities of your own form, as well as spell-like and supernatural abilities.

You keep all extraordinary special attacks derived from class levels (such as a barbarian's rage or a rogue's sneak attack), but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

This is confusing in that the spell description explicitly describes barbarian's rage and sneak attack as examples when neither is an attack. Both are extraordinary abilities. Turn undead or smite evil would be examples of attacks (albeit supernatural attacks).

I think the intent here is that you retain class features while losing racial features. You would lose access to spells without Natural Spell.

Aspect Of The Wolf (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/aspect-wolf--3849/) removes extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities derived from race but "maintains special attacks from class."

How does it interact with monk AC bonus (an extraordinary ability)? It seems to be trying to remove racial abilities and maintain class abilities because you're transforming but doesn't explicitly say that. There's literally no point in me using this spell until I have natural form if I can't keep my AC bonus.

I believe you retain class features (and therefore your Monk's AC Bonus) and bonuses from feats so long as they aren't keyed to your race. This shouldn't be too difficult since man-bat doesn't confer much aside from ability mods and flight.

You will lose flight, blindsense, and racial skill bonuses.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 04:14:34 PM
Quote
You lose any extraordinary special abilities of your own form, as well as spell-like and supernatural abilities.

You keep all extraordinary special attacks derived from class levels (such as a barbarian's rage or a rogue's sneak attack), but you lose any from your normal form that are not derived from class levels.

This is confusing in that the spell description explicitly describes barbarian's rage and sneak attack as examples when neither is an attack. Both are extraordinary abilities. Turn undead or smite evil would be examples of attacks (albeit supernatural attacks).

I think the intent here is that you retain class features while losing racial features. You would lose access to spells without Natural Spell.

Aspect Of The Wolf (http://dndtools.eu/spells/spell-compendium--86/aspect-wolf--3849/) removes extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities derived from race but "maintains special attacks from class."

How does it interact with monk AC bonus (an extraordinary ability)? It seems to be trying to remove racial abilities and maintain class abilities because you're transforming but doesn't explicitly say that. There's literally no point in me using this spell until I have natural form if I can't keep my AC bonus.

I believe you retain class features (and therefore your Monk's AC Bonus) and bonuses from feats so long as they aren't keyed to your race. This shouldn't be too difficult since man-bat doesn't confer much aside from ability mods and flight.

You will lose flight, blindsense, and racial skill bonuses.


--Dither


Okay, thanks. That's kind of what I had hoped and expected to hear.  :D


If I get Monk AC bonus from 2 different sources, it stacks because it's untyped.... right?  :cool
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:04:34 PM
If I get Monk AC bonus from 2 different sources, it stacks because it's untyped.... right?  :cool

I guess it really depends on how the abilities are described... Link? Book? What are we talking about?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 05:12:03 PM
If I get Monk AC bonus from 2 different sources, it stacks because it's untyped.... right?  :cool

I guess it really depends on how the abilities are described... Link? Book? What are we talking about?


--Dither

Unearthed Arcana p58 Druid Variant
Quote
Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC)...

Combine this with 1 level dip in monk and you get WIS to AC twice, yea?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 21, 2014, 05:15:07 PM
I have a powerful druid build I've always wanted to play if my ninja dies lol :p I've never seen anyone do the shapshifter variation out of phb2
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:18:39 PM
Unearthed Arcana p58 Druid Variant
Quote
Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC)...

Combine this with 1 level dip in monk and you get WIS to AC twice, yea?

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbtttt... I thought this was going to be a hard one.

Of course you don't get to double-up the bonuses. That would be silly. I'll let them stack for the purpose of determining your Monk level for the AC Bonus though... Of course, the moment you multiclass out of Monk, don't you need an atonement or something to go back?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 05:21:31 PM
I have a powerful druid build I've always wanted to play if my ninja dies lol :p I've never seen anyone do the shapshifter variation out of phb2

It has all of the drawbacks of wild shape and few of the benefits... I wouldn't suggest it.  :P

Wild Shape and Natural Spell in tandem make druids both full casters and better melee fighters than any core class.

The two big things that make Wild Shape strong are free stats from things with high physical ability scores and the extraordinary abilities of the things that you transform into. That one ability can become +~40-50 ability points overall and ~5-6 feats. Oh, and it's versatile, so you can respond to any situation. Druids are really stupidly unbalanced, even just core.

Unearthed Arcana p58 Druid Variant
Quote
Gain: Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC)...

Combine this with 1 level dip in monk and you get WIS to AC twice, yea?

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbtttt... I thought this was going to be a hard one.

Of course you don't get to double-up the bonuses. That would be silly. I'll let them stack for the purpose of determining your Monk level for the AC Bonus though... Of course, the moment you multiclass out of Monk, don't you need an atonement or something to go back?


--Dither

That's not traditionally how that works but I'll take your ruling. It's a bit too cheesy to dip monk for WIS to AC again. I may dip something else for wis to ac again, though- if I can find something. I don't see why it wouldn't stack- it's from a different source and it's an untyped bonus; it shouldn't really be a question of whether it stacks. I don't really know why I asked. I'm dumb. :/
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 21, 2014, 05:26:38 PM
I have a powerful druid build I've always wanted to play if my ninja dies lol :p I've never seen anyone do the shapshifter variation out of phb2

It has all of the drawbacks of wild shape and few of the benefits... I wouldn't suggest it.  :P

Wild Shape and Natural Spell in tandem make druids both full casters and better melee fighters than any core class.

The two big things that make Wild Shape strong are free stats from things with high physical ability scores and the extraordinary abilities of the things that you transform into. That one ability can become +~40-50 ability points overall and ~5-6 feats. Oh, and it's versatile, so you can respond to any situation. Druids are really stupidly unbalanced, even just core.
except you can also combinr it as a human who takes the feats sacred vow and vow of poverty, that way you get a non magical yet magical type buff to your animal forms. I'd also still do it bc if u don't see by my current ninja I'm not trying to break my character. I'm just playing to have fun and pass time :p
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:31:22 PM
That's not traditionally how that works but I'll take your ruling.

Eh, I'd say that it is traditionally how these sorts of effects work. Look at base attack bonus or caster level, or Evasion, or Sneak Attack, or Turn Undead. E.g. if you get turn undead from multiple sources, you don't gain a bunch more uses of turn undead -- you increase your effective turning level.

If it's a "new" ability, you add it to your repertoire of tricks. However if it's a "copy" of an ability you have, you combine the two effects when they're based on level (such as Monk AC). There's a section in either the PHB or the DMG that discusses how 3e "adds multiple" instead of explicitly "multiplying." I forget where exactly.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 05:38:53 PM
except you can also combinr it as a human who takes the feats sacred vow and vow of poverty, that way you get a non magical yet magical type buff to your animal forms. I'd also still do it bc if u don't see by my current ninja I'm not trying to break my character. I'm just playing to have fun and pass time :p

My first characters in DnD were always druids (~6 years ago?) and I had no idea what I was doing and they still ended up broken. Ranger is the closest fluff that you can get to druid without snapping the game in half or simply not using half of your class features. :(

On another note- Why is the Saint template from BoED only LA 2??? It gives Wis to AC as an insight bonus, scaling DR, fast healing, energy immunities, at-will double strength circle against evil and lesser globe of invuln, Tongues, total +8 abilities, and some pretty decent SLAs  :twitch

Quote
Eh, I'd say that it is traditionally how these sorts of effects work. Look at base attack bonus or caster level, or Evasion, or Sneak Attack, or Turn Undead. E.g. if you get turn undead from multiple sources, you don't gain a bunch more uses of turn undead -- you increase your effective turning level.

The key is that it's a different ability from a different class that gives a bonus that stacks. All untyped bonuses stack with everything.

We can agree that the levels stack (although I think that you still shouldn't get the bonuses until that level but the bonus doubles) but I don't see why you would treat the bonus as anything different than the luck bonus from a lucky stone on skills stacking with druid's +2 to knowledge nature, for example.
 
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:45:37 PM
The key is that it's a different ability from a different class that gives a bonus that stacks. All untyped bonuses stack with everything.

We can agree that the levels stack (although I think that you still shouldn't get the bonuses until that level but the bonus doubles) but I don't see why you would treat the bonus as anything different than the luck bonus from a lucky stone on skills stacking with druid's +2 to knowledge nature, for example.

Except where the bonus has the exact same name and effect as the feature it references from another class.

I might (heaven help me), allow an argument if the features at least had different names. But what you're asking for is, in effect, to allow a bonus to stack with itself -- which occurs in exactly zero places in 3e. If you cast Bull's Strength twice, you would never add the bonuses together -- even if it were untyped instead of enhancement -- because the bonus is the exact same bonus.

Before the revision, you could cast Bull's Strength multiple times and roll your 1d4+1 or whatever until you got the best possible result, but no matter what you'd take only the best of the bonuses -- not all of them.

Now there's a PrC... I forget which exactly... Tattooed Monk or something? Which adds Charisma bonus in addition to Wisdom, I think. That would stack -- and not only because it's drawing from a different ability score, but also because it's stated to stack with the existing Monk AC Bonus class feature.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:51:01 PM
On another note- Why is the Saint template from BoED only LA 2??? It gives Wis to AC as an insight bonus, scaling DR, fast healing, energy immunities, at-will double strength circle against evil and lesser globe of invuln, Tongues, total +8 abilities, and some pretty decent SLAs  :twitch

I've tried for Saint myself before. I played a really, really, unbelievably Good character. Not only in allowing myself to be railroaded by my dumb-as-a-bag-of-hammers GM, and swallowing his line of BS about morality this, and philosophy that -- bear in mind that between the two of us, I was the only one who had taken philosophy or psychology classes -- but we were playing in a Crapsack Everything Trying To Kill You World, and he still wouldn't let me become a Saint because I "wasn't Good enough." He tried to make me take some other BS PrC/template.

