Author Topic: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)  (Read 5924 times)

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« on: December 28, 2013, 02:32:35 PM »
So my viking gestalt game is approaching 18th level.  There are lots of problems that my PC's are dealing with right now (I have about 10 plot threads going on in the background), but one of the main goals they will have to deal with is a GCR 25 Great Wyrm White Dragon who also has regeneration.  They will not be able to level into epic levels until they have defeated this foe.

I'm thinking of giving the PC's a clue about where Sigurd's sword is located.  For those who don't know, Sigurd is a Norseman from the Sagas who had his father's broken sword (gived to his father by Odin) reforged into the sword Gram.  In testing the sword after its forging, he cleaved an anvil in twain, and he then used the blade to slay Fafnir (a fierce dragon that was a greedy shape-changed dwarf).  The name Gram means "wrath" in Old Norse.

Obviously, if the PC's could find Gram, it should be a great help to them in fighting dragons.

I'm tempted to make it by starting with the Blade of Dragondoom from the Draconomicon (+3 Greatsword that 3/day can "smite" a dragon, thus gaining bonus damage against a dragon based upon the dragon's size, such as +3d6 against a gargantuan dragon).  To this, I think I'll make it from Adamantine (to represent the cleaving through an anvil; also, it cleaved through an iron door), and also make it a Dragon Bane and Berserker (UE) weapon, so that its enhancement bonus goes up by +2 against dragons, and an additional +2 if the wielder is raging (one of my PC's is a Barbarian//Beguiler who typically uses a greatsword).

That would have the sword function as a +7 weapon against dragons when the wielder is raging, and would deal +2d6 damage all the time, with an additional +3d6 smite damage against the great wyrm white dragon they will need to fight.  I might even make the base sword +4 instead of +3.

Any other ideas of what may be a better way of representing Gram?

I know the Blade of Dragondoom isn't actually that amazing.  You're basically "spending" 16,000 gp for the smite ability, which is just some bonus damage dice.  If there is something better and still appropriate to the theme of the weapon, I'm all ears.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 08:58:33 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2013, 02:48:52 PM »
Wouldn't Gram be even better against this thing, since he was turned into a dragon by Fafnir's gold and has quite a lot of it? Or am I remembering this wrong? XD

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2013, 03:00:21 PM »
You are correct.  The Great Wyrm in question (as well as most of the Dragons my PC's have encountered) is a result of the Andvari-cursed silver that Fafnir once held.

Which could be the justification for it being a Dragon Bane greatsword.  If it should be even better than that... what would you propose?

Offline Gazzien

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 2113
  • Science? Science.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2013, 10:29:42 PM »
I might add that it flat-bypasses the regeneration, as it's gifted to the Dragon by the curse from Fafnir's gold?

Otherwise the Barb/Beg might just skip it in favor of things that can bypass the regeneration. (Though I'm unsure, perhaps the sword already would, didn't read the dragon's statblock in a while)

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 12:32:38 AM »
It's just the same regeneration as an Ice Troll: Regeneration 4 overcome by Fire and Acid.

It also has the Fast Healing epic feat for fast healing 3 (which combines w/ Regen to effectively give it Regen 7 until all nonlethal damage is gone; fast healing only heals nonlethal first, until it is gone.  Only then does it start healing lethal damage.)

The Barb//Beguiler doesn't have much that would overcome the Regeneration anyway.  And there's only about a 10% chance the BBEG dragon would fail his Will saves against the Beguiler's highest-level spells (as they typically lay; the PC's might give enough forethought to pumping their saves any way they can, which would increase those chances).

Of course, he has Mindblank as well, so the enchantments are out. Especially given his CL is too high to be dispeled.
(We as a group are in the process of deciding how to deal with Mordenkainen's Disjunction; we might scrap it, or at least modify it heavily. The players seemed quite scared of it when I read the text to them.)
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 12:59:34 AM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline phaedrusxy

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 10708
  • The iconic spambot
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 11:24:09 PM »
Add Impaling? (Impaling is from MiC. 3x/day as a swift action you can make your next attack a touch attack. Technically only available for piercing weapons.)
I don't pee messages into the snow often , but when I do , it's in Cyrillic with Fake Viagra.  Stay frosty my friends.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2014, 07:59:21 PM »
Found this Artifact in the Arms and Equipment Guide:
Quote
Dragonhammer is a +5 holy dragon bane greatsword when used against evil dragons. Its bane property does not function against good dragons. Against attacks by dragons, the wielder of the sword enjoys acid, electricity, fire, and cold resistance 20 and a +7 luck bonus to AC.

