Player with a re-rolling addiction

[ariasderros]

There is a player in a few of my IRL play-groups who has a habit that can really grate on me at times.
He gets bored with characters after a while, gets them killed, and brings in another character.

He seems to really like character creation, making 3-8 characters for any given game. But he goes through them pretty quick. I don't think I can recall a single character ever lasting 8 sessions. There was one time when in the course of 8 sessions he went through 3 characters. One was a legitimate death, to be fair.

Now, I've gotten bored with a character or two in my time. However, this is just ridiculous. But moreso, there are two, real, problems here.

The first problem is the obvious one, the parties 'revolving door'. Eventually, the party, in character, begins to regard each other as more permanent comrades, who seem to always have one 'red shirt' or another hanging out. So the party, in character and out, stops paying any attention to this players characters, because there's no point. "Oh, you serve the queen, and wish to become the first knight of her kingdom? Yeah... Don't care, you won't last long... no one who groups with us lives long." And this is to say nothing of the 'revolving door' meaning that any campaign-ties that that character had were gone, and the DM / GM / ST needs to come up with some reason for this character to be joining the party. This can get problematic, and encourages eventual laziness. Because, really, why bother giving this character any reasoning, any connections that the party might want or need, when he's going to be outa there faster than a crack-smoking temp worker?

But that, that I could deal with.

The second problem, however, is making me quite perturbed. See, I've retired characters before. I've had them achieve their goals, get called off somewhere, or some other, in-character reasoning worked out between me and the DM way in advance. This guy, not-so-much. See, he has to be a disruptive of an ass about it as he can, the in-character justification is usually flimsy at best, and sometimes he comes right out of the blue with it. He has had his clerics offer their words at important NPC funerals (one, the woman had been the lead cleric for her god in the whole world), just for his first act to be the destruction of holy symbols, because they were not from his god (his was Kord, and the symbols were of Eveninglory, from LM). More recently, he has had his Settite (Vampire) offer himself to a diablerist, then his replacement character eventually decided to start a fight with another party member (50-50 for which one would die), with no real justification (he managed to manouver a conversation to being hostile, then just let fly the violence, and the conversation wasn't even bad enough to think about frenzy).

He does this in every game, and every in system. He tends to be somewhat proud of his disruptive deaths (the most recent one, he was even bragging about it). So talking to him about that is pointless. I've tried talking to him about why he thinks he gets bored with the characters, and I have yet to have ever gotten any kind of actual answer to that. Honestly, it seems to me (just my opinion) that it is more because he makes so many different characters, that when he's playing one, he's looking over the others with rose-coloured glasses, in kind of a "'grass-is-always-greener', so I'll jump the fence" vicious cycle.

At the same time, except for this, he's a good player. And he's kind of the linchpin for the group, being the one who introduced many of us.

What do you think of this situation?
Have any of you had to deal with something like this? If so, how did you handle it?

[Yirrare]

How is the stories he writes up for his characters?

I ask since, for me, the characters I get bored with are usually those with a poor backstory. If it's just "generic spellcaster", there is little joy in it. If the character has an elaborate story, so I know what he would do in any situation, it's a lot more fun to play him.
I do acknowledge the fact that he might not function the same way. But getting him to write up a good story for his character is my best bet.

Now telling him to write an elaborate story will probably not work for several reasons. Consequently, I suggest you (or someone else in the group) suggest to him to write up character stories together. Meet up, drink tea and write up the story of how your characters came to meet, what they've done in the past etc. Get his characters hopes, dreams and ambitions to come to life. Because if his character comes to life, he will likely hate to see him die.

Hope that helps.
Best Regards
Yirrare

[ariasderros]

How are the stories he writes up for his characters?

Actually, most of them are pretty elaborate and in-depth. He has a concept, then builds on it very well. It actually makes me quite surprised he discards them the way he does. Which is why I think what I do about it being that he wants to play the next one, thinking it'll be even more fun more than the one he's on not being fun. Because he has the imaginings for them too.

Get his characters hopes, dreams and ambitions to come to life. Because if his character comes to life, he will likely hate to see him die.