Just so you know. That template and I have a history. I will not make it easy for you. :shakefist


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 05:52:40 PM
On another note- Why is the Saint template from BoED only LA 2??? It gives Wis to AC as an insight bonus, scaling DR, fast healing, energy immunities, at-will double strength circle against evil and lesser globe of invuln, Tongues, total +8 abilities, and some pretty decent SLAs  :twitch

I've tried for Saint myself before. I played a really, really, unbelievably Good character. Not only in allowing myself to be railroaded by my dumb-as-a-bag-of-hammers GM, and swallowing his line of BS about morality this, and philosophy that -- bear in mind that between the two of us, I was the only one who had taken philosophy or psychology classes -- but we were playing in a Crapsack Everything Trying To Kill You World, and he still wouldn't let me become a Saint because I "wasn't Good enough." He tried to make me take some other BS PrC/template.

Just so you know. That template and I have a history. I will not make it easy for you. :shakefist


--Dither

I was under the impression that you couldn't apply anything with LA after a character was created. Am I wrong on that?  :o
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 05:55:40 PM
I was under the impression that you couldn't apply anything with LA after a character was created. Am I wrong on that?  :o

Saint is an acquired rather than inherited template. You only get it by undergoing a ritual process, like becoming a lich. Do you have the book to look at? Chapter 2 actually discusses how to become a Saint.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 06:00:04 PM
I was under the impression that you couldn't apply anything with LA after a character was created. Am I wrong on that?  :o

Saint is an acquired rather than inherited template. You only get it by undergoing a ritual process, like becoming a lich. Do you have the book to look at? Chapter 2 actually discusses how to become a Saint.


--Dither

Requires level 6, good alignment, 3 wasted feats, and "extraordinary sacrifice." What little interest I had to begin with is now gone.  :lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 06:01:28 PM
Requires level 6, good alignment, 3 wasted feats, and "extraordinary sacrifice." What little interest I had to begin with is now gone.  :lol

Oh, but the stories you could tell...


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 06:10:38 PM
Oh, but the stories you could tell...


--Dither

The stories involved in the two full alignment shifts would be quite something.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 06:30:57 PM
Obligatory spot and survival checks:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 21, 2014, 06:40:53 PM
hide 1d20+7 : 11 + 7, total 18

move silent 1d20+7 : 18 + 7, total 25

spot 1d20+7 : 3 + 7, total 10

listen 1d20+4 : 6 + 4, total 10
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 07:02:35 PM
I was thinking more Louisiana marshy swamp with lots of trees.  :D

I guess that I'll fly at about 20 ft and throw in a listen check

List:
Rolled 1d20+9 : 6 + 9, total 15


I think that we should head out of this area. It's a pretty rough place for lvl 1s. I can't tell if the mines or the other swamp would be easier. Crocs are scary but Thoqquas will one-shot us as well. :shrug:

I may also be misentrepreting whether or not we're allowed to go to those places.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 07:08:50 PM
I may also be misentrepreting whether or not we're allowed to go to those places.

Oh, you can leave. You just need to let me know that's what you're trying to do. I read a "safe place" as a "safe place without leaving the danger zone."

Do you guys want to head for an outpost/settlement/town?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 07:13:22 PM
I may also be misentrepreting whether or not we're allowed to go to those places.

Oh, you can leave. You just need to let me know that's what you're trying to do. I read a "safe place" as a "safe place without leaving the danger zone."

Do you guys want to head for an outpost/settlement/town?


--Dither

You read that correctly. We kind of just needed to get them away from the lizards.

I am now contemplating attempting to leave the entire region. Shocker lizards are scary.  :bigeyes

We may be able to take on the lizard village... maybe. We have to get gold somehow...
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 21, 2014, 07:13:35 PM
I wouldn't mind goinh to a town or settlement. Then reevaluate the situation.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 07:21:09 PM
Hunt's Brook is a trading post upriver where you can rest, eat, trade, hire mercs, and maybe get a job. (It's where you'd turn in shocker lizard tails for a bounty.)

It doesn't have a stable population, but usually sits right around 100 people.

You can get there before nightfall, and go there without leaving the region. You can also go there if you want to rest up before leaving the region.

Let me know if you want to go somewhere farther away.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 21, 2014, 07:23:04 PM
I think that should do fine. Anyone else?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 21, 2014, 07:24:06 PM
We can go there but I won't be going in per se. I'll wait outside, being a bat and all.  :cool
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 21, 2014, 11:05:17 PM
Okay, tomorrow morning I will create a new thread to represent the scene transition. This 'scene' is what I mean when I say you can level only once per scene -- if you guys travel between outposts or regions or whatever.

It might be a good idea to decide ahead of time, or discuss as a group if you want to buy food at the outpost, where you want to sleep, and whether you want to stick together or split up.

REMEMBER THE NAME OF THIS GAME.

Discuss amongst yourselves whether you want to hire some new mercs (PHB races, NPC classes), and/or if you want to cut Battleaxe and Overbite loose.

If you want, you can send one or all of your PCs into temporary retirement to try a different race or class for an adventure or two. I'm sure you could work out some way to collude between multiple characters without ever playing more than one at a time. Remember that your most valuable resources are each other.

Keep in mind the request thread. If you want to make contact with a specific affiliation or PrC organization, let me know as soon as possible. If you want to track down a particular spell to add to your spellbook, let me know as soon as possible. And so on, and so forth.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 22, 2014, 01:49:32 AM
Keep in mind the request thread. If you want to make contact with a specific affiliation or PrC organization, let me know as soon as possible. If you want to track down a particular spell to add to your spellbook, let me know as soon as possible. And so on, and so forth.

I may want to consider arcane heirophant but that's ages away, if we survive.

I'm pretty sure the gnome's going planar shepherd.  :lmao
No other reason to take greensinger initiate. I really hope that we don't get that far with these stupid builds; I've never really had fun with ubercasters other than building them.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 22, 2014, 10:01:15 AM
Keep in mind the request thread. If you want to make contact with a specific affiliation or PrC organization, let me know as soon as possible. If you want to track down a particular spell to add to your spellbook, let me know as soon as possible. And so on, and so forth.

I may want to consider arcane heirophant but that's ages away, if we survive.

I'm pretty sure the gnome's going planar shepherd.  :lmao
No other reason to take greensinger initiate. I really hope that we don't get that far with these stupid builds; I've never really had fun with ubercasters other than building them.
I actually took that feat for Hide as a class skill and Charm Person as a spell, because it fits the theme of my character, and it's a pretty big boost to his diversity. That character was made for a solo game where he had to basically be the whole party by himself (taking on encounters made for a balanced party, etc).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 22, 2014, 11:25:01 AM
Hunt's Brook thread is up.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 22, 2014, 11:42:15 AM
Oh, we made it there without a problem?  :love
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 22, 2014, 12:02:31 PM
Oh, we made it there without a problem?  :love

When I kill you, you'll be in a dungeon or other explicitly hazardous environment, you'll be conscious, and you'll be armed.

...So like, not with a random encounter or something stupid like that. <_<


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 22, 2014, 06:37:22 PM
I'm assuming with almost a full day elapsed, my psicrystal has caught back up?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 22, 2014, 06:41:03 PM
I'm assuming with almost a full day elapsed, my psicrystal has caught back up?

Sure. You'll have to remind me if you ever go off in that direction -- your psicrystal made an incredible journey along the way. ;)

...I mean, you'll have some idea of the region before going in.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: bridgar on August 23, 2014, 02:25:37 PM
Sorry I haven't posted in a while. My roommate got in a car crash yesterday and my life turned upside down.  :bigeyes

I'll just spend the time in the settlement up a tree sleeping or something. Have my dog stay with the group.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 25, 2014, 02:19:35 AM
Hello guys. My leave from work is over, and this goes in too frantic a pace for me keep up.

Have fun!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 25, 2014, 11:25:33 AM
Hello guys. My leave from work is over, and this goes in too frantic a pace for me keep up.

Sorry to see you go, Samnemath. You're always welcome to return. :)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: samnemath on August 25, 2014, 11:48:16 AM
Thanks! I certainly hope that I will find some time after things get back on track after a slow August.  :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 25, 2014, 02:13:13 PM
Should have something up later today. Prepping to move this weekend, shit got crazy.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 25, 2014, 04:07:10 PM
I had an idea for a more "gameable" method of determining the difficulty of delves -- rather than sprinkling hard encounters throughout and letting you find/avoid them, I think I'll create a leveling system for dungeons -- based on how many PCs/NPCs the dungeon kills. :smirk

There's more strategy to it that way.

Here's the basic idea -- a dungeon is of a typical level to challenge the PCs who enter. When the party retreats from the dungeon, it gains one level for each fallen PC and/or one level per two NPCs slain.

Encounters and treasure regenerate when a dungeon levels up, unless one of two things happen -- the dungeon's "treasury" is looted (best loot in the dungeon), or the dungeon's "boss" is slain (overwhelming CR monster). In either case, there's maybe a 50-50 chance at best that the dungeon will be abandoned, or will be taken over by an entirely new group of monsters.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on August 25, 2014, 06:48:26 PM
Should have something up later today. Prepping to move this weekend, shit got crazy.
I have 4 tests this week (3 left).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 25, 2014, 07:16:20 PM
I just started class last week. I feel your pain.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 25, 2014, 09:33:09 PM
Did my mercs survive? Just need to know if I need to replace them or not.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 26, 2014, 11:04:10 AM
Did my mercs survive? Just need to know if I need to replace them or not.

Battleaxe and Overbite both stabilized and no one suggested abandoning them to their fates, so I'm going to assume y'all stuck around long enough for them to regain consciousness and limp along behind you.

See? Only one real PC death. And no NPCs were killed either. :D


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 26, 2014, 08:38:58 PM
I'm going to since we're in town, go ahead and switch characters. I'll post a new one later.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 27, 2014, 03:05:43 PM
Heads up guys...

The half-orcs blabbing about your escapades in the Shockrise is going to get some attention.

Specifically, I was thinking you'd be approached by an Elf Ranger with favored enemy (humanoid-reptilian) who wants to enlist if you plan on heading back.

This character can be 'adopted' if anyone wants him, or he can be a GMPC. He'll be 2nd level, with the archery combat style. His 1st-level feat is Point Blank Shot.

