Author Topic: If you were DMing..  (Read 6885 times)

Offline Masakan

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If you were DMing..
« on: July 24, 2016, 08:00:57 PM »
Whats the highest level monster you would ever seriously send at your group at level 1?

Offline Amechra

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2016, 08:26:41 PM »
Whats the highest level monster you would ever seriously send at your group at level 1?

The tarrasque.

The rest of the adventure was a revenge game against the tarrasque.
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Offline Dr_emperor

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2016, 09:18:26 PM »
Anything especially with forewarning.

Offline ketaro

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2016, 10:17:07 PM »
In terms of what?

For no reason at all?

Or as the setup for the plot of the rest of the game?

Because the latter would allow any level monster and still be perfectly reasonable with the story to back it up.

Offline Masakan

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2016, 10:28:53 PM »
In terms of what?

For no reason at all?

Or as the setup for the plot of the rest of the game?

Because the latter would allow any level monster and still be perfectly reasonable with the story to back it up.
Lets say you wanted to challenge your players...wouldn't you say that making them fight someone who is level 3 is a little much?
Personally i wouldn't make them fight anything higher then level 2 at the start..but then some people like feeling helpless.

Offline altpersona

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2016, 10:32:57 PM »
iv always felt that it was up to the players to choose their enemies wisely.

if your lvl 1 and you see The T, you are supposed to bravely run away despite having the option of trying to fight it.
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Offline ketaro

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2016, 10:37:37 PM »
Based on an average party of 4 level one PCs versus....1 Level 2 NPC? If assuming at least half the party can reliably to damage as a combatant every round, the fight ends in 2 rounds.

Adding another level just adds maybe a round and a half to the fight. Unless your NPC or monster is capable of multiple attacks in a single round, I actually can't imagine anything under level 6 challenging a party of 1st level adventurers properly working in tandem. Some one may die, but that'd happen anyways with a normal 1st level appropriate encounter.

Offline altpersona

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2016, 11:13:08 PM »
my 1e osr game im in had a party wipe from a 'swarm' (natural, not TO) of hornets (not dog size, more like sand hornets). the one guy who lived was off tending to manual labor hirelings when they showed up.  :rolleyes

The goal of power is power. - 1984
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow
The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga still sux.

Offline eggynack

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2016, 01:55:02 AM »
Beyond the whole running away thing, if we're assuming a stand up fight, it also depends on the party makeup. I'd be more comfortable sending some higher level enemies against a well optimized game rending machine of a party than against a bunch of particularly poorly built commoners. It also depends somewhat on the specific monster. Because, sure, a tarrasque is going to make a mess out of most low level parties, but you don't have to be all that high level (7th level maximum, with some strategies working at lower level) to have some ways to utterly trivialize that encounter with some prep work. If, that is, you're working with that aforementioned high end party. So, it depends. Some parties are going to hit way outside of their game intended weight class, and so are some monsters. It's difficult to do a good number selection with universal applicability as a result.

Offline phaedrusxy

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2016, 11:17:12 AM »
I hate level 1 because it is almost impossible to even guess whether they will win or it will be a TPK, unless they're fighting rats (individuals, not swarms) or something equally inane...
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Offline Unbeliever

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2016, 11:22:49 AM »
I hate level 1 because it is almost impossible to even guess whether they will win or it will be a TPK, unless they're fighting rats (individuals, not swarms) or something equally inane...
+1.  The OP is pitched at too high a level of generality to really usefully answer.  You could ask it at any level, and you'd still get a lot of the same responses.

What actually are you asking?  There's no reason to be opaque about it.

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2016, 12:40:26 PM »
I'd throw a CR 40 Orcus at them, kill them, reanimate their corpses, and then point out I said that if I'm DMing we're not starting at level 1.

To be honest through, you should probably read the Encounter Level area in the DMG. It talks about how the circumstances of an Encounter can shift up to three points each way even if the CRs remain the same. And '3' may not sound like much, but a '+2' is like doubling the creatures thrown at them. The CR/EL system is an abstract and overgeneralized system to only be used as a rough gauge if the party consists of the correct roles and they meet on equal terms.