Maybe use this as the base, making it adamantine, and changing out Holy for Berserker (+2 enhancement bonus when raging).
The wording of the sword is somewhat unclear: "... when used against evil dragons."  What if it is used against anything but an evil dragon?  The implication is that the dragon bane part is the only thing not functioning when attacking anything but an evil dragon, but it isn't that clear.  Bane doesn't work against Good dragons, but what about Neutral?

Still need to give this some thought.  Should Gram be an artifact? (Probably)  If so, how powerful?

Offline Raineh Daze

  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10577
  • hi
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2014, 08:18:07 PM »
Well, it's a unique, named magical item of some potency. Doesn't that make it an artifact by default? :p

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2014, 11:41:34 PM »
Artifact by default... not necessarily.  Hadryllis from Forgotten Realms is a named magical item of "some potency*." It's not an artifact, just an intelligent +3 outsider bane holy cold iron greatsword.

That said, I DO want it to be near-artifact in status.  It was "given" to Sigmund by Odin, after all.  This is what just popped into mind as I was rereading the Saga of the Volsungs:

Gram: Adamantine +5 Berserker Dragon Bane Greatsword.  In addition, a wielder can formally claim Gram as his own by grasping the hilt and as a standard action willfully expending 1,000 XP.  At any point thereafter, the wielder may call upon a surge of fortune as an immediate action, treating his next attack roll with Gram as a natural 20. (The attack roll must occur within one round of invoking this power, and you must still roll to confirm the critical hit normally).  No one else can formally claim Gram until the wielder expends the surge of fortune, or he dies, breaking his link with Gram.

I'll probably tweak it a bit yet, but it's basically just a "normal" magic sword, plus an XP-requiring ability for the wielder to cast Surge of Fortune (Comp Champ) or Limited Wish on himself (recall that Limited Wish can "Produce any other effect whose power level is in line with the above effects, such as a single creature automatically hitting on its next attack...")

One might even be able to interpret it as preventing the application of a Bless Weapon effect, as the nat 20 ability is coming from the sword...

Alternatively, or additionally, I could see allowing a once-per-lifetime Surge of Fortune/Bless Weapon combo (after all, an archivist or a cleric with some Oil of Bless Weapon could do this several times a day.)

Not that it really matters.  The PC I expect to wield this can cast True Strike.  You can guarantee he'd be putting all the bonuses onto the confirmation roll that he can.

The XP cost is just a thumbnail estimate, more expensive than Limited Wish's 300 xp cost because it allows anyone, even people who couldn't normally cast a limited wish, to gain/control the benefit.


*It has the unique property of being able to shatter the Adamantine Binding which tethers Eltab and the scattered demoncyst pockets of the 248th layer of the Abyss to the Demonlands of Faerun.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 11:53:48 PM by ksbsnowowl »

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2014, 05:27:22 AM »
Hmm, seems to me that in the legend itself, Gram wasn't especially good at killing dragons in specific. Just at killing in general. Might be better to have it curse any injury inflicted through it with Greymantle(SpC 107), and ignore DR/Hardness. Other than that it's just supposed to be a Very Good Sword(So, +5? or maybe natively +6 so it can't be matched by mortal weapons).

I recall the blade is jinxed though. None of it's wielders came to a good end, though few are the Norse legends who ever did.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2014, 09:48:01 AM »
Hmmm... Graymantle might be a decent idea.  Maybe a hit subjects the foe to Graymantle for one round.  You have to keep hitting it or the Graymantle turns off...  Still, it allows a Fort save and SR.  The Big Bad has a +30 Fort and SR of 37 (due to Awaken Spell Resistance).

On the jinxed part, IIRC, we only saw two or three people wield Gram. Sigmund and Sigurd, and possibly also the treacherous king/brother-in-law who captured Sigmund.  In the case Sigurd, it was more related to the curse of Andvari.  The other two were just warriors and rivals; such things happen in that line of work.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2014, 10:18:06 AM »
Reduce the Greymantle duration to one round, and remove the save I think. You already have to hit with a regular attack to deliver it, so the attack roll replaces the save, and innate item abilities rather than actual spell like effects don't usually check for SR, especially since this is at least a minor artifact or relic.