Let me know if anyone's interested. He isn't looking for pay, he's "chasing tail" as it were. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on August 27, 2014, 11:52:19 PM
Saw your post and had an idea for a character, but got some questions to fire at you.

Can I play a lesser psionic duergar, assuming the stats on page 190 of Player's Guide to Faerun, with enlarge person swapped with expansion and one bonus power point.

Would it be possible to extend Share Soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum 41) to include psicrystals?

When sharing a soulmeld with a creative and/or world effecting aspect, such as Incarnate Weapon (72), is the object recreated each time your pet leaves and returns? Are any limited uses reset (Lifebound Vestments - 76)? Are ongoing effects re-instated or re-done (bound Necrocarnum Circlet - 78)?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 01:06:52 AM
Can I play a lesser psionic duergar, assuming the stats on page 190 of Player's Guide to Faerun, with enlarge person swapped with expansion and one bonus power point.

Lesser duergar is probably cool, let me check and get back to you. As for the rest of the things, I will look into them now. I haven't used Incarnum for a while so I'll need a refresher.

edit: If I understand correctly, you'd be using Lesser Duergar virtually as-written from PGF with the only change being SLA to Psi Expansion, and one PP at 1st level? I can get behind that.



--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 01:35:42 AM
Would it be possible to extend Share Soulmeld (Magic of Incarnum 41) to include psicrystals?

When sharing a soulmeld with a creative and/or world effecting aspect, such as Incarnate Weapon (72), is the object recreated each time your pet leaves and returns? Are any limited uses reset (Lifebound Vestments - 76)? Are ongoing effects re-instated or re-done (bound Necrocarnum Circlet - 78)?

Okay. See if you follow my reasoning here. First, yes you can extend Share Soulmeld to a psicrystal -- considering other places where Psionics is mentioned in conjunction with Incarnum, I assume this was merely an oversight.

Now, it seems pretty clear they're drawing a parallel to Share Spells/Share Powers effects. I think it's reasonable to assume the same here. As the parallel features do not themselves GRANT bonus spells or powers, it seems reasonable also that shared soulmelds do not generate extra soulmelds -- a strict reading of the feat supports this.

Your companion shares the EFFECT. It does not shape a second soulmeld -- I think that renders your first question moot? There is only one soulmeld, shaped to you, therefore it does not move and can't be unshaped, etc.

Actually, I think that answers all three of your questions. As there is only one soulmeld, there is only one effect (or pool of uses, per the Lifebound Vestment) but you and your psicrystal can both access it.

Make sense?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on August 28, 2014, 02:06:51 AM
That exactly the idea.

So, buffs and attack type are shared, but no doubling of the special effects, makes sense.

One last point of discussion on the topic (regardless of how doomed the character is), the bound Circlet grants you the ability to reanimate something, it takes a meldshaper level and reserves some of your health, how does this all interact with the sharing? On my first look I saw only the granting of the ability to reanimate something, with a limit of one per person getting affected by the meld.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 02:17:40 AM
One last point of discussion on the topic (regardless of how doomed the character is), the bound Circlet grants you the ability to reanimate something, it takes a meldshaper level and reserves some of your health, how does this all interact with the sharing? On my first look I saw only the granting of the ability to reanimate something, with a limit of one per person getting affected by the meld.

Following the logic from before, one soulmeld means one zombie. You or your psicrystal can activate the ability, or command the creature. Line of effect can be to you or your psicrystal. Also, the circlet's normal effect would include two overlapping (but not stacking) sense/auras, if that means anything to you. :p

Only you would have to pay the hit points for your zombie, since you're the one animating it -- even if your psicrystal activates the ability. This is because it's merely channeling YOUR power. Sound good?

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on August 28, 2014, 06:17:33 AM
Crystal clear, it just had nagging details.

Without the doubling of minions, I am not certain of the build now... I was going to go Incarnate 2/Cleric 3/Sapphire Hierarch, but now a Totemist/Ardent is looking better (in the longer run anyways). Of course going that path I would want to probably use Soul Manifester (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20060217a) and maybe tweak mantle lists based on Substitute Powers (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a)

Oh this (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7684.0) looks really neat, but I am not certain on the power list, probably same tweaking as above.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 09:13:24 AM
Without the doubling of minions, I am not certain of the build now...

Not meaning to overstep or anything... If you're looking for minions, evil clerics Command Undead as early as level 2 for skeletons, level 4 for basic zombies, and animate their own at level 5. There are also mercenaries you can hire, of course.

Druid begins play with a combat-ready animal companion, Handle Animal to potentially rear and train more, and Summon Nature's Ally. Also, NPC hirelings. At this point I think we have two druids on the team -- one basically an Awakened Bat -- you guys are well on your way to founding your own Druid Circle.

Wizard also gets Command Undead at level 3, and mindless undead get no save to resist. Also, hirelings. Did I mention mercenaries are 2.1 gold per week? Are you guys trying to challenge yourselves? You could hire adepts or experts if warriors seem "too good." Just saying.

Undead just get the short end of the stick.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on August 28, 2014, 09:17:55 AM
You forgot Dread Necromancers :P
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 09:27:53 AM
You forgot Dread Necromancers :P

I know core better than most. I doubled-checked spell levels and durations but I wasn't trying to make an exhaustive list. Unless you meant the dread necromancer gets the short end of the stick? :smirk

An easy 1st-level  strategy ought to be wizard, cleric, or bard with 2-3  hirelings. Wizards buff, clerics bless and heal, and bards... sing. You know? The multiplication should be trans parent enough. Bardic music to give 3 mercs +1 to hit.

I'm not trying to push GMPCs on you, I just don't know why you guys are making things harder for yourself. Not you, obviously, Battleaxe and Overbite are paid through the week after all. ;)

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 28, 2014, 10:52:50 AM

If by chance the bard makes lvl 2 he can then swift inspirational boost and buff the inspiration up to a +2 to hit and dmg lol :)

Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on August 28, 2014, 02:21:18 PM
If you're looking for minions
Well, it was more an interesting way to do it, first level would see the character with three minions (allowing for four ranged attacks), second level would see the addition of two zombies. With a hopeful addition of a practiced meldshaper feat, the zombies would keep up with the character's level while starting on cleric (with spontaneous magic domain) for the very undead minions you mentioned. Finally going into Sapphire Hierarch to progress them both (all this was before the Q&A though, which I fully accept).

How did you feel about the linked content?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 28, 2014, 07:45:33 PM
How did you feel about the linked content?

I must have been really tired to miss the links. <_<

Soul Manifester is fine, I've actually played one before. I was the only person in our home group who cared about Incarnum or Psionics, and I couldn't settle for just one. Also, I felt like showing off. >_>

The other stuff looks fairly benign. :)

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 28, 2014, 10:46:47 PM
Psionics are awesome. Personally I like Divine Minds :)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 28, 2014, 11:35:19 PM
Speaking of which, now that "Gareth" is done being built since i finally had free time.


After he hears of the exploits the half-orc is going on about and sees the ranger approach him, i stand up boldly and approach the ranger.

Why hello good sir, I couldn't help, but over hear that you wished to rid the land of some lizards. I would be most willing to help, and i believe we could both prosper from this most advantageous of alliances. Don't you?

Also i want to hire some mercs with what gold i have left. Potentially someone who can heal, and two others who are heavy melee fighters.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 11:26:55 AM
Speaking of which, now that "Gareth" is done being built since i finally had free time.

Also i want to hire some mercs with what gold i have left. Potentially someone who can heal, and two others who are heavy melee fighters.

If you wouldn't mind re-posting your dialogue there in the "Hunt'S Brook" thread, we'll proceed from there.

Adepts have access to cure, you'll just need to give me an idea of what race you're looking for -- human, dwarf, elf, gnome, halfling, half-elf, or half-orc. Same for the two warriors. I can choose the race for you if you like, but I'm giving you the option.

I should probably emphasize that PC classes and non-PHB races are not available for hirelings yet.

On a side note, do you intend to stick with the other players or strike out on your own? I recommend discussing with them if you want to return to the Shockrise, it sounded as though they were keen on heading elsewhere.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 01:49:31 PM
Ah my bad, if the party is leaving shockrise then I'll head out with them.

As for the adept-human,warriors-half orcs.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 01:51:15 PM
As for the adept-human,warriors-half orcs.

Good deal, I'll post some stats for 1st-level hirelings. I think they'll be handy later.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 01:56:31 PM
Especially since I'll be buffing their atks and dmg.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 02:20:38 PM
"Task delegation. Are there any problems it can't solve?"

Lol, how's that for introducing a new PC to the group? Give your hirelings some time-off and they'll catch the new PCs up to speed!

Battleax and Overbite might even give you a recommendation, just for drinking with them. :lmao


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 02:57:22 PM
Haha mead, creating friends since the medieval era  :lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 02:59:22 PM
Haha mead, creating friends since the medieval era  :lol

Are you kidding? Mead is way older than that. Like, prehistory older.

Probably goes back even farther than the domestication of bees.

"Bees. My god."


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 04:53:24 PM
Haha mead, creating friends since the medieval era  :lol

Are you kidding? Mead is way older than that. Like, prehistory older.

Probably goes back even farther than the domestication of bees.

"Bees. My god."


--Dither


Hmmm well I'm not to keen on history behind alcahols lol, that and it's probably the onky era I've heard or at least remembered hearing about it being in. Lol

Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 05:08:02 PM
Hmmm well I'm not to keen on history behind alcahols lol, that and it's probably the onky era I've heard or at least remembered hearing about it being in. Lol

I developed an optional drinking and alcohol-brewing system, and did some extensive research on the subject.

However like an alcohol-induced amnesia, I have forgotten all but the most random tidbits of information. :lmao


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 06:15:16 PM
Did you do a littlecto much product testing?  :eh lol
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on August 29, 2014, 06:18:44 PM
Did you do a littlecto much product testing?  :eh lol

As a matter of fact, I killed a couple PCs with alcohol poisoning. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 06:36:49 PM
That's always fun  :clap
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on August 29, 2014, 07:45:42 PM
Dither told me to post here.  What's happening?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on August 29, 2014, 09:07:36 PM
So far the groups in a settlement called hunts brook. From there I'm not sure where were heading.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on August 29, 2014, 09:58:51 PM
I think I only have one more round of question before I try to hammer out which mantles and powers I want/need.