Nope, he has character goals aplenty, and sometimes a character actually gets glimmers of hope of achieving them, until they are overcome by an irrational death-wish.
The one who just recently started a fight with a party-member wanted to take up important positions in the city, in a hostile takeover, but he wanted to be in the right position to do so, not just blithely be an idiot about it. He was actually quite a number of steps along that path too. Then, Death.
It's frustrating.

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, it looks like his greatest joy is making PCs rather than playing them, which does suck for the rest of your group. I like Yirrare's suggestion on back stories (and I agree: my favorite PCs have good back stories and my least favorite don't), but it doesn't look like that is an issue.

Have you tried talking to him outside the game about it? I know you said you asked him about why he gets bored, but have you told him that it makes it harder for you to run the game? Perhaps there's a way the two of you can work together where he either tones it back, or he works with you ahead of time to help write his PCs in and out of the story so you know to expect it.

I think since this problem is more with the meta-game than the game itself, the solution will likely come from outside the game itself, as well.

[Mnemnosyne]

Consider working with him to figure out a way that it might make sense for his characters to come and go often, without requiring the disruptive suicides or other means of removing a character.  This way, he can continue to switch characters, which he appears to enjoy, but it becomes part of a rational, logical course of action rather than a disruption to the game.

For instance, if his characters are all employed by or connected to a mercenary organization, and the mercenary organization sends a representative along with the party, it doesn't necessarily have to be the same individual all the time.  The old ones could get called away on other work, replaced by a new one.  They're sending someone along because they have a contract with another one of the party members, or the party's employer, or something like that, but they have a dysfunctional bureaucracy and they keep recalling one guy and sending someone different.

It may not be ideal, but it might help a lot, if the judgement that he just wants to create new characters a lot is accurate.  Also, in this manner, his old characters still exist, and could potentially return if he feels like playing them again.  Eventually, he may wind up preferring one of them enough to stick with it over the others.  Figuring out a way to allow him to switch until he finds that comfortable spot, without also being disruptive to the rest of the group, may wind up benefiting everyone.

[ariasderros]

This way, he can continue to switch characters, which he appears to enjoy, but it becomes part of a rational, logical course of action rather than a disruption to the game.

Except this:

He tends to be somewhat proud of his disruptive deaths (the most recent one, he was even bragging about it).

Don't get me wrong, talking to him again is something I will be doing this weekend. I'm just not going to be going into this conversation with any optimism. I don't expect an argument or anything, I just doubt there'll be any progress. I do believe he can be made to understand that this last time was way too disruptive, and he may curtail that portion of the behavior a bit, or at least not get any worse. However, the part I'm not counting on is any kind of '180' or rapid fix.

It may not be ideal, but it might help a lot, if the judgement that he just wants to create new characters a lot is accurate.  Also, in this manner, his old characters still exist, and could potentially return if he feels like playing them again

I wish that were an option. But it isn't. Reason being, is that he's been the victim of some very bad DM's. Some of them had been quite spiteful towards him about various things, some of which not even game related. One of the things that would happen is his characters would be used as NPCs, and in ways he didn't like, or even brought back 'on camera' just to be killed off in some horrible manner. He knows that none of the current ST's & GM's, including myself, would be that... bitchy. However, it has become a habit of his to make sure that those kind of things can't happen, and it is one of those things where he finds it is just easier to maintain his defensive behaviors.

Have you tried talking to him outside the game about it?¹ I know you said you asked him about why he gets bored, but have you told him that it makes it harder for you to run the game?² Perhaps there's a way the two of you can work together where he either tones it back, or he works with you ahead of time to help write his PCs in and out of the story so you know to expect it.³

1) once, but there was a lot of other things going on in both our lives, it was a few game groups ago, and he's probably forgotten that conversation.
2) It hasn't ever been quite this obtrusive before, at least not with me as DM /GM / ST. I've talked to him about a great many things on behalf of other Gm /DM St's before though (I tend to become a mediator to pretty much anyone I meet, for some reason), but it hasn't usually made much difference.
3) That's pretty much the plan for the conversation I'm going to be having with him.

I think since this problem is more with the meta-game than the game itself, the solution will likely come from outside the game itself, as well.