As for the jinx, it's not to the extent of immediate mechanical effects anyway. It could be summed up as "your life will be full of drama and tragedy".

Which as adventurers they already have.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2014, 11:54:46 AM »
True enough on the adventurer's life.

Maybe make the Graymantle part a 1/day special ability that lasts 10 rounds?  On all the time seems a touch nuts, but then again, we are approaching epic levels...

Hmm, seems to me that in the legend itself, Gram wasn't especially good at killing dragons in specific. Just at killing in general.
The way I justify the dragon bane, when Regin reforged Gram for the expressed purpose of killing Fafnir, he would have added it as a "simple" means of helping ensure Sigurd was successful.

Maybe the Graymantle part only works against dragons?  I could see letting it be an all-the-time ability to "auto"-inflict a 1-round graymantle effect on a hit, with no save or SR, as long as it was restricted to a single creature type.

Still, I like the Surge of Fortune bit, as that does a really good job of explaining Sigurd's strike to the heart with his first thrust.

An Adamantine +5 Berserker Dragon Bane Greatsword that inflicts a 1-round graymantle effect on any dragon it hits (no save or SR), and has the XP-cost Surge of Fortune ability puts the weapon somewhere close to epic and/or artifact status... (not exactly sure how much those two extra abilities would be worth).
Give it a CL of 25 or so.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2014, 02:01:49 PM »
Probably well into major artifact with all that. I'm thinking less is more. Just make sure you have all the essential functions, and you're set, so slotting too many abilities make it look overencrusted.
Noting that even at always on, the Greymantle effect is pretty minor. Most things don't heal enough in combat that you'd care.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2014, 02:33:43 PM »
Noting that even at always on, the Greymantle effect is pretty minor. Most things don't heal enough in combat that you'd care.
That's true.  The Big Bad is a white dragon with Regen 4 (Fire/Acid), so it would actually come into play.  But with a one-round duration, he could escape and his regen would start healing again the very next round.

Offline veekie

  • Spinner of Fortunes
  • Epic Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 5423
  • Chaos Dice
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2014, 02:52:51 PM »
Personally what I view as key to fighting that dragon for a warrior, offensively:
-Suppress or ignore the regeneration, Greymantle does it
-Overcome, suppress or ignore the damage reduction.(which at +6 it'd do easily for any dragon)
-Compel the dragon to fight in melee, or failing that, limit it's ability to fly/magic away from the fight.
-Be a good weapon, a +5 or better enhancement does that.
Everything is edible. Just that there are things only edible once per lifetime.
It's a god-eat-god world.

Procrastination is the thief of time; Year after year it steals, till all are fled,
And to the mercies of a moment leaves; The vast concerns of an eternal scene.

Offline ksbsnowowl

  • DnD Handbook Writer
  • ****
  • Posts: 4776
  • Warrior Skald, teller of tales.
    • View Profile
Re: Making Gram (Sigurd's Sword)
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 05:33:01 PM »
Just finalizing this, though it'll be another several sessions before my PC's are able to gain it.

Gram is an Adamantine +5 Berserker Dragon Bane Greatsword.  Gram inflicts the effects of Graymantle (SpC p. 107) upon any dragon that it strikes; the graymantle effect lasts one round, and no saving throw or spell resistance can resist this effect.  In addition, a wielder can formally claim Gram as his own by grasping the hilt and over the course of three minutes (consecutive full-round actions, uninterrupted by any other actions) willfully expend 1,000 XP.  At any point thereafter, the wielder may call upon a surge of fortune as an immediate action, treating his next attack roll with Gram as a natural 20. (The attack roll must occur within one round of invoking this power, and you must still roll to confirm the critical hit normally).  No one else can formally claim Gram until the wielder expends the surge of fortune, or he dies, breaking his link with Gram.

Edit: I did slightly alter something as the PC's first learned of Gram's exact abilities.  I altered the XP-recharge time to three minutes.  As soon as I was reading the original above text aloud to them, a player and I both realized that they would just use Time Stop to recharge it over three "rounds" in the middle of battle.  The intent was to give them one massive strike in a battle, not every "turn."  Since it is a pretty much wholly custom ability anyway, I can alter it as I see fit, right?  ;)  They haven't actually gotten the sword yet, but they've seen it (and looked at it through an Artificer's Monocle).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 11:02:17 PM by ksbsnowowl »