What method are we using to regain lost psicrystals, if any?
Enspell Familiar (Dragon Compendium 97) increases the range of shared spells to a mile. I am working under the assumption that includes duration effects. I was wondering if it could get the same treatment as Share Soulmeld, that is, to include other forms of 'bound' companions. Or perhaps a psionic version.
Erudite's exception (Complete Psionics 154) section uses the word 'gains', that means that regardless of my other levels, as long as I don't level up another class, I can gain new powers?
Are mantle powers & already converted spells considered discipline powers?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on September 02, 2014, 07:59:12 AM
Alright, mostly settled in from the move this weekend, now. Once Rikimaru decides to meet me or another PC, we can jump to the following morning for me. Anyone's thoughts on going back to the swamp? Or should we strike out to one of the other locations? Getting paid would be good, after all.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 02, 2014, 12:22:05 PM
Why are none of the new pcs lesser mechanitrixes? :D
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on September 02, 2014, 01:08:46 PM
Correction, may take another day or so to be able to post. Just had the septic system (which landlords just pumped this morning because it was full and we couldn't use it since Sunday night), backflow up into the house. Depending on how long it takes to run damage control after they get here to fix it, it may be a day or two before I can start responding again.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 03, 2014, 12:33:02 PM
Getting paid would be good, after all.

Did you want to look for work, or roam around looking for adventure/treasure?


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 03, 2014, 01:28:37 PM
What method are we using to regain lost psicrystals, if any?

I've been thinking about this since you posted your question. A psicrystal doesn't represent quite the same level of investment that a familiar does -- there's no component cost, and no experience loss associated with its destruction. I'm inclined to say that replacing a psicrystal would be comparable to the meditation/ceremony necessary to replace an animal companion.

Does this sound fair?

Enspell Familiar (Dragon Compendium 97) increases the range of shared spells to a mile. I am working under the assumption that includes duration effects. I was wondering if it could get the same treatment as Share Soulmeld, that is, to include other forms of 'bound' companions. Or perhaps a psionic version.

I'll need more information but off-hand the use will probably be fine -- was this something you were hoping to take at 1st level? I may need to overrule this once I actually see the feat, but I'm open to the possibility of using it.

Erudite's exception (Complete Psionics 154) section uses the word 'gains', that means that regardless of my other levels, as long as I don't level up another class, I can gain new powers?

Okay, this one's complicated. I'm not sure exactly what the question you're asking is, so I'm going to reply generally based on what I read in the book. An Erudite gains two powers per Erudite level.

An Erudite can gain additional powers by "learning" them from other psychics. If an Erudite ever advances another psychic class up to, or in excess of, his Erudite levels -- he loses the ability to learn new powers from other psychics.

It sounds a bit like a "code of conduction" or "multiclassing restriction" effect to me.

Are mantle powers & already converted spells considered discipline powers?

I think to be considered a discipline power, a power must be listed in its discipline. If you get a power from multiple sources, I think you choose the one that's most beneficial to you for the purpose of dependent effects. I might need to look into this more, I'm not sure what the relevance is.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 03, 2014, 02:11:41 PM
Does this sound fair?
It sounds perfect.
Quote
I'll need more information but off-hand the use will probably be fine -- was this something you were hoping to take at 1st level? I may need to overrule this once I actually see the feat, but I'm open to the possibility of using it.
It was going to be a little later, probably level four. Here is a quote from the book:
(click to show/hide)

Quote
It sounds a bit like a "code of conduction" or "multiclassing restriction" effect to me.
That is what I thought, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

Quote
I think to be considered a discipline power, a power must be listed in its discipline. If you get a power from multiple sources, I think you choose the one that's most beneficial to you for the purpose of dependent effects. I might need to look into this more, I'm not sure what the relevance is.
Discipline powers require you to be able to manifest a power at least one level higher than it to learn. So, to learn Astral Construct from a Shaper, an Erudite would need to be able to manifest a level two power.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on September 04, 2014, 09:54:11 AM
Getting paid would be good, after all.

Did you want to look for work, or roam around looking for adventure/treasure?


--Dither

I'm fine with contracting myself out for adventuring services, but I'm also fine with going out and hunting treasure. Depends on what I find, probably, before morning. I assume you'll want a Gather Info check?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 04, 2014, 10:56:24 AM
I'm fine with contracting myself out for adventuring services, but I'm also fine with going out and hunting treasure.

Depends on what I find, probably, before morning. I assume you'll want a Gather Info check?

Nah. Work is easy enough to come by, you just have to make some kind of declaration or assertion that you WANT to look for work, and maybe an idea of what you'd be willing or interested in doing. I might call for Gather Information if you were trying to do something hard. :)

Everyone needs adventurers.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Super Steve on September 04, 2014, 05:20:51 PM
Dither asked me to post here, so here am I. I'm completely lost about this Play by Forum thing, so I'd appreciate if you guys pointed out any mistakes I make.
And I'm not completely sure about my character sheet, so if there's anything wrong with that, tell me.

Now, about the game: what am I gonna do? Is there going to be another group, or what?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 04, 2014, 06:10:17 PM
And I'm not completely sure about my character sheet, so if there's anything wrong with that, tell me.
Now, about the game: what am I gonna do? Is there going to be another group, or what?

A quick glance over the character sheet looks fine. I'll look at it more in-depth later. Good to have someone who can shoot on the team. ;)

Generally speaking, you can form a group or strike out on your own. Obviously if you go somewhere by yourself, your chances of getting ganked are significantly higher. Post in a game thread whenever you want to do something, talk to somebody, hire some mercenaries, or go somewhere.

[Game] threads are little microcosms -- "instances" if you prefer -- and whenever a PC travels to a particular region or zone, a new thread begins in that area. This is partly to keep threads shorter, to ensure players can read/catch up easily.

You can reference old threads if you want an idea of what's happened there before, and what kind of stories are told about the place, but once all the PCs leave an area, it undergoes a dynamic shift in which the power groups (monsters, NPCs, etc) will move around. Some things will be reset like traps, guards may be replaced, or depending on how badly damaged a group was by the PCs, they may abandon the place or be wiped out/enslaved by a new one.

For example, if the party had attacked and slain many of the "bluebeard lizardfolk" during the excursion to the Shockrise Fens, the surviving lizardfolk might have been enslaved/animated by a necromancer who came along after the party left.

Also, you're welcome to declare each other as rivals or enemies and attack each other -- the only thing I require is that all participating PCs consent. A good blood feud might be entertaining, you could start by recruiting NPCs to different sides. A little PVP can be good to work off the tension now and again.

I don't particularly care about your characters, and will look for opportunities when you're alone or doing something foolish to gank you. If you decide to work together to tackle some of the more dangerous foes, the rewards will be very good. Since you level up by investing gold in training -- instead of killing monsters -- you can play an honest-to-goodness pacifist. Also, it means YOU (the players) control the pace of the game. Don't think you're leveling fast enough? Seek out more dangerous stuff.

You can also play a rogue-ninja-thief and go around robbing all the NPCs. Leave a calling card, and you'll maybe get a bounty on your head. Could be fun, who knows? I don't have a story to tell -- which isn't to say that there isn't a story, only that I'm not going to force it down your throat. There's a story behind each of the locations that exists -- Shockrise, Bittermarsh, Hunt's Brook, and Goldburn -- and if you want to explore them and find it, it's available to you.

You can also go on a full-blown murder-hobo rage of destruction.

If you guys wanted to, you could (try to) kill every last NPC here in Hunt's Brook.

I mean it. I would even make a new frontier town for you to slaughter. If you want.

If you ask me for something, I will endeavor to include it.

If someone told me they wanted to find the Book of Vile Darkness (or the Orbs of Dragonkind, or the Hand and Eye of Vecna, whatever), then I would give them the opportunity to follow rumors to its location. And I really mean that.

If someone wants to travel to the Abyss ... right now ... they could summon Pazuzu (Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu) and wish to go the Abyss. Right. Now.

Or you know, whatever. Just bear in mind -- the consequences -- of such actions. Yes, you CAN summon the demon lord by chanting his name three times... but what ELSE are you going to bring down on your head? Chances are it will be spectacular -- and most likely brief.

You know. Demons. :devil


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 11:42:38 AM
RE: Sohala
*slow clap*

8 extra hit points at 1st level? That's really impressive. :eh

It took me a minute to figure it out, but that's some really good thinking there.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 01:10:16 PM
RE: Game Difficulty
I've been thinking about this over the last week or so.

I want to run a really hardcore game but I get the feeling that I scared everyone away.

Obviously, there's no game if everyone is too afraid to adventure -- and let me tell you, with all the allowances I've made for character generation, it's really disappointing that everyone is so attached to PCs that honestly haven't done much yet.

I blame point-buy.

*clears throat*

In the interest of everyone... actually participating... in the game. And not being terrified of adventuring. Despite having virtually no restrictions or limitations to deal with... and there are like 5-8 of you, and only one of me (honestly, you'd think you guys would collaborate more freely)...

I will dial back the danger in all zones...

*sigh*

...I guess.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 05, 2014, 03:13:02 PM
Okay, I think I got everything done for my sheet. I would like four mercs to come with me, two warriors and two adepts, all dwarves. I am not sure how you are doing stats/gear for them, but I have listed some. In addition to that, I would like each to have a dwarven brewmaker and a seemingly endless supply of materials to brew with; purely for flavor, of course.

Warriors - 12, 10, 15, 8, 11, 7, Battle Axe, Heavy Wood Shield, Scale Mail
Adepts - 10, 12, 15, 8, 11,7, Light Crossbow, Spear, Padded Armor
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 03:19:37 PM
Warriors - 12, 10, 15, 8, 11, 7, Battle Axe, Heavy Wood Shield, Scale Mail
Adepts - 10, 12, 15, 8, 11,7, Light Crossbow, Spear, Padded Armor

Those stats and that equipment looks fine to me. (Are they... 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8 plus racial bonuses?) Adepts will start with 10 bolts each until you buy more for them.