Definitely. That's pretty much the only place the problem really is, therefor that's where the solution has to come from. There really isn't anything more that can be done in-game.

So, really though, has anyone else here had to deal with this kind of behavior?

[Unbeliever]

Not to the degree you describe. 

I myself am a bit guilty of it when it comes to superhero concepts -- a genre I enjoy but only get to play about a session a year in.  But, these sound extremely disruptive.  And, usually a "listen, you are wrecking any sense of continuity in this campaign, so can you settle on a character and stick with it, or at the very least work with me to help get your new concept smoothly fit into the extant campaign without doing too much violence to continuity and plot?" would seem sufficient among most of my gaming group.  Honestly, we tend to be a bit more campaign fickle than character fickle.

Also, I'd be really open and upfront about the bad behaviors of other DMs.  Those sound incredibly douchey to me.  It's something I've never even come across before, and I'd probably be incensed if it happened, having some sense of ownership over my PCs.  I'd try and be as straightforward and explain your rather intuitive and basic issue with frequent character swapping and hope for the best.  It seems sufficiently obvious to any gamer that it will hopefully work out fine. 

[ariasderros]

Also, I'd be really open and upfront about the bad behaviors of other DMs.  Those sound incredibly douchey to me.

Douche doesn't even begin to describe.

I have had experience with bad. Very, very bad. Everything about the DM was bad. Anyone who has played with "Bad DM K", uses him as the ultimate bad DM benchmark.
He BS'ed everything, including what his rulings were, and don't try to make him be consistent.
But here's a story, I call it "Worst magic-use of 'Bad DM K'".
[...]
But yeah, "Bad DM K" has pretty much set what my tolerance is for certain things.

Oh, and in the story that I cut out of that quote here, which you can read in the original post, I'll give you a hint as to who that 'victim' was, this thread is about him.

Really, really, REALLY bad DM history that he and I share. And he had the worst of it. 

Anywho:

Not to the degree you describe. 

I myself am a bit guilty of it when it comes to superhero concepts -- a genre I enjoy but only get to play about a session a year in.

On this, I wold love to hear more. Honestly, I'm more looking for thoughts, opinions and, above all, anecdotes than advice. And it seems as though you may have some.
Sharing is caring man, sharing is caring.

[Yirrare]

[...]

It may not be ideal, but it might help a lot, if the judgement that he just wants to create new characters a lot is accurate.  Also, in this manner, his old characters still exist, and could potentially return if he feels like playing them again

I wish that were an option. But it isn't. Reason being, is that he's been the victim of some very bad DM's. Some of them had been quite spiteful towards him about various things, some of which not even game related. One of the things that would happen is his characters would be used as NPCs, and in ways he didn't like, or even brought back 'on camera' just to be killed off in some horrible manner. He knows that none of the current ST's & GM's, including myself, would be that... bitchy. However, it has become a habit of his to make sure that those kind of things can't happen, and it is one of those things where he finds it is just easier to maintain his defensive behaviors.

[...]

Although it's probably self explanatory that your group would not do that, you should state that you never would. His countermeasures might be subconscious, and pointing it out might help him be more relaxed about loose ends.

The only other tip I have is to consider giving him some kind of DM position. Rolling new characters will not be a problem, since each combat could just include a lieutenant or something similar. Them dying is probably a believable consequence of being enemies of the PC's as well. 
This might be a way to calm his "character creation addiction" (and I use the word addiction quite loosely) enough for him to be able to keep one playing character (i.e. partymember).
(Of course, the above needs a bit of moderation if you don't circle the DM position. I got a feeling you do, but I might be mistaken.)

Best Regards
Yirrare

Edit: Also, I just read that post about the bad DM you had the misfortune to play with. If he had many DMs like that, I can see where some of his behaviour might be coming from. Hope your current group and future groups are better.

[Unbeliever]

I don't know if any really dramatic examples come to mind.  A lot of it happens if there's a big break (usually due to holidays or work) in the gaming schedule b/c then my hobby horse of character creation rears its ugly head.