Like Unbeliever has brought up, you should come out and ask a more detailed question. Like if you have a party of X at Y optimization levels & Z gaming experience, what Encounter would you use to challenge them.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2016, 03:56:40 PM »
I'd throw a CR 40 Orcus at them, kill them, reanimate their corpses, and then point out I said that if I'm DMing we're not starting at level 1.
Amen!  Friends don't let friends play level 1 D&D.  If Orcus is what's required to prove that point, then SO BE IT*.


*tangentially, "so be it" is pretty much what amen means anyway. 

Offline Masakan

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2016, 10:52:38 PM »
I'd throw a CR 40 Orcus at them, kill them, reanimate their corpses, and then point out I said that if I'm DMing we're not starting at level 1.
Amen!  Friends don't let friends play level 1 D&D.  If Orcus is what's required to prove that point, then SO BE IT*.


*tangentially, "so be it" is pretty much what amen means anyway.
Got that right, I HATE level 1 starts.

Offline ketaro

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2016, 12:49:33 AM »
The only time I started a game at level 1 was when it was E6 and Gestalt.

Offline Unbeliever

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2016, 03:45:14 PM »
Got that right, I HATE level 1 starts.
Umm, /thread, then? 

Offline Masakan

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2016, 04:32:59 PM »
Got that right, I HATE level 1 starts.
Umm, /thread, then?
I don't dm.

Offline Ice9

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2016, 05:26:30 PM »
First off, I'm assuming that you mean "that the PCs have to fight/survive" - I see no problem with having the Tarrasque stomp past in the distance at L1, but having them stuck in a cave with it would usually be a dick move.

Even then, it depends on the monster.  Level 1 is so swingy and specific-character-dependent that I'd always eyeball rather than trusting CRs.  Like for example, I'd happily put them against this character (optimized for tavern brawling):

Dwarf Warrior 10 (CR 9)
Stats: 11/12/17/8/10/7 (standard array, ++ to Con)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Close Quarters Fighting, Great Fortitude, Poison Healer
Combat: 85 hp, AC 11, hits at +10 for 1d3 damage. 
Also can drink anyone under the table and heal himself by doing so.

But not this one, unless I wanted something extra deadly:

Bone Creature Xeph Warlock 1 (CR 1)
Feats: Mortalbane, Point Blank Shot, Psionic Shot (extra feats from taint/flaws)
Combat: 11 hp, AC 18+cover, hits at +4 (touch) for 5d6, from 250' away (Eldritch Spear)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 05:43:27 PM by Ice9 »

Offline Nytemare3701

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2016, 02:25:28 PM »
First off, I'm assuming that you mean "that the PCs have to fight/survive" - I see no problem with having the Tarrasque stomp past in the distance at L1, but having them stuck in a cave with it would usually be a dick move.

Even then, it depends on the monster.  Level 1 is so swingy and specific-character-dependent that I'd always eyeball rather than trusting CRs.  Like for example, I'd happily put them against this character (optimized for tavern brawling):

Dwarf Warrior 10 (CR 9)
Stats: 11/12/17/8/10/7 (standard array, ++ to Con)
Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Close Quarters Fighting, Great Fortitude, Poison Healer
Combat: 85 hp, AC 11, hits at +10 for 1d3 damage. 
Also can drink anyone under the table and heal himself by doing so.

But not this one, unless I wanted something extra deadly:

Bone Creature Xeph Warlock 1 (CR 1)
Feats: Mortalbane, Point Blank Shot, Psionic Shot (extra feats from taint/flaws)
Combat: 11 hp, AC 18+cover, hits at +4 (touch) for 5d6, from 250' away (Eldritch Spear)

^A great example of CR being bullshit on DM created creatures.

What you really should be asking is "how outclassed can a party be before it's a dick move?"

Offline SorO_Lost

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Re: If you were DMing..
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2016, 07:05:01 PM »
What you really should be asking is "how outclassed can a party be before it's a dick move?"
Right?

In my experience, Players don't even like it when a monster comes close to their power let alone exceed it.