What kind of orders do they have? Do you have a marching order in mind?

Edit: I assume a dwarven brewmaster is some kind of kit for brewing beer? Sounds good to me. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 05, 2014, 04:02:24 PM
I did array their stats and applied racials.

W|-|W
-|M|-
A|-|A

Unless it appears we have at least a 2 to 1, advantage the warriors never charge (exposed casters being an exception, they will try to engage those in melee, during combat, unless otherwise ordered). The adepts hang back and take shots with their crossbows, swapping to their spears if they feel they are going to be engaged in melee. The heals are intended for stabilizing, obscuring mist is for defense vs ranged or retreating, bless is an ordered casting.

Prepared spells
0: Cure minor wounds, detect magic, read magic
1: Bless

0: Cure minor wounds, detect magic, create water
1: Obscuring mist

Those sort of orders?

The dwarven brewmaker is from A&EG 21, a perfect companion for the dwarf on the go.

Added six extra sets of bolts to the purchase list.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 04:15:03 PM
Those sort of orders?
[...]
Added six extra sets of bolts to the purchase list.

Yup! And... got it. :cheers

Well done. Now... let's see if we can rouse our other players to action...

I think if no one shows initiative here, we'll assume the night has passed and move on starting Monday morning.

(My posting ability is limited on the weekend. Usually because I'm sleeping or tearing after my one-year-old.)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 05, 2014, 07:55:22 PM
Sarellis "Seymour" Evertras (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14359.msg255757#msg255757) at thy command.

Please inspect this before I post in a game thread.

I'm interested in adventuring with partymates, preferably into the Goldburn Mines.  If those crystals resonate with planar resonance, that may mean a portal to Sigil is near!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 09:20:42 PM
Please inspect this before I post in a game thread.

- Just noticing, it looks like you chose to specialize instead of going Elf Generalist?
- Wai no item creation? D:>
- Are those n/50-charged wands indicating the number of remaining charges?

I just started reading the 1e Guide to Immortals, which discusses the planes and multiverse in greater depth than any 3e book I've ever read, so I'm ready for whatever extraplanar shenanigans we get up to.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 05, 2014, 09:28:23 PM
Can I ask for some spoilers to break it up a little?

Also, what is starting gold? I thought I saw 100 (or default kit) in the original thread, but I keep noticing other amounts on sheets.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 05, 2014, 10:54:23 PM
I went specialist due to Abrupt Jaunt.  The party seems to need crowd control and buffs.  I also wasn't sure if you were OK with the Gray Elf Generalist Domain Wizard5/Mindbender1/IncantatrixX/etc.  If that's in, I may post another build for Seymour the Generalist (but only play one PC at a time).

Seymour starts with no item creation feats but uses his Mercantile Background feat for a 25% discount on purchased items, and he uses magecraft to get a total of +10 on all Craft checks for a total of 20 when taking 10.  Mercantile Background also gives me +300G for starting wealth.

The wands show the number of remaining charges out of 50 (the normal max for wands).  Thus, if something has 2/50 charges, it has 2 charges remaining.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 05, 2014, 11:06:59 PM
Seymour starts with no item creation feats but uses his Mercantile Background feat for a 25% discount on purchased items, and he uses magecraft to get a total of +10 on all Craft checks for a total of 20 when taking 10.  Mercantile Background also gives me +300G for starting wealth.
But, you are an elf.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 11:31:51 PM
Seymour starts with no item creation feats but uses his Mercantile Background feat for a 25% discount on purchased items, and he uses magecraft to get a total of +10 on all Craft checks for a total of 20 when taking 10.  Mercantile Background also gives me +300G for starting wealth.
But, you are an elf.

Huh. I missed that. Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling, or Human.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 05, 2014, 11:33:39 PM
I asked regarding Mercantile Background and ignoring the racial prereqs for that.  I assumed mercantile was a broad enough subject that any race could qualify.  You've already allowed homebrew with the Scholar martial adept - may I keep Mercantile Background?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 05, 2014, 11:41:12 PM
I asked regarding Mercantile Background and ignoring the racial prereqs for that.  I assumed mercantile was a broad enough subject that any race could qualify.  You've already allowed homebrew with the Scholar martial adept - may I keep Mercantile Background?

You asked about a lot of stuff. You can keep the feat. I glanced over it and saw "blah, blah, Forgotten Realms region, blah, blah." I totally missed the stuff in between the parentheses. :rolleyes

I think the homebrew PCs have dropped/died (so, moot) but I'm not going to press the issue.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 06, 2014, 12:00:48 AM
Thankee!

Which other player-run characters are the most active?  Am I best off making my own mini-party with hirelings and animals?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 06, 2014, 02:07:15 AM
I just started reading the 1e Guide to Immortals, which discusses the planes and multiverse in greater depth than any 3e book I've ever read, so I'm ready for whatever extraplanar shenanigans we get up to.
Is it a good read?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 08, 2014, 10:57:23 AM
I just started reading the 1e Guide to Immortals, which discusses the planes and multiverse in greater depth than any 3e book I've ever read, so I'm ready for whatever extraplanar shenanigans we get up to.

Is it a good read?

I'm enjoying it so far -- you can see the foundations for the D&D multiverse taking shape. Things like the Far Realm and Abominations have their start here.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 08, 2014, 02:52:21 PM
I'm interested in adventuring with partymates, preferably into the Goldburn Mines.  If those crystals resonate with planar resonance, that may mean a portal to Sigil is near!
Grabbed a couple mercs and we can go see what there is to see.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 08, 2014, 03:30:00 PM
Sohala: Let's do it!

I have 3 mules, though only one for riding purposes.  The other have pack saddles.  I planned to walk or ride in the middle of the dwarven formation, alongside or behind you.

Where would we meet?

If a fight breaks out, expect me to use enlarge person on you or the most beneficial target.

Once we arrive at the mines, I plan to use silent image to make ghosts that come out of the floors, walls, and ceiling to make the place seem haunted.  That will soften the resistance with a minimum of violence, and may even drive the mine's guards and leaders away!

I am also a Knowledge expert.  Consult me about whatever you don't understand.  Furthermore, I'm a Craft expert.  Consult me on whatever mundane gear you want made and provide enough materials (including cash) to create such things and I can make them.

Dither:  How far and long is it to reach the Goldburn Mines from here?  What else should we know about this journey or/and the destination?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 08, 2014, 07:18:44 PM
If the threads are any indication, you might need a couple fighting bodies yourself, and it looks like we will be dropped in the middle of the action upon request.

The melee dwarves will probably do more damage with enlarge, unless one of your merc(s) make a better target. I also have expansion.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 08, 2014, 07:42:44 PM
For your hirelings, what about starting them with Combat Reflexes or/and Improved Initiative, giving them a reach weapon, and giving the Adepts 12 WIS for a bonus spell slot?

And we'll probably need rope.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 08, 2014, 09:25:21 PM
Well dam... shows I am out of practice, I thought it was 14 for the first level bonus spell, going to need to give them another glance... Just swap the adepts CON and WIS. Want another set of heals, or did you have something else in mind?

Feat wise, I wasn't sure if I was allowed to select their feats.

Equipment, I was just suiting up some dwarves, reach weapons never seem dwarfy enough to me, unless they are defending with them. Did you have a suggestion?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 08, 2014, 10:07:44 PM
I planned to get a 4-pack of Half-Orc Adepts with Longspears and Gauntlets for reach and up-close attacking, respectively.  For armor, give 'em leather armor since it's light and they can spend their starting skill points (cross-class) for Tumblin'.  The Spear simple weapon from d20srd.org is a 2-handed NON-reach weapon.  The 20' range increment is for throwing purposes.

Combat Reflexes is an ace feat in this case.  It allows people to make AoO while flat-footed, and gives them an extra AoO per round per point of DEX bonus!  On a hireling with 12 DEX, that's one extra attack per turn at full BAB!  Wowzas!  If you were going Human, I'd also advise Improved Initiative since he who goes first gets a turn.

For all Adepts, just give 'em cure minor wounds for all their level 0 slots.  I can handle the read magic and detect magic.  Everyone should have a cure light wounds prepared, but having two prepare bless, another have obscuring mist, and another protection from evil (just in case we need to tank Undead or something) will help.

Everyone also needs a Light Crossbow and some bolts.  You have that part handy.

I hearby dub our party The Fellowship of the Hirelings.  Whee!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 08, 2014, 11:47:41 PM
I'll officially update my inventory later, but assume I take away 1 adamantine bolt and get back about 30G.

That way I should be able to afford the weekly rates of 4 Adepts as described above (at least 1 Tumble rank, Combat Reflexes, etc.) to aid us.

My party's marching order is thus:

(A = Adept
S = Seymour on Mule
M = Mule
| = Empty space

Our formation is 15' wide.)

A M A
| S |
A M A

Having a Marshal1/Bard1 with the Motivate Dexterity Aura and Dragonfire Inspiration would rock so much face right now.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 01:17:22 AM
You make some great points... must change things.

I have 100ft of rope, anything else we need?

I put a copy of these stat blocks into my sheet as well:

(click to show/hide)

Lucerne Hammers are from A&EG, they are martial reach weapons.

Also, on reviewing Hidden Talent, I noticed it isn't psionic... so lowered Mort's health by two.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 11:27:48 AM
Hidden Talent is kind of outlandish for NPC hirelings. Lucerne hammers are okay, if only because they're equipment and you could opt to outfit themselves. While I don't want to personally build and outfit every NPC myself, I would prefer that any and all feats/skills are PHB -- unless of course hired from an affiliation that trains/recruits characters with notable feats.

When in doubt, err on the side of "boring but practical." Toughness, if need be. :p

edit: The idea we're going for is that PCs are all fantastic and amazing and special because they're optimized and can be built from virtually any book under the sun -- and NPCs are just... not. They aren't optimized. They aren't special. Unless you've taken the time to track down a group (or form your own), the NPCs you encounter will just be normal... people.