The real issue, for me at least, is when I have a lot more concepts than opportunity to play them.  Hence it comes up a lot with superheroes -- its a media I consume a fair amount of and one with myriad interesting concepts, so there's a lot of them floating around, but I rarely get to play it much.  For me, it manifests in just not being very enthusiastic about a character, or wanting to tweak it a lot.  So, I show up at a session and like "oh, and my character has this new element," which sometimes ends up being awesome -- I'm bound to get lucky sometimes -- but often ends up kludging up things. 

Although all of this happens the most when:  (a) my concept isn't actually that good or I am not able to really grok the character's personality or find a cool hook for it, or (b) the concept I have in mind and how it will play out has a fundamental mismatch with the campaign, usually due to poor communication on the DM's part.  I do work exceptionally hard at making characters that fit into the campaign as it is described to me. 

Note that part of the fun of D&D at least, and this is one of those things that D&D just does particularly well, is watching a character grow and change and evolve.  If the player isn't all that into that, or if the character's mechanical trajectory is either uninteresting or already been fulfilled, then that might also lead to some boredom.  A close cousin to this is that D&D characters can veer off their expected trajectory, often through story events or finding an interesting bit of magical gear.

[ariasderros]

The only other tip I have is to consider giving him some kind of DM position. Rolling new characters will not be a problem, since each combat could just include a lieutenant or something similar.
(Of course, the above needs a bit of moderation if you don't circle the DM position. I got a feeling you do, but I might be mistaken.)

We don't really 'circle the DM position' per se, but games will either end or be canceled, and someone else jumps in with a game concept to immediately fill the void. He has been the DM twice, and a GM for Dark Heresy once. He does D&D well. Warhammer, not-so-much.
But this last time, when he was talking to me in private, he professed many time about how much he prefers being a player to being the DM. Because as a player he actually gets to play the characters, whereas when he's a DM, the characters are either not on-screen for that long, or he ends up feeling like he's doing the "DM+PC" mistake.
Which is sad, cause he's a pretty good DM.

Edit: Also, I just read that post about the bad DM you had the misfortune to play with. If he had many DMs like that, I can see where some of his behaviour might be coming from. Hope your current group and future groups are better.

We've 'weeded out' the problem people. So our current and future groups aren't likely to be a problem. But yeah, he's had quite a few that were that bad. "K" takes the cake though, for my experiences, though I understand that for this guy, "K" was just one of 3 that were about that bad. Which is really pathetic when you think about it.

The real issue, for me at least, is when I have a lot more concepts than opportunity to play them.  Hence it comes up a lot with superheroes -- its a media I consume a fair amount of and one with myriad interesting concepts, so there's a lot of them floating around, but I rarely get to play it much. 

I think that's one of his problems too. He reads a lot of books (I mean, A LOT), and frequently plays games, jumping between them. So he picks up a lot of concepts too. He'll adapt them, then try to play them.
Then, with your points above, he'll find that the character isn't as enjoyable to play, much like your point (A), or the character just doesn't progress and develop in the ways that he imagined it happening, which is a tamer version of (B).

I can't think of anything to do for (A), but (B) might be able to be prevented with better communication between him and the DM's as far as knowing what it is he wants to see happen.

^ And that's why I love anecdotes. They lead to realizing better advice than that which can be given.

[Unbeliever]

I'm glad to have helped.  I was skeptical that my semi-anecdote would help, but I guess it did.  So, umm ... go me, I suppose.

To reiterate the semi-practical advice, I'd say just talk to the man.  Any player worth his salt will readily recognize how it is a giant pain in the ass for an ongoing campaign, provided your campaigns last more than 6 or 7 sessions as it is.  And, maybe these insights will be handy:  this way you can go to him and he might say "yeah, (A) is totally what leads me to create multiple characters" and you can get creative with workarounds or he can just be conscious about it during character creation.

[linklord231]

Huh I never thought of it that way before.

I guess I'm kind of like your player, in that I tend to have so many ideas for cool characters that I don't care if the one I'm currently playing dies because I've got another 6 ideas that I want to play next.  That said, I've never intentionally committed suicide with a character because I was bored of him...  But I may have continued to fight when I should have retreated.  I've never really considered it from the other end; that refusing a Resurrection might disrupt the continuity of the campaign.  Thanks for pointing that out