They've never even heard of this weird god you pray to... Minaxing or Mimaxing or whatever. ;)


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 09, 2014, 02:10:38 PM
Sohala: What other supplies do you expect to need?  Consider the Haversack Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?148101-3-x-Shax-s-Indispensible-Haversack-(Equipment-Handbook)).  For the sake of getting to the game sooner, and because the mundane supplies rarely come up, I vote we not dwell on it.

Four possible exceptions:  Getting more rope for tying up the mules or securing prisoners/bodies/swag on our mules.  Second, containers of alcohol for intoxicating others during negotiation AND because booze is flammable.  Third, a reliable means of lighting fires that does not require expending spell slots.  (Adepts get burning hands as a level 1 spell.)  Fourth, mounts and saddles are possibilities, but are probably too expensive at present.  You could have me make, say, some saddles for 1/3 cost.

Dither: The way you set up this campaign sounds like a very good start for a Roguelike game with a persistent tech tree.  People adventure, and are able to hire hirelings (which are upgradable in terms of class/special abilities/equipment/etc.) and unlock new classes/abilities for themselves.  It's kinda like Rogue Legacy in its persistence and tech tree, but much more robust.  I likey!

Regarding my hirelings, their NPC Array stats are thus, after Half-Orc adjustments:
13 STR, 13 DEX, 10 CON, 7 INT, 12 WIS, 6 CHA.

If I can instead use a 15 point buy (which is approximately equivalent, but slightly more optimized) their stats would be:
15 STR, 12 DEX, 10 CON, 6 INT, 12 WIS, 6 CHA.

For formation purposes, the Adepts in front are normally wielding their longspears while the Adepts in the back rank are using their light crossbows.  The mules are quite able to attack in immediate melee as well.  Unless doing so would be unwise in your ruleset, I assume my crew (including myself) always has its light crossbows loaded with normal ammo when out of combat.

How important is it to track food, water, etc. considering we can take 10 on Survival checks and get what we need?

When do we set off for the Goldburn Mine?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 02:40:46 PM
Dither: The way you set up this campaign sounds like a very good start for a Roguelike game with a persistent tech tree.  People adventure, and are able to hire hirelings (which are upgradable in terms of class/special abilities/equipment/etc.) and unlock new classes/abilities for themselves.  It's kinda like Rogue Legacy in its persistence and tech tree, but much more robust.  I likey!

Thanks. :D

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Rogue was an early attempt to create a D&D PC game. See also: Ultima, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, ... and much later, The Elder Scrolls.

Really, I'm trying not to say "no" when you guys want to do things, but instead say "not right now." You can do pretty much anything you want to -- hire a bunch of dwarves and "Dig Too Deep," so as to break into and eventually colonize Hell -- you just have to be willing to work for it.

PCs can be pretty much anything you want, but always start at 1st level and represent outstanding individuals. You can "populate" the setting with more freaks like yourselves if you're willing to take the appropriate steps to do so.

I've actually been musing over what to do if someone decides to play an evil Cleric and raise a skeleton army. Kind of a shame so many players opted for Druid though, Druids tend to be an insular lot. Sure, you can breed armies of animals and Awaken them to have someone to talk with, but Animate Dead is 3rd/4th level and Awaken is 5th level. Just saying.

How important is it to track food, water, etc. considering we can take 10 on Survival checks and get what we need?

Generally, I'm not worried about so much detail but I'll give an example of when it becomes relevant:
- If you force march or otherwise try to travel more than the recommended amount.
- If you try to multitask, e.g. craft items/cast spells while traveling.
- If you travel through terrain which is hostile to life, e.g. extreme environments like desert and glacier.
- Similarly, if weather conditions become bad it may become relevant to know your supplies.

If you aren't in a hurry, these things aren't as important to me. It's mostly when you try to do things too quickly or if you try to do too much simultaneously that I'll want to check to make sure everything is in order.

BTW, let me know if you decide to heal the half-orcs, otherwise they'll just continue to recover 1 hp per day.

When do we set off for the Goldburn Mine?

I'm not going to push the game along unless prompted, the whole idea is to allow the party to set the pace of the game. That's why I put the players in charge of when they level up (by spending gold instead of waiting for me to give XP from encounters) -- and in my promise to you that every challenge has treasure appropriate to the challenge, rather than your level.

For example, if you guys have the balls to go after a dragon, the dragon will have a hoard appropriate to its CR/level. I can't guarantee a fight with the dragon will be appropriate to your level, but you guys wanted to tangle with a dragon to begin with.

Mostly, I'm looking for declarative actions/statements. E.g. "we're going to the Goldburn Mine." "We're going goblin-hunting in the Goldburn foothills." "We're going East to see what we will find." "I'm asking around town for treasure maps."

...
Finally, always remember the name of the game: Everything Trying To Kill You.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 03:28:01 PM
Oh fine... can't blame me for trying. Toughness it is then, I want them alive to be able to heal people. With the loss of a CHA requirement,  new stats!

10, 13, 13, 8, 12, 7

I glanced at that list, but it seems better suited to slightly higher levels... but I did forget pitons.

Quote
I've actually been musing over what to do if someone decides to play an evil Cleric and raise a skeleton army.
Oh, that is one of my back up plans! I always dabble in the undead... never played a character focused on it.  :)

I think with that, I am ready for the mines.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 09, 2014, 03:29:19 PM
Quote
I've actually been musing over what to do if someone decides to play an evil Cleric and raise a skeleton army.
Oh, that is one of my back up plans! I always dabble in the undead... never played a character focused on it.  :)

I think with that, I am ready for the mines.
It's a lot cheaper to "charm" all the animals as a druid using Wild Empathy. That onyx adds up. ;)

Edit: I have 12 goodberries which heal 1 point each (and he's going to save one for someone else to force-feed him if he gets dropped... ). You guys divide them up however you want. I also have 3 prepped Cure Minor Wounds, but we might want to save 1 or 2 of those for emergencies.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 09, 2014, 03:57:59 PM
Regarding my minions, I agree with Xykon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0192.html).  I'm not opposed to their continued survival, but I treat them like valuable popsicles:  Juicy and sweet while they last, and if they last longer than I expected, wonderful!  Alleluiah either way!

Sohala: Finish setting up your stuff and let's depart for the Goldburn Mines at once to clear 'em out and perhaps haunt them along the way!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 03:58:14 PM
It's a lot cheaper to "charm" all the animals as a druid using Wild Empathy. That onyx adds up. ;)

Psh, the onyx may add up but those undead will obey your commands. Have fun making opposed Charisma checks to convince a herd of animals to leave their homes and follow you on an adventure. Wait, no... opposed Charisma checks are if you actually charm the subject.

You've got to do something else if you're just using skills to convince them to follow you around. Probably offer them food, water, and shelter or something. Like hirelings, but animals. You might have to promise them all sorts of things. (http://youtu.be/WC6TrXWG1w8?t=1m36s) (Assuming you can communicate with them simply and effectively.)

I have 12 goodberries which heal 1 point each (and he's going to save one for someone else to force-feed him if he gets dropped... ). You guys divide them up however you want. I also have 3 prepped Cure Minor Wounds, but we might want to save 1 or 2 of those for emergencies.

The half-orcs are very much appreciative.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 04:17:52 PM
Sohala: Finish setting up your stuff and let's depart for the Goldburn Mines at once to clear 'em out and perhaps haunt them along the way!
I think with that, I am ready for the mines.
I thought I did... :tongue

Undead minion discussion: Dual casting and control limits, is that pool based off the casting of the spell, each class has its own pool, or a pool based off combined caster levels?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 09, 2014, 04:18:56 PM
Dither: Scar sounds a lot like Teryn Logain and Jon Irenicus, but is a different actor.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 04:23:10 PM
Dither: Scar sounds a lot like Teryn Logain and Jon Irenicus, but is a different actor.

Jeremy Irons sings most of the song. Jim Cummings fills in for the end. Particularly the laugh. :devil

edit: ...Was the song not the original Disney version? I didn't examine it that closely (don't have speakers/headphones ATM).

edit 2: Yeah, it was the original version. I was worried there for a bit, that it was some fan-dub over the song. :p


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 04:48:31 PM
The new thread is up as soon as the party is ready to move.

[Game] 2.01 - Goldburn Mine (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14618.0)

The number '2.01' reflects the visit - '2' - and the level of the dungeon/instance - '01.'

I've updated the campaign map (and moved some stuff around to fit) and added stuff to the campaign's "canon." There haven't really been any requests for content yet, but if there's stuff you guys want to see -- put it in that thread. Also, if there's anything you think is important that I haven't added to the game's canon, make sure you bring it up.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 09, 2014, 05:07:42 PM
Thanks, dither, for clarifying what the [X.YZ] tag meant!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 07:22:50 PM
Will you be doing the replies for the hirelings and such, or is that on us?

Also, where did this druid come from? I thought you were going to play with goblins.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 09, 2014, 07:30:07 PM
I'm actually not sure if everyone intends to go to Goldburn, or if some are going after the goblins while the rest raid the mine.

I'm open to either possibility (or others...?).


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 07:55:27 PM
I am not opposed, I was just thought the goblins were getting their skulls caved in.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 09, 2014, 08:14:01 PM
I updated the Character Builds thread with dashboards for my posse.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 09, 2014, 08:43:56 PM
Completely forgot to ask, psicrystals and feats, how are we treating that in this game?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 10, 2014, 02:36:03 PM
Completely forgot to ask, psicrystals and feats, how are we treating that in this game?

Let's say for the time being that the psicrystal begins play with Alertness (as described in its monster entry), but that after creation it can be retrained for something else. Now, the psicrystal class feature/advancement notes that its owner gains the Alertness feat and this won't change -- just the psicrystal wouldn't benefit from it anymore.

Choosing feats for a psicrystal as it advances though...

...Let's go ahead and extend this to all NPC companions, animals, and so on -- the current generation will be grandfathered in without changes, so this affects future familiars, companions, summons, and so forth -- my preference is for PHB feats, or monster (MM) feats to take priority. Followed by that, feats from the source the creature or companion is derived from (Incarnum for soul-things, XPH for psi-things, etc.).

This will use the same basic rules and guidelines as retraining -- one kind of change at a time (change skills OR feats OR class features), and typically during level advancement. So for the case of the psicrystal, the most obvious time for this to happen would be when your PC levels up.

...But getting back to choosing feats as the familiar/companion advances...

The best rule I can think to apply in this case is based on Handle Animal. If you wish to forgo the immediate acquisition of a feat for your companion -- say you hit 3rd level and you want to give you psicrystal a feat that doesn't suck, or that appears in a source that's above and beyond the PHB/MM/XPH/CPsi -- you can take a week to teach it... I don't know, something bizarre out of Tome of Battle. (If it qualifies, right?)

Does all of this make sense?

Now one of the things that I really, really need to point out is that outside of the immediate dungeon setting -- I don't really care about the passage of time. You guys can totally be in control of that. Hyper time dilation or whatever.

All I want to see is someone say, "I'm going to take a week to train my psicrystal how to lead a charge, White Raven-style! Who's with me?"

And then, barring any bizarre action necessary to do so -- you can then go right ahead with it.

I'm not necessarily trying to reconcile everyone's personal time-line or anything. You just have to be willing to break down the actions into their component parts and describe to me what's going on. You can get all timey-wimey if you have to. This is the Internet. Anything is possible.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 10, 2014, 02:40:03 PM
All of that said, you also have to be willing to accept the consequences for staying in one place for so long.

If you've made enemies who want you dead really bad, and you decide to squat in the open teaching a hundred dogs how to do tricks ... your enemies will probably find you pretty quickly.

But that... is what makes this game fun. So if you have a problem with that... you signed up for the wrong game.

If you don't make some enemies, you're doing it wrong.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 10, 2014, 03:27:51 PM
Dither: Or you're doing it very right because you can persuade doors to open for you just by being in their presence.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 10, 2014, 03:39:35 PM
Dither: Or you're doing it very right because you can persuade doors to open for you just by being in their presence.

Someone is going to be pissed off at whoever opened the door. :eh

Some people want the doors to stay closed. :shakefist

And if not people, then monsters. And if not monsters, then deities.

There is a veritable menagerie of things just looking to be pissed off. :sparta


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 16, 2014, 02:33:41 AM
Just checkin' in on the status of dither and company.  Going this long without an update feels weird.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 16, 2014, 10:21:28 AM
Oh man, I thought I was waiting on you. I didn't realize I'd missed an update.

I'll get right on that. :blush


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 16, 2014, 01:28:05 PM
Thankee!

Do let me know if you need more info before proceeding.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Rikimaru on September 16, 2014, 09:23:08 PM
Due to the unfortunate circumstance of no internet access I will be withdrawing from the game presently, if anything changes I'll inform you later.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 17, 2014, 11:06:08 AM
My character is hiding like the coward he is (survival strategy when Everything is Trying to Kill You :P ).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 17, 2014, 11:15:17 AM
My work has finally decided to address the network issues we've been having the last couple months, so my connectivity is severely limited.

*sigh* Nothing like trying to fix a problem to utterly break things.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 19, 2014, 06:33:00 PM
Dither: A workaround for your network problems: Take a screenshot/picture of the text, save it to a USB drive/your email, and when you have some spare moments at work, write your reply in a file (Word doc, Wordpad file, Notepad file, etc.) and save it on your phone/USB drive.  Do the actual network-requiring things at home or a restaurant or some other place with Internet access.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 24, 2014, 10:46:44 AM
I'm a little sad that I've only just now noticed this game. And you have more than 10 players. Oh well, I'm watching anyways.

[edit]And now I just noticed the 'always accepting' add. Nice. I'm going to have a few build questions, but those can wait while I trawl the old stuff.

[edit 2] I think this might be an interesting opportunity to dust off an old build of mine (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1444.135;wap2), leavened with some ToB goodness. The build (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1020186) is done, I just need to break down equipment (armor decisions are tough when you've only got 100gp).

I'll probably be polished by tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 24, 2014, 12:54:19 PM
Greetings, Frogman, and welcome to our game!

Sohala and I and our respective hirelings are exploring the Goldburn Mine, here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14618.0).  We'd welcome helpful company.

If you're very into the notion of a martial adept, consider my homebrew martial discipline revisions and expansions (http://antioch.snow-fall.com/files/members/Endarire/DnD/Greg%20Campbell%27s%20Revised%20D%26D%203.5%20Martial%20Disciplines%20for%20Public%20Distribution%2012%2014%2012.zip).  Get dither's permission before using stuff though just to be sure.  The Unquiet Twilight discipline focuses on debuffing, life stealing, and being Undead- and Vampire-like.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 24, 2014, 01:16:38 PM
Greetings, Frogman, and welcome to our game!

Sohala and I and our respective hirelings are exploring the Goldburn Mine, here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=14618.0).  We'd welcome helpful company.

If you're very into the notion of a martial adept, consider my homebrew martial discipline revisions and expansions (http://antioch.snow-fall.com/files/members/Endarire/DnD/Greg%20Campbell%27s%20Revised%20D%26D%203.5%20Martial%20Disciplines%20for%20Public%20Distribution%2012%2014%2012.zip).  Get dither's permission before using stuff though just to be sure.  The Unquiet Twilight discipline focuses on debuffing, life stealing, and being Undead- and Vampire-like.
I'll check it out. More cha-synnergy would be great, though to be honest if I'm really going to try and sell some non standard material I'd rather push a hexblade fix. :) But I'm honestly happy with things. My only problem with the crusader is his stance progression, and given that I'm planning on 4 levels of hexblade before I ever come back, well, that fixes the progression.

It also looks like your mini-party could use a front-liner, which is good. It appears that a hand-waved arrival is appropriate?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 24, 2014, 03:06:09 PM
Regarding my revised martial adepts and martial disciplines, look at the Crusader.  I revised him (and all martial classes) to get a new stance at the same level a new level of stances is available.  My martial adepts can also swap all of their stances and maneuvers known on a daily basis, like how a Cleric swaps his prepared spells.  When I was revising the Crusader and the Unquiet Twilight discipline, I thought of the Crusader using this discipline as a pseudo-Hexblade.  (Unquiet Twilight stuff has CHA-based DCs.)

Your appearance, however wavey, would help.

Note that Sohala and I each have hirelings to handle most the muscle work.  I have 4 Half-Orc Adepts for healing, buffing, and melee.  Sohala has two Half-Orc or Dwarf (not sure which) Adepts, two Warriors, and one Dwarven Brewmaster.  If phaedrusxy joins us, he'll be our Gnome Druid for melee/heals/spells.

Regarding being a Hexblade or/and Crusader, we'd quite appreciate the Martial Spirit and 'heal us as you kill them' approach.

Regarding other characters: At present, a bunch of people have left the game or stopped playing for an indefinite/long time.  These are the current unofficial groups:

-Super Steve and McPoyo.  They're going for goblin bounties.
-Endarire and Sohala.  We're going for the Goldburn Mine which is a seemingly abandoned mine with a Salamander guarding it.  There are crystals that resonate with planar resonance.  A portal to Sigil, the hub of the planes, may be there.
-phaedrusxy.  He's in the Goldburn Mine instance.  We aren't sure yet of his loyalties in character.

The expedition of Sohala, me, and our hireling posse is to get rich, get extraplanar, and make an extraplanar empire.  We need money for that - lots of it.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 24, 2014, 05:28:06 PM
I think your group is a good fit.

I'm planning on Crusader 1 - Hexblade 4, then straight crusader. Maybe a dip into fighter if I decide I need more feats.

Anyways, expect some more concrete posts tomorrow.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 24, 2014, 10:09:27 PM
OK.  Remember, you can take flaws, but expect the GM to exploit these flaws.  Murky-Eyed is just asking for dither to ambush us, though other flaws are probably more 'tame.'  For Seymour, I went with Noncombatant and Vulnerable since I don't plan to melee and I'm willing to trade 1 AC (including touch AC) for my INT bonus to HP per HD.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 24, 2014, 10:11:27 PM
Also regarding your build, do you plan to go Jade Phoenix Mage to progress maneuvers and spells?  You may need to tweak your build or get GM permission to 'handwave' you in with just 4 Hexblade levels, but that seems spiffy... and also many levels from now.

I'm also curious what sort of combatant you planned to make.  I'm a fan of reach/trip Crusaders.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on September 25, 2014, 02:33:48 AM
All dwarves and all of them can brew.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 25, 2014, 09:41:52 AM
Oooh, flaws. I thought I had read in one of the adds that he didn't like them.

Basically, while he's just a crusader now, I'm planning on putting together a debuffer build that I've designed before (Curse + Dark Companion + Intimidation + Entangling exhalation = Win. Or lose, depending on your perspective). After that, crusader is pretty effective with almost any feat combination.

I'm tempted to combine him with a odd-duck build I put together once, built around the Pincer Staff (from one of the underdark books, I don't recall precisely which at the moment). It's a tad feat intensive - you need an exotic proficiency, and really aught to have some grapple feats too. But grappling at reach can be really, really fun; and if grappling isn't reasonable then the crusader is more than capable of just thwacking things.

I'm not planning on JPM, not really. I am looking at some of elf sub-races though, because Eternal Blade is cool.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 25, 2014, 10:59:04 AM
Consider Savage Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) for it is cool.

Alternatively, don't worry about going Eternal Blade on your first character.  The Savage Aasimar linked to in that Drow article is also spiffy for 0 LA.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 25, 2014, 11:10:16 AM
Actually, wild elf is a good fit. Given that I'm swapping for Dragonborn once I've got the cash, I'm really only caring about the stat adjustments and type, at this point. :) I'd hate to waste time with a savage progression when I'm just going to swap out everything.

Anyways, I've got a character up and ready to go. I forget how tight 100gp is at first level. I've got 3 gp left over and very little mundane equipment other than food and light. Oh well, we can go kill some dwarves.

Is it safe to assume that Scales is in the center of your frontline, between those two mercs? It appears that Dither doesn't mind hand-waved entrances, especially given that there hasn't been any fighting yet.

A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

It would be considerably easier if I could run a lawful evil dragonborn of Tiamat (or equivalent dragon-goddess). If not, I'll just have to grab a Phylactery of Faithfulness as soon as possible.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 25, 2014, 11:31:24 AM
Half-elves also count as elves, and avoid the con penalty. If you're thinking of dipping bard, you could also get the Soothing Voice ACF which is pretty nice. (I haven't followed the whole conversation, so I don't know how apt that is).
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 25, 2014, 11:42:21 AM
I'm going to go with Wild Elf - +2 Str, -2 Int. I'm going to miss that skill point, but there are worse things. Also, ACFs are just about pointless for any but the first encounter or two.

BTW, I finally got around to reading Endarire's Martial Adepts rework. I mostly like it - getting rid of alignment restrictions and healing types with Devoted Spirit is cool, and the new discipline would be a great fit with my concept. If Dither is ok with it, I'll use them; I won't be heartbroken if you want me to stick to pure TOB though.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 11:59:38 AM
A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

If you have to ask, assume it works as-written. That includes. Every. Single. Lame-ass. Rule. From multi-classing penalties to alignment restrictions. For the simple reason that you should assume that everything works the way it's written until ruled otherwise. And I don't like making rulings.

Seriously, if the rules work as-written then everyone knows exactly what to expect. Build your characters around the rules, rather than around the exceptions or loopholes. Honestly, the only surprises should be the results of the dice rolls.

The more badass and broken you make your characters, the more badass and broken I have to make the encounters. And that is an arms race the players will always lose to the GM.

You have no idea how much time I spent re-reading bloody spell-trigger items. Do not test me.

*grumble* I might as well change my title to "grumpy GM."

edit: Regarding Bahamut and the alignment thing, it seems to me that "Bahamut redeems" and offers creatures the opportunity to be reborn as dragons. Considering Tiamat is evil and has legions of spawn, I don't think she's really interested in re-birthing creatures the same way. She's just as soon have Warlocks or Sorcerers or evil Favored Souls. Or you know, feed you to her pets.

Why would you want to worship Tiamat anyway? Seriously.

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 25, 2014, 12:15:31 PM
A question for Dither, though: How do you feel about refluffling and fluff-based mechanics? I am intending to move into Dragonborn, but I don't know if Bahamut is a thing here, or if the alignment requirements are strict (can I fall, the way DBs usually can? What if he's a Tiamat-powered Dragonborn - do those even exist?). I've got to walk a tightrope with this guy, as he can't fall to evil or rise to good without losing powers.

If you have to ask, assume it works as-written. That includes. Every. Single. Lame-ass. Rule. From multi-classing penalties to alignment restrictions. For the simple reason that you should assume that everything works the way it's written until ruled otherwise. And I don't like making rulings.

Seriously, if the rules work as-written then everyone knows exactly what to expect. Build your characters around the rules, rather than around the exceptions or loopholes. Honestly, the only surprises should be the results of the dice rolls.

The more badass and broken you make your characters, the more badass and broken I have to make the encounters. And that is an arms race the players will always lose to the GM.

You have no idea how much time I spent re-reading bloody spell-trigger items. Do not test me.

*grumble* I might as well change my title to "grumpy GM."

edit: Regarding Bahamut and the alignment thing, it seems to me that "Bahamut redeems" and offers creatures the opportunity to be reborn as dragons. Considering Tiamat is evil and has legions of spawn, I don't think she's really interested in re-birthing creatures the same way. She's just as soon have Warlocks or Sorcerers or evil Favored Souls. Or you know, feed you to her pets.

Why would you want to worship Tiamat anyway? Seriously.

--Dither

Fair enough.  :) Bahamut's redemption angle gives an interesting hook for my character, just so long as I never fall to redemption.  :lol That being said then, I believe I'm good to go.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 25, 2014, 12:29:32 PM
Dragonborn can be any non-evil alignment and need not worship Bahamut.  A LN or CN Dragonborn Crusader/Hexblade is fine.

Frogman: Are you sure you want to take the Inattentative flaw?  -4 on Spot and Listen checks is pretty steep.  Mind you, we do have a bunch of others around who may be able to notice the stuff instead.  I'm not sure what flaw you would take instead.

How do you feel about Combat Reflexes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#combatReflexes)?  It lets you make extra AoO per round equal to your DEX bonus (1 in this case), and lets you make AoO while flat-footed.  It works well with your reach weapon.

I see the feat 'Improved Unarmed Attack,' but do you mean Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike)?  You don't need this feat to avoid AoO when you attack with gauntlets.

Your AC doesn't include your Scale Mail armor bonus to AC.  (Scale Mail has an armor check penalty of -4, slows you to 20', and gives +4 armor AC.)

For your pincer staff, how do grapple checks work?

Also, which Crusader version are you using?

Finally, your character sheet has a blank entry for HP.  Make a note of how much damage you currently have delayed.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 12:59:41 PM
Dragonborn can be any non-evil alignment and need not worship Bahamut.  A LN or CN Dragonborn Crusader/Hexblade is fine.

That aside, the stated purpose of the dragonborn is to protect the world against the spawn of Tiamat.

...
And now for something completely different!

(Trigger warning! Had a lousy night at the game table.)

<soapbox>
(click to show/hide)
</soapbox>

--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 01:20:37 PM
Phew. Last night sucked.

Work finally has the network running. Somehow the cable leading to my PC got switched into a bad/degraded port, so even after the entire rest of the company was back up and running, my system was sluggish for days.

The fix turned out to be as simple as moving the cable to a fresh port. *sigh*

Seriously, IT guys are great but what were they thinking moving stuff around? If it ain't broke, don't fix it. *shakes head*


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 25, 2014, 01:55:42 PM
I mostly agree with you, Dither. Both about IT guys with odd priorities and about the character building.

I'd like to add one caveat to your soapbox, however: Sometimes it isn't about lack of imagination, entitlement or edgy creativeness. It can be about simple ease.

You could have exactly the one character that you have in mind by dropping a PrC requirement, or you could dig through dozens of dips to manage what you want.

Of course, I believe that is more true in RL games, where you [theoretically] have better knowledge of your players than here in PbP.




Anyways......

May I jump into the Goldburn game? If we move quickly we can just pretend I was standing quietly with the hirelings. It's also entirely possible I just failed that save against the sleep. (I actually have a will penalty at the moment.  :lol)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 02:03:46 PM
May I jump into the Goldburn game? If we move quickly we can just pretend I was standing quietly with the hirelings. It's also entirely possible I just failed that save against the sleep. (I actually have a will penalty at the moment.  :lol)

By all means.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 02:10:59 PM
I just gotta say, the players at my table can act hella entitled and it bugs the crap out of me.

Maybe not all of them and not all at the same time, but none of them are immune.

I ranted and raved at them a couple weeks back -- and I probably confused them with what I explained as wanting from a game.

It really didn't help that the GM was a newb and a couple players were taking advantage of his inexperience.

But it's like... "No, guys. Just no. Just play the game. Play the game in front of you. Don't play me, play the effing game."

It's like everyone grew up playing Risk and Monopoly and got used to screwing each other over.

And a cooperative game like D&D comes along and everyone just loses their minds.

"What do you mean this game isn't about amassing every possible advantage and using it to annihilate everyone else at the table? I thought you said this was a fun game."

And I just... stand there, shuddering, with my face in my hands. And I weep. ...In my head, of course. :/


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 25, 2014, 03:18:08 PM
Everyone: To avoid the 'this roll has been tampered with' error message, I recommend writing out your post first in another program like Word, Notepad, or Wordpad then pasting it into the window, board code and all.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 25, 2014, 03:29:02 PM
Everyone: To avoid the 'this roll has been tampered with' error message, I recommend writing out your post first in another program like Word, Notepad, or Wordpad then pasting it into the window, board code and all.
Or we could make a thread devoted to just dice rolls, and link back to our posts there in the main thread. That's what a lot of other games on this forum do.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: dither on September 25, 2014, 04:53:33 PM
Or we could make a thread devoted to just dice rolls, and link back to our posts there in the main thread.

At this point, that makes a lot of sense. Everyone would know exactly where to look for them.


--Dither
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 26, 2014, 09:59:20 AM
Have we officially entered combat mode?  Seymour's initial impression was the dwarf mining team turned hostile.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on September 26, 2014, 10:04:00 AM
Have we officially entered combat mode?  Seymour's initial impression was the dwarf mining team turned hostile.
They cast a Sleep spell at the bulk of the party, so I'd say yes.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on September 26, 2014, 10:35:35 AM
We also rolled initiative, which also seems like a good indication.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 26, 2014, 05:40:45 PM
My post is up on the Goldburn Mine.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on September 29, 2014, 07:10:30 PM
Just checkin' in since it's Monday and waitin' on the GM's response to the Goldburn Mine post.

Thanks again, dither, for GMing!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on October 02, 2014, 11:53:47 PM
Poke, poke... one more time.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: McPoyo on October 07, 2014, 10:55:34 AM
Alright, been busy with work and childbirth stuff, so now that I can actively devote attention...

Did everyone who was going to adventure with me die off? If so, I'll strike back out with my mercenaries.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on October 07, 2014, 11:41:11 AM
Dither has been AFC (Away From Campaign) for weeks now.  I PMed him and posted on this thread and my game instance (The Goldburn Mines) and got no reply.

From what I can tell, everyone is still alive.

Happy childbirth recovery!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on October 12, 2014, 10:08:56 PM
Poke, poke, poke one more time!

Dither, where are you?  We miss you!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Sohala on October 21, 2014, 03:44:24 PM
 :beathorse (<attempt at waking Dither)
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on October 21, 2014, 05:44:30 PM
I agree, Sohala.  It's been 2 weeks since my last post.  I'll PM dither again.
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Endarire on November 09, 2014, 11:11:13 PM
Any word?
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: Frogman55 on November 10, 2014, 08:15:03 AM
MARCO!!
Title: Re: OOC and discussion
Post by: phaedrusxy on November 10, 2014, 02:11:02 PM
It's dead, Jim.